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On February 25 2016 02:21 Shellshock wrote:
Don't overlook Elazer. He has been doing pretty well lately
Especially in ZvZ, he's just comfortably beaten Vortix 3:0 in Acer Pro Challenge. On the other hand, if there is a wild card in this tournament, it's Vortix, 3:0 or not.
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On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly.
If you don't want racism brought into the argument it's really very simple, stop supporting a racist policy.
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On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter.
No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed?
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Austria18725 Posts
pig qualified over iaguz? wow
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On February 25 2016 04:11 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly. If you don't want racism brought into the argument it's really very simple, stop supporting a racist policy.
You can wave your "Racism!" flag as much as you want. That will not change shit.
Go ahead and boycott the tournament... You are at a loss.
Really exciting line-up, can't wait !
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011...
Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point.
Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want?
(also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...)
On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed?
2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners.
2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13
so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is.
From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion".
And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too.
But hey, I used numbers, I am evil 
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On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil
Foreigners are not that bad that they can't win foreigners only tournament, I guess 
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On February 25 2016 20:43 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil Foreigners are not that bad that they can't win foreigners only tournament, I guess
Yes, that's the secret.
Ironically I think that now, with the start of LotV, foreigners have the biggest chance of winning against Koreans, because meta is unknown and the difference is smaller(as we could saw at DH(?) last year). Sad story
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I think its pretty clear for anyone who understands a bit of SC2 LOTV that Kelazhur will most likely take this championship.
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On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil
Im sorry, what? Looking at premier tournaments in liquipedia its 17-15 for foreigners. Thats definitely not "most non-korean tournaments" wtf m7
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This is what i wanted to see without the "foreigners only at weekend tournaments" part to make it happen.
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Also holy hell the salt in this thread
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On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread
It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe.
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On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe.
I'm so gonna check if that's true now.
Edit: Wow, looks pretty cool. I'd love to visit that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine
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On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight.
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On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight.
Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow.
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On March 01 2016 02:55 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight. Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow.
If you ever do that, make sure to buy tickets in advance. Today I thought that I could drop by only to find it completely sold out.
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On March 01 2016 02:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:55 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight. Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow. If you ever do that, make sure to buy tickets in advance. Today I thought that I could drop by only to find it completely sold out.
Damn, too bad, will do.
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EPT
