On December 30 2015 05:34 ilikeredheads wrote: Top 2 will probably be Scarlett and Stephano.
I'd see it going something like:
1) Naniwa/Stephano 2) Stephano/Naniwa 3) HuK 4) Scarlett 5) Snute
I feel that the reign and rivalry between Nani and Stephano and their accomplishments in Korea outweigh the success that Scarlett had. You think the guy that had two top 8 finishes in GSL should be below Scarlett? You can even argue HuK's success of being able to stay in Code S for six seasons during his stint in Korea is incredible and should rank him possibly Top 3.
Guys, I love Scarlett, but if you're actually putting her top 3 all time, you really need to think a bit more critically about it. I mean, she beat a lot of Koreans sure, but 0 premier wins and bad WCS results post-2013 and no real Korean tournament results are going to cost her dearly.
On December 30 2015 08:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Guys, I love Scarlett, but if you're actually putting her top 3 all time, you really need to think a bit more critically about it. I mean, she beat a lot of Koreans sure, but 0 premier wins and bad WCS results post-2013 and no real Korean tournament results are going to cost her dearly.
I think she's probably just shy of top 5, but to be frank, not many other foreigners have been as skilled as her, regardless of her results. I mean, her games vs. Bomber are legendary. But yeah shes definitely not top 3.
On December 30 2015 08:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Guys, I love Scarlett, but if you're actually putting her top 3 all time, you really need to think a bit more critically about it. I mean, she beat a lot of Koreans sure, but 0 premier wins and bad WCS results post-2013 and no real Korean tournament results are going to cost her dearly.
Hahaha! Jinro on spot 12. Then I don't have to read more I guess. Lol. How the hell can you set him so low? I suspect the writer simply wasn't following the scene when Jinro played. He actually changed the Korean meta. He was so highly regarded in the community it's not even funny. How the fuck can he only be twelwth.
On December 30 2015 18:49 Tryxtira wrote: Hahaha! Jinro on spot 12. Then I don't have to read more I guess. Lol. How the hell can you set him so low? I suspect the writer simply wasn't following the scene when Jinro played. He actually changed the Korean meta. He was so highly regarded in the community it's not even funny. How the fuck can he only be twelwth.
I mean i know you said you don't need to read any more.. but if you read it, it might answer your questions.
On December 30 2015 08:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Guys, I love Scarlett, but if you're actually putting her top 3 all time, you really need to think a bit more critically about it. I mean, she beat a lot of Koreans sure, but 0 premier wins and bad WCS results post-2013 and no real Korean tournament results are going to cost her dearly.
I think she's probably just shy of top 5, but to be frank, not many other foreigners have been as skilled as her, regardless of her results. I mean, her games vs. Bomber are legendary. But yeah shes definitely not top 3.
We will probably see these players being top 10 Sen Snute Nerchio Ret MaNa HuK IdrA Scarlett NaniWa Stephano
I also want to mention WhiteRa. This guy was at his primes pretty damn good. Let's also give a honourable mention to the only foreigner making it into IM. Fenix!
On December 30 2015 18:49 Tryxtira wrote: Hahaha! Jinro on spot 12. Then I don't have to read more I guess. Lol. How the hell can you set him so low? I suspect the writer simply wasn't following the scene when Jinro played. He actually changed the Korean meta. He was so highly regarded in the community it's not even funny. How the fuck can he only be twelwth.
He was highly regarded in the community = Actally being one of the best foreigners of all time (?) Changed the Korean meta? So you think that without Jinro koreans would still do 1/2-base all in?
How exactly did he change the meta? Because the way he played macro in 2010 had very little resemblance with how terran played macro in early 2011.
On December 30 2015 18:49 Tryxtira wrote: Hahaha! Jinro on spot 12. Then I don't have to read more I guess. Lol. How the hell can you set him so low? I suspect the writer simply wasn't following the scene when Jinro played. He actually changed the Korean meta. He was so highly regarded in the community it's not even funny. How the fuck can he only be twelwth.
You know, being at spot 12 despite losing so much after (when I looked for other people achievements I saw the results of many MLG, DH, IEM, etc...), basically to everyone in week-end tournaments, is very impressive already.
I think another problem Idra had that series was that these new big maps hadn't been released on ladder yet, and he hadn't actually practiced them since he didn't have such an environment, whereas I am sure you did.
Yeah that was all I played.
Yeh, Idra was really really good early WOL release. In my book he probably should have won season 1. I think he had a few margins going against him in the first 2-3 GSL's, and after that he quickly declined in skill.
It wasn't an awesome time to be a macro zerg (queens weren't the monsters they later became), but I felt idra sort of refused to accept that people were gonna cheese him... I dont know, he was really good but could have done so much more.
I remember also watching and cheering for your games against MarineKing like a mad man. I wondered if you could expose his bio only playstyle. And while you did win G1 against him, I felt it was quite obvious that his mechanics were on a different level. Generally speaking, it semed to me you had extremely good builds/openings that often got you a lead and afterwards you had a decent sense of how to take it into a macrogameafterwards.
Yeah he was mechanically better (he was/is mechanically incredible, watched so many games of his and just had my jaw drop at how he handles situations), but I also kind of got nervous when I was actually winning game 1 (and did my best to throw it) and then game 2 I kind of got thrown off by 1) he opened with a factory opening wtf! and 2) my build was working twice in a row ;d
My mechanics in that series and mechanics in practice were not the same tho, I fell apart a bit. Not an excuse at all, since that's part of the game, performing at a high level when it matters.
Btw, this had 0 impact on the series but I always found it kind of funny: Literally 1 hour after the games ended I started feeling super sick (throat hurting, chills etc) and the next morning I had a bad flu. My mind was so focused on that series that I didn't feel a single thing until it was over tho.
And I guess that might have been why you had issues post 2011 as the game started being more about mechanics since people learned how to deal with most builds (?)
Yeah for sure that was part of it, but I also went from non-stop custom practice games and ranking matches to... grinding ladder and streaming heh. Yeah not a smart move.
I had one last push of actually focused practice and I generally consider this the last time I was improving... It was late 2011 when I made code A qualifier finals and lost 1-2 vs IM... crap cant remember who, Minseok? IM Zerg anyway.
Man, had the last game so won - _ - Nestea reportedly even said 'it's over'. Then 12 ghost fungal t.t
One of my favorite series I played as a pro, every game was intense as hell and his comeback in the last game was really nice.
On December 30 2015 18:49 Tryxtira wrote: Hahaha! Jinro on spot 12. Then I don't have to read more I guess. Lol. How the hell can you set him so low? I suspect the writer simply wasn't following the scene when Jinro played. He actually changed the Korean meta. He was so highly regarded in the community it's not even funny. How the fuck can he only be twelwth.
You know, being at spot 12 despite losing so much after (when I looked for other people achievements I saw the results of many MLG, DH, IEM, etc...), basically to everyone in week-end tournaments, is very impressive already.
I´m a fan of Scarlett but I feel like if she´s in the top ten she may be rated slightly too high, I think that Dimaga has achieved more than Scarlett, but she definitely deserves to be in the top fifteen for her absolute domination of the NA scene in 2012 (see her WCS results) and her victor y over polt in that one WCS as wel las that epic MLG wher eshe offraced DRG and won.
Also it´ll be a shame if Sase doesn´t end up on this list as I think his MLG run to top 4 from open bracket is the most impressive MLG run by a foriegner, and he had other noteworthy results too.
That´s just my opinion though, I absolutely LOVE that this is happening, and I think Stephano has long deserved this. Predictions for top 5
Stephano 1, Naniwa 2 HuK 3 Snute 4 Idra 5 (though I kind of hope not. Still, for a while he was decent... then again, I actually think in some ways Thorzain achieved more than him but Thorzain is already on here so I guess we´ll see.)
Some notes on Jinro and Idra. When they were in Korean there was the issue where tournament winners got a massive proportion of the winnings (ie winner was 10x the semifinalists) and MLG also had low payouts for weekend tournaments. Its like the opposite of S.O.S. I remember the community complaining about the prize distributions...some MLGs were $5k for first place if I remember.
It seems almost everyone agrees on 8 out of 10 players in top10 - Stephano, Naniwa, HuK, Snute, Scarlett, Sen, Nerchio, MaNa. I cannot agree more.
Not everyone bets on Vortix but he has to be there simply because he achieved more than Lucifron who was 16th.
Who's the tenth player is the interesting question. I'm guessing Idra is the most probable choice although I don't think putting him above Jinro would be right. But I can't think of any other foreigner that could also be considered greater than Thorzain.
EPT
