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On January 22 2016 06:58 Ppjack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:
[quote]
I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1.
Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments.
The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament.
The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man  I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference? The system is believed to be an incentitive for foreigners to go pro. Then few events should be there to mesure the best foreigners with koreans. What do you not like ? I really liked the old WCS system, but it was just not fair that players profiting from it where not helping the foreign scene (barely playing on the ladder, flying to korea to prepare, ...) It was welfare for them since they profit from high training environment and come to foreignland to take the money. Now at least something is done and tried. Don't know if it is going to work, but it is done.
This is bizzaro-logic, what you are saying makes no sense. The best players winning tournaments is welfare because they are training with the best players whaaaaaa..?
The definition of welfare is receiving financial aid from the government or from a private organization because of hardship and need.
How on Gods green earth can you make that definition fit with what you jsut said?
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On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:On January 22 2016 05:05 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 04:57 ddayzy wrote:
[quote]
Because you enjoy playing it? It is the reason I do it.
Comparativly speaking the foreign pros are not very good. The Koreans are simply better, should we pretend this is not the case to stroke some peoples egos? When I watch Starcraft I want to watch the best but the best are now barred from competing outside of Korea which is why I only watch Korean torunaments.
Reasons i could play when i am bored of 1v1 is to play with friends, even if the arcade can be fun it is not at the level it could be in warcraft3, or the team games are not as fun as they were in aok. They could have tried anything incentitive for players to log in, as daily quests for skins, voice pack, whatever i don't know haha As for the korean scene being the only one worth watching, it is like in any sport. There is no way that a sport is growing and healthy if you don't take care of the less performing scenes and the amateur scene, where the future stars come from. And in a general way, having this constant downgrading and posh behaviour will no help professional players outside of Korea to want to keep playing. Recognition is more than half the reason why you invest your time in any competitive sport. Money maybe, but being as good as you can be and getting recognition for it is the essence of competitive play. And they are shown near noone by a lot of people in these forums. I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1. Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments. The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament. The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really?
Did I stutter?
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Thing is, why would people want to play a game that is - (I'm ignorant of LoL and DOTA2 for the most point, because I find MOBAs extremely boring to play - I've played 6/7 LoL games and that's it - so forgive any ignorance and arrogance I have when it comes to them) - harder to play, less accessible, more difficult competition wise, and isn't supported as much by it's developer as LoL?
This reminds me of a similar thing that happened with the UT2004 community. With the advent of an "easier" gametype, the traditional, more difficult and brutal gametypes were bereft of new players, and eventually the competitive community, even if it was 600 players strong worldwide, died.
The problem might not necessarily be the WCS system - it might simply be that the Starcraft gameplay we all know and love might be falling out of popularity with the masses in favour of the streamlined nature of MOBAs - and soon FPSMOBAs like Overwatch and Battleborn. Brood War Afreeca viewership doesn't necessarily support this, however.
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On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:On January 22 2016 05:05 Ppjack wrote:[quote] Reasons i could play when i am bored of 1v1 is to play with friends, even if the arcade can be fun it is not at the level it could be in warcraft3, or the team games are not as fun as they were in aok. They could have tried anything incentitive for players to log in, as daily quests for skins, voice pack, whatever i don't know haha As for the korean scene being the only one worth watching, it is like in any sport. There is no way that a sport is growing and healthy if you don't take care of the less performing scenes and the amateur scene, where the future stars come from. And in a general way, having this constant downgrading and posh behaviour will no help professional players outside of Korea to want to keep playing. Recognition is more than half the reason why you invest your time in any competitive sport. Money maybe, but being as good as you can be and getting recognition for it is the essence of competitive play. And they are shown near noone by a lot of people in these forums. I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1. Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments. The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament. The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference?
Then I guess I can sit over here and call it unfair that the Europeans don't have a respective "Kespa" system, with salaries and Televised team matches and team houses. I think there's a flip side to every situation and if you really want to complain, you can find something.
So yeah, I see your point, but it doesn't make a fan a racist because they support WCS 2016. I supported WCS 2013 in a time where basically any Korean could come to America, and they did, because frankly I love the game and always will.
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On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:On January 22 2016 05:05 Ppjack wrote:[quote] Reasons i could play when i am bored of 1v1 is to play with friends, even if the arcade can be fun it is not at the level it could be in warcraft3, or the team games are not as fun as they were in aok. They could have tried anything incentitive for players to log in, as daily quests for skins, voice pack, whatever i don't know haha As for the korean scene being the only one worth watching, it is like in any sport. There is no way that a sport is growing and healthy if you don't take care of the less performing scenes and the amateur scene, where the future stars come from. And in a general way, having this constant downgrading and posh behaviour will no help professional players outside of Korea to want to keep playing. Recognition is more than half the reason why you invest your time in any competitive sport. Money maybe, but being as good as you can be and getting recognition for it is the essence of competitive play. And they are shown near noone by a lot of people in these forums. I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1. Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments. The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament. The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter?
lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it.
as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016.
have fun claiming i'm racist though
moral indignation can allow you to walk around with the feeling you're better than everyone.
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On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:
[quote]
I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1.
Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments.
The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament.
The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though
I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself
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On January 22 2016 07:15 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:01 ddayzy wrote:
[quote]
I don't really need that. I have so many other repsonsibilities I don't have much time to play this days which i probably part of why I never got bored of 1v1. If you have a lot of free time you want to spend on it I guess you might need more then just 1v1.
Really? I'm norwegian, I would never dream of watching norwegian football but that's not really having any negative impact on english football which I love to watch. I doubt the Korean scene would crumble if it got more money and more torunaments.
The amature scene in korea is impossible to support because Blizzard prefer to hand it out to foreign players. I'm not saying money would solve everything but at least it would make it viable. I would prefer that to handing it out to a worse scene whos main representative could not be assed to train for the years biggest tournament.
The new system is more or less a handout by Blizzard to less deserving players. You should get prizes because you are good not because the best players were not allowed to compete. It would be like having a separat Champions League in which only scandinavian and latvian teams could play. I can't imagin it feels good as a competative player knowing you are only winning because people better then you were not allowed to participate. How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching. Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing. In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent. They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch? Money is there, because transfers are allowed. This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that. The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic. If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit. Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference? Then I guess I can sit over here and call it unfair that the Europeans don't have a respective "Kespa" system, with salaries and Televised team matches and team houses. I think there's a flip side to every situation and if you really want to complain, you can find something. So yeah, I see your point, but it doesn't make a fan a racist because they support WCS 2016. I supported WCS 2013 in a time where basically any Korean could come to America, and they did, because frankly I love the game and always will.
First, Blizzard didn't gift Kespa, infrastructure or televised matches to the Koreans. They built it on their own. So trying to make fairness by demanding Blizzard to gift it to Europeans seems a bit ridiculous to me.
And I didn't call you racist! I don't believe people nor Blizzard is being racist. I just responded because you were defending yourself from the racist acusations with arguments that -for me- were wrong.
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On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:
Did I stutter?
There's supporting the current WCS system, which I and many others don't do. Then there's being a racist, which he and I don't do(as far as I know). Then there's being an asshole, which I know for sure you've done. All different things.
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On January 22 2016 07:24 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:15 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:
[quote]
How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching.
Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing.
In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent.
They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch?
Money is there, because transfers are allowed.
This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that.
The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic.
If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit.
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference? Then I guess I can sit over here and call it unfair that the Europeans don't have a respective "Kespa" system, with salaries and Televised team matches and team houses. I think there's a flip side to every situation and if you really want to complain, you can find something. So yeah, I see your point, but it doesn't make a fan a racist because they support WCS 2016. I supported WCS 2013 in a time where basically any Korean could come to America, and they did, because frankly I love the game and always will. First, Blizzard didn't gift Kespa, infrastructure or televised matches to the Koreans. They built it on their own. So trying to make fairness by demanding Blizzard to gift it to Europeans seems a bit ridiculous to me. And I didn't call you racist! I don't believe people nor Blizzard is being racist. I just responded because you were defending yourself from the racist acusations with arguments that -for me- were wrong.
No you didn't. I did, because that's exactly what they are
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On January 22 2016 07:24 NewSunshine wrote:There's supporting the current WCS system, which I and many others don't do. Then there's being a racist, which he and I don't do(as far as I know). Then there's being an asshole, which I know for sure you've done. All different things.
You're actively supporting a system that bars players from one nation competing freely because they're better than your boys. That is racist, how you choose to justify that racism is irrelevant
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On January 22 2016 07:25 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:24 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 07:15 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:
[quote]
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference? Then I guess I can sit over here and call it unfair that the Europeans don't have a respective "Kespa" system, with salaries and Televised team matches and team houses. I think there's a flip side to every situation and if you really want to complain, you can find something. So yeah, I see your point, but it doesn't make a fan a racist because they support WCS 2016. I supported WCS 2013 in a time where basically any Korean could come to America, and they did, because frankly I love the game and always will. First, Blizzard didn't gift Kespa, infrastructure or televised matches to the Koreans. They built it on their own. So trying to make fairness by demanding Blizzard to gift it to Europeans seems a bit ridiculous to me. And I didn't call you racist! I don't believe people nor Blizzard is being racist. I just responded because you were defending yourself from the racist acusations with arguments that -for me- were wrong. No you didn't. I did, because that's exactly what they are
It's just a word, sometimes misused, but the important thing is that we can keep the discussion going. Although you are being a bit provocative and I can smell a warning coming your way 
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If anything having koreans in other regions helped at least to increase the lvl of practice they had
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On January 22 2016 07:03 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 06:58 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:52 Silvana wrote:On January 22 2016 06:46 Ctone23 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:
[quote]
How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching.
Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing.
In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent.
They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch?
Money is there, because transfers are allowed.
This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that.
The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic.
If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit.
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. So we shouldn't cheer for our favorite player if they happen to be foreigner because they are essentially being "gifted"? I see this "racism" rhetoric popping up a lot recently and quite frankly if you feel that strongly about it, Blizzard is the company to talk to. Blizzard is the one who changed the system, just because I want to see Bunny or Uthermal do really well this year doesn't make me a racist at all and I'm getting sick of that term being thrown around so lightly. There's a difference between cheering for a player a supporting an unfair system that helps said player. I love Bunny and Snute for example, and I'm kinda happy they're gonna do better this year with the new system, but I still can think the system is wrong in some fundamentals and unfair. Do you see the difference? The system is believed to be an incentitive for foreigners to go pro. Then few events should be there to mesure the best foreigners with koreans. What do you not like ? I really liked the old WCS system, but it was just not fair that players profiting from it where not helping the foreign scene (barely playing on the ladder, flying to korea to prepare, ...) It was welfare for them since they profit from high training environment and come to foreignland to take the money. Now at least something is done and tried. Don't know if it is going to work, but it is done. This is bizzaro-logic, what you are saying makes no sense. The best players winning tournaments is welfare because they are training with the best players whaaaaaa..? The definition of welfare is receiving financial aid from the government or from a private organization because of hardship and need. How on Gods green earth can you make that definition fit with what you jsut said?
I used this word by analogy with the welfare-foreigner-wcs term that is used.
Don't be so picky. You know I mean that it was unfair since the chances given are not equal given the korean environment being way better for players to practice. When there is no equality of chances, the system is flawed.
That is where the state usually comes into play, and try adjusting it by injecting inputs and positive-discrimination in the system.
It is what has been done with the current wcs system by blizzard.
Private organisations are still chosing their own rules it is up to them.
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On January 22 2016 07:01 Footler wrote:
Some comments on ESPN and here seem to miss the point of the article. Yes it stated that the region locking screws over Korean players but it isn't necessarily saying the change should be reverted but rather the Korean scene needs something to replace the overseas tournaments to foster growth. If the region lock had been announced alongside some sort of new ESV-esque tournament or various other sources for low-mid tier Koreans to possibly transition and break into the top level then the article would have a bit of a different tone.
I still think the region locking is dumb regardless of circumstance but I can see how it could benefit the scene in the long run if it didn't completely screw over the Korean scene. Outside of a few tournaments the most memorable ones have been because of the Korean players. It all just seems so strange.
This is exactly on point. There is no compensation for the koreans and everything good in WCS 2016 is for the foreigners. Sad when it was possible to do something for both scenes.
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On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:13 Ppjack wrote:
[quote]
How can you even write they are less deserving ? Are you part of the "foreigners lazy" complainers? In terms of results they are less deserving, that is why they did not get the trophies. But they are full time professionals. The only reason they are not on the same level as koreans is mainly about practice environment, regular leagues and support they get with good salaries, opportunities and coaching.
Even if I am the most hyped for foreigners competing and upseting koreans, I can see what Blizzard is trying to achieve by region locking the whole thing.
In let's say football, the scandinavian scene is followed as any other league in terms of scouting, then when a player is found to be good he is transfered in a team that can pay him, train him, and profit from his talent.
They just join leagues where the money is. Have you heard of teams like Chelsea of PSG almost created from scratch?
Money is there, because transfers are allowed.
This system is not in place with starcraft. If korean was the mainland of starcraft esport with teams that would transfer the very best players from all around the world to make them compete, I would not mind that.
The reality is that korean esport is totally autarcic.
If you don't give opportunities to foreign professional to make a living out of it and prove themselves in any environment, they will simply quit.
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself
i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative.
SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know.
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On January 22 2016 07:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:
[quote]
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative. SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know.
Help Take for HSC.
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On January 22 2016 07:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:14 showstealer1829 wrote:
[quote]
Would you like some starch for your white hood? Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative. SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know.
Like I said to the other guy you're actively supporting a system that bars players from one nation competing freely because they're better than your boys. That is racist, how you choose to justify that racism is irrelevant
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On January 22 2016 07:49 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:[quote] Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative. SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know. Help Take for HSC.
i like the HSC , however, i want an ongoing league with points and big events similar to Tennis or Auto Racing. WCS 2016 gives me that.
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On January 22 2016 07:50 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:17 Ppjack wrote:[quote] Man I would be as pissed if the only country producing this level of infrastructure for players was Australia. Don't try to make me say something I did not say. I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative. SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know. Like I said to the other guy you're actively supporting a system that bars players from one nation competing freely because they're better than your boys. That is racist, how you choose to justify that racism is irrelevant
You live in another world i guess.
The point is helping the foreign scene to growth and ultimately catch up with the korean scene, so starcraft is sustainable and peren not only in one country but worlwide. Why? More sponsors, more visibility, more sponsors, more money, more spectators.
If you want starcraft2 to be a niche game go on with this attitude. You'll have a good time jerking off on korean starcraft with only 10k viewers at 4 in the morning while all your friends will be playing/watching any other game that is sane.
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On January 22 2016 07:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2016 07:49 sAsImre wrote:On January 22 2016 07:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:23 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 07:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 07:10 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 22 2016 06:40 showstealer1829 wrote:On January 22 2016 06:20 Ppjack wrote:On January 22 2016 06:18 showstealer1829 wrote:
[quote]
I don't have to, you did it yourself If in your world cheering for your own country or your home team is racist, you must not really enjoy any kind of sport except few matches a year. edit: I just want the foreign players to be able to catch up. And anyway, cheering for someone is the opposite of rational. Just don't judge me on it and don't insult me at the same time... wtf No supporting your country isn't racist. Supporting a system that excludes a whole country because your country can only beat them 1 time out of 20 is. whoa... whoa...whoa? i'm racist because i support the WCS 2016? really? Did I stutter? lol, when u put together a better league system let me know and i'll take a look at it. as of now i'm supporting the most entertaining option at my disposal, namely, WCS 2016. have fun claiming i'm racist though I don't need to claim it. Your support of the system speaks for itself i'm an entertainment consumer with a budget of $1,000 a year... if u can do a better job you can take my cash. so far, you offer me no alternative. SC2:LotV and WCS 2016 are my best options so i'm taking them and backing them with my cash. When you have something better.. lemme know. Help Take for HSC. i like the HSC , however, i want an ongoing league with points and big events similar to Tennis or Auto Racing. WCS 2016 gives me that.
Perfect, in Tennis you would watch grand slams right?
Afreeca/SpotTv are waiting your money!
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EPT
