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What do you mean? If players retire from proleague squads it should be natural to replace them, no? There will be a point where korean sc2 teams need new players for proleague alone, if that isn't the case right now because the scene simply is too small, then so be it i guess.
Some may argue that blizzard is already artificially creating and keeping the scene, i simply find it very naive and irrational to argue that they should do even more, especially when Kespa/the teams could do more themselves.
This is a very basic concept if you have any experience with economics.
If people want to go pro at something they need to be able to live off it. Having a talent sustained talent pool with people practicing several hours a day in the hope they might get a spot when a proleague team finally needs a replacement is not a plan for the future any sensible person would choose, If you treat it like a hobby you won't be good enough, people quit school to focus on this game.
When there is two or three open spots on proleague teams in a given year, and there are allready a few established players without any teams, there is no way you would try to make a career here and you can't do it as a hobby.
The solution, according to you, is for proleague to somehow give them a financial incentive. For that to be a viable solution it needs to be possible economically. I sincerly doubt proleague teams have the resources required to keep a bunch of new players on retainer for when they will need them.
Unless there is a way for the proleague teams to make money of their extra players there is no way they can pay them and if they can't pay them there is no reason for those players to keep playing at a high enough level.
One way to do that would be to allow them to play in overseas tournaments. With that in place even if a player didn't get into a kespa team they could start playing in foreign tournaments.
Please do explain what economically viable solutions kespa could come up with on their own?
I'm not sure you understand what the words naive and irrational mean. Please explain how wanting Blizzard to support the scene as a whole as oposed to just one part of it is naive and irrational.
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On January 24 2016 23:55 GizmoPT wrote:
He can be a great writer even the best.. but first SC2 article being negative isn't good no matter how you spin it,
That's actually a fair point tbh. I can see why it was written, but it's extremely negative for a first one on espn.
On January 24 2016 23:58 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +What do you mean? If players retire from proleague squads it should be natural to replace them, no? There will be a point where korean sc2 teams need new players for proleague alone, if that isn't the case right now because the scene simply is too small, then so be it i guess.
Some may argue that blizzard is already artificially creating and keeping the scene, i simply find it very naive and irrational to argue that they should do even more, especially when Kespa/the teams could do more themselves. This is a very basic concept if you have any experience with economics. If people want to go pro at something they need to be able to live off it. Having a talent sustained talent pool with people practicing several hours a day in the hope they might get a spot when a proleague team finally needs a replacement is not a plan for the future any sensible person would choose, If you treat it like a hobby you won't be good enough, people quit school to focus on this game. When there is two or three open spots on proleague teams in a given year, and there are allready a few established players without any teams, there is no way you would try to make a career here and you can't do it as a hobby. The solution, according to you, is for proleague to somehow give them a financial incentive. For that to be a viable solution it needs to be possible economically. I sincerly doubt proleague teams have the resources required to keep a bunch of new players on retainer for when they will need them. Unless there is a way for the proleague teams to make money of their extra players there is no way they can pay them and if they can't pay them there is no reason for those players to keep playing at a high enough level. One way to do that would be to allow them to play in overseas tournaments. With that in place even if a player didn't get into a kespa team they could start playing in foreign tournaments. Please do explain what economically viable solutions kespa could come up with on their own? I'm not sure you understand what the words naive and irrational mean. Please explain how wanting Blizzard to support the scene as a whole as oposed to just one part of it is naive and irrational.
You realize that this is the reason why blizzard gave foreigners something to play in? Because there was no incentive for foreigners to become pro.
There IS actually stuff in korea which might be interesting for new players, be it a place in a proleague team or advancing to code A.
That's pretty much how it was done in korea since BW tbh, people wanted to get good at the game to get on a team and be in proleague. That's how the korean scene functions since forever.
Right now people simply choose lol over starcraft.
That players don't get paid for training absurd amounts of hours is another topic entirely, but it isn't a new one and it apparently didn't matter in the past.
You still didn't give a good argument on why blizzard should feel the need to do extra stuff for korea alone, they already do a lot and the rest simply comes down to the korean ecosystem.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On January 24 2016 23:56 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 23:37 corydoras wrote:
Holy smokes. I don't wanna be in stuchiu's skin now. One of the best if not the best SC2 community writers is being crapped on by two of the leading casters only because ESPN made a clickbaiting tweet. I hope it doesn't discourage stu from writing as much as he does.
And he deserves apologies from Apollo and especially Nathanias.
I'm really appalled now because both Apollo and Nate are among my favourite casters :/
Did Nathanias say anything else than just calling the article awful? Like why? Just bashing does no good. I enjoyed the article btw, you write very well Stuchiu!
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On January 24 2016 23:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 23:55 GizmoPT wrote:
He can be a great writer even the best.. but first SC2 article being negative isn't good no matter how you spin it, That's actually a fair point tbh. I can see why it was written, but it's extremely negative for a first one on espn.
It is a fair point. Which was, however, not the point Apollo and Nate appeared to be making.
Anyway, Apollo apologized so now I can only hope that Nate's 'shitter' tweet gets revoked one way or another.
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On January 25 2016 00:06 corydoras wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2016 23:59 The_Red_Viper wrote:On January 24 2016 23:55 GizmoPT wrote:
He can be a great writer even the best.. but first SC2 article being negative isn't good no matter how you spin it, That's actually a fair point tbh. I can see why it was written, but it's extremely negative for a first one on espn. It is a fair point. Which was, however, not the point Apollo and Nate appeared to be making. Anyway, Apollo apologized so now I can only hope that Nate's 'shitter' tweet gets revoked one way or another.
Nah sure, apollo and nathanias simply didn't read it at all (that's at least the way you have to see it if you don't wanna call them stupid/untrustworthy)
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Calling stuchiu "a shitter who did it for the chance to be an ass" says more about you than about stuchiu, Nathanias.
The irony is that it seems he is shitting on stuchiu just for the chance to be an ass lol.
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55566 Posts
So he called the article awful without reading it? :3
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Haha nice try. But he explicitly said "both are awful"
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rofl, Nathanias earlier today (talking about tweet+article):
edit: what above wrote 
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On January 25 2016 00:10 Silvana wrote:
Calling stuchiu "a shitter who did it for the chance to be an ass" says more about you than about stuchiu, Nathanias.
The irony is that it seems he is shitting on stuchiu just for the chance to be an ass lol.
Haha yeah exactly. Now he says he didn't comment on it because he didn't read it while tweeting this:
edit: silvana too fast for me 
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If you read the whole thread of tweets, I'm not so sure about this explanation. But at least it indicates Nate sees where he went wrong and that's a start...
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Yeah just saw that other tweet from Nathanias, disgusting behaviour!
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On January 25 2016 00:13 corydoras wrote:If you read the whole thread of tweets, I'm not so sure about this explanation. But at least it indicates Nate sees where he went wrong and that's a start...
He sees where he went wrong? Then apologize, don't pretend you didn't do anything wrong...
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gotta be quick on the twitter!
I feel an apology to Stuchiu is in order, heh
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On January 25 2016 00:14 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2016 00:13 corydoras wrote:If you read the whole thread of tweets, I'm not so sure about this explanation. But at least it indicates Nate sees where he went wrong and that's a start... He sees where he went wrong? Then apologize, don't pretend you didn't do anything wrong...
I'm trying to be optimistic. I mean: he could keep defending the whole 'shitter' patch he was trying to attach to stuchiu. Now he's just trying to defend himself. Maybe not in the most appropriate way, but it seems he knows he's guilty 
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It's always a pleasure to read the quality articles of Stuchiu.
But I can't help and often feel like his work is tainted with a kind of nostalgia/desilusion that bothers me. I don't even talk about his tweets, which I don't agree with 50% of them, 50 other % I don't even get the point of relating everything to korean scene. (eg: last tweet to harstem).
Anyway for a first article on ESPN, the tone and subject chosen was not great. Plus the huge clickbait it was obviously asking for a shitstorm on twitter.
edit: noone does that in any other esport, even in Lol where korea dominates almost as hard
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8751 Posts
I don't even see how that tweet is clickbait. Real clickbait title-article combos have titles that imply that there's more content than is actually there. This article actually lays out some facts about why we won't see another Flash. You can't read the article and think "nah, we're just as likely to get another flash as always" in which case you can't call it clickbait. It contains some hyperbole, by talking in absolutes rather than probabilities, but hyperbole isn't automatically clickbait. It's not even controversial or really can be contested. The scene in Korea that produced Flash and many other great talents is very different than how it is now. It doesn't seem able to repair itself, I think mainly due to other games being more attractive to young players, but Blizzard has come along and said it's going to inject money into its own game's esports scene, which gives people hope that an "artificial" boost can stimulate it. But Blizzard has made it clear with WCS 2016 which goals seem most realistic and which outcomes seem most desirable, and unfortunately for the fans of the Korean SC scene, restoring the Korean scene to its former glory is not a top priority. Therefore a smaller chance of the next Flash.
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I still wonder what Apollo finds debatable about Korea not seeing enough new talent for sc2 and that the new WCS doesn't help.
Now you can debate whether it should help like TRV does, but that's a different topic.
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EPT
