EPTOn January 18 2016 06:39 A_needle_jog wrote:
well to be fair they removed Swarm Host from Zerg with LOTV :D
well to be fair they removed Swarm Host from Zerg with LOTV :D
Great trade for the lurker, though.
Community Feedback Update - January 15 - Page 9
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p68
100 Posts
Great trade for the lurker, though. | ||
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Hurricaned
France126 Posts
On January 18 2016 06:39 A_needle_jog wrote: well to be fair they removed Swarm Host from Zerg with LOTV :D Which is one of blizzard best ideas since it completely ruined the game in Hots. Happy that they acknowledged their mistake but they should have also removed the MSC that also ruined the game but instead they buffed it. | ||
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ProtossMasterRace
57 Posts
On January 18 2016 07:41 Hurricaned wrote: Which is one of blizzard best ideas since it completely ruined the game in Hots. Happy that they acknowledged their mistake but they should have also removed the MSC that also ruined the game but instead they buffed it. The MSC is a necessary defensive tool for protoss and a skilled player can simply go in wait for PO to wear off and then go in again. It is only overpowered in lower leages where people walk into it and fight against PO blindly with small amounts of units, ofcourse then stuff dies, it's the same as walking into widow mines etc | ||
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
On January 18 2016 07:43 ProtossMasterRace wrote: The MSC is a necessary defensive tool for protoss and a skilled player can simply go in wait for PO to wear off and then go in again. It is only overpowered in lower leages where people walk into it and fight against PO blindly with small amounts of units, ofcourse then stuff dies, it's the same as walking into widow mines etc You should know that the existence of the MSC completely revolutionized Protoss; they are allowed to play much greedier simply because it restricts the options of their opponents. It's main strength is not in what it will actually do in a game, it's about its potential. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Instead we got this. | ||
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Aenteas
3 Posts
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Aenteas
3 Posts
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beefITek
France54 Posts
-> eSport is well encouraged .. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On January 18 2016 09:09 Aenteas wrote: I agree with the MSC stuff i would remove it too or at least change its spells. Recall and po are very bad design issues, also kills early agressions especially for zergs. Make spells like shield battery or something else for it. I miss cannons and sentry defends too The MSC never belonged in the game, ever. And I say that as a Protoss player. It took real skill to hold early timings in any matchup, and now we've been pressing one key and clicking on a structure to hold similar timings. I just remember how I felt when years of skills that I had honed for holding early attacks had been replaced with a single click. It is really pathetic actually. I've never understood why more people didn't speak out about it. The MSC should be completely removed and the shield battery should be re-introduced. Give the Nexus an energize ability (with limited range around the Nexus) that fills up the energy of a single caster. Constructed shield batteries should start with 0 energy so they aren't used offensively (so they can't support an offensive 4 Gate) and then have the Nexus energize ones built defensively near the Nexus. Change forcefields to Time Warp and give Sentries mini-time warps and reduce their gas cost to 75. Then buff Gateway units slightly (Stalkers +1 damage versus armored and slight attack speed increase, Zealots increased attack speed and/or +10 shields, Sentry +1 damage). | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Bohemond
United States163 Posts
On January 19 2016 06:05 BronzeKnee wrote: The MSC never belonged in the game, ever. And I say that as a Protoss player. It took real skill to hold early timings in any matchup, and now we've been pressing one key and clicking on a structure to hold similar timings. I just remember how I felt when years of skills that I had honed for holding early attacks had been replaced with a single click. It is really pathetic actually. I've never understood why more people didn't speak out about it. The MSC should be completely removed and the shield battery should be re-introduced. Give the Nexus an energize ability (with limited range around the Nexus) that fills up the energy of a single caster. Constructed shield batteries should start with 0 energy so they aren't used offensively (so they can't support an offensive 4 Gate) and then have the Nexus energize ones built defensively near the Nexus. Change forcefields to Time Warp and give Sentries mini-time warps and reduce their gas cost to 75. Then buff Gateway units slightly (Stalkers +1 damage versus armored and slight attack speed increase, Zealots increased attack speed and/or +10 shields, Sentry +1 damage). Careful man, reasonable and straightforward changes like these shouldn't be discussed outside of hushed meetings in seedy basements with passwords to get in, hoods, and animal sacrifices. We especially can't talk about buffing Zealots and Stalkers so they can trade before legs/blink. That's off the menu. Keep it on the hush hush and the QT next time, or else. | ||
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Aenteas
3 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Adepts are insane against Terran. You can take advantageous ground even if you failed to harass with it. Adepts are not only good at blocking scouts, but pressing Terran with its ability. When Terran sees WP, you must place your defense troops regardless of its intention. Anyway, TvP is biased to Protoss, Absolutely. I`m not the one to be blamed. I`m not the one who made Adepts - I`m just one who used it. Thank you Seed for punctuating so heavily his use of adepts in the interviews. 2. Siege tanks going back to tank mode when picked up by Medivacs does seem to be a solid suggestion. We agree with you that Siege Tanks gaining mobility did take away from what the unit is by design, and also agree that this change played the biggest part in making mech not viable in TvT. We can definitely add this to the next balance test map. Currently, LP has dropped sieged tank fire delay at 1.43 seconds. LP has siege mode duration at 3 seconds. It would be a nerf of 1.57 seconds or an 105% increase nerf. This doesn't account for the psychological effects of an already sieged tank that might have completed its firing cooldown upon drop versus a tank visually transforming with a calculable time to rush in and kill before first shot. I've liked their other changes on balance test map and I like that they're willing to tinker with quite a bit on balance customs. I hope he follows through on compensating buffs in damage, production speed, cost, health/armor, or range if the mobility is nerfed in the discussed manner. | ||
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 19 2016 06:46 Bohemond wrote: Careful man, reasonable and straightforward changes like these shouldn't be discussed outside of hushed meetings in seedy basements with passwords to get in, hoods, and animal sacrifices. We especially can't talk about buffing Zealots and Stalkers so they can trade before legs/blink. That's off the menu. Keep it on the hush hush and the QT next time, or else. Frankly, I don't see how Zealots being able to fight bio is any better than an MSC defense. Zealot combat is as binary as MSC, only instead of pressing PO+Pylon you're pressing A+behind the Bio. To dial down my exaggeration, the obvious difference is Zealots take infrastructure to produce and maintain, and you're trading resources and not energy when you use them. Those are not insignificant things. It's a great start. But it's still a far far cry from ideal. Don't be surprised when Terran's aren't overjoyed at the "solution" of being run over by A+more armies. My solution, going back to the beta, was to replace Guardian Shield with a spell that directly translates a target's shields into a burst of AOE damage. It would give Protoss an early form of AOE that rewarded keen awareness of the battlefield, in terms of shields and unit positioning, and it would tie Protoss units together with a form of synergy like what bio has thanks to the Medivac, from the lowly Zealot to the beefy Archon any unit could be made to work with this ability through micro. (Especially with WP) | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On January 19 2016 07:09 Danglars wrote: Thank you Seed for punctuating so heavily his use of adepts in the interviews. I could agree with this if you could fit two unsieged tanks (picked from sieged) in a single medivac and they auto-resiege the second they unload. In some situations, it would even enhance their behavior. Currently, LP has dropped sieged tank fire delay at 1.43 seconds. LP has siege mode duration at 3 seconds. It would be a nerf of 1.57 seconds or an 105% increase nerf. This doesn't account for the psychological effects of an already sieged tank that might have completed its firing cooldown upon drop versus a tank visually transforming with a calculable time to rush in and kill before first shot. I've liked their other changes on balance test map and I like that they're willing to tinker with quite a bit on balance customs. I hope he follows through on compensating buffs in damage, production speed, cost, health/armor, or range if the mobility is nerfed in the discussed manner. This could be done with a simply change that makes it when you load a unit in a dropship it didn't override the previous command, so you could shift click on the medivac and shift siege so it sieges when dropped. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On January 18 2016 07:43 ProtossMasterRace wrote: The MSC is a necessary defensive tool for protoss and a skilled player can simply go in wait for PO to wear off and then go in again. It is only overpowered in lower leages where people walk into it and fight against PO blindly with small amounts of units, ofcourse then stuff dies, it's the same as walking into widow mines etc Balance should not be a factor when it comes to designing the game properly. If Terrans become weak without their flying tanks and Protoss become weak without their Mothership Core, then so be it. It's the price you pay to get the game balanced on a solid foundation, making the game much healthier in the long run. I have to concede though, this is Blizzard we're talking about, so they'll probably just nerf it and call it a day. Probably explains why my love for this game is struggling at the moment. | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
On January 19 2016 05:46 beefITek wrote: The most pityfull thing is that there are only 2 GSL a year, all korean career is based on that, and now, all Terran that face Toss will have their half year ruined ... -> eSport is well encouraged .. agree...... | ||
digmouse
China6333 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
I love how everyone is crazy about TvP but no one is crazy about PvZ... | ||
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