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On January 04 2016 20:38 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 19:13 Dingodile wrote:On January 04 2016 14:25 alukarD wrote:
Enjoyed it so far. Thank you.
Can't decide myself for Naniwa or Stephano as best foreigner title.
I am a Naniwa fan. Based on pure results and money earned, Stephano seems the obvious choice. But still, Naniwa feels right-er for best foreigner title.
I believe his thirst for being the best is a quality Stephano didn't have (as much), and that really puts him up there for me. What is this? Definitely not Stephanos fault if he didnt care about being the best. Some people like rather being "one of the best" than "the best". Because "the best" is always controversial. Read the other article, it says that online results and money have no influence here. edit: doesnt matter which ranking list, Stephano and Naniwa are always top2. "most dramatical players" or "biggest celebrete players" and whatever else. Snute and Scarlett are both miles ahead of NaNiwa lol, NaNiwa is barely top 5 thanks to him being a drama queen
Scarlett shouldn't even be top 5 and everything that has been said about Mana and Nerchio and why they are behind IdrA (lol) can be said about Snute too.
As much as I dislike him, Naniwa is the clear number 2 with quite some room between him and #1 Stephano and him and #3 HuK.
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On January 04 2016 20:45 Gullis wrote:
Hmm I was sure that Stephano would be number one and Naniwa would be number two but seeing as the writers takes racial strength during their respective peaks in to consideration I guess it is possible Naniwa could be number one.
If that will be the case, Nanihaters will burn this place down I am sure.
Stephano will be 1st anyways because he is a likeable guy. I remember Naniwa is more feared by the Koreans(very subjective) + he has the passion. Maybe Leenock blocked this guy harder than it looks like but considering peeks I'd put Naniwa on top because I am biased.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 04 2016 20:53 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 20:38 OtherWorld wrote:On January 04 2016 19:13 Dingodile wrote:On January 04 2016 14:25 alukarD wrote:
Enjoyed it so far. Thank you.
Can't decide myself for Naniwa or Stephano as best foreigner title.
I am a Naniwa fan. Based on pure results and money earned, Stephano seems the obvious choice. But still, Naniwa feels right-er for best foreigner title.
I believe his thirst for being the best is a quality Stephano didn't have (as much), and that really puts him up there for me. What is this? Definitely not Stephanos fault if he didnt care about being the best. Some people like rather being "one of the best" than "the best". Because "the best" is always controversial. Read the other article, it says that online results and money have no influence here. edit: doesnt matter which ranking list, Stephano and Naniwa are always top2. "most dramatical players" or "biggest celebrete players" and whatever else. Snute and Scarlett are both miles ahead of NaNiwa lol, NaNiwa is barely top 5 thanks to him being a drama queen Scarlett shouldn't even be top 5 and everything that has been said about Mana and Nerchio and why they are behind IdrA (lol) can be said about Snute too. As much as I dislike him, Naniwa is the clear number 2 with quite some room between him and #1 Stephano and him and #3 HuK.
She lacks trophies and results overall, but she was really good in that game. She has to be in the top there. After the "Holy Trinity" (Huk, Stephano, Naniwa), but on the top.
Edit> I would like to note that I personally hate her style and never liked her(she has weird voice, my ears!!  ). And she had bad hair cut back then  But I still think she should be in the top 5.
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#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf
#9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa
#8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo
#7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions
#6 Sen - dont know China? scene
PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS.
Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it.
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On January 04 2016 20:44 Xoronius wrote:
It's a bit of a difference in the opposition. To win Vasacast Invitational, Vortix had to beat SeleCT, ToD, MMA, Stardust and Jjakji, with Jaedong, Oz, Kas, Happy, MaNa and others also in the composition.
In Battle in Berlin, Nerchio and Stephano were the two big favorites and Stephano lost to GoOdy in the semifinal, so they didn't play eachother. The field had 8 good european players in it, but it isn't comparable to Vasacast Invitational (trust me, as a GoOdy-fan, I wish it would be, since that would make his second place even more meaningful).
That's fair but Who's The Best European was similar to the Battle in Berlin - let's gather some of the best Europeans and throw them into a pit. WtBE had better format with group stage but BiB was offline which is even more meaningful. True, Stephano underperformed, but he was there so it shouldn't affect the tournament's prestige.
Not that it matters much and shouldn't make a big difference in this ranking but I think it was a solid trophy.
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On January 04 2016 21:22 Niejadek wrote:#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf #9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa #8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo #7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions #6 Sen - dont know China? scene PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS. Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it.
You do realize, that Vortix best year was 2014, right? When BL/infestor was long gone.
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On January 04 2016 21:27 stardog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 20:44 Xoronius wrote:
It's a bit of a difference in the opposition. To win Vasacast Invitational, Vortix had to beat SeleCT, ToD, MMA, Stardust and Jjakji, with Jaedong, Oz, Kas, Happy, MaNa and others also in the composition.
In Battle in Berlin, Nerchio and Stephano were the two big favorites and Stephano lost to GoOdy in the semifinal, so they didn't play eachother. The field had 8 good european players in it, but it isn't comparable to Vasacast Invitational (trust me, as a GoOdy-fan, I wish it would be, since that would make his second place even more meaningful).
That's fair but Who's The Best European was similar to the Battle in Berlin - let's gather some of the best Europeans and throw them into a pit. WtBE had better format with group stage but BiB was offline which is even more meaningful. True, Stephano underperformed, but he was there so it shouldn't affect the tournament's prestige. Not that it matters much and shouldn't make a big difference in this ranking but I think it was a solid trophy.
Yeah, the offline component probably lifts it a bit; an inclusion probably couldn't hur. Also I didn't say, Stephano underperformed, I said Stephano lost to GoOdy. Given their personal record, that is something, that happens about halt the time they play, so I wouldn't call it underperforming.
Edit: Damn it, double post. forgot to copy/paste it into the other post, sry for that.
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On January 04 2016 18:07 stardog wrote:I think that Batle in Berlin should be added to Nerchio's notable results if Vasacast Invitational or Who's the Best Foreigner were mentioned. Good list overall. One could argue about particular placements but it was pretty clear those are players deserving spots 6-10 and honestly it's not that important (or memorable) who's tenth and who's sixth. It will be much more significant for 1-5.
A tournament that I didn't get paid for, e-sports hehe :D
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On January 04 2016 20:45 Gullis wrote:
Hmm I was sure that Stephano would be number one and Naniwa would be number two but seeing as the writers takes racial strength during their respective peaks in to consideration I guess it is possible Naniwa could be number one.
Considering part of the racial imbalance stemmed directly from Stephano (especially ZvP where he revolutionized the meta completely) he would most likely still be put as number one.
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Good to see Sen in this list.
Huge respect to him and his play style.
Chicken Cutlet Zerg ftw! <3
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 04 2016 21:37 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 18:07 stardog wrote:I think that Batle in Berlin should be added to Nerchio's notable results if Vasacast Invitational or Who's the Best Foreigner were mentioned. Good list overall. One could argue about particular placements but it was pretty clear those are players deserving spots 6-10 and honestly it's not that important (or memorable) who's tenth and who's sixth. It will be much more significant for 1-5. A tournament that I didn't get paid for, e-sports hehe :D
Well, the first notable big winner in last 100 years(Red Army) got payed. Have you risen a Polish flag over the Reichstag? Maybe that's a condition to get payed
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Just seems like there's something skewed about the human algorithm you've been using. Might be counting power of the race at the time, for too much?
my top 10 would've probably looked like:
Stephano
Naniwa
Huk
Snute
Sen
MaNa
Thorzain
Nerchio
Scarlett
Idra
Vortix.
Whereas your Scarlett at top 5, with no clue how to play finals of a tournament, sure her peak was high, but even when she was owning Koreans, she would've said Nerchio was the better Acer Zerg..
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 04 2016 21:22 Niejadek wrote:#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf #9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa #8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo #7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions #6 Sen - dont know China? scene PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS. Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it.
I've never played Vortix but pretty much every time I've heard other pros talk about him it's with a shit ton of respect for how good he is, so I'm not that surprised he's up there.
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On January 04 2016 23:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 21:22 Niejadek wrote:#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf #9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa #8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo #7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions #6 Sen - dont know China? scene PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS. Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it. I've never played Vortix but pretty much every time I've heard other pros talk about him it's with a shit ton of respect for how good he is, so I'm not that surprised he's up there.
If I don't oversaw someone, Vortix also has the highest lifetime winrate against koreans out of any foreigner.
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On January 04 2016 23:38 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 23:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 04 2016 21:22 Niejadek wrote:#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf #9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa #8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo #7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions #6 Sen - dont know China? scene PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS. Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it. I've never played Vortix but pretty much every time I've heard other pros talk about him it's with a shit ton of respect for how good he is, so I'm not that surprised he's up there. If I don't oversaw someone, Vortix also has the highest lifetime winrate against koreans out of any foreigner.
If you take Offline Stephano is #1 and no one is even close and if you add Bo3+ it's not even funny
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Scarlett shouldn't even be top 5 and everything that has been said about Mana and Nerchio and why they are behind IdrA (lol) can be said about Snute too.
As much as I dislike him, Naniwa is the clear number 2 with quite some room between him and #1 Stephano and him and #3 HuK.
Snute had a long period where he was considered the best foreigner. Scarlett was also top 2 foreigner for a while.
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On January 04 2016 23:44 Philozovic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 23:38 Xoronius wrote:On January 04 2016 23:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On January 04 2016 21:22 Niejadek wrote:#10 Vortix - lol, he abuse 2 years of imba infestors and now he just switched to another game bcuz of nerf #9 Nerchio - really underrated, for me its top 3 after Stephano and Naniwa #8 Mana - sometimes delivering good games, good place imo #7 Idra - only achivements scored in NA server with 1-2 exceptions #6 Sen - dont know China? scene PLS dont talk about TLO, he never scored good result. Beside of him, more valueable player is KAS. Wonder if Lucifron and White-ra can make it. I've never played Vortix but pretty much every time I've heard other pros talk about him it's with a shit ton of respect for how good he is, so I'm not that surprised he's up there. If I don't oversaw someone, Vortix also has the highest lifetime winrate against koreans out of any foreigner. If you take Offline Stephano is #1 and no one is even close and if you add Bo3+ it's not even funny
I don't doubt, that Stephano overall is a greater player than Vortix. But the fact, that there is a metric, in which Vortix is nr. 1 is a strong argument for him overall deserving to be on this list.
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On January 04 2016 23:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +
Scarlett shouldn't even be top 5 and everything that has been said about Mana and Nerchio and why they are behind IdrA (lol) can be said about Snute too.
As much as I dislike him, Naniwa is the clear number 2 with quite some room between him and #1 Stephano and him and #3 HuK.
Snute had a long period where he was considered the best foreigner. Scarlett was also top 2 foreigner for a while.
I think that perception was also created because of the big wave of retirments and semi-retirements in 2013-14 of top foreigners. The foreign competition fell off a bit at the pre-baguette times of HotS which put a bigger spotlight on those that were still performing well. But their actual placements at that time are probably worse than those of some of the players that swam in the wake of 2011-12 Stephano and Naniwa. I'd still rate Snute pretty high due to his extreme consistency at the very top of HotS competition, but I think with MaNa and Nerchio also being very consistent players for even longer and having higher placements to back it up Snute's spot in the top 5 becomes very arguable.
Scarlett is a really hard case to rank at all. In terms of peak-skill there is no question she should be up there, you don't roll through S-class Koreans tournament after tournament without that. But she hardly has any results under her belt and that's by far the most important criterion for me in such a list and on top of that I wouldn't call her consistent.
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the fact i found funny about Idra was:
he was the biggest "BW Elitist", you can possibly imagine with his comments like "the real game" and "makes everybody with a brain sad.." et al., yet all the guys who go full rage on that topic cheered him in his fan club like they didnt realize. Made me laugh sometimes :D
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On January 04 2016 21:33 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2016 21:27 stardog wrote:On January 04 2016 20:44 Xoronius wrote:
It's a bit of a difference in the opposition. To win Vasacast Invitational, Vortix had to beat SeleCT, ToD, MMA, Stardust and Jjakji, with Jaedong, Oz, Kas, Happy, MaNa and others also in the composition.
In Battle in Berlin, Nerchio and Stephano were the two big favorites and Stephano lost to GoOdy in the semifinal, so they didn't play eachother. The field had 8 good european players in it, but it isn't comparable to Vasacast Invitational (trust me, as a GoOdy-fan, I wish it would be, since that would make his second place even more meaningful).
That's fair but Who's The Best European was similar to the Battle in Berlin - let's gather some of the best Europeans and throw them into a pit. WtBE had better format with group stage but BiB was offline which is even more meaningful. True, Stephano underperformed, but he was there so it shouldn't affect the tournament's prestige. Not that it matters much and shouldn't make a big difference in this ranking but I think it was a solid trophy. Yeah, the offline component probably lifts it a bit; an inclusion probably couldn't hur. Also I didn't say, Stephano underperformed, I said Stephano lost to GoOdy. Given their personal record, that is something, that happens about halt the time they play, so I wouldn't call it underperforming. Edit: Damn it, double post. forgot to copy/paste it into the other post, sry for that.
I remember that game on metapolis (3rd map). If Goody came 5sec later he would lost that game pretty hard. He killed that spire few seconds before greater spire. Stephano's ~20 Corruptors did wait for it. Even if Stephano did put that spire at Mainbase or 3rd base he would have won that map too. Goody just run blindly to natural base.
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EPT
