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Community Feedback Update - November 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
115 CommentsPost a Reply
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The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
November 20 2015 19:26 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Dayvie wrote:
Hello everyone, and welcome to Legacy of the Void! Before we get started, we wanted to let you guys know that we’re thinking of pushing out our new league distribution percentages sometime in December before people go on vacation, and doing a season roll to get the percentages working correctly. This way, we can play during the break on a fresh season with the updated league distributions. Please keep in mind that this will not initiate a reset to your MMR (hidden skill rating), so the quality of matches should not be negatively impacted.

Moving on, this week we would like to share topics that came up at our recent community summit, which happened a few days before Blizzcon, as well as in our sessions with the WCS finalists.


Barcode issue

There were many discussions on this side, and the conclusion from both the summit and the current top players in the world was that there was little we could change directly within the game to resolve this issue. With that in mind, we may collaborate with our Blizzard Esports team to tackle this issue going forward . We probably don’t need to go into every detail that we talked about here, but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced.

However, if we were to integrate the top of the ladder with Esports (such as with WCS points, for example) it might be possible to incentivize players to use their correct IDs on ladder. We have begun discussing the possibilities on our development team in an effort to create the most accurate/transparent ladder, especially at the top. With our current ladder system however, changes doesn’t seem possible due to issues we’ve discussed at BlizzCon. So, as we work to redesign the ladder, we’ll also be in discussions with our Esports team to see what can be done here.


KR top pro feedback in general

There was a misconception among some of the top-tier Korean pro players that if a pro player communicated that something should be changed, then we were expected to make that change. If we did not make that change, some players felt it was pointless to give feedback because we were not listening.

We discussed this concept, and realized that it is impossible to just do everything that any pro player says. For example, even in our discussion sessions it was clear that people had completely opposing views. For example, our design team’s perspective was that Terran was the weakest race at the end of HotS, some of the pro players agreed, and others completely disagreed saying Terran was by far the strongest and needed to be nerfed. Examples such as these clearly showed that it’s just impossible and completely unreasonable to expect the game to change if a pro player said one thing.

However, what we did get out of this type of misconception was that we can definitely do better in terms of involving more top end players in regular discussions. In order to do so, some ideas were brought up not by just the players, but also by the coaches and managers that were at the event, and we’re currently having internal discussions with both the esports team and the community team to start trying out some of these ideas. We currently don’t have amazing ideas here yet, but the plan is to try out different suggestions and improve upon the process as we go. If you have good ideas on this front, please let us know.


Terran weakness in HotS

We had many discussions regarding if Terran needed a patch in HotS or not. The opinions of influencers and pro players ranged heavily from Terran was surely OP to Terran can’t do much + needed to be patched. However, the general consensus was that because Terran weakness towards the end of HotS was only by a small margin, and both pro feedback and community feedback pointed towards the game being well balanced, we believe it was correct to not make a move in terms of patching the game.

We just wanted to talk about this a little bit, because it’s important for us to look back at what we have done or what we have not done well in order to learn going forward. And in this scenario, we believe not changing the game was correct, and in similar situations in the future we will try our best to make a similar sort of a call.


LotV balance

We also had discussions both at the summit and with the current top players regarding where we are at in terms of balance changes in LotV. As a whole, there seemed to be a consensus that quick patching could be applied to unstoppable all-ins that many players can easily execute, rather than new units/strategies that will require more time for players to learn to how to react against. We will most likely stick to this concept as we go forward initially with balance updates in LotV.

We also wanted to point out that we saw the ShoutCraft games last weekend, and even though it’s still very early to gauge balance, it’s pretty awesome to see high level games starting up. We’ve also been paying close attention to high level streamers, and wanted to thank everyone who’s been hard at work on playing LotV!

Here are the items we’re currently discussing, but would like to see more examples of actual games:

  • Liberator strength
    • Here, we’re noticing that players could definitely use more time in terms of learning when and where to engage against liberators.
    • Currently, it appears that even the best players in the world don’t quite have this nailed down yet, and while we hope this unit settles in a good place soon, we’ll keep a close watch.

  • PvZ – Slight Protoss weakness
    • We’ve seen games and received feedback from pros regarding this, and we’re currently looking at ways to tune the game in a fun way while helping out Protoss a little bit.

  • Photon Overcharge being too spammable
    • We would like to nerf this eventually, but right now doesn’t seem to be a good timing due to the fact that Protoss doesn’t need nerfs, especially in PvZ.
    • Once we’re in a better place with Protoss, we can take a look at nerfing this ability so that offensive tactics against Protoss are more effective versus players who are lacking any defenses.

  • Nydus All ins
    • We are definitely seeing some games with them. Whether or not they’re completely broken or are at an acceptable state we can determine as we go forward.


With all of that said, it’s still so early to be making judgments on the state of balance, especially since even the highest level players don’t seem to have the game figured out to a high enough degree yet, so please take these things with a grain of salt. We’re very excited that the first major tournament of LotV will happen next week, and I’m sure we will have more to discuss on this front after that. Thank you everyone!


Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys

We heard your suggestion and initially believe this could definitely be better for the game, especially now that the Lurker is added to the game. We will try to prepare a test map to test out this change, but we don’t expect we would need a long time to test out a change like this before committing to it.



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Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 20 2015 19:30 GMT
#2
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
Moderator
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 19:32:25
November 20 2015 19:31 GMT
#3
Nothing about the strength of ravagers (especially in relation to the time they come out). But oh well, I understand they can't look at everything at once and that everything needs time.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
November 20 2015 19:31 GMT
#4
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
November 20 2015 19:32 GMT
#5
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 19:33:44
November 20 2015 19:33 GMT
#6
On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes.

Yes, David.

On November 21 2015 04:32 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was.

Wasn't that Atlantis Spaceship?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
November 20 2015 19:33 GMT
#7
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 20 2015 19:36 GMT
#8
On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.


I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that.
Moderator
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
November 20 2015 19:37 GMT
#9
On November 21 2015 04:36 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.


I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that.

So who do you focus on when Terran is OP and everything is TvT? MMA, Mvp and Polt at once?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
November 20 2015 19:39 GMT
#10
Uuugghh nothing about
- Ultras' Armor
- Parasit Bomb
- Ravager timings...

Well, let's wait for DH to finish and see what we learned from it. But about T being OP or UP in HotS lol, like always, the skill cap is so high, that it can seem to be overpowered sometimes and others simply underwhelming.

Also, David Kim is trying to give us hope on future "big" changes if needed to the game? I am not sure what to except at this point.
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 20 2015 19:40 GMT
#11
On November 21 2015 04:37 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:36 stuchiu wrote:
On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.


I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that.

So who do you focus on when Terran is OP and everything is TvT? MMA, Mvp and Polt at once?


Back in my day you had to defend 11/11s on proxy metalopolis with faster bunker build times with 3 range queens and yous till won.
Moderator
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 20 2015 19:45 GMT
#12
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.

wimps, back in my day you had to invent a matchup while going undefeated for 2 years, beating people with 70%+ winrate
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
ClaudeSc2
Profile Joined May 2014
United States73 Posts
November 20 2015 19:45 GMT
#13
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.


Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
November 20 2015 19:49 GMT
#14
Wait, do I understand correctly, that they are not going to do anything at the moment? All they said in this update was that they are going to keep looking? So why do they do an update? Like, hey people! Everythings fine! Nothing is going to change. Just keep playing.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 19:50:44
November 20 2015 19:50 GMT
#15
On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.


Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG


I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_Cologne

Also like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life.
Moderator
CrazyBread92
Profile Joined March 2013
United States53 Posts
November 20 2015 19:55 GMT
#16
On November 21 2015 04:49 RoomOfMush wrote:
Wait, do I understand correctly, that they are not going to do anything at the moment? All they said in this update was that they are going to keep looking? So why do they do an update? Like, hey people! Everythings fine! Nothing is going to change. Just keep playing.



Would you rather have them be silent about it? For years people have been pissed at Blizzard for being too quiet and now that they are communicating, you want them to go back to not saying anything unless something's happening?
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
November 20 2015 19:59 GMT
#17
On November 21 2015 04:50 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:
On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.


Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG


I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_Cologne

Also like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life.

So he won against a bunch of foreigners, gj
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-11-20 20:08:50
November 20 2015 20:05 GMT
#18
You could throw anyone in from any time from any era of SC2 to that tournament, I dont think any of them can make that run Mvp did without Mvp's build. (well erg players could since they get to use bl/infestor)

just reread this to remember those times:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/385876-lings-of-liberty-the-rise-of-the-patchzergs
Moderator
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
November 20 2015 20:11 GMT
#19
On November 21 2015 05:05 stuchiu wrote:
You could throw anyone in from any time from any era of SC2 to that tournament, I dont think any of them can make that run Mvp did without Mvp's build. (well erg players could since they get to use bl/infestor)

just reread this to remember those times:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/385876-lings-of-liberty-the-rise-of-the-patchzergs

arguments aside, I think 2012 WoL Rain could win that without much trouble
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
November 20 2015 20:15 GMT
#20
Poor DKim, always under tons of complaints

Otherwise, I agree, Mvp is clearly an overrated player who got his 4 GSL by accident. I would go as far as call him a patchterran (expansionterran?)
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