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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
It's all about team games now. The solution to make RTS popular again is build your entire game loop around the idea that 2 teams of more than 1 person are playing, not just 2 people. Edit: Oh, Hearthstone is 1v1. Not sure if people see that game as competitive though. It seems very P2W. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On May 23 2017 00:53 ZenithM wrote: Fundamentally I think 1v1 is the thing that is becoming niche. ya, that's a really good point. back in 1995 when RTS was growing a lot it was not easy to voice chat with your allies and it was hard to get low latency team games going. 1v1 was really your only viable option. With Voice and a 3+ player team gaming is a lot more fun for your average person who wants a social as well as action-oriented experience. 4 player co-op in games like Borderlands is also a big thing... and that was pretty impossible years ago. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19231 Posts
On May 23 2017 01:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its possible we'll get a mobile game similar to "Clash of Clans" using the Starcraft IP. ATVI really wants to dive head first into mobile. ya, that's a really good point. back in 1995 it was not easy to voice chat with your allies and it was hard to get low latency team games going. With Voice and a 3+ player team gaming is a lot more fun for your average person who wants a social as well as action-oriented experience. 4 player co-op in games like Borderlands is also a big thing. I was really hoping archon mode would become a bigger thing. I think it'd be amazing to see an RTS where 4-5 player teams can play against each other in 4v4/5v5 matches. An aspect where MOBAs intrigue me is the fact that you can cheer for multiple players at the same time and the team aspect really adds another fascinating element. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On May 23 2017 01:19 BisuDagger wrote: I was really hoping archon mode would become a bigger thing. I think it'd be amazing to see an RTS where 4-5 player teams can play against each other in 4v4/5v5 matches. An aspect where MOBAs intrigue me is the fact that you can cheer for multiple players at the same time and the team aspect really adds another fascinating element. i have several friends who've been playing Brood War and then SC2 2v2s off-and-on for 15+ years. they didn't play 5 minutes of Archon mode. it was a good try by Blizzard. they deserve a lot of credit for trying to make it work. as soon as i realized every single one of these 2v2 veterans were not touching it ... i figured it was doomed.  | ||
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Aron Times
United States312 Posts
Games like DotA 2 have a low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling. People in here who claim that MOBAs are easy either don't play these games or just want to feel smug about playing Starcraft. If MOBAs were that easy and Starcraft players like us are truly superior, then why don't Starcraft pros win the International? Or any of the Majors? Or lesser tournaments? DotA 2 proves that you can have an easy and accessible game and still allow for skill differentiation to satisfy competitive players. Who cares if you have perfect micro and macro in Starcraft 1 and/or 2 if no one is around to appreciate it? | ||
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Aron Times
United States312 Posts
On May 23 2017 01:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i have several friends who've been playing Brood War and then SC2 2v2s off-and-on for 15+ years. they didn't play 5 minutes of Archon mode. it was a good try by Blizzard. they deserve a lot of credit for trying to make it work. as soon as i realized every single one of these 2v2 veterans were not touching it ... i figured it was doomed. Archon Mode was stupid. Almost no one I knew back in the day seriously played Team Melee. We only played it so we'd have access to all three races' tech trees (1v1) or two (2v2 or 4-player FFA). Almost everyone I knew back in my Starcraft 1 days preferred team games. Large team games like 4v4, or 2v2 if they preferred a more competitive game. I can remember exactly one guy who liked playing against Koreans on Battle.net, and preferred 1v1 play. It's really just another example of Blizzard being oblivious to their playerbase's wishes and pandering to the esports crowd. | ||
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Suchbalancemuchwow
76 Posts
On May 23 2017 00:55 Wildmoon wrote: If WC4 ever comes out I assure you it won't be in the form of RTS we have come to know and love. Blizzard will have to adjust it to fit the trend of gaming whether for better or worse. They are extremely successful lately with Overwatch and Hearthstone so who knows. They will absolutely max out their next game on sex appeal, mark my words. It's a big reason why Overwatch is such a success. Honestly the more I think about it, a lot of the new popular games are all about sex appeal. . Lets hope they fix one of their past mistakes though, actual good writing. Or in Blizzard's case it might be for the best to go with no writing at all. All their recent games didn't have an ounce of a story after all. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On May 23 2017 00:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: you are clinging to a MAYBE from 1 company when 15 years ago lots of companies were putting their best talent onto an RTS project. if Morhaime put his best talent on an RTS game he'd get fired tomorrow. His best talent is devoted to projects that actually, you know, make money. Like Destiny2.  i'm 100% happy with SC2. Its a great game. But, i'm also realistic as to the profits it and other RTS games can generate. Morhaime is the president of blizzard, and has absolutely nothing to do with bungie games. I can't believe I just read that, actually. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:16 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: They will absolutely max out their next game on sex appeal, mark my words. It's a big reason why Overwatch is such a success. Honestly the more I think about it, a lot of the new popular games are all about sex appeal. . Lets hope they fix one of their past mistakes though, actual good writing. Or in Blizzard's case it might be for the best to go with no writing at all. All their recent games didn't have an ounce of a story after all. Games can never be successes in the long run having sex appeal as a big reason for its success. Overwatch has already passed that point. The game does not have "sex appeal" anymore than something like Streetfighter or all Moba out there. Overwatch is a good game that ticks most if not all the boxes that people are looking for in this type of FPS. It's that simple. It's silly to even think that Overwatch is a success because it has high sex appeal. If making a popular game is that easy then many games will be competing with Overwatch right now. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:29 Wildmoon wrote: Games can never be successes in the long run having sex appeal as a big reason for its success. Overwatch has already passed that point. The game does not have "sex appeal" anymore than something like Streetfighter or all Moba out there. Overwatch is a good game that ticks most if not all the boxes that people are looking for in this type of FPS. It's that simple. It's silly to even think that Overwatch is a success because it has high sex appeal. If making a popular game is that easy then many games will be competing with Overwatch right now. Really, if anyone thinks games are successful due to sex appeal, they all need to go look at games coming out of Asia, because almost none of them are a worldwide success, and all of them are sexualized to an extreme. | ||
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Suchbalancemuchwow
76 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:29 Wildmoon wrote: Games can never be successes in the long run having sex appeal as a big reason for its success. Overwatch has already passed that point. The game does not have "sex appeal" anymore than something like Streetfighter or all Moba out there. Overwatch is a good game that ticks most if not all the boxes that people are looking for in this type of FPS. It's that simple. It's silly to even think that Overwatch is a success because it has high sex appeal. If making a popular game is that easy then many games will be competing with Overwatch right now. I didn't say it was the only factor right? I said it was a big factor. People jumped on the Overwatch bandwagon because of the Blizzard hype and because of how it looked. It's hardly silly in my opinion to say that the initial popularity garnered by the people that bought the game on release, due to yes, even sex appeal, caused the current popularity. And for Blizzard it's pretty easy to make a popular game, due to their current reputation. Even bad games like diablo 3 at release sold like hotcakes. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:26 InfCereal wrote: Morhaime is the president of blizzard, and has absolutely nothing to do with bungie games. I can't believe I just read that, actually. what you should do is thank me for teaching you something. rather than scoffing at my comment. On May 23 2017 02:00 Eternal Dalek wrote: It's really just another example of Blizzard being oblivious to their playerbase's wishes and pandering to the esports crowd. because the playerbase is so diverse 1 subsection of the playerbase may feel as though Blizzard is being oblivious when they're catering to a different subculture within the same player base. that is why you feel that why and why you use the language "just another example". Blizzard knows how to appeal to its player base which is why its games outlast the vast majority of other games that are released in the same month. How is Battleborn doing compared to Overwatch? How about C&C4 compared to SC2? | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:42 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote: I didn't say it was the only factor right? I said it was a big factor. People jumped on the Overwatch bandwagon because of the Blizzard hype and because of how it looked. It's hardly silly in my opinion to say that the initial popularity garnered by the people that bought the game on release, due to yes, even sex appeal, caused the current popularity. And for Blizzard it's pretty easy to make a popular game, due to their current reputation. Even bad games like diablo 3 at release sold like hotcakes. It's not even a big reason. Not bigger than Chun Li as a big reason for Streetfighter's success Comparing Overwatch to D3 in terms of popularity is also silly because the former is a sustaining success while the latter just sold well initially but quickly declined afterward with a lot of criticism. The look of the game obviously is top notch. It's one of Blizzard's strong points. It's just not specifically "sex appeal". No one wants to make a game that looks bad on purpose. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:54 Wildmoon wrote: It's not even a big reason. Not bigger than Chun Li as a big reason for Streetfighter's success Comparing Overwatch to D3 in terms of popularity is also silly because the former is a sustaining success while the latter just sold well initially but quickly declined afterward with a lot of criticism. incorrect, 75% of D3 sales occurred after the game was 6 months old. Overwatch has only been out 1 year. D3 is the sustained success. Overwatch probably will be as well but its not 100% certain yet. A big part of D3's sustained success was the Reaper of Souls Expansion pack. Yet another example of Blizzard making a game great with its expansion pack release. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
what you should do is thank me for teaching you something. rather than scoffing at my comment. Blizzard's development teams and developement teams under Activition work as separate entities. It's something no one can lie about. The information is out there. They are hosting Destiny 2 on battle.net. Their developers did not develop the game. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote: incorrect, 75% of D3 sales occurred after the game was 6 months old. Overwatch has only been out 1 year. D3 is the sustained success. Overwatch probably will be as well but its not 100% certain yet. D3 is not a sustained sucess. The game has already lost its steam. D3 also released on console much later than PC which contributed to higher sale after 6 months. Overwatch released on all platform simulteneously. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16694 Posts
On May 23 2017 02:57 Wildmoon wrote: Blizzard's development teams and developement teams under Activition work as separate entities. It's something no one can lie about. The information is out there. They are hosting Destiny 2 on battle.net. Their developers did not develop the game. do not drop the context. i am not discussing Blizzard's developers. you added that. i did not. nor did the other poster. this is the quote from the otehr poster: "Morhaime is the president of blizzard, and has absolutely nothing to do with bungie games." his comment is incorrect. end of story. just the fact that Morhaime had to prepare a speech, memorize lines, and make a public appearance is indicative of resource allocation to Destiny2. Blizzard has committed their limited resources to Destiny2. With Mike Morhaime being their #1 most limited resource because he only has so much time in the week. The only way Morhaime will vouch for Destiny2 is if he has performed due diligence beforehand. Again, more limited resources allocated to Destiny2. Morhaime performs due diligence in order to protect his brand and the consumer perception of Battle.Net/Blizzard.net. If you do not think Morhaime goes to huge lengths to protect his brand then i guess you were not around when Blizzard canceled SC:Ghost and Titan after years in development. All in the name of protecting their brand and image. Pretty hilarious how Mike called it Battle.Net like 5 times. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On May 23 2017 03:02 JimmyJRaynor wrote: do not drop the context. i am not discussing Blizzard's developers. you added that. i did not. nor did the other poster. this is the quote from the otehr poster: "Morhaime is the president of blizzard, and has absolutely nothing to do with bungie games." his comment is incorrect. end of story. just the fact that Morhaime had to prepare a speech, memorize lines, and make a public appearance is indicative of resource allocation to Destiny2. Blizzard has committed their limited resources to Destiny2. With Mike Morhaime being their #1 most limited resource because he only has so much time in the week. He had enough time to go watch SC2 matches in Korea and bought people pizzas. | ||
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