EPTCarrier build time though ?
Community Feedback Update - December 18 - Page 7
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
Carrier build time though ? | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 19 2015 21:49 Elentos wrote: I don't see why people keep asking for this. Removing the tank pickup entirely is a nerf to a ridiculous extent. It would mean tanks are at all times vulnerable to ravager shots. It would make them way more vulnerable against adept suicides and stalker blink-ins etc. because you can't save the tank anymore. Where do you want them to buff the tank damage to to compensate for the fact that it gets countered so easily because it can't move? Liberator level but with AoE? The tank should be saved by good positioning. And it would if it would actually do it's job. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On December 19 2015 18:41 JazVM wrote: I think the changes are worth a try but I am really worried about the fact, that the adept wasn't even mentioned as a potential problem. I also don't completely dig the Viper nerf since losing your whole air army can be prevented by splitting. It's basically a disruptor vs. air and I don't see whats wrong with it. Yes, like an instant-casted disruptor. An undodgable storm. And there is a reason that disruptor was nerfed... The reason is that just like the Viper it is completely unforgivable. Having to split is one thing. Having a few easy to cast spells (easy, since it just locks on whatever you select) be instant-gg when the enemy doesn't pay attention for one second is bad. Compare this to the seeker missile. Which does indeed also damage ground units. But also allied units. And is idle for 5 seconds before attacking, and during this time it clearly highlights the target. And finally, it has limitted range, so if you don't have time to micro against it you just pull all units back and often will be fine. On December 19 2015 22:03 HeroMystic wrote: The tank should be saved by good positioning. And it would if it would actually do it's job. Tbh it is hard to position against shades which are unstoppable and unkillable until they are on top of your tanks. | ||
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Senkii
Hungary37 Posts
The ladder changes are something i look forward to, altough i don't see what's the point of bonus pool+Visible MMR. | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:04 Sissors wrote: Tbh it is hard to position against shades which are unstoppable and unkillable until they are on top of your tanks. That's more of an Adept problem than a Tank problem. | ||
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Elentos
55568 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:03 HeroMystic wrote: The tank should be saved by good positioning. And it would if it would actually do it's job. The tank is too slow of LotV without medivacs. Your positioning can be great for how the engagement starts but a few seconds later they'd be better off in a different spot because the actual fight is happening out of range. And you don't actually fix that by increasing its damage. Unless you increase it to a point where massing them becomes almost obscenely strong. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:03 HeroMystic wrote: The tank should be saved by good positioning. And it would if it would actually do it's job. I dont quite see how the tank can be this very good positioning unit while not beeing OP in larger numbers. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 19 2015 21:49 Elentos wrote: I don't see why people keep asking for this. Removing the tank pickup entirely is a nerf to a ridiculous extent. It would mean tanks are at all times vulnerable to ravager shots. It would make them way more vulnerable against adept suicides and stalker blink-ins etc. because you can't save the tank anymore. Where do you want them to buff the tank damage to to compensate for the fact that it gets countered so easily because it can't move? Liberator level but with AoE? Yeah, like Liberators, like Lurkers, like whatever it needs to be able to do it's job. TankVac made TvT stupid, it's a big buff for bio that uses a lot of vacs and mostly useless for mech. DK is very proud of it's creation IMO so i don't actually expect it to change. RIP Siege Tank | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:14 Elentos wrote: The tank is too slow of LotV without medivacs. Your positioning can be great for how the engagement starts but a few seconds later they'd be better off in a different spot because the actual fight is happening out of range. And you don't actually fix that by increasing its damage. Unless you increase it to a point where massing them becomes almost obscenely strong. So if Siege Tanks are strong, your opponent works on staying out of it's range... sounds like it's doing it's job to me. The big picture is, Siege Tanks do not trade efficiently right now, and Tankivacs is a workaround, not a problem solver. The Siege Tank count can't get too high because of the obscene amount of hard counters in this game. Buffing the damage allows it to trade efficiently before dying to good counterplay. | ||
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justnny
United States171 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On December 19 2015 22:14 Elentos wrote: The tank is too slow of LotV without medivacs. Your positioning can be great for how the engagement starts but a few seconds later they'd be better off in a different spot because the actual fight is happening out of range. And you don't actually fix that by increasing its damage. Unless you increase it to a point where massing them becomes almost obscenely strong. Lurkers are strong and I don't see them being picked up by overlords. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
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Elentos
55568 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:00 Lexender wrote: Lurkers are strong and I don't see them being picked up by overlords. Lurkers are faster than overlords, you're not even trying. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3486 Posts
On December 19 2015 18:28 bObA wrote: Good changes so far but ultras still need some changes. Or if they really want terran use ghosts against toss and zerg, they could buff a bit snipe AND emp radius or damage ( radius as it was on WOL the same for the storms but of course not full shield of course as it is on BW and at the beginning of WOL if I remember well ) Protoss army is really strong for terran right now and so many players especially in homestory cup, and David Kim was talking about this event, are saying protoss imba, and that's said mainly by protoss players. So if they would buff ghosts quite a bit for snipe and emp, that won't directly nerf ultras and protoss army directly which would be problematic to fix for ZvP match ups. And if they want to re introduce a bit mech that wouldn't be a good idea to buff marauders. Ghost buff won't affect mech in TvT. And with infestors that they are so effective combined with ravagers, banelings and ultras emp would help to prevent that fungals. Also that would protect also against vipers especially to protect air units against parasitic bomb. And of course snipe against ultras and broodlords, because marauders won't be enough and vikings to fragiles against vipers and corruptors and fungals too. Buff ghosts would be imo a nice buff in the way blizzard wants to go : - more ghost uses and more good play - no only MMM for every single match ups - no balance ZvP match up to fix by nerfing toss and zergs units - no balance problem in TvT with mech play Ghosts are seriously strong in TvZ, you'll just need to not clump up, or Fungal will make them all useless. Also you still need a sort of varied unit composition. One thing that should be buffed on the Ghost though is the Snipe animation+sound, it deals SOOO much damage to Ultralisks and Brood Lords that the little snipe "pew" really doesn't justify the strength of the new snipe, it should probably sound like a bazooka or something. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:21 Elentos wrote: Lurkers are much faster than overlords, you're not even trying. The point is that lurkers wouldn't even need speedilords for being viable (strength wise) You could achieve the same with the tank if you tried, but just giving it more mobility through speedivacs is obviously easier. It's just a band-aid fix though, like a lot of stuff in sc2 :/ | ||
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Elentos
55568 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:26 The_Red_Viper wrote: The point is that lurkers wouldn't even need speedilords for being viable (strength wise) You could achieve the same with the tank if you tried, but just giving it more mobility through speedivacs is obviously easier. It's just a band-aid fix though, like a lot of stuff in sc2 :/ I don't see lurkers being used against Terran and they're not super common in ZvZ either. So there's clearly limits to their strength comparable to tanks. Even in terms of DPS the lurker is barely ahead against non-armored targets. So this comparison isn't really great to begin with in terms of viability. The lurker is even easier to micro against than the tank as long as you see it's puny attack. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:10 PinoKotsBeer wrote: 2 more weeks of the non stop bullshit of adepts and roach ravenger rushes. the joy... Whole lot a' pain. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
Also, cooldown on the snipe ability because otherwise it would be too strong. So why not cooldown on transfuse for queens, so they cant infinite transfuse 1 ultra or a nydus worm. Why the ling got buffed in the first place? no one knows. Why got the broodlord its range back? no one knows. Adepts? tvp on ladder is a nightmare. But lets wait for feedback from the koreans... suprise, they say the same. Tournement results are already affected by it. Glad the terran koreans have so many tournaments left to compensate for this season... oh wait... only 2 seasons :D Buff the carrier because we dont see those enough, seems a legit reason. Why not buff nukes or battlecruisers, we see those all the time, right!? right?! Terran has the worst design atm: Mines: clearly visable + the line of impact Burrowed zerg units, like an ultralisk , lurker? cant see them Stasis from toss? cant see them Liberator? everyone can see the ring of impact, can we see that from toss or zerg units? nope Scouting possibilies for terran? after the reaper we have to use scans = less mules= less eco. Mules compensate for building time etc. But we need to cut eco to scout, and if we are lucky we might spot something, or we have to scan again. Viking to ground mode? much delay and they are crap in that mode. Thor, most horrible AI ever but the delay between moving and shooting is so big, it makes it go full derp in a lot of situtions. Siegetank/liberator, to do extra damage it needs to siege. unlike the units from toss and zerg (except the lurker, but that one is fast with burrow and unburrow). Static defence, just minerals, but for terran we got a weak pf that cost another 150 gas. Tier 1 units with 3-3? lings and zealots go ham and are still useful, random 6 marines without medivac cant do shit. Cyclones are a joke, expensive, super weak (2 shot by immortal) heavy on supply etc. Creativity for terran? hardly any is left in lotv. Oh wait we got "teleport" on bc's..... that opens the game a lot And this is just a tip of the iceberg why terran suck atm. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:30 Elentos wrote: I don't see lurkers being used against Terran and they're not super common in ZvZ either. So there's clearly limits to their strength comparable to tanks. Even in terms of DPS the lurker is barely ahead against non-armored targets. So this comparison isn't really great to begin with. I feel like lurkers simply come too late atm to be used in every matchup. But that was just a side not anyway. The point is that tanks should be strong on their own, not when being teleported from one place to another. Tanks should be what liberators are now : scary There wouldn't even be any need for liberators to begin with if the tank was actually a solid, strong unit. | ||
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Elentos
55568 Posts
On December 19 2015 23:35 The_Red_Viper wrote: I feel like lurkers simply come too late atm to be used in every matchup. But that was just a side not anyway. The point is that tanks should be strong on their own, not when being teleported from one place to another. Tanks should be what liberators are now : scary There wouldn't even be any need for liberators to begin with if the tank was actually a solid, strong unit. The liberator has the added bonus of being able to fight air units and being more convenient because you make it from reactor starports. Not to mention it flies so many units can't fight back. Like, if you had the current liberator and a much stronger tank, I reckon the liberator would still be more convenient to make despite being more expensive. And I don't really have hopes of them changing the liberator and the tank in sensible fashion at the same time. | ||
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