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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
as we're seeing Protoss learn JUST learning to play on maps like Prion and Ulrena Protoss has always been doing fairly good on Ulrena and getting trolleyed on Prion. Winrates in the last month are worse than 3 months ago, so i don't see the "just learning to play on" part. | ||
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RedAlice
51 Posts
On April 09 2016 09:46 Cyro wrote: Protoss has always been doing fairly good on Ulrena and getting trolleyed on Prion. Winrates in the last month are worse than 3 months ago, so i don't see the "just learning to play on" part. I think that's cuz protoss players are forced to play Prion now since PvZ on KCL is simply another lose. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
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Comedy
466 Posts
He literally never references games that were played in tournaments. Or mentions unit interactions that we saw in tournament games. Hell he never even describes a situation in game where you're like 'Yeah, David, I saw that too we have to keep an eye on that'! On the contrary, the community updates completly blow my mind. These changes are quite far off from what the game needs in my opinion. - Overlord drops are actually fun to use - make for fun gameplay. Nerfing this as opposed to the ravager is a poor choice, the ravager is a very bland unit that lends itself well to an A-move playstyle. - Nerfing the liberator and buffing the banshee. 2 Completely different units, and to easily upgrade an invisible unit to be the fastest unit in the game is just ridiculous. But hell, we have the medivac tanks so can we really be surprised anymore? I can't believe what Starcraft has come to in 2016. Biggest current issues are zerg allins being too strong (maybe mostly related to bad maps atm). Mass immortals being too good mid game for any Zerg ground composition & Protoss late game air army being untoucheale in both matchups, PvT and PvZ. None of this is talked about, at all. Dunno if David Kim is even aware of the actual problems w/ his game. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Nerfing this as opposed to the ravager is a poor choice, the ravager is a very bland unit that lends itself well to an A-move playstyle. Ravager is used a lot in ZvT which is roughly balanced if not mildly terran focused Drop affects P earlygame (like pre-warpgate timings) but is rarely if ever used to kill terran at those timings The Z change isn't targetted at nerfing zerg, it's about making the first 3-5 minutes of PvZ more stable and map independant | ||
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redloser
Korea (South)1740 Posts
And for the maps, I think they should have a majority of 'good maps' in the map pool, with 2 experimental maps so we can veto strategically. | ||
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redloser
Korea (South)1740 Posts
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Comedy
466 Posts
On April 09 2016 10:17 Cyro wrote: Ravager is used a lot in ZvT which is roughly balanced if not mildly terran focused Drop affects P earlygame (like pre-warpgate timings) but is rarely if ever used to kill terran at those timings The Z change isn't targetted at nerfing zerg, it's about making the first 3-5 minutes of PvZ more stable and map independant That doesn't matter. Drops are fun to use and gives satisfaction when playing. If ZvT is terran favored then maybe change something about ZvT, but dont make the game less fun overall just to achieve balance? You end up with a balanced game that noone thinks is fun to play at all. Whats the point of that? | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
These changes are ludicrous, so instead of buffing Protoss early game to be more stable against Zerg we just take away yet another offensive option from the game? So back to Zerg being passive against Protoss when mass Immortal is unbeatable on the ground atm it rolls Lurkers and any Roach based composition. I thought Zerg was finally going to get to go on the offense in this expansion, guess I was wrong. So instead of nerfing awful units like Kog'Maw we just nerf things that actually promote multitasking? David seems out of synch with his own game, been like this for awhile, units like the Swarm Host, Cyclone and Colossus are untouchable and the same exact units keep getting talked about in every single balance update with nothing actually happening. Still no word on tanks or tankivac changes Still no word on Ultralisks being hilarious OP against Terran Still no word on lategame air Protoss armies which are nigh unkillable Still unused units in the game that could help fill various holes in each race easily (Nerf immortal for Colossus buffs? Nerf Liberators and buff tanks? Nerf Ultralisks and buff Swarm Hosts?) Hell one of the unused units is from the latest expansion, no way you can phrase that any other way then bad. Still no vision from the balance team, I had hope when they were talking about concrete tank changes but these updates are a gigantic step back and completely unproductive, 75% of the update is telling us why they really like certain maps and they really don't like others, hard not to come off as critical really.. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
That doesn't matter. Drops are fun to use and gives satisfaction when playing. Getting satisfaction from killing people at 3:00 - 4:30 in the game doesn't neccesarily make it fair. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On April 09 2016 02:27 MockHamill wrote: Korhal Carnage Knockout - Remove the Rock Towers at main base locations - Reduce the main base ramps to the smallest size Noooooo, that's going to make moving around the outside of the map so frustrating especially if you break down your backrocks and trying to move your entire army around. At least make it a double wide ramp with a small rock or two at the top (think bridgehead) so you can still easily depot/rax/depot wall it. I'm fine with removing the rock towers at the main ramps, although I think that plays a very interesting dynamic as well. Honestly if Blizzard changes the map, do the double wide with 2 small rock towers at top and just move the natural closer to the main ramp so it's easier to take. That or make one of the "rock towers" at the natural entrance already down so you only have to wall off one side of the entrance for a full block. Removing all the rock towers at the main & making it a tiny single wide ramp will ruin it. /cry. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
the red lines are not chokes. the fourth bases are completely open. moreover the attacker can use the highground to create pressure + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qARDLEy.jpg) | ||
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breaker1328
Canada298 Posts
Invader - Remove the “bridge” areas next to the third to help horizontal spawn positions. Just. Use. Invader 2.0 That map is so Z favored it's ridiculous. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On April 09 2016 09:04 Vandroiy wrote: My problem with trying to diversify strategies by creating new "experimental" maps is that, in the end, it will force people to use specific strategies for those maps, thus limiting players options. Playing the exact same game every time on a map is neither interesting to watch nor play. Exactly!!! Really upsets me how they always try to find the easy way out, and never actually addressing the true problems with the game. They try to add variety through map styles, rather than doing their job and giving players variety in the actual gameplay. Makes no damn sense that they design the matchups to use very specific unit compositions, and then due to backing themselves in to a corner with their unit balance, the only way they can add variety is through maps. Pretty sure they are never going to actually fix the issues of the game... And considering all the various ways they back themselves in to a corner... anything they do now is inevitably disappointing. Unless they finally try to tackle the design issues... But again, apparently that's probably not going to happen. | ||
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CheddarToss
534 Posts
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
On April 09 2016 13:13 CheddarToss wrote: Can't wait for the Liberator nerf. Same. As a terran player, I've always wondered how it would be like to play the other races. Now blizzard is forcing me to learn! They truly understand what the community needs! | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
generated maps in total? | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
That would nerf the TVP match up too much and that would buff the ZVP too much ( I am talking from the Terran point of view ) | ||
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