EPTA Change to the Oracle - Page 7
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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Extenz
Italy822 Posts
On March 14 2016 20:26 Vanadiel wrote: I like this change, although I am a little bit disappointed in the sense that I expected a post proposing a nerf to revelation. Honestly, I feel that it's too strong at the moment, the low cost / high duration / high range / large AOE make that you can have continually vision on your opponent army even to invisible units without any risk to the oracle. If you nerf revelation you must buff the obs or protoss relies on a paper unit that can be sniped all day vs ghosts and lurkers. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On March 14 2016 20:26 Vanadiel wrote: I like this change, although I am a little bit disappointed in the sense that I expected a post proposing a nerf to revelation. Honestly, I feel that it's too strong at the moment, the low cost / high duration / high range / large AOE make that you can have continually vision on your opponent army even to invisible units without any risk to the oracle. What you're describing sounds an awful lot like scanning with orbitals | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
On March 14 2016 17:21 Salteador Neo wrote: While I loved the idea at first... Are we even sure this would end the phoenix wars? The counter to the phoenix still seems to be to have more phoenixes (or archons ofc). Flattening the stalker AA damage to 14 does the exact same thing (a nerf to oracles in PvP), but also helps stalkers vs phoenix (so it might end the phoenix wars) and vs mutas. It sounds like a plain better solution. As suggested in the other thread this would probably solve a lot of problems with the dreaded mass-muta switches pvz, but alongside all the other issues as well. Thinking about it this seems like an elegant solution to several issues at once. | ||
Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
I don't understand people that claim koreans don't seem to share this "problem", I see tons of stargate openings in PvP. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On March 14 2016 21:39 Extenz wrote: If you nerf revelation you must buff the obs or protoss relies on a paper unit that can be sniped all day vs ghosts and lurkers. I don't disagree with that, of course protoss is not too strong at the moment and revelation is an important tool in the late game, so if nerfed other tools would be needed. maybe a bigger range of the observer and a speed buff so it can stay behind and thus safer while detecting cloacked/burrow army. To answer Fig, I don't really understand the comparaison with scans. The comparaison would be valid only if scan lasted 43 secondes instead of 9, and followed the scanned army during that length of time. Revelation is 9 range + radius of 6 so there is not a single unit in Zerg arsenal that can deny an oracle to continuously tag an army, and for terran in practice even the 9 range viking can not deny it due to the large radius of the spell and the fact that the oracle is fast enough to avoid the shot of the viking. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
corruptors, vikings and other AA units deal extra damage vs armored. Youre proposing a change to affect early game PvP timings and builds in a very minor way. The second major use of the oracle is in lategame situations to cast Revelation. This change will cause your oracle to die more easily in those situations - and personally I feel Protoss needs lategame love anyway. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
To avoid derailing the thread, I'll just respond to you in PM Vanadiel. | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On March 14 2016 22:44 weikor wrote: This feels like an overall nerf to protoss vs other races. corruptors, vikings and other AA units deal extra damage vs armored. Youre proposing a change to affect early game PvP timings and builds in a very minor way. The second major use of the oracle is in lategame situations to cast Revelation. This change will cause your oracle to die more easily in those situations - and personally I feel Protoss needs lategame love anyway. Protoss is still fine late game if they get there. But more importantly, the nerf to the oracle against Zerg and Terran is barely noticeable anyway due to the oracle's speed, no AA unit that does bonus damage to armored can reliably kill the oracle, unless the Protoss fucks up (or it gets grabbed by vipers in which case it's dead no matter the tag). | ||
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TwiggyWan
France334 Posts
On March 14 2016 02:56 MorroW wrote: tell that to the Ghost thats not light and the Ravager thats not armored. i agree that "lore" (for the lack of better term) is important but sometimes its important for game design to go against it. call me dumb but i actually do think the oracle looks armored, and i thought it was armored for years before i was protoss Yeah, ghost, hellbat, ravager, it surely won't be the only unit to have a rather deceiving look. As I said, I don't think your gameplay change is bad at all  | ||
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Shapelog
United States5186 Posts
On March 14 2016 19:51 GerichRail wrote: I ALSO THINK NEED CHANGE COLLOS SUPPLY TO 5 AND DISRUTPOR TO 4 , TO PREVENT MASSING OF DISRUPTORS AND BACK COLLOSI IN SOME GAME_SITUATIONS Dts should also replace the zealot. 100 mins for a invisible soldier at the 2 min mark that can 1 shot everything at the point would be great. Stops them from having the money to even build a stargate. Ez fix. We also should make the lurker be able to move underground at the speed of a upgraded bashee and make stim Give health instead of taking it. Oh and make BC's have nukes! | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On March 14 2016 23:46 TwiggyWan wrote: Yeah, ghost, hellbat, ravager, it surely won't be the only unit to have a rather deceiving look. As I said, I don't think your gameplay change is bad at all For the record, ravagers not being armored kinda makes sense if you think about it. As roaches they're very compact and highly armored inside of their durable shell. When they become ravagers the shell cracks open in exchange for more firepower, so they lose some armor. | ||
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Jonsoload
Germany62 Posts
I really don't think the proposed change is necessary. If anything, Phoenix openers in PvP rather show how shitty the tools are that Protoss has in the ground-to-air department. This is the same with deflecting Mutas in PvZ. I rather have Blizzard look at the ground options Protoss have to combat Phoenix/ Muta in PvP/PvZ, rather than introduce a change which, for all tense purposes, could produce nothing useful | ||
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Elentos
55561 Posts
On March 15 2016 00:48 Jonsoload wrote: Noone said anything about Vikings as a counter measure, where they would have an increased damage output against Oracles by 40%. Because of the speed difference vikings aren't a good counter to oracles even with this change. Maybe they could deflect them, but 6 marines also deflect an oracle, and you actually want those. | ||
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Adreaver
26 Posts
On March 14 2016 02:48 thePunGun wrote: As much as I wanna believe this, it can't be that easy. Every change comes with a price and just saying there is none won't make it true... Speaking as a Terran, switching Oracle from Light to Armored changes nothing about the matchup for me. Marines and Missile Turrets do the same damage vs Light and Armored, and are what you use to defend early Oracle harass. Midgame and further, you have either Vikings, Liberators, and Cyclones to zone out/kill Oracles. Vikings would gain bonus damage but are slow, so not super relevant. Also, I generally don't see Oracles past the early game unless they pop by to drop a revelation on my army and zip away again. Can't speak to ZvP as I don't play Zerg, but it's a complete non-issue for Terran. | ||
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Adreaver
26 Posts
On March 14 2016 21:52 Fig wrote: What you're describing sounds an awful lot like scanning with orbitals Orbital scans are restricted to the area scanned, are much shorter than revelation, and have an economic cost (every scan is one less MULE). If you had to Chrono Boost the Oracle to use and maintain Revelation then I could see a fair comparison, otherwise its apples:oranges. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17183 Posts
will any one at platinum or lower even notice this change? if so many high level players like it.. and platinum and below can't tell the difference... i say "stick it in a PTR and test it out Mr. Kim." | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4033 Posts
On March 14 2016 02:48 TwiggyWan wrote: The change would probably be good but visually the unit does not look armored at all... Good point! However, we have shooting pylons (!!!), so who cares now. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
On March 15 2016 00:27 Shapelog wrote: Dts should also replace the zealot. 100 mins for a invisible soldier at the 2 min mark that can 1 shot everything at the point would be great. Stops them from having the money to even build a stargate. Ez fix. We also should make the lurker be able to move underground at the speed of a upgraded bashee and make stim Give health instead of taking it. Oh and make BC's have nukes! Seriously, BC's should have nukes | ||
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Hanfy
Germany15 Posts
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