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On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things.
Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack.
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On January 23 2016 04:30 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things. Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack.
We'll see, adepts not 2-shotting marines and workers could become a huge deal in TvP. Of course, it doesn't do anything to the strength of adepts against Zerg. But then, Zerg has a lot of ways to hurt Protoss, especially with an overcharge nerf.
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I was really hoping for siege tanks to be strong again.
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On January 23 2016 04:03 Wildmoon wrote:
wow they are ignoring tanks in TvP.
Mech is working as intended. It does not exist. 
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On January 23 2016 04:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:Mech is working as intended. It does not exist.
I can't believe I for a second thought they actually wanted for mech to exist...
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On January 23 2016 04:30 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things. Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack.
It means you can skip marauder much more against the early adept pressures, as the marines are killed much slower. The marines deal with the adepts much better with higher dps and lesser cost. Besides with less gas put into marauders you can tech way faster to liberators, tanks and other useful units, as opposed to the marauder that pretty much sucks against anything but stalkers right now.
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On January 23 2016 04:39 WrathSCII wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 04:37 Sapphire.lux wrote:On January 23 2016 04:03 Wildmoon wrote:
wow they are ignoring tanks in TvP. Mech is working as intended. It does not exist. I can't believe I for a second thought they actually wanted for mech to exist...
All the PR for both HOTS and LOTV for Terran was about this. So, you have an excuse to believe it. Usually big companies like this don't lie.
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On January 23 2016 04:40 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 04:30 Vanadiel wrote:On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things. Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack. It means you can skip marauder much more against the early adept pressures, as the marines are killed much slower. The marines deal with the adepts much better with higher dps and lesser cost. Besides with less gas put into marauders you can tech way faster to liberators, tanks and other useful units, as opposed to the marauder that pretty much sucks against anything but stalkers right now.
Nobody is making many marau nowadays anyway
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On January 23 2016 03:51 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 03:44 Bohemond wrote:
Well this is logical and well thought out.
Can't wait to see what happens to Protoss winrates if they roll this out as is. I wonder if they'll go below 0%?
Protoss 100% relies on the strength of Adepts and PO to be competitive. Once those crutches are gone the race will go into free-fall. This has been my viewpoint since ~August.
The Adept nerf might be a blessing in disguise, if Protoss win rates fall noticeably after this the balance team might be more to apt to start discussing possible buffs to the old school GW units, Stalkers could definitely use some kind of a research passive that gives them viability going into the late game and Zealots are totally overshadowed by Adepts.
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On January 23 2016 03:44 BronzeKnee wrote:
Ya know what we need so bad, is for Photon Overcharge to be removed from the game. So badly. I play Protoss and I hate it, I despise, have since HOTS. It just drains the skill out of the early game.
It used to take real skill to hold early attacks, used to have to build units and position them properly to defend drops. It used to be fun to defend early timings. Now, no one can attack Protoss save some gimmicky aggression via early Overlord Drops, Oracles and Adepts or Widow Mines and Liberators.
PO and the MSC just need to go. And then the gimmicky aggression can be removed too! We can get Widow Mine drops out of the game too.
We just need to talk about that more, much more, maybe Blizzard will listen.
Maybe I'm just dreaming...
Same here regarding to mech.
Flying tanks have the least amount of impact on that matchup IMO.
I'm talking about the Tank buff. They are only considering it as a compensate for the loss of Medivac-Tank compo instead of actually acknowledging that this unit is so weak. As if the tank is completely fine to have 0 use in that match up.
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Rename ZvZ to MvM!
Hadn't they already nerfed spore damage vs bio before the game came out? PB is now also no real option vs muta flocks anymore with only 60 dmg.
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Austria24420 Posts
Stop double nerfing things. Learn your lesson already.
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On January 23 2016 04:49 Leviance wrote:
Rename ZvZ to MvM!
Hadn't they already nerfed spore damage vs bio before the game came out? PB is now also no real option vs muta flocks anymore with only 60 dmg.
I mean you realize it did 90 before? If you launch 3 PB's it's going to kill the muta's just like before (Mutas have 120 health right?). Might require 1 extra viper instead of 2 (due to health regen)
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On January 23 2016 04:42 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 04:40 Nebuchad wrote:On January 23 2016 04:30 Vanadiel wrote:On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things. Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack. It means you can skip marauder much more against the early adept pressures, as the marines are killed much slower. The marines deal with the adepts much better with higher dps and lesser cost. Besides with less gas put into marauders you can tech way faster to liberators, tanks and other useful units, as opposed to the marauder that pretty much sucks against anything but stalkers right now. Nobody is making many marau nowadays anyway
Further displaying that this is the way to go. Getting a buff to "the way to go" is likely to improve things.
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Ravager getting armored tag when? I hope they take their time this patch doesn't look good at all.
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On January 23 2016 04:40 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 04:30 Vanadiel wrote:On January 23 2016 03:39 KeksX wrote:On January 23 2016 03:38 Asturas wrote:
So... Adept is nerfed or not, because I am very, very (extremely?) confused. What kind of change is that? Is it at all? Damn Blizz... Yes. They no longer 2-shot workers, instead it takes 3. This means they're weaker on the harrassment side of things. Is this really the main issue though? I always felt that it was how good they were in fight which was the bigger problem, by shading directly into the enemy army. I would have liked some kind nerf to the shade, something like adept can't attack for one second after they shade somewhere, or it consume a bit of shield like stimpack. It means you can skip marauder much more against the early adept pressures, as the marines are killed much slower. The marines deal with the adepts much better with higher dps and lesser cost. Besides with less gas put into marauders you can tech way faster to liberators, tanks and other useful units, as opposed to the marauder that pretty much sucks against anything but stalkers right now.
Marauders didn't die to adepts, but they couldn't stop them from killing workers, so we didn't really see lots of them built. This change doesn't change that existing relationship or existing builds with regard to marauders, really. Armored adept would have changed them drastically.
On January 23 2016 04:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Stop double nerfing things. Learn your lesson already.
If this complaint is directed at PvT, they should have patched in the PO change the first week of January. They can't afford to wait and risk repeating the first half of 2014 again, especially with only 2 GSLs/SSLs a year.
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On January 23 2016 03:58 Bohemond wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2016 03:51 DinoMight wrote:On January 23 2016 03:44 Bohemond wrote:
Well this is logical and well thought out.
Can't wait to see what happens to Protoss winrates if they roll this out as is. I wonder if they'll go below 0%?
Protoss 100% relies on the strength of Adepts and PO to be competitive. Once those crutches are gone the race will go into free-fall. This has been my viewpoint since ~August. Not to put you down or anything because we agree 100%, but, like, isn't that obvious? I mean, PO is used nearly every game, so is the Adept. It'd be like a bunker nerf or Marine nerf without something thrown in to compensate... How can anyone not notice...?
Judging by the patch... no, it's not obvious.
They look at it like the game is imbalanced so fix Protoss.
It's always been my view that Protoss is actually super under powered in LotV and that the Adept is just masking that fact. Once they nerf it it won't just "balance" the game. Protoss will. Get. Rekt.
You can just feel how behind you are in the games you DONT open Adept. I'm crushing Masters Terrans with Adept cheese and struggling to beat Diamonds if I don't make Adepts.
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The adept nerf is not enough. A single attack upgrade negates the whole nerf.
Something more needs to go either
1) Make the shade an upgrade
2) Decrease hit points.
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Here are my bold predictions:
1. Protoss will die even harder to Ravager pushes.
2. Adepts remain extremely strong in TvP and Terran still can't punish Protoss greed whatsoever.
3. Consequently this patch solves absolutely nothing at all.
Crazy bold, I know. I'm reckless.
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On January 23 2016 05:01 MockHamill wrote:
The adept nerf is not enough. A single attack upgrade negates the whole nerf.
Something more needs to go either
1) Make the shade an upgrade
2) Decrease hit points.
The nerf makes it take 2 hits to kill a Marine instead of 3 until the marine has combat shields. By the time Protoss has +1 weapons, Marines should have combat shields. Therefore even +1 weapons doesn't change Adept efficiency against marines.
Furthermore with Marines' short speed attack, any extra time alive that a Marine gets = more dps.
This will make them way stronger vs Adepts even though on the surface the actual damage reduction is minimal.
It's the same reason that a Colossus nerf of 20-30% has made them suck by 50% or so. You need 50% more to twice as many shots to kill units. The actual damage doesn't really matter.
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EPT
