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China6329 Posts
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Holy smokes, where to begin...
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shame its single elim again really hope they think about going double elim later on.
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no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance.
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Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament?
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Vortix > Bunny finals btw
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On February 23 2016 13:55 Cricketer12 wrote:
Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament?
It's both the first of the three WCS Circuit Championships and also IEM Season X.
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China6329 Posts
By the way I don't understand why they insisting on changing everything to brackets instead of groups + brackets.
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Honestly I can't remember the last time I was this hyped about the opening round of a tournament. WCS Winter is out of control from the get-go and I have a feeling we're going to see some wild stuff these first few games.
IMO games to watch: Bunny vs Has, XiGua vs ViOLet, and Polt vs Lambo
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On February 23 2016 14:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 13:55 Cricketer12 wrote:
Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament? It's both the first of the three WCS Circuit Championships and also IEM Season X.
Where's PartinG, INnovation, Classic and soO then, it's not IEM (technically)
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On February 23 2016 13:48 evolsiefil wrote:
no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance.
Pretty cold... EU happens to be one of the most entertaining regions right now with some incredibly fun games(imo). Korea's been amazing entertainment as well, but this tournament looks like a blast. Give it a shot! (unless your going to go in with a completely negative mindset; then might as well skip it)
oh yea... $150,000 prize pool!!!!!!!!!
I was going to say I think it's miscategorized because it's offering 11,000 WCS points when Global events, which combine the 2 WCS regions(WCS Korea & WCS Circuit), only offer 7,500 points. But then ya look at a season of GSL Code S, which offers 24,800 points... So it does kind of balance out. Still though.. It is called "IEM season X World Championship"... I'm just guessing there wasn't a big enough tournament being put on in this time frame to call it a Winter Circuit Championship, so they had to go with this one?
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On February 23 2016 13:48 evolsiefil wrote:
no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance.
Just like last time right?
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On February 23 2016 14:53 MistakeSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 13:48 evolsiefil wrote:
no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance. Just like last time right?
Come on neeeeeeeb!
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On February 23 2016 13:48 evolsiefil wrote:
no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance.
Polt will have a word to say on this.
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(T)Polt vs (Z)Lambo
(P)PtitDrogo vs (T)Dayshi
(Z)Serral vs (Z)FireCake
(T)Bunny vs (P)Has
(P)MaNa vs (P)PiLiPiLi
(P)HuK vs (Z)PiG
(P)ShoWTimE vs (Z)Nerchio
(P)Lilbow vs (Z)SortOf
(P)puCK vs (T)MarineLorD
(Z)XiGua vs (Z)viOLet
(T)MaSa vs (P)Harstem
(T)MajOr vs (Z)Snute
(T)Happy vs (Z)Hydra
(T)Kelazhur vs (P)Neeb
(Z)VortiX vs (Z)Elazer
(Z)iAsonu vs (Z)TLO
(T)Polt vs (P)PtitDrogo
(Z)Serral vs (T)Bunny
(P)MaNa vs (Z)PiG
(Z)Nerchio vs (P)Lilbow
(T)MarineLorD vs (Z)viOLet
(P)Harstem vs (Z)Snute
(Z)Hydra vs (P)Neeb
(Z)Elazer vs (Z)iAsonu
(T)Polt vs (T)Bunny
(P)MaNa vs (Z)Nerchio
(Z)viOLet vs (Z)Snute
(P)Neeb vs (Z)Elazer
(T)Polt vs (Z)Nerchio
(Z)Snute vs (P)Neeb
(T)Polt vs (P)Neeb
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Some of these matches are vastly different in terms of the level of players. Unfortunately, the sc2 community still insists that any kind of subjective seeding is the devil and ruins competition, despite the fact that Dota 2, CSGO, and Smash all use it consistently with great success. I feel bad for players like Showtime/Happy.
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On February 23 2016 14:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 13:55 Cricketer12 wrote:
Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament? It's both the first of the three WCS Circuit Championships and also IEM Season X.
Well it does make a difference to Chinese audiences
If it's considered an IEM, then HuomaoTV has exclusive broadcast right... which kinda of sucks
If it's considered a WCS event, then maybe I can see it on Douyu with better casting
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Please Happy! you have to do this!
All bo5 from the get go, I hope they don't skip too many matches.
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On February 23 2016 16:05 ejozl wrote:
Please Happy! you have to do this!
All bo5 from the get go, I hope they don't skip too many matches.
Dont worry, as sOs taught us, they'll skip just enough matches to make us wonder who the hell the finalists are.
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China6329 Posts
On February 23 2016 15:43 Yiome wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 14:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 23 2016 13:55 Cricketer12 wrote:
Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament? It's both the first of the three WCS Circuit Championships and also IEM Season X. Well it does make a difference to Chinese audiences If it's considered an IEM, then HuomaoTV has exclusive broadcast right... which kinda of sucks If it's considered a WCS event, then maybe I can see it on Douyu with better casting
Pretty sure it is a WCS event forefront plus xiaose already said he is going to cover it.
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doesnt make me hyped to be honest
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Really excited about this new WCS without koreans always winning!
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I really wish I could be more excited about this. I recognize the names and they're gonna be fun matches cause they're pretty even against each other, but it's not close to the highest level of play.
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It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this.
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Looking forward to Serral - Has!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this.
Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament 
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On February 23 2016 17:45 Chaggi wrote:
I really wish I could be more excited about this. I recognize the names and they're gonna be fun matches cause they're pretty even against each other, but it's not close to the highest level of play.
Lower rounds should be more random and entertaining, ro8 and higher should have high-ish level. Which I think is fine and healthy, that's how most tournaments in the world work.
I completely agree that lack of seeding is really hurting this tournament. Nerchio vs Showtime is a match between recently best foreign players of their respective races and they meet in ro32, it's just supid.
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On February 23 2016 13:48 evolsiefil wrote:
no koreans dont care. grats to hydra in advance.
Then dont comment
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That french racism.
Also kek, hydra is bad he'll lose.
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Can't wait for HuK vs PiG. Extremely hyped.
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rather uninteresting lineup, not gonna tune in.
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Hype!
Hydra - Happy. That will either be over in under 20 minutes or take an awfully long time.
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Really hyped, more than ever.
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On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament
Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-)
Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ...
The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-)
From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet.
And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet.
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On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet.
Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something?
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On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something?
Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something?
No.
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On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend.
I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason.
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On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason.
You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling.
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On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling.
There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority.
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Pretty hyped for the matches. Been a while since I've been excited about the game but this year with LOTV is gearing up.
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On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority.
Sorry boy. You are the one who started non on point attacking.
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On February 23 2016 20:23 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority. Sorry boy. I am not going to fight wars with idiots.
And this would not be a 2 day ban by your rules? Your sig isn't really on the up and up either.
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On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend.
Why do you keep spreading so much negativity, you won´t achieve your goal and affect the hype of others unfortunatly.
I know so many of you hate this changes, how about you make an own thread and show your disgrace towards the new WCS system. No matter which thread, everywhere are this salty posts, it really doesn´t contribute anything. 
If I don´t enjoy an event/anything, guess what, yeah i don´t watch it. But i am to old to go around and tell everyone
how i am not watching, simply because nobody fk cares mate.
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happy got hydra in the first round? really? T_T
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Dear Hydra:
Happy Independence Day !!
Signed,
Happy
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On February 23 2016 20:23 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority. Sorry boy. You are the one who started non on point attacking.
Lol at your panic edit. And no I wasn't. That entire post, including your sig, is an attack to everyone who disagrees with your elitist snobbery and just wants to have fun with this WCS season. You don't like it? Fine. But stop coming into these threads with your pissy attitude then.
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Has is gonna humiliate bunny so hard.
Probably gonna be painful to watch.
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On February 23 2016 21:13 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:23 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority. Sorry boy. You are the one who started non on point attacking. Lol at your panic edit. And no I wasn't. That entire post, including your sig, is an attack to everyone who disagrees with your elitist snobbery and just wants to have fun with this WCS season. You don't like it? Fine. But stop coming into these threads with your pissy attitude then. Because people aren't allowed to show their disgust with a system that systematically bans all the players from a specific country from all international tournaments for no reason other then being "too good".
Personally I'm pretty hyped for this tournament as I find foreigner starcraft to be very enjoyable sometimes but the current system is just incredibly unfair towards korean players and that has to be mentioned.
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On February 23 2016 21:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 21:13 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:23 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:[quote] Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority. Sorry boy. You are the one who started non on point attacking. Lol at your panic edit. And no I wasn't. That entire post, including your sig, is an attack to everyone who disagrees with your elitist snobbery and just wants to have fun with this WCS season. You don't like it? Fine. But stop coming into these threads with your pissy attitude then. Because people aren't allowed to show their disgust with a system that systematically bans all the players from a specific country from all international tournaments for no reason other then being "too good". Personally I'm pretty hyped for this tournament as I find foreigner starcraft to be very enjoyable sometimes but the current system is just incredibly unfair towards korean players and that has to be mentioned.
And apparently that has to be mentioned over and over again in the most obnoxiously condescending manner possible in *every single thread* on the subject.
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Although I'm a bit hyped for the production value behind this, this new system is to me like a Paralympics Championship.
It's just not a world wide competition if you divide into 2 categories of players: those who have a chance (Korea) and those who don't.
It doesn't make sense and I was wayyyy more hyped for some clash between top foreigners and a korean than this kindergarden crap now.
Sorry for the honesty, but it should be allowed to critisize.
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Looking forward to the inevitable insanity of Has vs Bunny.
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the format is super brutal. The first match you do is worth 6000 dollars. Lose it and you go home empty handed
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On February 23 2016 22:13 africola wrote:
Although I'm a bit hyped for the production value behind this, this new system is to me like a Paralympics Championship.
It's just not a world wide competition if you divide into 2 categories of players: those who have a chance (Korea) and those who don't.
It doesn't make sense and I was wayyyy more hyped for some clash between top foreigners and a korean than this kindergarden crap now.
Sorry for the honesty, but it should be allowed to critisize.
Region locked tournaments happen in any sports and aren't comparable in any way to paralympics.
The only problem right now is that koreans are banned from ALL international tournaments.
Honestly, make a good number of global events and the system would be fine.
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So hyped for this ! D: Those matches looks good ! Cant wait for it to start! :D
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On February 23 2016 14:22 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 14:07 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 23 2016 13:55 Cricketer12 wrote:
Wait so is this iem or the official wcs tournament? It's both the first of the three WCS Circuit Championships and also IEM Season X. Where's PartinG, INnovation, Classic and soO then, it's not IEM (technically)
you forgot herO and Rain! although, one of them is retired anyways...
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On February 23 2016 22:13 africola wrote:
Although I'm a bit hyped for the production value behind this, this new system is to me like a Paralympics Championship.
It's just not a world wide competition if you divide into 2 categories of players: those who have a chance (Korea) and those who don't.
It doesn't make sense and I was wayyyy more hyped for some clash between top foreigners and a korean than this kindergarden crap now.
Sorry for the honesty, but it should be allowed to critisize.
a bit weird that you call anybody outside korea handicapped.
however, I must agree, there are little to no examples in real sports where the best of the best are excluded from a world cup... then again, a world cup SERIES can have regional events which build up to a truly global event. in sc2 it is traditionally broken down into two regions (inside and outside of korea) and I see no intrinsic problem with that, because the Korean scene is as big as the other (foreign) scenes combined. it has always been like that and now it's simply more restrictive.
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On February 23 2016 21:13 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2016 20:23 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:17 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:13 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:12 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:09 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 20:06 Thax wrote:On February 23 2016 20:04 Diabolique wrote:On February 23 2016 18:18 deacon.frost wrote:On February 23 2016 18:06 Cinek357 wrote:
It's actually the first tournament since a looong time that I am planning to watch quite a lot matches. Not all of them, as I get bored of Starcraft after a while, but having a chance of foreigners going deep in an important tournament is really exciting to me and I want to watch this. Well yeah, that's for sure, foreigners will go deep. That's like watching Europe Championship in football and celebrating the fact, that some European team will go deep in the tournament Come on, you know, this is the "World Championship with the 32 best players in the world" :-) Actually a pretty nice welfare vacation with all inclusive for several non European players ... The RO32 does not look so great with quite many seriously weak players ... Even RO16 does not look so great. But RO8 could be very interesting. I hope Polt, Hydra and Violet will become "the best foreigners" :-) From RO32, I look forward only to Showtime / Nerchio, as both are quite good and one big supporter of the welfare system could get out in the first round. And PiG / HuK as both are my favorite players. From RO16, I would like to see Serral vs. Has, but although Has is a funny and entertaining player, he has probably no chance and will be lucky if he gets into RO16 at all. The best matches could be MarineLord / Violet. And I hope, Snute does well and gets far. But unfortunately, he is in the same part as MarineLord / Violet. Could you kindly just piss off and go shitpost your salt in some Kespa thread or something? Well, I think, you should actually piss off my friend. I'm not the one trolling and shit stirring for no reason. You are. I actually believe, you deserve a two day ban for your post. I hope, you get it. My post was on point and about the matches. Your post is just idiotic trolling. There is nothing "on point" about your post. It's one big condescending passive aggressive troll so you can demonstrate your misguided sense of superiority. Sorry boy. You are the one who started non on point attacking. Lol at your panic edit. And no I wasn't. That entire post, including your sig, is an attack to everyone who disagrees with your elitist snobbery and just wants to have fun with this WCS season. You don't like it? Fine. But stop coming into these threads with your pissy attitude then.
Waitwaitwait. Disliking WCS has nothing to do with elitism. For me, I hate the new WCS system as it ignores the players that devote the most to the game in disregard of their actual chances. Remember the story of Duckdeok. He came to win a rather weak competition as a rather weak b-teamer from Korea. Without that though he'd have had 2-4 years of being a b-teamer (widely considered as irrelevant by many) without any chance to shine. However he devoted so much to this, to his dream of programing, that it's much more than your average foreign champ will ever do. Compare that devotion to a guy named Lilbow who didn't give a shit about practicing for the tournament that for many is a once-in-a-lifetime-chance (Blizzcon).
Lilbow is probably going to earn more (or has already earned more) money than duckdeok. In which world is that fair.
And yes, while this is a single example that is very much in the favour of what I try to express here, the WCS system is all around based on rewarding the guys that put less effort into the game and have an overall worse skill level than the koreans. If Blizzard insists on making WCS more foreigner friendly by locking out the overall better part of the players, they should create opportunities to push the korean scene as well. They should provide more price money to Korea, fund more tournaments in Korea, support grassroots movements and so on. They should not just say "hey there's WCS global, right?" because the whole idea of a WORLD championship series is that it is global.
From 8 foreign Blizzcon slots, 6, maybe seven, and maybe even all 8 will be stolen from more deserving koreans. This is what I blame WCS for. Pushing a weaker pro scene at the aggressive expense of another is not the way to go.
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Is this the tournament that will have the winner get roflstomped by a Korean in a showmatch afterwards?
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SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good.
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Tournament from middle of the week to the finals on 17.30 CET Saturday...
This should be the prime product of WCS 2016... and is handled really professional like we are used to with all WCS Events.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 24 2016 00:36 alukarD wrote:
SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good.
I won't be supportive about some shit I hate. What many WCS haters want is some global events to be announced. Right now the only global event is Blizzcon! If the season will follow the same schedule as the last one, we are passed 20 % of it and we haven't had 1 fucking global event.
(Blizzcon in November, the last tourney in October)
I am trying to ignore WCS threads and just read them to point out some stupid shit(like "geez, foreigners will go deep in this tournament!"), but when people write something like you I really cannot control myself.
And again, don't use football analogy, for the love of me, do not use this fucking idiotic analogy. The analogy is so far from showing what is happening in SC2 that it's not even funny.
Oh, and you know what is funny? The last year I could choose several tournaments to see the top players who travels(sOs, herO, Innovation, soO etc.). Now I have NOTHING. Yay, I should be supportive? Are you fucking kidding me?! I was supportive before when I was visiting those, now fuck them. Anyway, I don't have the money to travel to Korea every now and then to see these players. Hey, but it's OK, I should be supportive... really?!
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On February 24 2016 00:59 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 00:36 alukarD wrote:
SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good. I won't be supportive about some shit I hate. What many WCS haters want is some global event s to be announced. Right now the only global event is Blizzcon! If the season will follow the same schedule as the last one, we are passed 20 % of it and we haven't had 1 fucking global event. (Blizzcon in November, the last tourney in October) I am trying to ignore WCS threads and just read them to point out some stupid shit(like "geez, foreigners will go deep in this tournament!"), but when people write something like you I really cannot control myself. And again, don't use football analogy, for the love of me, do not use this fucking idiotic analogy. The analogy is so far from showing what is happening in SC2 that it's not even funny. Oh, and you know what is funny? The last year I could choose several tournaments to see the top players who travels(sOs, herO, Innovation, soO etc.). Now I have NOTHING. Yay, I should be supportive? Are you fucking kidding me?! I was supportive before when I was visiting those, now fuck them. Anyway, I don't have the money to travel to Korea every now and then to see these players. Hey, but it's OK, I should be supportive... really?!
Well I'm sorry to hear that. Sadly, the system won't change because an angry fan.
Rather than pointing out the things you're sad/mad about, why not find solutions or ways to improve the scene in the actual system?
The system is not perfect. Which system is? But I'm willing to give it a chance. This systems brings out talent from smaller places from all around the world. If the game was only for the very best and all koreans could play at all the tournaments, how could these new talents arise or even show themselves to the world? The scene needs more local heroes. You can choose who to support, and if that's koreans well so be it, GSL and Proleague are happening, and if you want to see them live, well sorry it got more difficult. Its always been like this in all sports. I've wanted to see the Superbowl live for several years now, be part of the yelling crowd. Do you think it is easy to do it? Well, no.
But overall, if you're that unhappy, just cut yourself from the scene, and stop being a dragger. Scene is doing good so far.
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tournament isn't the same without an all korean line-up....
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On February 24 2016 00:36 alukarD wrote:
SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good.
SC2 is not a team game. Better comparison would be with tennis, and WCS being the equivalent of ATP. And oh, guess what? ATP doesn't lock out certain players from participating in lower-tier tournaments for the sake of "developing the local scene", though I admit it would be pretty fun to see the Dubai Tennis Championships being reserved to tennismen from the Arabic peninsula. I'm sure local tennismen would love to share a $2,000,000 prizepool.
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I'll watch Has. Besides that I'm with the guys who are against this. I give no fucks
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On February 23 2016 15:20 OSCEWiNtER wrote:
(T)Polt vs (Z)Lambo
(P)PtitDrogo vs (T)Dayshi
(Z)Serral vs (Z)FireCake
(T)Bunny vs (P)Has
(P)MaNa vs (P)PiLiPiLi
(P)HuK vs (Z)PiG
(P)ShoWTimE vs (Z)Nerchio
(P)Lilbow vs (Z)SortOf
(P)puCK vs (T)MarineLorD
(Z)XiGua vs (Z)viOLet
(T)MaSa vs (P)Harstem
(T)MajOr vs (Z)Snute
(T)Happy vs (Z)Hydra
(T)Kelazhur vs (P)Neeb
(Z)VortiX vs (Z)Elazer
(Z)iAsonu vs (Z)TLO
(T)Polt vs (P)PtitDrogo
(Z)Serral vs (T)Bunny
(P)MaNa vs (Z)PiG
(Z)Nerchio vs (P)Lilbow
(T)MarineLorD vs (Z)viOLet
(P)Harstem vs (Z)Snute
(Z)Hydra vs (P)Neeb
(Z)Elazer vs (Z)iAsonu
(T)Polt vs (T)Bunny
(P)MaNa vs (Z)Nerchio
(Z)viOLet vs (Z)Snute
(P)Neeb vs (Z)Elazer
(T)Polt vs (Z)Nerchio
(Z)Snute vs (P)Neeb
(T)Polt vs (P)Neeb
This is what people from NA actually believe. Neeb is not going past 2nd round. Even thou HuK is an inferior player, he actually might reach round 3 because of brackets.
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I dont understand why people still complaining about Korean not there in internationnal events :/. You can watch SSL GSL Proleague, and a BUNCH of tournaments who are not in WCS system. (BasetradeTV, Showmatches, ONline cups)
Im really tired to see comments like "This korean deserve more cause he dedicate more to the game." And when you answer foreigners dedicate as much, you still have the look at stephano/lilbow case going right in your face. Like theres two players in the scene...
Stop being so mad that we have now diversity in SC... Let some of foreigners have some hope for their progamming carrer. TY.
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On February 24 2016 01:19 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 00:36 alukarD wrote:
SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good. SC2 is not a team game. Better comparison would be with tennis, and WCS being the equivalent of ATP. And oh, guess what? ATP doesn't lock out certain players from participating in lower-tier tournaments for the sake of "developing the local scene", though I admit it would be pretty fun to see the Dubai Tennis Championships being reserved to tennismen from the Arabic peninsula. I'm sure local tennismen would love to share a $2,000,000 prizepool.
Ok you're right its not a team game and I don't know how tennis works, tournaments-wise.
This system sure it doesn't benefit Koreans, but it does benefit a ton more of people. Many fans will go away with system, but I believe way more fans will come to the scene having locals players, regional players or national players to support. Koreans will always have their fans all around the world, but some people, I would say most of the people, want to cheer for a national champ and see them beat the rest of the world and be happy and relate with their triumph.
Also, having this type of more local heroes and more players representing more parts of the world its good for investment, its good for esports, attracting more companies and big brands on supporting this game; and this obviously is good for the scene, for the fans, for the players, having bigger tournaments and bigger prize-pools; and this results on attracting more players to the scene.
Before the system, how many Koreans were making a profit? Compare that number with how many players making a profit from USA, Canada, France, Germany, etc. Ok, now, with the new system, that numbers gets more even. More people get more chances. Sad for Koreans, yeah, but very happy for the rest of the world.
Its a new system! Try to enjoy it.
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On February 24 2016 01:42 SinO[Ob] wrote:
I dont understand why people still complaining about Korean not there in internationnal events :/. You can watch SSL GSL Proleague, and a BUNCH of tournaments who are not in WCS system. (BasetradeTV, Showmatches, ONline cups)
Maybe its just about the love of complain... And Im really tired to see comments like "This korean deserve more cause he dedicate more to the game." And when you answer foreigners dedicate as much, you still have the look at stephano/lilbow case going right in your face. Like theres two players in the scene...
Stop being so mad that we have now diversity in SC... Let some of foreigners have some hope for their progamming carrer. TY.
How about no?
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this thread is getting pretty edgy
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I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai
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On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai
Maybe you should try finding some silver league replays for download. I'm sure you would have a blast watching those
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On February 23 2016 19:24 boxerfred wrote:
rather uninteresting lineup, not gonna tune in.
What if we had naniwa instead of nerchio? 
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On February 24 2016 01:18 Advantageous wrote:
tournament isn't the same without an all korean line-up....
Seriously, its an IEM...where are parting hero sos san soo inno etc...
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On February 24 2016 02:24 `sawyer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai Maybe you should try finding some silver league replays for download. I'm sure you would have a blast watching those
do you absolutely have to be a dick ?
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Who is part of the IEM Casting crew Nowadays? Still Kaelaris and Todd?
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On February 24 2016 00:28 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Is this the tournament that will have the winner get roflstomped by a Korean in a showmatch afterwards?
Oh lord this is the tournament where top finishers will get to play against Koreans in a showmatch.
I am not going to bash this WCS system, because I think it will do more good than harm.
However, this showmatch is a horrible horrible idea. It will just reinforce the fact that Koreans are still leagues ahead of the pack.
I don't mind watching slightly lesser grade games being played, but I don't think it is necessary to cater to the hardcore elitist fans that want to watch the best participate also with this inane showmatch.
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Australia18228 Posts
On February 24 2016 03:06 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 00:28 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Is this the tournament that will have the winner get roflstomped by a Korean in a showmatch afterwards? Oh lord this is the tournament where top finishers will get to play against Koreans in a showmatch. I am not going to bash this WCS system, because I think it will do more good than harm. However, this showmatch is a horrible horrible idea. It will just reinforce the fact that Koreans are still leagues ahead of the pack. I don't mind watching slightly lesser grade games being played, but I don't think it is necessary to cater to the hardcore elitist fans that want to watch the best participate also with this inane showmatch.
What showmatch? Blizzcon?
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Looking forward to this tournament a lot! 
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Ya'll can't appreciate high level production and the highest level non-Korean players playing in a tournament. Okay.
How about the fact that most of the tournament takes place on Weds + Thurs. Now that's the ridiculous part.
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On February 24 2016 03:16 Inflicted wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 03:06 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On February 24 2016 00:28 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Is this the tournament that will have the winner get roflstomped by a Korean in a showmatch afterwards? Oh lord this is the tournament where top finishers will get to play against Koreans in a showmatch. I am not going to bash this WCS system, because I think it will do more good than harm. However, this showmatch is a horrible horrible idea. It will just reinforce the fact that Koreans are still leagues ahead of the pack. I don't mind watching slightly lesser grade games being played, but I don't think it is necessary to cater to the hardcore elitist fans that want to watch the best participate also with this inane showmatch. What showmatch? Blizzcon?
Actually I was talking about the WCS circuit in Shanghai
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503540-wcs-circuit-shanghai-announced
This is not the same.
This new WCS system is a bit confusing
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Top 16 gets $6000.. So really their first Bo5 set is worth a nice $6000 vs going home with $0.
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I'm hoping for a #KvK final.
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On February 24 2016 03:33 Hotshot wrote:
Top 16 gets $6000.. So really their first Bo5 set is worth a nice $6000 vs going home with $0.
brutal
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Super important (for foreigners) tournament, and they do all 32 players as single elim? lol shit, at least it's bo5 I guess
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Tough 1st round draw for Happy, but I'm hoping for the best!
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So hyped about this!!!!
Kelazhur already got this tourney!
Just wish it had a lower bracket =/
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On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai
This game was amazing.
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Why are people whining so much? I don't see the problem here.
I get that it's a bit rough that it is single elimination, however, it is also BO5 from the start, right?
Can someone explain the massive amounts of salt to me?
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On February 24 2016 05:06 Kaeque wrote:
Why are people whining so much? I don't see the problem here.
I get that it's a bit rough that it is single elimination, however, it is also BO5 from the start, right?
Can someone explain the massive amounts of salt to me?
Some people would prefer Koreans and the highest level of gameplay over foreigners.
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On February 24 2016 05:06 Kaeque wrote:
Why are people whining so much? I don't see the problem here.
I get that it's a bit rough that it is single elimination, however, it is also BO5 from the start, right?
Can someone explain the massive amounts of salt to me?
If you're talking about tournament format, it's because lack of seeding causes good players face each other in very early stages.
If you're talking about WCS system, I'm out.
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Crossing fingers for a good show, it's the future of foreign sc2 which is at stakes.
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On February 24 2016 04:56 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai This game was amazing.
What happened there? VOD? :D
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On February 24 2016 01:45 alukarD wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 01:19 OtherWorld wrote:On February 24 2016 00:36 alukarD wrote:
SC2 needed a drastic change. Blizzard made drastic changes. For me, it makes sense.
We don't get to see play the best against the best in the world at every tournament, actually, its more occasionally, happening for some sports once a year (say Champions league), or even once every four years (say World Cup). I never see my soccer team (Mexico) play against the best of the world (for example, Germany or Spain), but when I do, I get really excited.
Same here. When the best foreigners clash against the best Koreans at some tournaments a year, that is going to be super hype, with more story-lines and more players people can cheer for.
Try to be supportive. So far so good. SC2 is not a team game. Better comparison would be with tennis, and WCS being the equivalent of ATP. And oh, guess what? ATP doesn't lock out certain players from participating in lower-tier tournaments for the sake of "developing the local scene", though I admit it would be pretty fun to see the Dubai Tennis Championships being reserved to tennismen from the Arabic peninsula. I'm sure local tennismen would love to share a $2,000,000 prizepool. Ok you're right its not a team game and I don't know how tennis works, tournaments-wise. This system sure it doesn't benefit Koreans, but it does benefit a ton more of people. Many fans will go away with system, but I believe way more fans will come to the scene having locals players, regional players or national players to support. Koreans will always have their fans all around the world, but some people, I would say most of the people, want to cheer for a national champ and see them beat the rest of the world and be happy and relate with their triumph. Also, having this type of more local heroes and more players representing more parts of the world its good for investment, its good for esports, attracting more companies and big brands on supporting this game; and this obviously is good for the scene, for the fans, for the players, having bigger tournaments and bigger prize-pools; and this results on attracting more players to the scene. Before the system, how many Koreans were making a profit? Compare that number with how many players making a profit from USA, Canada, France, Germany, etc. Ok, now, with the new system, that numbers gets more even. More people get more chances. Sad for Koreans, yeah, but very happy for the rest of the world. Its a new system! Try to enjoy it.
Yes, this system benefits foreigners and is bad for Koreans, that's a fact. Yes, there are more foreigner "pro" players than Korean pros, I think that's a fact too, thus it does benefit a ton more people if you look at raw numbers. If this is a good thing, or a bad thing, is up for individual interpretation.
It may or may not attract new viewers, the fact that most people want to cheer for their countrymen may or may not be real.
The fact that it is better for investment may or may not be real, as we currently have no evidence going for either side. But independently of that, the potential increase in investment in foreign SC2 will be compensated by a potential decrease in investment in Korean SC2.
Thus we can make the bold conclusion that this new system seems good for the foreign scene, and bad for the Korean scene. Unsurprisingly, this is what he was designed to achieve. This conclusion may or may not be a good thing, depending on each individual's desires, ideas and ideals.
It's the same arguments over and over again, and it's pointless to argue over and over again (don't get me wrong, it's not directed at you specifically, but at everyone arguing about the system by now). We won't know who's right and who's wrong until... never? So yeah I was just saying that no one should make comparisons between football/soccer and SC2. Comparing real sports with eSports is something that must be done with caution, and comparing team sports with team eSports and individual eSports with individual sports is a step in the right direction.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On February 23 2016 13:29 A_Scarecrow wrote:
shame its single elim again really hope they think about going double elim later on.
Yes please.
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Polt vs Lambo, PtitDrogo vs Dayshi, XiGua vs viOLet, and Vortix vs Elazer are what I'm looking forward to. Always like watching Polt play, PtitDrogo is a beast, XiGua and viOLet are arguably two of the strongest palyers there, and I really want to see how Vortix is playing these days after switching to Heroes for so long.
Gonna be hype!
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Single elimination bracket for something worth this much money is pretty disgusting. I really wish that was reconsidered
Sick losers bracket runs can be some of the most hype things ever.
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Very much looking forward to this tournament, and watching the matches.
It's not perfect, true (and I dont mean the lack of all korean quarter/semi finals some lament in tournamen threads). The days/times are hardly great and with decidedly harder games in the first round the lack of a group stage/losers bracket seems quite brutal.
But I don't see the need to try to turn threads like this into where are the Koreans, not going to watch, this sucks etc. I can appreciate you might not like or agree with the changes but I just don't see what this accomplishes.
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I have watched since the first WCS ( stephano vs MVP <3 was epic), but this is the first WCS i will not watch, and might never watch again if things dont change.
Im a huge sc2 fan, but like a lot of people, i want to see the best, not the best of the scrubs.
This new WCS to me is downright racist, and the person who thought about that rule should be fired.
I encourage every people that doesnt like this new system to simply not watch at all the tournament.
I still watch every ProLeague, GSL and SSL, and will continue to support the koreans, since they clearly put more time and effort to be good at this game, and get punish for that in the most unfair way possible.
But, i understand some people might prefer seeing foreigner over quality level of play, and i respect your opinion.
So i hope you will all have a wonderfull WCS and watch great games even with this lower caliber of player, im just gonna pass my turn on this WCS.
GLHF
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Lets see how this evolves, with very little koreans hopefully more foreign players will take championships. Sadly dont think Ill watch this, very few korean powerrrrr
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i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region!
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On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region!
If a korean b teamer is better than the other players participating in DH/IEM they fucking deserve to win it.
How is it fair that a worse player has more success than a better one because of the country they were born in?
edit: the bolded quote sounds incredibly racist.
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On February 24 2016 10:45 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! If a korean b teamer is better than the other players participating in DH/IEM they fucking deserve to win it. How is it fair that a worse player has more success than a better one because of the country they were born in? edit: the bolded quote sounds incredibly racist. yep, thats the problem with these plebs. Yeah it might but fun for some to have ''local'' heroes.
But why should people that are better, put more efforts and time in a game be punished because they are born in the wrong country?
Thats like saying ''we will ban team canada from hockey olympics, simply because France, japan etc cant compete with them!''
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On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair.
As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage.
They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless.
Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too.
But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid.
But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do.
But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that.
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On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that.
Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part.
Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene.
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On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene.
And even if we were willing, which we're not, when the EXACT same thing happens in two years and whoever is left in Korea is destroying every foreigner again, what then?
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On February 24 2016 11:37 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. And even if we were willing, which we're not, when the EXACT same thing happens in two years and whoever is left in Korea is destroying every foreigner again, what then?
Then its a failure. But to see if it works you have to try it. I dont understand that you people really think thats the last move of Blizzard. WCS is changing season after season. Why would it be different here? So let foreigners and their team having visibility/titles/money for some times if the scene dont grow up then it will be korean again or not. Rules will change let hem make their proof before speculating.
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On February 24 2016 05:57 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 04:56 Boucot wrote:On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai This game was amazing. What happened there? VOD? :D
http://www.twitch.tv/ogamingsc2/v/40157880 starting at the 39 minute mark. It's casted in french tho, sorry ^^
Basically it's a super back and forth, low-eco game with super cute micro moves from both players, and action all around the map. Highly untertaining all game long
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wait this is single elim?
isnt this the main official WCS season 1? uhh..why single elim for the WCS main season...
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On February 24 2016 13:18 mikumegurine wrote:
wait this is single elim?
isnt this the main official WCS season 1? uhh..why single elim for the WCS main season...
Its simple, we ban koreans. Problem solved.
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A single-elim bracket with more than 16 players is a joke.
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I haven't been watching/playing sc2 that much lately playing/watching a lot of dota and bass. But this i might have to watch looks very interesting even with out Koreans(beside polt violet hydra masa LOL but you get it). Might even start playing more again cause how much fun it looks. HYPE?!??!?!? for sc2?!?!? the passion back? LOL jkjk sc2 always has a place in my heart. wish i had no life and could just play bass sc2 and dota all day.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 24 2016 09:53 Ensiferum8 wrote:
I have watched since the first WCS ( stephano vs MVP <3 was epic), but this is the first WCS i will not watch, and might never watch again if things dont change.
Im a huge sc2 fan, but like a lot of people, i want to see the best, not the best of the scrubs.
So 2013 Stephano and MVP were the best player in the world?
WCS has never been the best player, I don't mean that I totally agree with the new rules, but saying that WCS was the best player and now is "the best of the scrub" is just not true, hell it is like 80% the same players! Outside of MMA, Taeja, Hyun, MC at the start and mabye DuckDuck or Yoda their were no big tournament winner in WCS that are not there now.
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On February 24 2016 13:44 ZAiNs wrote:
A single-elim bracket with more than 16 players is a joke.
IDK about a joke but i do think they maybe need bo7 not bo5 or double elims, LOTV games are rather short. Even my mech games I play are at most 25-30 mins long, and a lot of them dont even get there.
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On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene.
koreans on a foreign team like TaeJa, HerO, PartinG etc don't have a superior training environment.
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On February 24 2016 14:37 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. koreans on a foreign team like TaeJa, HerO, PartinG etc don't have a superior training environment.
Teamless Pigbaby won WCS NA out of nowhere. Never forget.
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On February 24 2016 14:37 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. koreans on a foreign team like TaeJa, HerO, PartinG etc don't have a superior training environment.
They had those kind of environement (Teaja [Nex/Slayers]; Hero [oGs] Parting [fOu; FXopen, STartale, SKT1,YFW]) Its not like when you leave a team you forget all the advices/tips/organisation on how having a good training/shcedule/objectives and still they live and played on KR with no ping. Dont pretend they ahvae the same background as foreigners :/.
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On February 24 2016 08:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Single elimination bracket for something worth this much money is pretty disgusting. I really wish that was reconsidered
Sick losers bracket runs can be some of the most hype things ever.
I agree with SGTK, seeing a player on his last life manage to hang on to that thread and win the tournament is the best storyline. Its just like watching a movie!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene.
BULLSHIT!
Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end?
It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before.
I am sick of this BS.
Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right?
The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net.
So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw).
If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it...
Edit>
Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament?
Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community.
Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
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On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw).If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Show nested quote +Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
I think this misses the point. The point isn't to make foreign players actually equal to Korean ones (on average). The point is probably to generate interest among casual or new foreign fans who don't really have the nuanced understanding of the game to appreciate the differences in the levels of play (the kind of viewer that, like CatZ said, wouldn't know the difference between Korean pro matches or foreigner pro matches if the names were blanked), to grow the scene as a whole and make it more sustainable as a business.
The fact is the anti-WCS group represents a dedicated, smart and passionate but very small worldwide fan base of a few thousand people that isn't really large enough to sustain an international SC2 scene for many years going forward, which I'd guess is what Blizzard wants Maybe this change will still fail from a business perspective too, but the status quo clearly wasn't fulfilling that ambition either.
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On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Show nested quote +Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. Not just the best players from south korea,,,
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2016 00:50 SNSeigifried wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. Not just the best players from south korea,,,
ALL over the world means in my language whole world. Korea included.
Edit> To be fair, in my language I wouldn't need to emphasize that world includes Korea.
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On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it...
Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you.
Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual.
I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players, who just play the game casually I guess.
And may I had that SC2 was of the top of esport because LoL or Dota 2 didnt emerge. And team games are just more appealing than 1o1. This is a different topic.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess.
Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again?
What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2.
Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter.
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On February 24 2016 14:18 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 09:53 Ensiferum8 wrote:
I have watched since the first WCS ( stephano vs MVP <3 was epic), but this is the first WCS i will not watch, and might never watch again if things dont change.
Im a huge sc2 fan, but like a lot of people, i want to see the best, not the best of the scrubs.
So 2013 Stephano and MVP were the best player in the world? WCS has never been the best player, I don't mean that I totally agree with the new rules, but saying that WCS was the best player and now is "the best of the scrub" is just not true, hell it is like 80% the same players! Outside of MMA, Taeja, Hyun, MC at the start and mabye DuckDuck or Yoda their were no big tournament winner in WCS that are not there now.
Nope, not at all.
But its quite obvious that it was way higher quality.
Lets be fair, no one can deny that: Taeja, hyun, MC, San, Bomber, Jaedong, Duckdeok, Pigbaby etc... are WAYYYYYYY better than stuff like PiliPili, neeb, kelazhur, iasonu Pig (lol?), lambo, masa, xigua and many more. With all due respect to these pros.
Even more, the old system made it so that blizzcon (the biggest tournament of the year) was really competitive. We all remember how lilbow was pathetic and proved every fan of this system how awfull it is.
before, we had taeja, jaedong, mma etc.... which, granted were no soO, TY stats etc... but still way better than seeing foreigners getting demolish by simply vastly superior player.
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On February 25 2016 00:49 Kofuku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw).If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments The fact is the anti-WCS group represents a dedicated, smart and passionate but very small worldwide fan base of a few thousand people that isn't really large enough to sustain an international SC2 scene for many years going forward, which I'd guess is what Blizzard wants Maybe this change will still fail from a business perspective too, but the status quo clearly wasn't fulfilling that ambition either.
you call it a fact but I don't see how this is in any way true.
I know many casual players who watch sc2 who don't really care about "local heros" but tune in to watch marus sick micro skills or PartinGs unbelievable forcefields.
Saying creating local heroes will revive the casual interest is not more then a wild prediction
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On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter.
It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic.
Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it.
And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly.
Because many Korean players won't survive this. We lost many players where they went for the traditional humble "I quit, because army and stuff", but what a coincidence, they were on a foreign team. And everyone was shocked. /s
Also if some player won't qualify for 2 tournaments they are not to be seen for a half year! HALF YEAR! Parting? I want to see Parting playing in tournament! Well fuck me, right? Because he's not eligible for WCS I am fucked. Cool for me, right? Where WCS fan can see his players every month I can see a shit. Aw yeah. At least some players play once a week in proleague...
If they announced several global events, the ranting would be lower, because people would know that there is a chance to see the best players OUTSIDE of Korea. I am not saying it would stop the hate, but it would lower it substantially.
But here we are and we have nothing announced and we are 2/10 from the season already. Yay... Oh, sorry, we have Blizzcon!!!! HOLY SHIT AW YEAH! In US. That's for me the same like traveling to Korea. NO, that's different, in Korea I know what players I will see...(until blizzard closes some tunnel again )
Also props to you for avoiding the question.
BTW - I am from Czech Republic, give me my local hero, Czech Republic was NEVER EVER relevant in SC2. But somehow local heroes will revive the scene here after it being dead for 6 years in a row. The WCS will change everything! :o)
Edit>
Anyway, the top of SC2 was 2012, maybe 2013 HotS. The foreigners had the same start in 2010, were winning until 2012, but then in 2012 _something_ happened and sc2 is somehow dominated by Koreans. From 2012 it went downhill with audience numbers so my assumption isn't that wild. But whatever, you say SC2 wasn't in its best. I think that's plainly wrong. In 2010 - 2012 SC2 was the top eSport out there.
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On February 25 2016 01:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly. Because many Korean players won't survive this. We lost many players where they went for the traditional humble "I quit, because army and stuff", but what a coincidence, they were on a foreign team. And everyone was shocked. /s Also if some player won't qualify for 2 tournaments they are not to be seen for a half year! HALF YEAR! Parting? I want to see Parting playing in tournament! Well fuck me, right? Because he's not eligible for WCS I am fucked. Cool for me, right? Where WCS fan can see his players every month I can see a shit. Aw yeah. At least some players play once a week in proleague... If they announced several global events, the ranting would be lower, because people would know that there is a chance to see the best players OUTSIDE of Korea. I am not saying it would stop the hate, but it would lower it substantially. But here we are and we have nothing announced and we are 2/10 from the season already. Yay... Oh, sorry, we have Blizzcon!!!! HOLY SHIT AW YEAH! In US. That's for me the same like traveling to Korea. NO, that's different, in Korea I know what players I will see...(until blizzard closes some tunnel again ) Also props to you for avoiding the question. BTW - I am from Czech Republic, give me my local hero, Czech Republic was NEVER EVER relevant in SC2. But somehow local heroes will revive the scene here after it being dead for 6 years in a row. The WCS will change everything! :o)
I didnt avoid any questions there, or I didnt understood you very well. Enlight me please, my english is not that good. (no sarcasm)
And please if you see a Czech player rise is SC2 scene mean winning an IEM or DH which is possible NOW, don't tell me it will not give at least a BOOST for the CZ SC2 scene. Or if not reviving the scene having opportunity making some decent money with his passion and effort he puts in the game. I mean France is perfect exemple of that... And this nation wasnt more encline to go toward SC2 than any other nations.
And worrying about korean won't surviving in SC2 scene but forgot about some foreign players who struggle for years now, just because they dont have the same practice environement and putting as much effort in the game.
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United States97276 Posts
Don't overlook Elazer. He has been doing pretty well lately
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On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Show nested quote +Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments
Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please?
All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano.
Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results.
It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2.
How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined?
It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies.
Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps.
That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away"
Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s.
But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance.
In conlucison :
Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried.
If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011...
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I think that both of my Czech comrades' ranting tendencies are highly unlikely to accomplish anything, but I would take one idea from this discussion: what if we really stopped calling these things "premier tournaments"? To be fair, already the definition of a "premier tournament" was waaaay too broad, but it was still easy to recognize which are which by the algorithm "is it in Korea?" which was not that hard to apply.
Now there will be people eventually popping up making lists and statistics about "premier tournament wins", randomly mixing the tournaments that had Koreans with those that didn't. The biggest irony in this is that if this goes on for a couple of years, there will come a day, when people will undervalue Taeja's results because of this ...
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On February 25 2016 00:18 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 08:48 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Single elimination bracket for something worth this much money is pretty disgusting. I really wish that was reconsidered
Sick losers bracket runs can be some of the most hype things ever. I agree with SGTK, seeing a player on his last life manage to hang on to that thread and win the tournament is the best storyline. Its just like watching a movie!
Yea, like when squirtle won ipl 4!
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On February 25 2016 02:21 Shellshock wrote:
Don't overlook Elazer. He has been doing pretty well lately
Especially in ZvZ, he's just comfortably beaten Vortix 3:0 in Acer Pro Challenge. On the other hand, if there is a wild card in this tournament, it's Vortix, 3:0 or not.
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On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly.
If you don't want racism brought into the argument it's really very simple, stop supporting a racist policy.
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On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter.
No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed?
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pig qualified over iaguz? wow
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On February 25 2016 04:11 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:14 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Well it is, at start I was nice and didn't call it bullshit, but now? When it rises again and again? What are you talking about? Until 2013 there was no KeSPA in SC2, the positions were the same, many eSF teams disbanded when KeSPA came into SC2. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. It didnt matter really? Its not like SC2 was at his highest in this era... For 3 years now Korean roflstomping the foreign scene. And guess what people will let go with SC2 because cheering for a player from your country is way more attractive. Please do not put racism in this statement... This is simple logic. Why France having such an active SC2 scene? Stephano. No stephano maybe France would not have been that much into SC2. (Means no IronSquid/NationWars) We need to put foreigners in front of the scene. This is good for the health of it. And as I stated on another post WCS Rules changing every season. Why do you talk like its last move about WCS from Blizzard? There will be change if this dont work. Stop being so mad for something temporarly. If you don't want racism brought into the argument it's really very simple, stop supporting a racist policy.
You can wave your "Racism!" flag as much as you want. That will not change shit.
Go ahead and boycott the tournament... You are at a loss.
Really exciting line-up, can't wait !
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011...
Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point.
Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want?
(also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...)
On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed?
2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners.
2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13
so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is.
From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion".
And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too.
But hey, I used numbers, I am evil 
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On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil
Foreigners are not that bad that they can't win foreigners only tournament, I guess
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2016 20:43 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil Foreigners are not that bad that they can't win foreigners only tournament, I guess
Yes, that's the secret.
Ironically I think that now, with the start of LotV, foreigners have the biggest chance of winning against Koreans, because meta is unknown and the difference is smaller(as we could saw at DH(?) last year). Sad story
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I think its pretty clear for anyone who understands a bit of SC2 LOTV that Kelazhur will most likely take this championship.
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On February 25 2016 20:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 02:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Edit> Which brings me to a question, how can be WCS tournament with 2016 rules be a Premier tournament? Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community. Their not passing this, ehm, definition from liquipedia page. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Can you look at the brackets when Huk and thorzain were winning money and count the Koreans for me please? All these 2011 titles were won before Korean to massively come out of Korea. If you're not convinced, check this : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MLG and see the evolution of the winners and runner's up nationality. Truth is from the moment Koreans started to come, beside Huk incredible run in Orlando, it was over for all foreign hopes, except stephano. Moreover, when a game is new, everybody starts with the same knowledge and skill. That's how you have Adelscott defeating MVP with one gate expand, the idea is kinda new, the counter is not figured out yet. Foreigners are not less smart than koreans you give them the same tools they have the same results. It's after the initial 2 years that the difference becomes huge, because Koreans, even in their "dying scene" can actually live from esport. Foreigners can't. Even a guy like stephano had to stop and go back to uni, because financially there is no future for him in sc2. How many foreigners have been fully practicing for 6 years? none because it would be foolish. Just list all the every talented foreigners that were able to compete with koreans for a couple of month and then slowly declined? It all comes from the fact that by the time they finally practiced enough to become a threat, foreigners had to retire and go back to studies. Btw, EG making tons of money has yet to be proven, but if they did they would have stayed in the scene, instead all their good players had to leave or went through abysimal slumps. That's how EG disappeared, not by "taking the money and running away" Last, you have to remember that nothing was sustainable in 2011 sc2, it was just organizations and sponsors investing just to be there in case sc2 would become as big in the world as BW was in Korea. There absolutely no return on investment plans, just dreams and "if"s. But sc2 never grew as big as dreamed, sponsors left and the whole thing collapsed. see MLG for instance. In conlucison :Foreign scene was almost dead due to lack of money and long term sustainbility, the new system is trying to fix this, and it will work if the show is good and viewers get hooked to it. It's a bet as well as a desperate move, but it has to be tried. If it works, no worries teams like the old EG will come back, and we'll see team houses and sponsors getting involved, but this time on a solid basis, not on a the gold rush crasiness that was 2010-2011... Were foreigners winning? They were. That was my point. Honestly, I don't hate EG, I think that they did what is good economic model. They used the scene of SC2 when it was in their interest(ROI was there) and then they stopped. That's OK, but since they were the biggest foreigner team out there, is this what we want? (also I don't buy the Blizzard saving nonsense, this is more or less ICU, they had to cancel WCS league, which is huge, but everybody is insane about saving foreigner scene...) Show nested quote +On February 25 2016 07:32 Luolis wrote:On February 25 2016 01:01 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2016 00:54 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 25 2016 00:35 deacon.frost wrote:On February 24 2016 11:24 SinO[Ob] wrote:On February 24 2016 11:16 Ensiferum8 wrote:On February 24 2016 10:19 Prodigy311 wrote:
i love that all the sc2 elitists that probably play at a diamond level that are boycotting wcs because it doesn't have koreans. i don't think i've ever seen such a senseless crusade, almost as if you actually want the game to die so you can be the only one in the world who cares about it. why should a bunch of a koreans shit on america and eu when the vast majority of americans and europeons want to know who the best american and eu players are? please feel free to miss all the incredible games. you do realize we will get to see WORLDS at blizzcon and w/e wcs events are global. get your panties unbundled and appreciate the fact that we're not watching some korean b teamers win dreamhacks and iems pushing away loads of casual viewers. honestly we were over saturated with global play and it takes away from how special it really is. there's a reason why the world cup isn't played for every 3 months.
keep those tears coming, they're icing on the cake of finally figuring out who the best is in each region! Im maybe ''elitist'' but what casual plebs like you dont understand is that what we want is something fair. As far as i know, korean are not born with 6 fingers, 3 hands, or other stuff that would gave them a natural advantage. They just work harder, train harder, pratice harder and consequently, become better at the game. Its completly unfair to ban someone from a tournament because he is better. THATS senseless. Doing a local tournament only is fine exemple: only america. Or only people from europe can participate, thats fine too. But banning 1 country, 1 single country from every tournament simply because they are too good? Thats outright stupid. But yeah, fun fact, im quite sure the game will die way faster with the new rule, since a lot of hardcore that support the game since forever will not watch these tournaments, and casual will come and go, like they often always do. But yeah, keep calling us elitist, while showing no sign of understanding at all whats unfair in all of that. Korean training environement vs foreigners training environement. Which is the best? When every player will be equal on that I will consider the unfair part. Until then maybe its a bit too harsh but come on let the foreigner scene develop itself for 1 or 2 years and old system will be back. Just let the foreigners players gaigning some confidence with BIG titles. Its good for the players/team/scene. BULLSHIT! Foreigner teams were winning huge piles of money at the beginning of SC2. Maybe you were not here, maybe you do not remember, but there were times when Stephano, HuK, Idra, Jinro, Naniwa, Thorzain(and others) were considered as the one who will pick the trophey. Half of these players were on EG. EG won fuck ton of money and where did those money end? It doesn't look like letting foreigners win everything in the beginning help, but hey, let's try it again, maybe NOW it will work when it didn't work before. I am sick of this BS. Let the foreigner scene develop - what was it doing at the start?! Where is EG SC2 team now? EG had the best lineup for 3 consecutive years! 2010 - 2013 At least Team Liquid still has relevant team. But not everyone out there is TL, right? The true Korean dominance started in the late 2012, check premier tournaments on TL.net. So, I think it's fair to say that this "experiment" will fail plainly because of our experience from past years(when SC2 was actually the top esport, btw). If anything, this shit was done because many tournaments/organizers went for no SC2 approach and Blizzard wanted to stop that, so they invented this BS. Probably. I would really appreciate official release from Blizzard, but then again, they cannot say their product is shit and nobody wanted to air that, so I won't ever see it... Please you can argue without calling "shit" different opinions. Have some respect. Thank you. Why Foreigners had a dominant time early in SC2? Because they had the same start. Unfortunatly, Korean practice environement is better in a lot of way, so year after year a gap was create. And Im sorry expect Stephano who really was dominant for a certain era, the other foreigners had big times but waaaay more ponctual. I mean do you see any foreign team compete in SPL seriously? No. And then ask why? Well If it is not training environement, we have to state that every foreigners are lazyass players. You just play the game casually I guess. Where is the difference?! Really, give me proper reasons instead of general PR. Foreigners were winning most of the tournaments outside of Korea for 2 years, 2 whole years, and it didn't even matter. No. Foreigners were not winning most of the tournaments outside of korea for 2 years. Like what have you sniffed? 2010 - 7 premier tournaments outside of Korea - 6 Wins of foreigners. 2011 - 21 - 11. If we add 2 tourneys without location, it's 23/13 so for this 2 years we have 28(30) - 17(19) If that's not the bigger part I don't know what is. From 2012 we can date the Korean dominance - 34(35) - 8. That's the start of the "invasion". And I am too lazy to do this for major tournaments, but 2011 is full of nonKorean flags too. But hey, I used numbers, I am evil
Im sorry, what? Looking at premier tournaments in liquipedia its 17-15 for foreigners. Thats definitely not "most non-korean tournaments" wtf m7
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This is what i wanted to see without the "foreigners only at weekend tournaments" part to make it happen.
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Also holy hell the salt in this thread
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On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread
It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe.
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On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe.
I'm so gonna check if that's true now.
Edit: Wow, looks pretty cool. I'd love to visit that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine
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On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight.
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On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight.
Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow.
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On March 01 2016 02:55 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight. Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow.
If you ever do that, make sure to buy tickets in advance. Today I thought that I could drop by only to find it completely sold out.
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On March 01 2016 02:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:55 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight. Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow. If you ever do that, make sure to buy tickets in advance. Today I thought that I could drop by only to find it completely sold out.
Damn, too bad, will do.
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On March 01 2016 02:57 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2016 02:55 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:52 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:49 Musicus wrote:On March 01 2016 02:47 opisska wrote:On March 01 2016 02:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Also holy hell the salt in this thread It's understandable, not far from Katowice is one of the largest deep salt mines in Europe. I'm so gonna check if that's true now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieliczka_Salt_Mine - looks touristy, but we were there and it was awesome. The transport in the actual mining lifts is the highlight. Awesome. Maybe if I can one day make the trip to IEM Katowice, I can combine it with this and Krakow. If you ever do that, make sure to buy tickets in advance. Today I thought that I could drop by only to find it completely sold out.
not sure about tickets for specific days, but those 3-day tickets were sold out MINUTES after the wave was released.
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On February 24 2016 02:30 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2016 02:24 `sawyer wrote:On February 24 2016 02:21 oGoZenob wrote:
I dont get the hate. You know that it's posible to have a good show even when not at the very best level ? i mean, i'll be super excited to see maru vs life, and i'm also super excited about drogo vs dayshi. I just love this game, not only players that wins GSLs.
I mean, the more exciting game i saw this past month is a RO128 qualifier game between Bly and a mid-gm french guy named Masterbonsai Maybe you should try finding some silver league replays for download. I'm sure you would have a blast watching those do you absolutely have to be a dick ?
well, he's correct.. if you did find that match so enjoying you obviously dont know about the game and just got hyped by casters or the closeness of the result.
its not very impressive to watch volleyball amateurs playing a really really really close game with hype commentary if they cant even reach there hands over net height when they try to do a spike...
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Polt vs 
Lambo
PtitDrogo vs 
EPT
