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There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered.
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On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered.
I agree with Cyclone, but the design of the units iself is... I means, if it was strong the game might look pretty ridiculous. As for tempest, I think they are not problematic by themselves, but because revalation of the oracle is just too much strong: range, duration, energy cost, it's just way too good.
Are Nyddus really problematic? Honestly I can't think of a lot of games in which they were broken.
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On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered.
Nydus is more counterable then liberators so not sure why you put it there?
Also SH are way more useless then Thors.
Obvious Terran bias here.
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OHHH NO!
They considering keeping the Tankivacs!
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On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered.
I agree and i'll add another one to the list.
Oracle
Why does the stasis ward not expire? the only spell in the game that last forever.
Viper
Why cant we dodge the parasitic bomb and why does it stack.
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On February 28 2016 22:30 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. Nydus is more counterable then liberators so not sure why you put it there? Also SH are way more useless then Thors. Obvious Terran bias here.
Oh right, forgot Swarm Host. I actually have NEVER seen Swarm Host played in LotV.
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On February 29 2016 00:15 SiaBBo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 22:30 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. Nydus is more counterable then liberators so not sure why you put it there? Also SH are way more useless then Thors. Obvious Terran bias here. Oh right, forgot Swarm Host. I actually have NEVER seen Swarm Host played in LotV.
Blizzards greatest act of "balancing" a unit :D :D
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
I've seen swarm hosts more often than colossus (PvZ, PvP)
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This is so refreshing.
I'm really happy that Blizz came to their senses on the Tankivac (thanks pro KR scene).
You can't eliminate a mechanic that is 100% necessary in at least 1 non mirror MU to "fix" a mirror match-up.
Imagine code S TvZ if they patched this lol - would be a complete ravager shit show.
Not to mention TvT would become a ridiculous bore-fest (50 min tvt turtle mech games).
Honestly with TvT I don't think Tankivac is a problem - it makes the game faster and more exciting.
The one thing I'd like to see them look at for TvT is reapers.
2 and 3 rax reaper builds absolutely dominate the ladder at high masters in GM MMR.
It makes it so that you really can't safely reaper expo if you don't want to just GG out vs those builds.
I don't know what the fix would be - but I think you'd get way more positive feedback from KR on something like that vs. changing something that is instrumental in non-mirror matchups for holding all ins.
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I saw an idea on Tankivacs that I thought might be interesting:
How about, that when Medivacs pick up Siege Tanks, they lose a bit of their mobility?
We can start with say, Medivacs unable to use their boosters when loaded with a Siege Tank in siege mode.
Or maybe reduce their base speed when loaded with Siege Tank.
I think it makes sense design wise, and it also makes balancing easier, cuz movement speed can be tweaked, whereas removing it altogether is really black and white.
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There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered.
Going back to mech discussion. Imo mech lacks a support unit, which could well be found in the cyclone. Could it be desirable for it to have a slowing effect, like the marauder does, but for AA and AG? Or something like a smoke-screen in order to hide the tank from shots, so it gets hit less (much like the blinding cloud, but different). Or maybe something like a moving EMP/Disabler, such that spells cannot be cast in a certain area around it (makes use of positional play).
Just some rudimental ideas to find some synergy with tanks&thors maybe. I'd atleast like to see something like that more than the tankivac.
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- swarm host should be either removed or get into a somewhere viable position
- liberator anti air damage vs. e.g. mutalisks is at least questionable
- I would try to swap lurkers and ravagers position in game. This should make decision about removing tankivacs easier as well
gl ^^
I don't believe that the ravager meta of Zerg in all matchups can be viable in terms of fun & variety long term. Sure right now it is new and therefore noone complains. But it is gonna get old soon. Therefore the proposed changes.
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On February 28 2016 22:30 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. Nydus is more counterable then liberators so not sure why you put it there? Also SH are way more useless then Thors. Obvious Terran bias here.
And ravens are more useless than SH..
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On February 29 2016 19:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 22:30 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. Nydus is more counterable then liberators so not sure why you put it there? Also SH are way more useless then Thors. Obvious Terran bias here. And ravens are more useless than SH..
Still think that SH are way more useless than raven  Ravens have the auto-turret for harassment. (not saying that either is super strong)
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I thinks it's Terran that wins the competion of having the most useless units. :b
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On February 28 2016 23:09 PinoKotsBeer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. I agree and i'll add another one to the list. OracleWhy does the stasis ward not expire? the only spell in the game that last forever. ViperWhy cant we dodge the parasitic bomb and why does it stack.
So the supply drop should be temporary too? I am totally OK with that! 
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On February 29 2016 20:25 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2016 23:09 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. I agree and i'll add another one to the list. OracleWhy does the stasis ward not expire? the only spell in the game that last forever. ViperWhy cant we dodge the parasitic bomb and why does it stack. So the supply drop should be temporary too? I am totally OK with that!
The difference is that the supply drop requires depots to have been built in the first place. The oracle is able to shit out free widow mines, imagine if banshees could do that, that'd be something
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On February 29 2016 20:27 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2016 20:25 deacon.frost wrote:On February 28 2016 23:09 PinoKotsBeer wrote:On February 28 2016 21:45 SiaBBo wrote:
There are many units that don't make sense right now.
Cyclone
It's just incredibly bad. Nice to see Blizzard is maybe doing something about it.
Tempest
Why is it 4 supply? It makes no sense.
Thor
So in what scenario it is actually good to build Thors?
Warp Prism
Just remove pickup range.
Nydus Worm
Why is it still invisible while it's summoning?
I think Blizzard should look more into these units too. Tankivac is problematic since TvT is really frustrating but it makes TvZ pretty cool. I also think that Oracle may be a little too strong right now since it's the only aggression that Protoss really needs to do agains Terran. I'm okay with a slight Liberator nerf since they are quite strong but they can be countered. I agree and i'll add another one to the list. OracleWhy does the stasis ward not expire? the only spell in the game that last forever. ViperWhy cant we dodge the parasitic bomb and why does it stack. So the supply drop should be temporary too? I am totally OK with that! The difference is that the supply drop requires depots to have been built in the first place. The oracle is able to shit out free widow mines, imagine if banshees could do that, that'd be something
Is it a spell? Yes. Does it expire? No. Technically transfuse never expires either (that would be fun - 10 times transfused Ultralisk imploding after 20 seconds)
And yeah, let's change stasis ward to the stasis thingy that the good ol' Arbiter has. That would be more used than the actual trap(also broken ) They cannot change stasis ward to something else(expiring) and not turning it into utterly broken shit
Edit:
(or utterly useless)
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Here's a list of units/abilities that I think need to at least be looked at, and some possible solutions:
Zerg
Banelings: Reduce gas cost slightly (by 5?). There's less gas on the map to work with, more minerals. Marines are still just as easy to pump out, lings and banes are harder with larva change and less gas overall to work with.
Ravager: Corrosive Bile needs a longer cooldown, possible nerf/realloaction of damage.
Lurker: Damage slightly decreased.
Infestor: Revert/speed up fungal growth cast to make dealing with mass Phoenix/Chargelots/Blink Stalkers easier. When was the last time anyone landed a "money" fungal? It just doesn't happen to fast units. Infestors are nearly useless ATM for anything but in late game situations with Ultras. They provide almost zero utility to help you get there, though.
Nydus: Remove invulnerability while building, replace with heavy armor. Reduce cost of exit Nyduses.
Corruptor: Add + damage to massive to combat Tempests and Carriers. Possibly introduce an upgrade of some kind for Corruptors to make them faster/stronger in some way.
Terran:
Reaper: Decrease damage from 10 to 5 on KD8 Mine. Mass reapers are simply too strong early game TvZ.
Cyclone: Complete overhaul.
Orbital Command: Put a cooldown on OC's for casting mules, or limit the number of mules allowed on each mineral base. Mules continue to overly compensate for bad/damaged economies, for a race that is primarily mineral driven. OC's allow bailing out bad macro with spamming mules, allow instant supply block freeing, and scan anywhere on the map. For free. Zerg Lairs/Hives have no utility abilities.
Tanks: Allow pick up of tank in seige mode, drops in tank mode. Slight damage increase.
Liberators: Defender mode area should be smaller, they zone out too big of an area when massed. Flying attack should be nerfed slightly, and buffed slightly vs armored. Liberator speed should be nerfed slightly.
Banshee: Lower speed upgrade slightly.
Turrets: Lower damage vs. Bio slightly. Between mines, Turrets, and Liberators, Mutalisks are almost incapable of entering a Terran base.
Ghosts: Steady targeting is too strong. Aiming time/energy cost needs to be increased, or damage decreased.
Protoss:
Twilight Council: Charge and Blink seem too accessible early on, and both enable extremely powerful all ins from Toss. Maybe an increase in research time, or build time for the structure.
Disrupter: Purification Nova needs a change. Too much damage. Possibly make the casting time lower to decrease the range? Or increase it to give the opposing player more time to react/split units. .5 seconds would go a long way here in either direction.
High Templar: Reduce storm damage slightly.
Tempest:Reduce range or damage slightly. Increase Supply Cost to 6.
Oracle: Revelation duration needs to be reduced (60 seconds of eyes on your army is a ridiculous amount of time for a free spell cast by one of the fastest units in the game, with 9 range) and energy cost increased.
Pylon overcharge: Slight energy increase, possible duration decrease.
That's my two cents. Feedback/input is appreciated.
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As a case example, let's imagine the following unit as something that captures the essence of the tank: a unit which has to stand still and load for three seconds before firing some explosive projectile, if it moves before that the cooldown is reset. (like stringing a bow)
In contrast with the tank it has lost the mode transformations, it has gained in defensive mobility and the interaction with the medivac would feel more natural. In general it would be a streamlined version of the tank.
Can anyone tell me what the downsides to this substitution would be? Would it be less clumsy? What charms of the siege tank would fade? Is there anything particular about the siege tank that one can not easily replicate?
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EPT
