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On May 17 2016 03:50 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2016 03:47 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 17 2016 00:29 SwiftCrane wrote:
no balance patch in 3 months and counting, a meaningful redesign of LOTV bullshit for more than 6?
I don't understand how anybody could work this slowly.
All you need, is a oerson with a functioning brain, 2 days tops, and access to the internet and prior knowledge of the game and you should be able to at least make a patch that changes SOMETHING for the better.
There's so much shit that just plain doesn't have any place in sc2 like parasitic bomb, mass air being so dominant for all 3 races, tankevac, immortal being tanky AND high damage, warp prism... so much BS ravagers... and WTF tankevacs? MOBILE SIEGE UNIT?! blizz pls stop Uh because the metagame barely started to settle probably a month ago? Starcraft has a delicate metagame, this isn't a MOBA. The only thing you stated that isn't senseless crying is how powerful mass air is, and then you turn around and say Parasitic Bomb (the one singular tool Zerg has to fight against Mass air because Infestors are never getting buffed) has no place in the game lol parasitic bomb may discourage other races from going air but it makes the zerg air deathball far stronger and because broodlords can only be fought with air units the other player is forced to mass air regardless. So parasitic bomb promotes mass air deathballs instead of discouraging it.
Removing PB would also be disastrous. I remember many terrans saying that mobile and aggressive mech would be viable after the SH nerf and that SH were the only reason for turtling with mech. Surprisingly removing the one proper counter to a play style ended in that play style becoming the most popular one. Without PB we would see terrible mass air strategies against Z.
I do think that air units as a rule are to strong. Phoenix dominate the early game against Z, tempest are stupid, liberators are way too good and PB is a band aid to cover for weak corruptors. (not sure about BC´s. Hopefully we will never see them again.)
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Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans.
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I just wish this fool Kim would fucking fix the game rather than spam these interminable "updates".
TY was very clear after the GSL finals. Presumably given he is one of the top 2 Terrans in the world atm, Mr Kim would have had an in-depth debrief with TY about why TY thinks Protoss is op. Did this happen? What did TY say? If Kim disagrees with TY, why does he? Kim isn't even prepared to address what TY has told him - we get some reference to there being a possible issue with Immortals. Nothing about adepts, WP range, MSC preventing all harassment, 4 supply Tempests, difficulty for Terran to scout which bullshit is incoming etc, etc.
Is Kim not surprised that Innovation, one of the best sc2 players of all time, is struggling to get picked for SKT? Why does Kim think this is? Is it because Innovation has stopped practising? Or could there be another reason?
Does Polt not practice anymore? Isn't it a little strange that a guy who dominated the foreign scene for 5 years is suddenly losing to every man and his dog (oh except in TvT where he totally owns)... Perhaps Polt has lost is skills in the other match-ups or had a stroke that only affects games vs P or Z. Or PERHAPS THERE IS A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THE GAME.
User was warned for this post (Balane whine)
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On May 17 2016 05:28 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2016 03:50 Charoisaur wrote:On May 17 2016 03:47 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 17 2016 00:29 SwiftCrane wrote:
no balance patch in 3 months and counting, a meaningful redesign of LOTV bullshit for more than 6?
I don't understand how anybody could work this slowly.
All you need, is a oerson with a functioning brain, 2 days tops, and access to the internet and prior knowledge of the game and you should be able to at least make a patch that changes SOMETHING for the better.
There's so much shit that just plain doesn't have any place in sc2 like parasitic bomb, mass air being so dominant for all 3 races, tankevac, immortal being tanky AND high damage, warp prism... so much BS ravagers... and WTF tankevacs? MOBILE SIEGE UNIT?! blizz pls stop Uh because the metagame barely started to settle probably a month ago? Starcraft has a delicate metagame, this isn't a MOBA. The only thing you stated that isn't senseless crying is how powerful mass air is, and then you turn around and say Parasitic Bomb (the one singular tool Zerg has to fight against Mass air because Infestors are never getting buffed) has no place in the game lol parasitic bomb may discourage other races from going air but it makes the zerg air deathball far stronger and because broodlords can only be fought with air units the other player is forced to mass air regardless. So parasitic bomb promotes mass air deathballs instead of discouraging it. Removing PB would also be disastrous. I remember many terrans saying that mobile and aggressive mech would be viable after the SH nerf and that SH were the only reason for turtling with mech. Surprisingly removing the one proper counter to a play style ended in that play style becoming the most popular one. Without PB we would see terrible mass air strategies against Z. I do think that air units as a rule are to strong. Phoenix dominate the early game against Z, tempest are stupid, liberators are way too good and PB is a band aid to cover for weak corruptors. (not sure about BC´s. Hopefully we will never see them again.)
Yeah but ravens already got heavily nerfed in LotV, liberators are about to be nerfed and tempests absolutely need to be nerfed. With all those changes I'm not sure parasitic bomb is really necessary.
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United States572 Posts
On May 17 2016 05:28 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2016 03:50 Charoisaur wrote:On May 17 2016 03:47 Beelzebub1 wrote:On May 17 2016 00:29 SwiftCrane wrote:
no balance patch in 3 months and counting, a meaningful redesign of LOTV bullshit for more than 6?
I don't understand how anybody could work this slowly.
All you need, is a oerson with a functioning brain, 2 days tops, and access to the internet and prior knowledge of the game and you should be able to at least make a patch that changes SOMETHING for the better.
There's so much shit that just plain doesn't have any place in sc2 like parasitic bomb, mass air being so dominant for all 3 races, tankevac, immortal being tanky AND high damage, warp prism... so much BS ravagers... and WTF tankevacs? MOBILE SIEGE UNIT?! blizz pls stop Uh because the metagame barely started to settle probably a month ago? Starcraft has a delicate metagame, this isn't a MOBA. The only thing you stated that isn't senseless crying is how powerful mass air is, and then you turn around and say Parasitic Bomb (the one singular tool Zerg has to fight against Mass air because Infestors are never getting buffed) has no place in the game lol parasitic bomb may discourage other races from going air but it makes the zerg air deathball far stronger and because broodlords can only be fought with air units the other player is forced to mass air regardless. So parasitic bomb promotes mass air deathballs instead of discouraging it. Removing PB would also be disastrous.
Take your PB logic and apply it to nerfing liberators. Same issue, different race.
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On May 14 2016 04:43 Seeker wrote:
Fix
The
F*ing
Tempest
Please...
I agree. The Tempest could use some retooling. From my experience its a very niche unit that is only viable when the Protoss is already winning the game or on certain spawn locations with close air positions. Overall its a unit that has poor DPS and very slow maneuverability. Two qualities that are not present in any other unit in the game. Its only saving grace being its superior range. However that is easily nullified by simply engaging the Tempests in a direct fight.
The Tempest seems to be a "winmore" unit, designed to take a winning position and build upon it to get even further ahead by sieging the opposition from a distance. While that is useful in games where the opponent is well defended but are contained. It is hardly useful when the playing field is level and the opponent still has that strong defensive position.
Maybe Carriers or Void Rays are the answer for more even games? I am not sure. In theory they would do very well against Lurkers or Liberator positions (more so the Carriers than the Void Rays), but Carriers have the longest build time in the game. and that doesn't even included the fact they only come out with 4 Interceptors.
Why does Protoss have 2 Capital ships while the other races do not? Blizzard already reduced the size of the Tempest. It looks pedestrian compared to its original form in HOTS. I would think it makes sense to reduce its capital ship/massive status. The Fleet Beacon is single handedly the most expensive structure in the game. We should make it pure Stargate tech. That might solve the problem with how inherently expensive it is.
If someone is concerned with scouting. I would like to point out that they can see the unit being produced in the Stargate. Something that does not exist with any other structure. So scouting will not be an issue.
Lastly I would like to point out The Tempests counter each other due to their MASSIVE status. How stupid does it seem that best counter to a unit is itself? In PvP I hate the idea that the ultimate late game army composition is infact a Tempest war....
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On May 17 2016 08:27 terrantosaur wrote:
I just wish this fool Kim would fucking fix the game rather than spam these interminable "updates".
TY was very clear after the GSL finals. Presumably given he is one of the top 2 Terrans in the world atm, Mr Kim would have had an in-depth debrief with TY about why TY thinks Protoss is op. Did this happen? What did TY say? If Kim disagrees with TY, why does he? Kim isn't even prepared to address what TY has told him - we get some reference to there being a possible issue with Immortals. Nothing about adepts, WP range, MSC preventing all harassment, 4 supply Tempests, difficulty for Terran to scout which bullshit is incoming etc, etc.
Is Kim not surprised that Innovation, one of the best sc2 players of all time, is struggling to get picked for SKT? Why does Kim think this is? Is it because Innovation has stopped practising? Or could there be another reason?
Does Polt not practice anymore? Isn't it a little strange that a guy who dominated the foreign scene for 5 years is suddenly losing to every man and his dog (oh except in TvT where he totally owns)... Perhaps Polt has lost is skills in the other match-ups or had a stroke that only affects games vs P or Z. Or PERHAPS THERE IS A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THE GAME.
User was warned for this post (Balane whine)
Are you implying Terran is underpowered? Terran? Arguably the most well rounded and abusable race in the game....
And you think Terran is having a problems winning? LOL Only you man....only you.
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Just thought about this watching showtime vs nerchio, but it'd be nice it PO wasn't able to target buildings. This way you'd stop the ridiculous "2pylons on your choke overcharge lol" in TvP.
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On May 17 2016 10:30 Sweetness.751 wrote:
Lastly I would like to point out The Tempests counter each other due to their MASSIVE status. How stupid does it seem that best counter to a unit is itself? In PvP I hate the idea that the ultimate late game army composition is infact a Tempest war....
Units cannot counter themselves *facepalm*
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On May 17 2016 10:52 Sweetness.751 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2016 08:27 terrantosaur wrote:
I just wish this fool Kim would fucking fix the game rather than spam these interminable "updates".
TY was very clear after the GSL finals. Presumably given he is one of the top 2 Terrans in the world atm, Mr Kim would have had an in-depth debrief with TY about why TY thinks Protoss is op. Did this happen? What did TY say? If Kim disagrees with TY, why does he? Kim isn't even prepared to address what TY has told him - we get some reference to there being a possible issue with Immortals. Nothing about adepts, WP range, MSC preventing all harassment, 4 supply Tempests, difficulty for Terran to scout which bullshit is incoming etc, etc.
Is Kim not surprised that Innovation, one of the best sc2 players of all time, is struggling to get picked for SKT? Why does Kim think this is? Is it because Innovation has stopped practising? Or could there be another reason?
Does Polt not practice anymore? Isn't it a little strange that a guy who dominated the foreign scene for 5 years is suddenly losing to every man and his dog (oh except in TvT where he totally owns)... Perhaps Polt has lost is skills in the other match-ups or had a stroke that only affects games vs P or Z. Or PERHAPS THERE IS A FUCKING PROBLEM WITH THE GAME.
User was warned for this post (Balane whine) Are you implying Terran is underpowered? Terran? Arguably the most well rounded and abusable race in the game.... And you think Terran is having a problems winning? LOL Only you man....only you.
Eh..No. Terran is far from being well rounded. Otherwise we wouldn´t see Bio for 6 years in 90% of the games from a race that normally has access to two unique playstyles, one of them being constantly denied from the community and the dev team alike. Maybe not underpowered but not well rounded either.
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On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans.
If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily. 
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On May 18 2016 08:20 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans. If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily.
It could defend everything so "easily" (debatable) because terran usually turtled behind walls of turrets and pfs.
A fight on open field with ground mech was pretty much suicide.
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On May 18 2016 11:41 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 08:20 Vanadiel wrote:On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans. If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily. It could defend everything so "easily" (debatable) because terran usually turtled behind walls of turrets and pfs. A fight on open field with ground mech was pretty much suicide.
So a stronger mech ground army would have prevented that? What is your suggestion? Nerfing turrets and PF?
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Goody has started streaming again and he plays what i would consider true mech. He is so damn good he makes it look like BW. TvP looks impossible though.
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On May 18 2016 17:02 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 11:41 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 08:20 Vanadiel wrote:On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans. If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily. It could defend everything so "easily" (debatable) because terran usually turtled behind walls of turrets and pfs. A fight on open field with ground mech was pretty much suicide. So a stronger mech ground army would have prevented that? What is your suggestion? Nerfing turrets and PF?
Stronger ground mech but much harder air transition would force mech to be active on the map to limit zerg economy to avoid being killed by broodlords
But yeah, it's so much better to have terrans forced into reaper expand => bio tankivacs or bio mines => bio liberators every single game. Diversity, fuck yeah !
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On May 18 2016 20:06 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 17:02 Vanadiel wrote:On May 18 2016 11:41 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 08:20 Vanadiel wrote:On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans. If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily. It could defend everything so "easily" (debatable) because terran usually turtled behind walls of turrets and pfs. A fight on open field with ground mech was pretty much suicide. So a stronger mech ground army would have prevented that? What is your suggestion? Nerfing turrets and PF? Stronger ground mech but much harder air transition would force mech to be active on the map to limit zerg economy to avoid being killed by broodlords
agreed
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On May 18 2016 20:06 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2016 17:02 Vanadiel wrote:On May 18 2016 11:41 Charoisaur wrote:On May 18 2016 08:20 Vanadiel wrote:On May 17 2016 06:31 JackONeill wrote:
Actually if terran played turtly in late HOTS TvZ mech, it was because ground mech sucked so hard, and that sky terran was so OP. TvZ were about terran securing a third with mass tank viking, defend the roach/hydra viper go, and then switch to air. But you could not move out, until having 6 BCs, which was stupid.
PB as you very rightly said is a stupid band aid. I'd much rather like to remove the PB, and make the SH a spellcaster that can summon scourges like the infestor spawns infested terrans. If ground mech sucked so hard, it wouldn't have defended everything so easily. It could defend everything so "easily" (debatable) because terran usually turtled behind walls of turrets and pfs. A fight on open field with ground mech was pretty much suicide. So a stronger mech ground army would have prevented that? What is your suggestion? Nerfing turrets and PF? Stronger ground mech but much harder air transition would force mech to be active on the map to limit zerg economy to avoid being killed by broodlords But yeah, it's so much better to have terrans forced into reaper expand => bio tankivacs or bio mines => bio liberators every single game. Diversity, fuck yeah !
But stronger ground mech would make air transition easier at the same time because you'll have a better defensive position, so even if you make the air transition more difficult, if you buff the ground you'll even it out. At the very best, which is still unlikely imo, you'll find the sweet spot where mech game solely rely on a pre-Hive timing attack. No matter how you look at it, by design tanks as they are in Starcraft 2 will always be better for turtling than for attacking, that's why in my opinion tankivacs is a good addition to the game because it allows tanks to move out on the map without allowing turtle play.
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On May 16 2016 22:28 LSN wrote:
Very nice post Jack.
The game is no fun mostly. I can be fun for some time ofc.
When ppl ask me about SC2 I have to tell them that they are better off with their time with just playing some CS:GO or mobas and you need a very high frustration threshold for SC2 - even tho it is way easier than BW.
If the game was fun, why would players like grubby, hasuobs, all the koreans and many more turn their back to it and play other games on their streams?
I myself haven't had the motivation to play my bonus pool to zero in any season within 5 years of time. Not a single time. When I play the game for some weeks I need 4x as time break after.
When I watch TakeTV I see Naruto being frustrated about the game all the way. He even talks about playing CS:GO.
When I watch nate playing on stream, he is so much frustrated about the game that he cant even hold it back (and I honestly watched about 30-60 minutes of him max in total).
When I see big tournament casts I see that casters for their own and the games benefit hold back with their true opinions.
Guys, I don't care if you like me or hate me. Also there is no other game to ever come close to SC/SC2 RTS. We got one chance to have a decently playable RTS for the next couple of years, and that is that blizzard gets these things right.
We might want to forget about all the balance hatred here in forums and help together to make SC2 the game it should and very well could be.
One problem about this however is that there are too many voices for DK & Blizzard, I assume and I know.
One issue there is, is that every kid of age 18 who reached GM by training how to be the most abusive in ladders values their own opinion higher than anyone else.
Another issue is that korean pro feedback might be race biased as well. Ppl. who earn money with playing SC2 or plan to do so have a legitimate reason to talk for their own race and where they put time and effort in.
These things are obstacles for DK and Blizzard to have good decisionmaking. They want to satisfy everyone. However they can't. They don't know which voices to listen to.
Now that is something that we as a community have to get under control first. Best players not necessarily or even not at all make best game designers. I know that huge parts of the community believe this tho.
Life is a matter of focus and priorities. I believe that someone who has picked his focus to be to become the best player on earth cannot at the same time be the best game designer on earth, because it required a shift in priorities which the individual has obviously chosen not to do.
Of course there are exceptions and multitalents but these will be the rarities, and I don't want to blame anyone. However Broodwar wasn't designed by progamers. From what I know mapmakers who many ppl rightfully claim to have balanced broodwar were not the top notch players but ppl. who tried to figure out every single detail about what is important for mapping and focused mainly on that.
I am trying to be constructive here and figure out sources of failure first as any common business would do that. And with that much amount of failure that has found its way into SC2 after broodwar was the perfect way, I think it is a good idea to do that first.
If you once again make a statement of what I seemingly said to make a strong point which I would never agree on I will make sure that you will never post again here. To clarify for anyone. I believe Legacy of the Void is a great game and huge step in the right direction of Broodwar - more dynamic and a lot more but thats not really the point I want to adress here.
I simply don't play myself because I am very eager to be good. I was never good putting little time into the game but always had to grind and I simply do not want to put that kind of time into Starcraft currently as I do a hell lot of casting as well. Besides that I talked that I played CSGO which is a fantastic eSport title and simply fun to play with friends - a game which doesnt require me to play thousands of hours to feel "good".
So no - I would never go as far as LSN with his shit balance posts. So be warned LSN.
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EPT
