EPTAlso buff the siege Tank. and Make Ravens more desirable for mainline casting units with Bio play,.,,,
Thanks!
Why mech won't work (surprise! Vipers! and econ) - Page 7
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iamCHOMP
Canada15 Posts
Also buff the siege Tank. and Make Ravens more desirable for mainline casting units with Bio play,.,,, Thanks! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 09 2015 13:38 bigbadgreen wrote: The biggest reason this is going to be so hard to balance is because in trying to make mech easily viable is that buffing mech units helps out the players who prefer bio. There are already early mid game bio pushes that come with tanks that are very hard to hold as Z. If you buff the tank not only would it make those pushes even more difficult it would kill mech in the process because using those pushes would be the easy choice for pros. You can't just buff the tank and not take something away. the medivac pickup being removed isn't enough. The big question for mech players is, which unit you would like to weaken? marine, medivac, marauder or hell bat. Now let's get some reaction from the bio players. if the tank were to be buffed, which unit would you like to see weakened? Your argument presupposes that the game is balanced right now. The game is very far from balanced right now. It isn't figured out yet, either. Not every buff has to be offset with a nerf, and vice versa, this early into LotV. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On December 09 2015 13:38 bigbadgreen wrote: The biggest reason this is going to be so hard to balance is because in trying to make mech easily viable is that buffing mech units helps out the players who prefer bio. There are already early mid game bio pushes that come with tanks that are very hard to hold as Z. If you buff the tank not only would it make those pushes even more difficult it would kill mech in the process because using those pushes would be the easy choice for pros. You can't just buff the tank and not take something away. the medivac pickup being removed isn't enough. The big question for mech players is, which unit you would like to weaken? marine, medivac, marauder or hell bat. Now let's get some reaction from the bio players. if the tank were to be buffed, which unit would you like to see weakened? That can be easily solved with siege mode research, and not to mention tanks would never work with bio withouth siege pick up, they would be too slow to be of any use withouth it. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On December 08 2015 04:33 NonY wrote: Can you explain how wanting mech to be competitive isn't "stupid" (irrational) at its core? You've just picked some production buildings and units that follow a non-combat theme (they're mechanical) and ask Blizzard to change the rules of the game so this theme of units you like building is viable to play on every map and against every race. There's no other group of SC2 players like the mech players. I think it's totally cool to have a composition that you like to play but it goes too far when discussing possibly changing of the rules of the game to make your little pet composition better. It all started with mech being viable in a different game and wanting an equivalent in SC2, which is not at all unlike comparing terran mech to protoss mech. The races aren't supposed to be the same and neither are the games. The completely arbitrary picking of certain terran units, the "mechanical" ones built from factories and starports, is so absurd as a basis for this whole movement that you don't even think about it anymore. Every time the mech petitioners go too far with how much they want the whole game to change to suit them, people have to come remind you how ridiculous it all is. Amen. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1560 Posts
On December 09 2015 14:20 iamCHOMP wrote: I feel Terran is missing in AOE and casting abilities. I would like to see the Ghost buffed. The way I want to see the Ghost Buff is by reworking the design of some abilities and giving them a movement speed buff while in cloak mode and give them the lock down ability back from BW. I think Lock Down would be a great Tool against Protoss Air/Robo build players and could see some new Meta game builds with Terran Ghost Play more of a factor. Also buff the siege Tank. and Make Ravens more desirable for mainline casting units with Bio play,.,,, Thanks! AoE casting existed in seekers remember? It got nerfed though. | ||
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
I'd like to see a tank damage buff, but I like that they can be picked up. But pick-up should unsiege them. It's silly otherwise, and it doesn't feel like a siege tank anymore. More like a clunky air unit. | ||
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Haighstrom
United Kingdom216 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On top of that, there are many Zerg and Protoss players who adopted and got used to the "old BW mech playstyle", aka "turtle into super army, then win" and they love it, of course. It was Terran in BW who could enjoyed this mindset and it worked for some reason, it doesn't work in SC2 (there are very good analyses on this too - like the economy). You could argue that it should be Terran in SC2 again who should have the strongest army, mainly because of the slowest economy, production, ability to remax, switch tech, etc... But it doesn't change the point of view of many players (and Blizzard, apparently) who just love the way the game is right now. I can't blame those players. It's just how it is with SC2 right now. Seems like it's not going to change. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
On December 09 2015 21:42 Haighstrom wrote: Awww I saw the title and was hoping for an Avilo WoT. What does WoT stand for? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Wall of Truth | ||
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i_am_Nite
Russian Federation66 Posts
World of Tanks? Lol | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
Whine or Tears? | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On December 09 2015 12:39 Lexender wrote: Some times (actually all the time, but I'll try to be a bit fair) I think you are just a poorly worded troll, you always complain about "terran whiners" when you whine a lot yourself (I don't even want to remember your post during the blink era, they were cringe worthy at best) and now you come complaining about the same fucking argument you've made yourself. You complain that terrans what a viable mech saying that protoss don't ask for robo only units to be viable (cuz all races have to be the same right? terran gets no mech because protoss has no robo only) and then you make THIS argument about races being different, when the bio/mech dichotomy is an inherent trait of terran. I'm not complaining about your opinions, they are yours to make, but a little consistency would be nice. Having an asymmetrical equality is fine if there is a reasoning behind why it is. In my example above, Zerg drops aren't as good as Terran drops, and that's fine because Zergs have higher mobility. You can't ask for only mech units simply without a reasoning behind it that will be ok for it to differentiate with other races, and as Nony pointed out, it's completely arbitrary. Why should Terrans get a whole new playstyle when other races don't? Because it's asymmetrical equal? No, it's not, because there is absolutely no reason why that should happen. I see a lot of those weak arguments like "having more diverse gameplay is better," but why should that more diverse gameplay only happen for Terrans? See where this is going? For example, T Sensor tower is something that other races lack, but they are "made up" for it because Zergs have creep that give vision, and Protoss has ability to instantly defend its base (warp or recall). These 3 things are not equal (I would argue sensor tower is probably the strongest due to how easy / fast it gives wide vision, but that's not the point here) but they give the three races a way to give asymmetrical balance. Let's be able to crush opponents with only units that are made from factory hur-dur without giving something to the other 2 races not only breaks balance, but also creates gameplay skew that rewards gameplay to a player for picking one race over another. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
People are so pessimistic. I think: 1) Vipers need a nerf (doable) 2) Tank drops have to go TvT (doable with a Ravager tweak) 3) Terran needs more ways to keep Protoss honest (doable with a PO nerf, but P will need a buff somewhere else against Z...) Mech could be playable in all matchups with very few tweaks even without changing the tank. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On December 10 2015 00:26 DinoMight wrote: I don't think it's the same tired arguments that are being made blah blah blah.. People are so pessimistic. I think: 1) Vipers need a nerf (doable) 2) Tank drops have to go TvT (doable with a Ravager tweak) 3) Terran needs more ways to keep Protoss honest (doable with a PO nerf, but P will need a buff somewhere else against Z...) Mech could be playable in all matchups with very few tweaks even without changing the tank. The same old story over and over again... A good guy makes a thread about how mech could be viable, just do this blah blah blah.. I've been following this for like forever. Of course it is easy to make mech work with few changes. Guess what? They've never listened to anything of that. It's not like people are pessimistic, it's more like people are realistic at this point. Now that LotV is out there is no more "they wil surely fix mech in the next expansion". Do yourself a favor, open your eyes and accept the facts. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
Bio liberators trump mech? That has not been my experience. The 150-150 liberator cost seems very high to me. I no longer use it in that MU. Fungal growth did not deal with raven cloud effectively. Zergs just had no other option. A nerf to PB is in order, perhaps. | ||
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
Done. Tanks are a joke in SC2. You want mech to work, you need tanks that don't suck. You want mech to work in a low econ environment where you have to harass and defend harass, you need tanks that don't suck - tanks that actually pose a threat early on. Tanks that punish ravagers waddling into their range. Tanks that can handle roach/ravager pressure. Tanks that threaten to punish offensive blinks. Basically, you need tanks that don't suck. On December 10 2015 00:37 Everlong wrote: Do yourself a favor, open your eyes and accept the facts. Yeah, that being the fact that the devs have made it clear time and time again that their idea of Terran is bio spam. It's too bad, really. They lost a lot of their BW flavour with the current focus on tier one barracks units to carry the race through the entire game. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
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Naracs_Duc
746 Posts
On December 10 2015 05:49 Mjolnir wrote: Yeah, that being the fact that the devs have made it clear time and time again that their idea of Terran is bio spam. It's too bad, really. They lost a lot of their BW flavour with the current focus on (marine Raynor as the main human protagonist instead of vulture Raynor) to carry the race through the entire (Franchise). there, fixed your typo. | ||
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