EPTYep, SC2 gameplay is a shell of what it was in 2011.
SC2's shrinking talent pool: stuchiu on ESPN - Page 8
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
Yep, SC2 gameplay is a shell of what it was in 2011. | ||
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alukarD
Mexico396 Posts
So back in the day, people enjoyed and assisted to underground gigs with actual DJs mixing up the music and really putting up a show where nobody else would ever know but the small amount of people the were actually there. DJing was really a thing back then, and people loved and really enjoyed the result of it, remembering those parties as the best ones they ever had, where it was all about the sounds, the music, the feels, the interaction with the people around them inside that room. Regardless, it was a very smallish scene. Average people just wouldn't appreciate that as an experience they wanted, they couldn't appreciate the art and beauty of it. Now, we got the EDM scene. Electronic festivals are the biggest they ever were, and they keep getting bigger. Everybody has friends that are a DJ, or at least trying to be one. Hardcore old-school-electronic lovers hate the EDM scene, because they focus on everything but the actual music or DJing, that's not what it used to be or it should be (some points they usually tend to argue about). I totally get it. Funny thing is that people also claim that actual house/trance/disco/insert-any-electronic-genre-here is dying. I don't actual think is dying, but when you put that scene against the new EDM 500-times-bigger scene, you can't help but feel that too. So, as someone else pointed out before, I also think that also this really goes around social medias, internet, connection, exposure. This is a social problem (I don't know if problem is the right word): people go/do where/what other people is going/doing. All my friends go to the EDM festival, I want to be there. My friends are playing at gigs and producing their own material, seems pretty easy, I should try it out. More than enjoying being at the festival or being a DJ, they enjoy being around people, being recognized, socializing, and it's cool to be there and do that, and simple to understand: everybody knows the material (songs), everybody know what a DJ is or does (at a high-level), everybody knows what EDM festivals are, so its easy to relate, its easy to appreciate somebody's work, its easy to go watch someone play. Simpler and bigger is what attracts people, and well, eventually turns into a scene. That's why there aren't so many engineers (I got to admit it's getting bigger tho), why people don't visit Alaska, why people don't play the harp,why people don't play Starcraft. A social phenomenon. Well, no real solutions I came up with. But you can get to your own conclusions. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
Somebody at Blizzard is to blame, but it's not the esports dept., it's the designers. Every expansion has made SC2 worse, not better, because they have no idea what to do. Before Starcraft 2, Starcraft (Brood War) was by far the strongest esports community and with good reason. Blizzard tended to that community like a medieval doctor. Today, Starcraft 2 is not even close to being the strongest competitive game community anymore, and with good reason. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
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ivancype
Brazil485 Posts
If you cant pay your pro players enough that they need to participate in online cups, that is why there is no one new to the scene. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 21 2016 20:30 Gwavajuice wrote: Why is football (soccer) still so popular? It's not because of Messi or Ronaldo, it's not because the premier league is crazy rich, it's because wherever you go in the world you give 2 kids a ball and they start to kick and play and they love it. Our concern should not be about sc2 living as an esport but sc2 being fun and enjoyable to play as a game. BW became an esport and was so succesful because korean kids were playing SC in PC bangs, not the other way around. The appeal of playing at a PC bang is playing with your friends. MOBA will always be better for playing with your friends than SC2, no matter what changes Blizzard implements. "Oh no we came with 5 people, are we going to play two 1v1s, one of which will take 20 minutes while the other takes 40 minutes, while the fifth guy just sits alone, or... all jump into the same MOBA and play on the same team and bond as we kill the other guys?" Maybe Battle.net sucking ass didn't help in terms of UMS. But that's about all of the blame that can be placed at Blizzard's feet on the issue of SC2 not dominating PC bangs aka the hearts and minds of the next generation. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On January 22 2016 01:39 pure.Wasted wrote: The appeal of playing at a PC bang is playing with your friends. MOBA will always be better for playing with your friends than SC2, no matter what changes Blizzard implements. "Oh no we came with 5 people, are we going to play two 1v1s, one of which will take 20 minutes while the other takes 40 minutes, while the fifth guy just sits alone, or... all jump into the same MOBA and play on the same team and bond as we kill the other guys?" Maybe Battle.net sacking ass didn't help in terms of UMS. But that's about all of the blame that can be placed at Blizzard's feet on the issue of SC2 not dominating PC bangs aka the hearts and minds of the next generation. Wait wait, you've never played 2v2/3v3/4v4 Starcraft before? Never played an FFA? Starcraft is perfectly capable of accommodating a group of friends, that is not the issue. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 22 2016 01:45 BaronVonOwn wrote: Wait wait, you've never played 2v2/3v3/4v4 Starcraft before? Never played an FFA? Starcraft is perfectly capable of accommodating a group of friends, that is not the issue. That's the difference. Sc2 can accommodate a group of friends. MOBAs were made from the ground up for a group of friends. SC2 is tennis and MOBA is soccer. | ||
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ErectedZenith
325 Posts
On January 22 2016 01:48 pure.Wasted wrote: That's the difference. Sc2 can accommodate a group of friends. MOBAs were made from the ground up for a group of friends. SC2 is tennis and MOBA is soccer. SC2 was suppose to have an arcade system where the creator of the custom games can sell their product and get monetary compensation while continuously having a ladder for competitive play. But Blizzard didn't implement the pay to play arcade mode which lost casual audience and then they dumbed down the ladder which lost hyper competitive players. Blizzard don't know what they are doing in terms of growing esport. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
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jtp118
United States137 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:39 LastManProductions wrote: If people keep saying SC2 will die, it will die. The game died in late 2011 / early 2012; very few new pros since then, player base declining, expansions didn't bring players back, etc. Blizz failed with Bnet, failed with social integration, failed with balance (especially in mid-HotS). SC2 still exists but will continue to decline. At this point Halo qualifiers have more viewers than SC2 qualifiers (with 343 throwing less way money at Halo than Blizz is throwing at SC2). | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On January 22 2016 03:04 jtp118 wrote: The game died in late 2011 / early 2012; very few new pros since then, player base declining, expansions didn't bring players back, etc. Blizz failed with Bnet, failed with social integration, failed with balance (especially in mid-HotS). SC2 still exists but will continue to decline. At this point Halo qualifiers have more viewers than SC2 qualifiers (with 343 throwing less way money at Halo than Blizz is throwing at SC2). What exactly do you mean when you say the game died four years ago? Still today you can play ladder at any time of day and match against someone better than you within minutes. And if you happen to be really good at the game, you'll be flown out to tournaments all year and can play in front of live crowds and win a lot of money. So competitively, it's still doing well. Strategically, there's a ton of stuff to figure out in every matchup and different things to figure out on every map. How to use certain units is still being figured out. And mechanics can always be improved. So gameplay-wise, it's still doing well. For viewers, there are still more games being played than the vast majority of fans even have time to watch. And those games still contain top-notch mechanics and strategy and tactics and new things. I really don't understand how a player of the game or a viewer of tournaments can feel like it's dead right now. We must be thinking of completely different things, especially if it's been dead for four years. How does looking at viewer numbers affect any of these things? Let the people who have to worry about that worry about that and enjoy the game while it's alive, which won't be forever, while it still has plenty to offer. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
The Koreans will be fine cause they will go back to Broodwar, but the foreigners are boned cause they simply dont have the skill or desire to be good at something. The wheel will eventually turn full circle and Broodwar will surpass SC2in players and viewers, until its time to call it a day and play something else entirely. | ||
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madness1
21 Posts
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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ddayzy
259 Posts
On January 22 2016 03:31 NonY wrote: What exactly do you mean when you say the game died four years ago? Still today you can play ladder at any time of day and match against someone better than you within minutes. And if you happen to be really good at the game, you'll be flown out to tournaments all year and can play in front of live crowds and win a lot of money. So competitively, it's still doing well. Strategically, there's a ton of stuff to figure out in every matchup and different things to figure out on every map. How to use certain units is still being figured out. And mechanics can always be improved. So gameplay-wise, it's still doing well. For viewers, there are still more games being played than the vast majority of fans even have time to watch. And those games still contain top-notch mechanics and strategy and tactics and new things. I really don't understand how a player of the game or a viewer of tournaments can feel like it's dead right now. We must be thinking of completely different things, especially if it's been dead for four years. How does looking at viewer numbers affect any of these things? Let the people who have to worry about that worry about that and enjoy the game while it's alive, which won't be forever, while it still has plenty to offer. Like a lot of terms commonly used online it, dead game, has lost most of it's meaning and is just another buzzword people use to trash games they don't like. I imagin most people using it in this thread didn't like a design decision made by Blizzard at some point and now they want to point their finger and say "Hah should have done the thing I wanted, you didn't and now your game is dead!". I wish human beings were better at live and let live. If you no longer like something let it go, don't hang around like vultures waiting for a oportunity to go "told you so!". | ||
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Ppjack
Belgium489 Posts
Not balancing the game properly and making nothing attractive for casual player is another good reason for the community being not that big anymore (try being 10+ season in master league with no professional ambition in this game, and tell me why you should even log into the game more than few times a week) | ||
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ddayzy
259 Posts
On January 22 2016 04:50 Ppjack wrote: Constantly shiting on foreign progamers and downgrading any of their achievement will for sure shrink the sc2 pool of competitive players. They know they are not flash but they are shown less respect than korean c-teamers. Not balancing the game properly and making nothing attractive for casual player is another good reason for the community being not that big anymore (try being 10+ season in master league with no professional ambition in this game, and tell me why you should even log into the game more than few times a week) Because you enjoy playing it? It is the reason I do it. Comparativly speaking the foreign pros are not very good. The Koreans are simply better, should we pretend this is not the case to stroke some peoples egos? When I watch Starcraft I want to watch the best but the best are now barred from competing outside of Korea which is why I only watch Korean torunaments. | ||
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Ppjack
Belgium489 Posts
On January 22 2016 04:57 ddayzy wrote: Because you enjoy playing it? It is the reason I do it. Comparativly speaking the foreign pros are not very good. The Koreans are simply better, should we pretend this is not the case to stroke some peoples egos? When I watch Starcraft I want to watch the best but the best are now barred from competing outside of Korea which is why I only watch Korean torunaments. Reasons i could play when i am bored of 1v1 is to play with friends, even if the arcade can be fun it is not at the level it could be in warcraft3, or the team games are not as fun as they were in aok. They could have tried anything incentitive for players to log in, as daily quests for skins, voice pack, whatever i don't know haha  As for the korean scene being the only one worth watching, it is like in any sport. There is no way that a sport is growing and healthy if you don't take care of the less performing scenes and the amateur scene, where the future stars come from. And in a general way, having this constant downgrading and posh behaviour will no help professional players outside of Korea to want to keep playing. Recognition is more than half the reason why you invest your time in any competitive sport. Money maybe, but being as good as you can be and getting recognition for it is the essence of competitive play. And they are shown near noone by a lot of people in these forums. | ||
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madness1
21 Posts
On January 22 2016 04:50 Ppjack wrote: Constantly shiting on foreign progamers... That's why... | ||
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