EPTThis week's balance test map - Page 4
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On December 22 2015 07:53 Avexyli wrote: **Change to Psionic Transfer: Psionic Transfer now turns the Adept into the shade for 5 seconds, replacing the Armored\Bio tag with Light\Psionic. The speed of the shade in the live version is applied to the shade state. The Shade - replacing the Adept, can attack while in this state. I kinda like the idea of psionic transfer turning the adept into his shade. It's probably something that's never going to be tested, but still, interesting. | ||
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
Terran is already winning slightly more than 50% in the matchup according to Aligulac. I understand that Adepts are too strong early, but a straight nerf will just increase the win percentage of Terran more. The matchup, in terms of win rate is very close to balanced now. Thus, any nerf should be accompanied with a buff somewhere else for either race. That is how balance works. On December 22 2015 06:36 Golgotha wrote: so many tears when it was obvious that adepts were OP in PvT. ffs people give it a chance and see. its a balance test map ffs. The vast majority of the time, the changes from a balance test map go live. The problem is Blizzard doesn't agree that balance is both sides having an equal chance of winning. Because if they understood that, they would leave TvP alone for now and be focused totally on PvZ which is a disaster for Protoss. I fully understand that the Adept is too strong bad for the game, but it balances out many of the weak Protoss compositions and it was literally one of the few buffs Protoss got in LOTV (the other big one being the Photon Overcharge change, which just got nerfed). I play Protoss and I don't like the Adept at all. However it is a key part of the Protoss army now and Marauders running it over means that Protoss will need to build Zealots again, and David Kim talked about how Zealots are a late game unit now... so much for that. Hydra/Lurker timings are going to be absolutely brutal too. I think I'll just stop playing until Protoss gets some buffs or the meta shifts to where the win % for Protoss is closer to 50% in both matchups. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On December 22 2015 06:01 Ctesias wrote: Ravagers, on the other hand, definitely need to be armored. I don't see a problem here either, it allows phoenix to kill ravagers relatively fast making them a soft counter to ravagers and a more relevant unit in PvZ. In terms of TvZ, meh, I still think seige tanks do just fine against them. If ravagers are really a problem at the highest levels, I'd almost be in favor of not allowing ravagers to be morphed until zerg gets lair tech. | ||
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pzlama333
United States282 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 22 2015 05:07 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Maybe I will actually try laddering again. Didn't see a point to playing T when I would auto lose to any Warp prism / Adept play without playing a total gimmick build order (Cyclone + mass turret wtf is that). I have had success with mass marine into semi fast medivac+liberator. Normal 1rax reaper, CC into 3fast CC with 1techlab+stim. None-stop production. 14CC into 3 fast rax works to. I usually havel liberators out a bit later than the first prism warp in harass but they are good at chasing it so you do not have to be utterly afraid of a backstab if u decide to move out. This is against 2base. Against 1base, it holds the all-in to i actually think if u time the baracks etc. | ||
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
Won't change that much about TvP early game because you still make mostly marines until you take a 3rd (unless you're doing a 2 base timing). Either this or removing the ability to cancel shade (which would make the unit boring) would be the changes I would consider, and I'm happy they're pursuing the former. | ||
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BamBam
745 Posts
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Valeranth
United States100 Posts
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p68
100 Posts
On December 22 2015 12:48 BronzeKnee wrote: This is bad, bad idea. Terran is already winning slightly more than 50% in the matchup according to Aligulac. Please stop repeating the Aligulac stats that are only through November currently, and LOTV launched November 10. From the small tournament sample size we do have, it's clear that Terran's having major issues in TvP, and players like Polt have echoed this. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On December 22 2015 13:22 emc wrote: I don't see a problem with making adept armored, this could be a good thing. I feel that every zerg should always place a roach warren down regardless in every match up now, so even if you go ling/bane, make a couple roaches/ravagers and be done with it, it's a non-committal tech structure for 150 minerals. I don't see a problem here either, it allows phoenix to kill ravagers relatively fast making them a soft counter to ravagers and a more relevant unit in PvZ. In terms of TvZ, meh, I still think seige tanks do just fine against them. If ravagers are really a problem at the highest levels, I'd almost be in favor of not allowing ravagers to be morphed until zerg gets lair tech. Just as an aside, Ravagers are not light units, so Phoenixes do not do bonus damage to them. And making them armored would not make make Phoenixes any better or worse against them. They don't have any attribute except for biological. I will be interested to see how the Adept is when armored, but I trust they'll fix things if they swing too far in Terran's favor after this. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
1. If the Terran main army is suddenly attacked while the drop is in progress, Terran likely loses because a portion of his troops are out of position - the Protoss main army is not affected by his Warp Prism being out of position, because he has not actually deployed any of the charges on his Warp Gates yet - he can simply warp in at home and defend. Therefore, there is almost no commitment on the part of Protoss to send out Warp Prisms to harass - attacked? No worries, just warp at home? No attack? Hurrah, send my main army to dance in front of his bases while my Warp prisms teleport in waves of Adepts/Zealots to destroy their economy/production 2. Once the Warp Prism is in place - Protoss can instantly teleport 10-20 of his units into place, and continue to do so as long as the Warp Prism is kept alive - Terran Medivacs have a limit on their cargo, and there is no possibility of reinforcement for the drop The problem is not Adepts. The problem is with Warp Prisms allowing Protoss to negate basic RTS mechanics, and with Warp Gate for distorting the basic rules of RTS production by paying after the cycle. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 22 2015 15:31 insitelol wrote: How on earth would that change affect pvz? Can't get this whining. Banelings no longer deal additional damage to Adepts. Apparently, in Korea Zergling/Banelings are used to deal with early Adept timings. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7997 Posts
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
On December 22 2015 15:41 Tsubbi wrote: for over a week theres been no zerg in korean top10 gm (yes, this does mean a lot atm), korean metagame seems to have changed a lot already, its so hard to judge balance in the off season Theres 2 there right now and there were 4 in top 10 last night It'd be helpful if you actually checked your facts before spouting such absolute nonsense | ||
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
On December 22 2015 15:26 EatingBomber wrote: The fundamental problem with Adepts is not their brute power or physical attributes - it is that, when coupled with the ability to completely negate the defender's advantage, in addition to the fact that it has what is effectively a delayed Dagger of Escape, the Adept becomes a ranged Zealot that is incredibly mobile and harassment-friendly. Try and see how good Adepts are in a frontal assault against stimmed bio with Medivac support - they get trashed. The problem is that Protoss has the ability to teleport their units directly into the enemy's base, and this ability comes at an incredibly low tech level - Cybernetics Core + Robotics Facility - which means that Protoss has an early mobile teleportation portal that can ignore the basic rules of an RTS - the terrain advantage of a defender, shorter lines of reinforcement, etc. It means that, coupled with the faster production cycle of Protoss' Warp Gate mechanic, Protoss can easily overwhelm Terran numerically at any place within a short moment's notice and without any impact on Protoss' main army. Compare this with Terran drops - Terran requires the units to already be in existence in order for him to commit to a drop, which means that Terran divides his army into portions when he sends out Medivacs - this is fundamentally different from the Warp Prism, because 1. If the Terran main army is suddenly attacked while the drop is in progress, Terran likely loses because a portion of his troops are out of position - the Protoss main army is not affected by his Warp Prism being out of position, because he has not actually deployed any of the charges on his Warp Gates yet - he can simply warp in at home and defend. Therefore, there is almost no commitment on the part of Protoss to send out Warp Prisms to harass - attacked? No worries, just warp at home? No attack? Hurrah, send my main army to dance in front of his bases while my Warp prisms teleport in waves of Adepts/Zealots to destroy their economy/production 2. Once the Warp Prism is in place - Protoss can instantly teleport 10-20 of his units into place, and continue to do so as long as the Warp Prism is kept alive - Terran Medivacs have a limit on their cargo, and there is no possibility of reinforcement for the drop The problem is not Adepts. The problem is with Warp Prisms allowing Protoss to negate basic RTS mechanics, and with Warp Gate for distorting the basic rules of RTS production by paying after the cycle. Adepts do not get trashed against bio, they only need a few immortals fro support and they wreck bio. They won't anymore though. That is what this patch is changing. | ||
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wishr
Russian Federation262 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 22 2015 15:26 EatingBomber wrote: Try and see how good Adepts are in a frontal assault against stimmed bio with Medivac support - they get trashed. Few weeks back I saw someone try it in the unit tester. Adepts won. | ||
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