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your Country52797 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
Dayvie wrote:Hello everyone, and welcome to Legacy of the Void! Before we get started, we wanted to let you guys know that we’re thinking of pushing out our new league distribution percentages sometime in December before people go on vacation, and doing a season roll to get the percentages working correctly. This way, we can play during the break on a fresh season with the updated league distributions. Please keep in mind that this will not initiate a reset to your MMR (hidden skill rating), so the quality of matches should not be negatively impacted. Moving on, this week we would like to share topics that came up at our recent community summit, which happened a few days before Blizzcon, as well as in our sessions with the WCS finalists. Barcode issueThere were many discussions on this side, and the conclusion from both the summit and the current top players in the world was that there was little we could change directly within the game to resolve this issue. With that in mind, we may collaborate with our Blizzard Esports team to tackle this issue going forward . We probably don’t need to go into every detail that we talked about here, but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced. However, if we were to integrate the top of the ladder with Esports (such as with WCS points, for example) it might be possible to incentivize players to use their correct IDs on ladder. We have begun discussing the possibilities on our development team in an effort to create the most accurate/transparent ladder, especially at the top. With our current ladder system however, changes doesn’t seem possible due to issues we’ve discussed at BlizzCon. So, as we work to redesign the ladder, we’ll also be in discussions with our Esports team to see what can be done here. KR top pro feedback in generalThere was a misconception among some of the top-tier Korean pro players that if a pro player communicated that something should be changed, then we were expected to make that change. If we did not make that change, some players felt it was pointless to give feedback because we were not listening. We discussed this concept, and realized that it is impossible to just do everything that any pro player says. For example, even in our discussion sessions it was clear that people had completely opposing views. For example, our design team’s perspective was that Terran was the weakest race at the end of HotS, some of the pro players agreed, and others completely disagreed saying Terran was by far the strongest and needed to be nerfed. Examples such as these clearly showed that it’s just impossible and completely unreasonable to expect the game to change if a pro player said one thing. However, what we did get out of this type of misconception was that we can definitely do better in terms of involving more top end players in regular discussions. In order to do so, some ideas were brought up not by just the players, but also by the coaches and managers that were at the event, and we’re currently having internal discussions with both the esports team and the community team to start trying out some of these ideas. We currently don’t have amazing ideas here yet, but the plan is to try out different suggestions and improve upon the process as we go. If you have good ideas on this front, please let us know. Terran weakness in HotSWe had many discussions regarding if Terran needed a patch in HotS or not. The opinions of influencers and pro players ranged heavily from Terran was surely OP to Terran can’t do much + needed to be patched. However, the general consensus was that because Terran weakness towards the end of HotS was only by a small margin, and both pro feedback and community feedback pointed towards the game being well balanced, we believe it was correct to not make a move in terms of patching the game. We just wanted to talk about this a little bit, because it’s important for us to look back at what we have done or what we have not done well in order to learn going forward. And in this scenario, we believe not changing the game was correct, and in similar situations in the future we will try our best to make a similar sort of a call. LotV balanceWe also had discussions both at the summit and with the current top players regarding where we are at in terms of balance changes in LotV. As a whole, there seemed to be a consensus that quick patching could be applied to unstoppable all-ins that many players can easily execute, rather than new units/strategies that will require more time for players to learn to how to react against. We will most likely stick to this concept as we go forward initially with balance updates in LotV. We also wanted to point out that we saw the ShoutCraft games last weekend, and even though it’s still very early to gauge balance, it’s pretty awesome to see high level games starting up. We’ve also been paying close attention to high level streamers, and wanted to thank everyone who’s been hard at work on playing LotV! Here are the items we’re currently discussing, but would like to see more examples of actual games: - Liberator strength
- Here, we’re noticing that players could definitely use more time in terms of learning when and where to engage against liberators.
- Currently, it appears that even the best players in the world don’t quite have this nailed down yet, and while we hope this unit settles in a good place soon, we’ll keep a close watch.
- PvZ – Slight Protoss weakness
- We’ve seen games and received feedback from pros regarding this, and we’re currently looking at ways to tune the game in a fun way while helping out Protoss a little bit.
- Photon Overcharge being too spammable
- We would like to nerf this eventually, but right now doesn’t seem to be a good timing due to the fact that Protoss doesn’t need nerfs, especially in PvZ.
- Once we’re in a better place with Protoss, we can take a look at nerfing this ability so that offensive tactics against Protoss are more effective versus players who are lacking any defenses.
- Nydus All ins
- We are definitely seeing some games with them. Whether or not they’re completely broken or are at an acceptable state we can determine as we go forward.
With all of that said, it’s still so early to be making judgments on the state of balance, especially since even the highest level players don’t seem to have the game figured out to a high enough degree yet, so please take these things with a grain of salt. We’re very excited that the first major tournament of LotV will happen next week, and I’m sure we will have more to discuss on this front after that. Thank you everyone! Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeysWe heard your suggestion and initially believe this could definitely be better for the game, especially now that the Lurker is added to the game. We will try to prepare a test map to test out this change, but we don’t expect we would need a long time to test out a change like this before committing to it.
Source
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
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Nothing about the strength of ravagers (especially in relation to the time they come out). But oh well, I understand they can't look at everything at once and that everything needs time.
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Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes.
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On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was.
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your Country52797 Posts
On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes.
Yes, David.
On November 21 2015 04:32 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was.
Wasn't that Atlantis Spaceship?
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On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home.
I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that.
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On November 21 2015 04:36 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home. I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that.
So who do you focus on when Terran is OP and everything is TvT? MMA, Mvp and Polt at once?
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Uuugghh nothing about
- Ultras' Armor
- Parasit Bomb
- Ravager timings...
Well, let's wait for DH to finish and see what we learned from it. But about T being OP or UP in HotS lol, like always, the skill cap is so high, that it can seem to be overpowered sometimes and others simply underwhelming.
Also, David Kim is trying to give us hope on future "big" changes if needed to the game? I am not sure what to except at this point.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 21 2015 04:37 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:36 stuchiu wrote:On November 21 2015 04:33 Elentos wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. I swear every time you talk about Mvp you sound like a 96-year old man who escaped his retirement home. I'm just waiting until Protoss is clearly overpowered over Terran so I can use the Polt version of that. So who do you focus on when Terran is OP and everything is TvT? MMA, Mvp and Polt at once?
Back in my day you had to defend 11/11s on proxy metalopolis with faster bunker build times with 3 range queens and yous till won.
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On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
wimps, back in my day you had to invent a matchup while going undefeated for 2 years, beating people with 70%+ winrate
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On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won.
Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG
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Wait, do I understand correctly, that they are not going to do anything at the moment? All they said in this update was that they are going to keep looking? So why do they do an update? Like, hey people! Everythings fine! Nothing is going to change. Just keep playing.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG
I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_Cologne
Also like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life.
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On November 21 2015 04:49 RoomOfMush wrote:
Wait, do I understand correctly, that they are not going to do anything at the moment? All they said in this update was that they are going to keep looking? So why do they do an update? Like, hey people! Everythings fine! Nothing is going to change. Just keep playing.
Would you rather have them be silent about it? For years people have been pissed at Blizzard for being too quiet and now that they are communicating, you want them to go back to not saying anything unless something's happening?
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On November 21 2015 04:50 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_CologneAlso like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life.
So he won against a bunch of foreigners, gj
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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arguments aside, I think 2012 WoL Rain could win that without much trouble
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Poor DKim, always under tons of complaints
Otherwise, I agree, Mvp is clearly an overrated player who got his 4 GSL by accident. I would go as far as call him a patchterran (expansionterran?)
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Yea I'll give you 2012 Rain, he really knew how to hit that 3 base timing.
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No mention of parasitic bomb? Really?
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On November 21 2015 05:15 fezvez wrote:
Poor DKim, always under tons of complaints
Otherwise, I agree, Mvp is clearly an overrated player who got his 4 GSL by accident. I would go as far as call him a patchterran (expansionterran?)
There is a difference between agreeing that Mvp was great (MAYBE still the greatest of all time) and overhyping him.
Yes overhyping the best is still possible.
And if we look at this 4 gsl wins (i still think the 2011 GSL World Championship: World Championship is hardly a GSL, but whatever) you can clearly see that 2 of them were in GomTvT times. Not saying that this is that big of a deal, but noteworthy regardless.
But this is the wrog thread to start this debate tbh.
Still sad that Blizzard doesn't see quite obvious design problems like the nydus worm...
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Hmmmm nothing on feedback
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I'm not a Protoss player and I HATED the MSC in HotS but I actually like the spammable PO at the moment. Since it goes on a Pylon it feels more counter-play since you can more easily destroy the Pylon. It has less range so it doesn't feel completely unfair of "don't even think about it."
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Sounds good, I absolutely agree that's it's too early for a balance patch. Especially Protoss will need a long time to adjust to the game. Very happy to see that they agree on Pylon overcharge being to spammable. Nerfing the Ultra armor by 1 sounds like a nobrainer to me, but I guess it's better to wait.
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•PvZ – Slight Protoss weakness
Lol.
User was warned for this post
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I think I like this new approach where they have plenty of things they'd like to tweak eventually, but they will halt the change for a time when the balance is there.
Then they don't have to make up silly changes on the spot when it IS really needed, whether that time is now is a different discussion.
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On November 21 2015 04:33 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes. Yes, David. Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was. Wasn't that Atlantis Spaceship?
Vs Curious? No metropolis
Freaky was Atlantis
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Looks good, thanks for the update.
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your Country52797 Posts
On November 21 2015 06:14 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:33 The_Templar wrote:On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes. Yes, David. On November 21 2015 04:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was. Wasn't that Atlantis Spaceship? Vs Curious? No metropolis Freaky was Atlantis
Yes, I think you can guess which I was thinking of 
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nothing about terran winning every tournament?
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your Country52797 Posts
On November 21 2015 06:46 K)Vincent wrote:
nothing about terran winning every tournament?
Um... what tournaments did they win in LotV?
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On November 21 2015 06:46 K)Vincent wrote:
nothing about terran winning every tournament?
That's not been happening so far so why would they talk about it? I don't think ByuN winning every Olimoleague is worth their attention.
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"Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys"
I long for this feature since the SC2 release.
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Good update. Like to know how things look from their PoV. It seems more th an reasonable to take a 'wait and see' approach to most things seeing how the game hasn't even been out two weeks.
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France12762 Posts
On November 21 2015 04:50 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_CologneAlso like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life.
Why do you have to make me sad making me remember the state of terran in WoL? 
Foreigners zergs destroying korean terrans left and right, dark times.
Waiting is good so props to blizzard on LotV.
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This doesn't really concern balance, but I wish they'd put the co-op missions at the fastest speed.
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It really is quite fascinating reading knee-jerk reactions from posters who are begging Kim to raise their winrate against certain MU rather than learning how to play in a new expansion. In fact, I'll be saving this thread to look back at in 3 months time.
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Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys
We heard your suggestion and initially believe this could definitely be better for the game, especially now that the Lurker is added to the game. We will try to prepare a test map to test out this change, but we don’t expect we would need a long time to test out a change like this before committing to it.
Well done, Jakatak!
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Areas to look into asap:
PvZ balance... Protoss gets shit on in macro games when they don't go heavy robo, Protoss is easily killed by mutas if they go heavy robo. Suggestion: Substantially nerf mutalisks, tune down the amount of workers as the increased amount of workers make economy ramp up so fast that early tech pressure, in particular stargate pressure, is meaningless.
Ultralisk armor is too strong TvZ and ZvP, tune down to +3 at least.
Parasitic Bomb nerfed substantially.
PO to 50energy, seeing HuK throw down 3gates and a forge and halting unit production as a response to a 1base ghost allin to instawin for 25energy cannot be the desired goal.
Tank siege pick up removed. At this point I'm not sure any caster hasnt openly voiced his disgust about it in TvT, how much more negative feedback does it take?
ZvZ early game fixes, very urgent since 2011. Lots of zerg streamer have openly said that they dont enjoy the endless ling/bling rushing in Legacy. And it's not like the matchup has ever been very popular, which last but not least is rooted in the fact that 50% of your games are nothing but braindead ling/bling wars.
Warp Prism 50gas cost added or something along those lines. The unit is just way too strong for its cost at the moment.
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David Kim has one of the hardest jobs in the industry right now, I think. He has to take shit from all sorts of people and respond in way that's appropriate and stuff - It must be hard to navigate through all of that on a daily basis, so props to him for maintaining his job.
"It's important not to freak out"
Yes, yes it is. This new era of gaming where patches are so readily available is so weird to me since I grew up in a fighting game community at arcade where there would be actual people around you in person and if you complained the way I see people complain NOW, you'd probably get called a bitch or worse. I'm so old
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On November 21 2015 04:26 The_Templar wrote:
PvZ – Slight Protoss weakness
Bisu come back?
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On November 21 2015 08:57 Haighstrom wrote:Show nested quote +
Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys
We heard your suggestion and initially believe this could definitely be better for the game, especially now that the Lurker is added to the game. We will try to prepare a test map to test out this change, but we don’t expect we would need a long time to test out a change like this before committing to it.
Well done, Jakatak!
Oh I think this has been suggested a long time ago. Might have been TLO whom I heard talk about it first. I think DK actually responded to it once where he said somewhere along the lines of it making the race easier and he wouldn't want to do that... (yeh shows how primitive his design philosophy at least used to be).
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Dear DK..
While it's still early with the meta and units' stats, the map pool sucks (they LOOK great, but...)
and perhaps this might be the area to tinker with 1st since there are some major tournaments coming along soon and no ammount of hype and passion coming up from the fact you've just realeased a new game can cover the fact that the maps are not pleasent to watch at all.
PLEASE consider
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Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys
We heard your suggestion and initially believe this could definitely be better for the game, especially now that the Lurker is added to the game. We will try to prepare a test map to test out this change, but we don’t expect we would need a long time to test out a change like this before committing to it.
We did it!
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Regardless of whether we agree with individual changes or not, I think I can speak for the community when I say we appreciate the dialogue and initiative to engage with top players / community. This should have been happening in the early days of starcraft...oh what could have been.
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On November 21 2015 07:47 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 04:50 stuchiu wrote:On November 21 2015 04:45 ClaudeSc2 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Except he didn't really. In that GSL he avoided zerg for the Ro32, and Ro16, then took 2 games where Symbol got behind and went Bl infestor, then lost to Life in the finals. Then lost to Gosuuser at some foreign tournament. GG I must have just dreamt this in a fever dream. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VII_-_CologneAlso like how you avoid noting he went 3-4 against Life. Why do you have to make me sad making me remember the state of terran in WoL? Foreigners zergs destroying korean terrans left and right, dark times. Waiting is good so props to blizzard on LotV.
Zergs also beating toss in that bracket. To this day I still do not know how to handle zerg in WOL. Vs toss or terran I feel like I can win if I scout and play well, while verses zerg I feel like I am hoping the zerg lets be win by doing mistakes.
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On November 21 2015 09:58 Saturator wrote:
Dear DK..
While it's still early with the meta and units' stats, the map pool sucks (they LOOK great, but...)
and perhaps this might be the area to tinker with 1st since there are some major tournaments coming along soon and no ammount of hype and passion coming up from the fact you've just realeased a new game can cover the fact that the maps are not pleasent to watch at all.
PLEASE consider
this right here.
i think part of the reason Z is strong right now is that most of the maps are very wide open and have barely any chokes or other terrain features to exploit, except for the forward choke on ulrena.
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I am happy they are continuing community update, this is awesome.
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Ravagers need to be lair tech (and they seem a bit too fast for how large they are... it's silly to watch), and parasitic bomb is a bit too strong.
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On November 21 2015 14:23 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Ravagers need to be lair tech (and they seem a bit too fast for how large they are... it's silly to watch), and parasitic bomb is a bit too strong.
This ^^ and lots more....
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36990 Posts
On November 21 2015 13:00 ETisME wrote:
I am happy they are continuing community update, this is awesome.
Agreed. Wish they did this back in WoL days but better late than never 
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On November 21 2015 06:42 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 06:14 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:33 The_Templar wrote:On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes. Yes, David. On November 21 2015 04:32 Cricketer12 wrote:On November 21 2015 04:30 stuchiu wrote:
Wimps, back in my day you had to play with a weak race on bad maps with a broken back and jet lag and against bl/infestor and you still won. Or you use BCs on Metropolis and lose to mass infested terran. You know how it was. Wasn't that Atlantis Spaceship? Vs Curious? No metropolis Freaky was Atlantis Yes, I think you can guess which I was thinking of
Curious right?
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Revert Marauders to HotS: Terran cannot deal with ravagers and prism-adepts all-in
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so terran was slightly weak at the end of hots but that was ok because game was overall balanced. This makes no freaking sense, If terran was weak then it was not balanced.
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Invulnerable low to zero counter play nydus worm still being in this game is perplexing to me.
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On November 21 2015 17:39 avilo wrote:
Invulnerable low to zero counter play nydus worm still being in this game is perplexing to me.
"But but it adds so much action to the game....."
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I liked those weekly updates during the beta, but I'm unsure they're needed as often right now.
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As a Z player, ever since WoL I wished for some major Z early game changes. The way it always felt and still feels right now is just the following: You try to get to three base without losing too much stuff to early harass. Then you mass drone up, prepare some buildings and upgrades and then you have to find the magic timing spot where you start mass pumping your favorite unit combination (via scouting or rough knowledge of opponent race timings). If you miss that magic timing spot you lose, if you hit it you almost always win (unless you make major mistakes regarding battles or your unit composition). Of course there are various intricacies along the way but this is most certainly how the vast majority of game time is spent.
On the other hand we have literally 0 tools to apply pressure ourselves in the early game. Ling and roach pressure is easily countered by just walling off properly, while our bases are pretty vulnerable since other races have drop play and air units so easily integrated into their standard build orders, whereas by far the most effective Zerg meta only arrives at drop tech or stuff like lurkers relatively late in the game unless you do some stuff like Nydus all ins.
The mid and late game has actually gotten significantly better in this regard with HotS and LotV, but early to mid game still just feels kind of boring. Also ZvZ ling baneling stuff is just cancer. Don't know if Blizz would be brave enough to do stuff like rebalance hydras and roaches in a major fashion, make hydra t1 but weaker and faster, make roach something like a really fast tanking unit with low damage or something. Just not this.
But then again, maybe this is just what Zerg is supposed to be (always on defense until you get the swarm up and running). But Brood War felt way different in this regards, imo. What do you think about it?
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On November 21 2015 18:56 PinoKotsBeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 17:39 avilo wrote:
Invulnerable low to zero counter play nydus worm still being in this game is perplexing to me. "But but it adds so much action to the game....."
"we thought invincible nydus worms are pretty cool gameplay, you can see it but not destroy it lol. When done as an allin the chance is pretty high that the zerg will destroy a lot of workers, which is one of the most exciting aspects of starcraft"
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On November 21 2015 09:02 Big J wrote:
Areas to look into asap:
PvZ balance... Protoss gets shit on in macro games when they don't go heavy robo, Protoss is easily killed by mutas if they go heavy robo. Suggestion: Substantially nerf mutalisks, tune down the amount of workers as the increased amount of workers make economy ramp up so fast that early tech pressure, in particular stargate pressure, is meaningless.
Ultralisk armor is too strong TvZ and ZvP, tune down to +3 at least.
Parasitic Bomb nerfed substantially.
PO to 50energy, seeing HuK throw down 3gates and a forge and halting unit production as a response to a 1base ghost allin to instawin for 25energy cannot be the desired goal.
Tank siege pick up removed. At this point I'm not sure any caster hasnt openly voiced his disgust about it in TvT, how much more negative feedback does it take?
ZvZ early game fixes, very urgent since 2011. Lots of zerg streamer have openly said that they dont enjoy the endless ling/bling rushing in Legacy. And it's not like the matchup has ever been very popular, which last but not least is rooted in the fact that 50% of your games are nothing but braindead ling/bling wars.
Warp Prism 50gas cost added or something along those lines. The unit is just way too strong for its cost at the moment.
Completely agree with all of this, but I can only repeat myself: If you nerf parasite bomb without nerfing Protoss and Terran Air, Zerg is going to be screwed. It's currently the only weapon we have right now against the heavily buffed air armies.
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On November 21 2015 21:43 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 09:02 Big J wrote:
Areas to look into asap:
PvZ balance... Protoss gets shit on in macro games when they don't go heavy robo, Protoss is easily killed by mutas if they go heavy robo. Suggestion: Substantially nerf mutalisks, tune down the amount of workers as the increased amount of workers make economy ramp up so fast that early tech pressure, in particular stargate pressure, is meaningless.
Ultralisk armor is too strong TvZ and ZvP, tune down to +3 at least.
Parasitic Bomb nerfed substantially.
PO to 50energy, seeing HuK throw down 3gates and a forge and halting unit production as a response to a 1base ghost allin to instawin for 25energy cannot be the desired goal.
Tank siege pick up removed. At this point I'm not sure any caster hasnt openly voiced his disgust about it in TvT, how much more negative feedback does it take?
ZvZ early game fixes, very urgent since 2011. Lots of zerg streamer have openly said that they dont enjoy the endless ling/bling rushing in Legacy. And it's not like the matchup has ever been very popular, which last but not least is rooted in the fact that 50% of your games are nothing but braindead ling/bling wars.
Warp Prism 50gas cost added or something along those lines. The unit is just way too strong for its cost at the moment. Completely agree with all of this, but I can only repeat myself: If you nerf parasite bomb without nerfing Protoss and Terran Air, Zerg is going to be screwed. It's currently the only weapon we have right now against the heavily buffed air armies.
A good change would be to make it non stackable AND make it easier to see on which unit the spell was casted on
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On November 21 2015 21:55 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 21:43 KeksX wrote:On November 21 2015 09:02 Big J wrote:
Areas to look into asap:
PvZ balance... Protoss gets shit on in macro games when they don't go heavy robo, Protoss is easily killed by mutas if they go heavy robo. Suggestion: Substantially nerf mutalisks, tune down the amount of workers as the increased amount of workers make economy ramp up so fast that early tech pressure, in particular stargate pressure, is meaningless.
Ultralisk armor is too strong TvZ and ZvP, tune down to +3 at least.
Parasitic Bomb nerfed substantially.
PO to 50energy, seeing HuK throw down 3gates and a forge and halting unit production as a response to a 1base ghost allin to instawin for 25energy cannot be the desired goal.
Tank siege pick up removed. At this point I'm not sure any caster hasnt openly voiced his disgust about it in TvT, how much more negative feedback does it take?
ZvZ early game fixes, very urgent since 2011. Lots of zerg streamer have openly said that they dont enjoy the endless ling/bling rushing in Legacy. And it's not like the matchup has ever been very popular, which last but not least is rooted in the fact that 50% of your games are nothing but braindead ling/bling wars.
Warp Prism 50gas cost added or something along those lines. The unit is just way too strong for its cost at the moment. Completely agree with all of this, but I can only repeat myself: If you nerf parasite bomb without nerfing Protoss and Terran Air, Zerg is going to be screwed. It's currently the only weapon we have right now against the heavily buffed air armies. A good change would be to make it non stackable AND make it easier to see on which unit the spell was casted on
Visual cue yes, but the stacking would be a nerf. And I really don't see how Zerg would hold up against air with that. It's already problematic as is(Air play in general).
Honestly, at this point I'd just like to see a global damage nerf. Shit deals too much damage. There's too many (delayed) oneshots in this game atm. It's fun and all, but I think it'd be better if we had more lenient damage values. If that is the right word.
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Well yes the stacking would be a nerf , but i think it would be a good one.
The spell would still be quite strong, but counterplay would be a lot easier which is a good thing imo
Honestly, at this point I'd just like to see a global damage nerf. Shit deals too much damage
Creates a parasitic cloud that deals 90 damage over 7 seconds to the target and enemy air units nearby. If the target dies, the cloud remains in the air where the enemy unit died until it expires.
It deals so much damage BECAUSE it stacks
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On November 21 2015 22:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:Well yes the stacking would be a nerf , but i think it would be a good one. The spell would still be quite strong, but counterplay would be a lot easier which is a good thing imo Show nested quote +Honestly, at this point I'd just like to see a global damage nerf. Shit deals too much damage Show nested quote +Creates a parasitic cloud that deals 90 damage over 7 seconds to the target and enemy air units nearby. If the target dies, the cloud remains in the air where the enemy unit died until it expires. It deals so much damage BECAUSE it stacks
Yeah and it has to deal so much damage because Liberators deal so much damage, and Carriers deal so much damage, and so on ...
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I don't agree with this, the aoe effect alone would be good enough. It should be a spell which helps you against air, not destroys air.
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On November 21 2015 22:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't agree with this, the aoe effect alone would be good enough. It should be a spell which helps you against air, not destroys air.
Liberators are exactly the same though, difference being you don't need mana and they're earlier on the field. But they still completely annihilate any non-Viper based Zerg army.
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RE: changing ZvZ early game, what if you give the queen something like +2 to light to help it deal with zerglings? Or for a silly suggestion, add spikes to the spine crawler to make melee units take damage or something like that. It's already spiny, why not make it spiky as well? (...) Or maybe more reasonably, change transfusion to the campaign version where it gives health over time, which is superior in the early game while facing zerglings versus the current transfusion.
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in Ulrena I just send my MSC to terran base in PvT lol most of the time it ends 2minutes after. In PvP just sneak and warp 2-3 pylons in mineral line and insta win (plat-dia) . Im not saying its broken. But i think that map is the problem lol
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On November 21 2015 09:02 Big J wrote:
Areas to look into asap:
until WCS 2016 is announced with dates and a schedule i'm not sure anything is urgent.
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On November 21 2015 22:38 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2015 22:36 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't agree with this, the aoe effect alone would be good enough. It should be a spell which helps you against air, not destroys air.
Liberators are exactly the same though, difference being you don't need mana and they're earlier on the field. But they still completely annihilate any non-Viper based Zerg army.
Liberators are actually garbage against Corruptors, as well as Carriers and especially Tempests, and they're actually bad in small numbers.
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rofl, I would be happy if people who expect me to change my game based on their opinion won't give feedback anymore haha.
They should bring back Valks, they were only good in small numbers against big number of units. I know people think this is bad game design. But if it allows a race to use a whole different build, then I would say its good design.
Liberators are just meh, as if Terran would need another mass it lategame unit.
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On November 22 2015 01:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:until WCS 2016 is announced with dates and a schedule i'm not sure anything is urgent.
I'm not participating in WCS 2016 and I don't see a connection between that and my potential gaming experience.
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Air is hate, air is death.
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haven't touched SC2 in a while but it's pretty nice to see the changes outside the balance, ladder on sc2 always felt bland
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Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better (or rather worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button.
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On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better(worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button.
But the same thing could happen in ZvZ in HotS and LotV.
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On November 22 2015 05:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better(worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button. But the same thing could happen in ZvZ in HotS and LotV.
I'm not sure if this is a statment that should contradict me, or support my cause that the matchup has been considered total crap for almost all its existance.
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I'd prefer no patches for 3 months, give us 3 full months of pros playing the game to see what's truly going on.
though I do think photon overcharge is an easy get out of jail free card, but leave it for now, zerg has ravagers and terran has medivac siege tanks
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On November 22 2015 05:18 emc wrote:
I'd prefer no patches for 3 months, give us 3 full months of pros playing the game to see what's truly going on.
though I do think photon overcharge is an easy get out of jail free card, but leave it for now, zerg has ravagers and terran has medivac siege tanks
I agree, I thought the game would be utter garbage at release but it's actually pretty good -at least, I'm having a blast playing it. Ofc Z is probably a bit too strong, and the map pool isn't exactly the best, but some months of experimentation without WCS can do no harm.
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Northern Ireland24446 Posts
The map pool is pretty goddamn awful, it's difficult enough to ascertain the state of balance without having to it on such a sub-par pool. A better pool might go some way to mitigating perceived imbalances, or at the very least it wouldn't do any harm.
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On November 22 2015 05:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
The map pool is pretty goddamn awful, it's difficult enough to ascertain the state of balance without having to it on such a sub-par pool. A better pool might go some way to mitigating perceived imbalances, or at the very least it wouldn't do any harm.
Exactly, the map pool was just a huge mistake and probably the main thing that is demotivating me to play. I'd be okay to wait out some changes and let the game play out a bit if the maps were actually playable. But the maps are awful and they distort balance even more which is gonna make balancing even harder in the long run. Right when a game is released and there are tons of balance problems, going for a completely bizarre map pool makes literally zero sense. Blizzard should've given us the most boring, stale maps at the start so they can balance the game, then maybe add their weird, awful maps later on when the game is a bit more stable.
I'm all for making slow changes to LotV in terms of balance, but the sabotage they did to the game through the map pool is unacceptable
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On November 21 2015 04:31 Cricketer12 wrote:
Its important not to freak out. The game just came out. Let people try to figure stuff out before making balance changes.
That is something I've come to realize and dislike about the StarCraft 2 community lately.
A map is weird or map pool is non-standard?
- Everything is broken and stupid.
A unit seems really strong but people have only been playing the game for a week?
- The unit is OP and needs to be nerfed immediately; there is nothing anyone can ever do.
It's really saddening. Think of the SaviOr difference.
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On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better (or rather worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button.
Well it all goes on opinion. For me I hate mirror match ups in general. I would never ever watch a zvz/pvp/tvt tournament. So boring.
ZvZ has always been lame, but if I were Terran or Protoss I would think the same thing for all mirror MU's like I do now.
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On November 22 2015 08:28 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better (or rather worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button. Well it all goes on opinion. For me I hate mirror match ups in general. I would never ever watch a zvz/pvp/tvt tournament. So boring. ZvZ has always been lame, but if I were Terran or Protoss I would think the same thing for all mirror MU's like I do now.
I think a lot of people, especially Terrans have been quite happy with the TvT mirror. And talking about ZvZ, I believe the matchup was reasonable in WoL times of roach/hydra/infestor, even if on rare occurances it ended with BL wars. Also PvP at times can look very exciting and I have high hopes for it in LotV with expansion play being as viable as never before and disruptors replacing colossi.
But in ZvZ it's still like in the PvP 4gate era. Similar to 4gates people have figured out how to stop the ling/bling rushes and how to mirror them and often normal games can develop. But many games just don't and there is no real way to just strategically counter your opponent when he goes for it.
Anyways, I'm back to talking my mouth fuzzy about things that I can't influence. If DK likes the status quo and the game sells it's probably time to admit defeat.
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On November 22 2015 09:05 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 08:28 blade55555 wrote:On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better (or rather worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button. Well it all goes on opinion. For me I hate mirror match ups in general. I would never ever watch a zvz/pvp/tvt tournament. So boring. ZvZ has always been lame, but if I were Terran or Protoss I would think the same thing for all mirror MU's like I do now. I think a lot of people, especially Terrans have been quite happy with the TvT mirror. And talking about ZvZ, I believe the matchup was reasonable in WoL times of roach/hydra/infestor, even if on rare occurances it ended with BL wars. Also PvP at times can look very exciting and I have high hopes for it in LotV with expansion play being as viable as never before and disruptors replacing colossi. But in ZvZ it's still like in the PvP 4gate era. Similar to 4gates people have figured out how to stop the ling/bling rushes and how to mirror them and often normal games can develop. But many games just don't and there is no real way to just strategically counter your opponent when he goes for it. Anyways, I'm back to talking my mouth fuzzy about things that I can't influence. If DK likes the status quo and the game sells it's probably time to admit defeat.
I've switched to random for a time, but as a Terran I find the TvT match-up to be very stale, though it's stable. A lot of the harassment early game is defeated with the Cyclone, so midgame is often Marine/Tank with either Liberators or Vikings.
Not much variation like there was in late WoL and HotS.
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On November 22 2015 05:18 emc wrote:
I'd prefer no patches for 3 months, give us 3 full months of pros playing the game to see what's truly going on.
though I do think photon overcharge is an easy get out of jail free card, but leave it for now, zerg has ravagers and terran has medivac siege tanks
I prefer if we just nerf all zerg units by 80% and then let's see what the game is for a couple of months so pro's can figure it out. Becasue we can never say anything about balance until pro's have played on an unpatched game for 3 months...
ORRR MAYBE we could do the logical thing and reevaluate the game on a case by case basis instead of following stupid rules that that is terrible for the health of the game just because it was like that in BW.
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On November 21 2015 17:39 avilo wrote:
Invulnerable low to zero counter play nydus worm still being in this game is perplexing to me.
I totally agree with that.
In TvZ you have to start mass bio and check everywhere eraly game to have a little chance not to be rekt
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On November 22 2015 05:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 05:06 Elentos wrote:On November 22 2015 05:03 Big J wrote:
Funny, I open TakeTV, they discuss what's better(worse), ZvZ or PvP. "Stalker/Disruptor is really cool", "Yeah but Ravager/Roach is cool too", "Yeah, but we never get to see that because games never get there".
I switch stream to BasetradeTV: "We would never do an only ZvZ tournament. Like guys, do you really want to cast as twenty 14/14s in a row?"
...
and that's why I still haven't bought this game, as a Zerg player 33% of my time is automatically wasted when I press the search opponent button. But the same thing could happen in ZvZ in HotS and LotV. I'm not sure if this is a statment that should contradict me, or support my cause that the matchup has been considered total crap for almost all its existance.
I would say zvz is much better in lotv if only they found a way to deal with the early pools.
Ravagers and lurkers really changed up the mid to late vame
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My thoughts.
Hello everyone, and welcome to Legacy of the Void! Before we get started, we wanted to let you guys know that we’re thinking of pushing out our new league distribution percentages sometime in December before people go on vacation, and doing a season roll to get the percentages working correctly. This way, we can play during the break on a fresh season with the updated league distributions. Please keep in mind that this will not initiate a reset to your MMR (hidden skill rating), so the quality of matches should not be negatively impacted.
Questions are still unanswered about the specific details of this new league distribution in the ladder revamp.
Is the %'s for each league, the % of all players or the % of active players or something else?
When you say Master is the top 4%, Diamond is the next 23%, 4% of what? 23% of what?
The league boundaries have been known to drift out of their target % over time, with Blizzard only fixing it when a sufficient number of players notice and complain on the forums, so what will you do so that we know you will actually hit these %s?
Also, tying the ladder to WCS makes sense once the ladder has actually been fixed up.
Barcode issue
There were many discussions on this side, and the conclusion from both the summit and the current top players in the world was that there was little we could change directly within the game to resolve this issue. With that in mind, we may collaborate with our Blizzard Esports team to tackle this issue going forward . We probably don’t need to go into every detail that we talked about here, but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced.
However, if we were to integrate the top of the ladder with Esports (such as with WCS points, for example) it might be possible to incentivize players to use their correct IDs on ladder. We have begun discussing the possibilities on our development team in an effort to create the most accurate/transparent ladder, especially at the top. With our current ladder system however, changes doesn’t seem possible due to issues we’ve discussed at BlizzCon. So, as we work to redesign the ladder, we’ll also be in discussions with our Esports team to see what can be done here.
The solution is simple. Auto force all names that contain only "I", "l" and "|" to be renamed using a random name generator.
Alternatively, use a font that clearly differentiates between "I", "l" and "|" and see how anonymous these barcode players really feel then. More anonymous than naming them all "Anonymous"? lol
but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced.
Pros are feeding you superstitious bullshit, this suggestion would, as a matter of pure logic, be even more anonymous and foolproof than even barcodes.
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Looking forward to all the shenanigans in the first LotV tournaments ^^
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On November 22 2015 22:27 paralleluniverse wrote:My thoughts. Show nested quote +Hello everyone, and welcome to Legacy of the Void! Before we get started, we wanted to let you guys know that we’re thinking of pushing out our new league distribution percentages sometime in December before people go on vacation, and doing a season roll to get the percentages working correctly. This way, we can play during the break on a fresh season with the updated league distributions. Please keep in mind that this will not initiate a reset to your MMR (hidden skill rating), so the quality of matches should not be negatively impacted. Questions are still unanswered about the specific details of this new league distribution in the ladder revamp. Is the %'s for each league, the % of all players or the % of active players or something else? When you say Master is the top 4%, Diamond is the next 23%, 4% of what? 23% of what? The league boundaries have been known to drift out of their target % over time, with Blizzard only fixing it when a sufficient number of players notice and complain on the forums, so what will you do so that we know you will actually hit these %s? Also, tying the ladder to WCS makes sense once the ladder has actually been fixed up. Show nested quote +Barcode issue
There were many discussions on this side, and the conclusion from both the summit and the current top players in the world was that there was little we could change directly within the game to resolve this issue. With that in mind, we may collaborate with our Blizzard Esports team to tackle this issue going forward . We probably don’t need to go into every detail that we talked about here, but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced.
However, if we were to integrate the top of the ladder with Esports (such as with WCS points, for example) it might be possible to incentivize players to use their correct IDs on ladder. We have begun discussing the possibilities on our development team in an effort to create the most accurate/transparent ladder, especially at the top. With our current ladder system however, changes doesn’t seem possible due to issues we’ve discussed at BlizzCon. So, as we work to redesign the ladder, we’ll also be in discussions with our Esports team to see what can be done here. The solution is simple. Auto force all names that contain only "I", "l" and "|" to be renamed using a random name generator. Alternatively, use a font that clearly differentiates between "I", "l" and "|" and see how anonymous these barcode players really feel then. More anonymous than naming them all "Anonymous"? lol Show nested quote +but the general consensus (especially from the top end pro players who currently use barcodes) was that even if we went so far as to show “anonymous” instead of player names on the loading screen, removed match history, and more, players still felt it would be safer to barcode even if the advantage is less pronounced. Pros are feeding you superstitious bullshit, this suggestion would, as a matter of pure logic, be even more anonymous and foolproof than even barcodes.
Take away 'barcodes' and everyone will just use an identical name. The only solution is to force unique Bnet IDs which won't happen.
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If i were to play lotv i would most likely not like the mirror mus, especially zvz.
Zvz were terrible in hots, cant speak of now but i am skeptical. Can totally understand why not to buy this game since you will dislike 33% of the matchups.
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I dont get why they dont adjust maximum energy, and energy regeneration on certain units.
Sentries, with 75 energy max. But three times the regeneration, would allow for only 3 FF per sentry. (adjust hallucination manacost accordingly). This would have stopped the huge forcefield banks - while giving the sentry a more active role
A similar probem now exists with the MSc. You can just bank 8 photon overcharges and absolutely devastate any aggression. If its more limited - this banking wouldnt be so much a problem
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On November 21 2015 13:00 ETisME wrote:
I am happy they are continuing community update, this is awesome.
You are right me too
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On November 23 2015 03:12 weikor wrote:
I dont get why they dont adjust maximum energy, and energy regeneration on certain units.
Sentries, with 75 energy max. But three times the regeneration, would allow for only 3 FF per sentry. (adjust hallucination manacost accordingly). This would have stopped the huge forcefield banks - while giving the sentry a more active role
A similar probem now exists with the MSc. You can just bank 8 photon overcharges and absolutely devastate any aggression. If its more limited - this banking wouldnt be so much a problem
The whole concept of energy is archaic and completely antithetical to Blizzard's goals. If Blizzard ever creates a new RTS game expect it to virtually disappear and be replaced by a system more resembling any of their current iterations in D3, HotS, WoW etc. All the new systems do not allow you to run out of energy for more than a second (which players might find frustrating and unintuitive) and rely heavily on cooldowns to limit ability usage.
Blizzard wants to control your user experience and they might not appreciate the strategic implications of the energy concept since it encourages players to be extreme in their handling of caster units (cast nothing to preserve energy, cast everything to win a fight) and building in safeguards into their game is too difficult. Personally I like the idea that energy is a resource and that casters should therefore be nurtured and guarded and that your opponent should try to force you to use your energy in order to keep your reserves low. That naturally creates a lot of strategy and interactions, but gives you freedom to abuse it if your opponent doesn't check you.
RE: sentries, caster units in the early game are fundamentally wrong because you can just wall off and save up energy for a timing. It was always obvious that allowing sentries to scale in power with numbers would only leave timing windows open, because they create a state of being untouchable defensively and gaining in power until you max out on energy. Lowering the maximum energy is an obvious solution, but it breaks the 200 energy standard for every other spell caster, though it should have been considered by Blizzard.
Imagine if snipe was still at its old strength and ghosts were at the same tech level as marauders, you would have so many timings where you would build up energy on 4-5 ghosts and crush your opponent. In the case of protoss and sentries this is of course exacerbated by warpgate, though at least that was more or less fixed.
In defense of Blizzard, I do think that there was no obvious reason to even consider differentiating in maximum energy levels during early development since if energy reserves would ever be problematic they could always consider finetuning the global energy regeneration (which is a hidden value anyway), or, for specific cases, adjust unit and spell costs. Or even replace a spell by an ability with a cooldown. This method starts to fail with early game units, since that doesn't lead itself very well to generic RTS dynamics since there are all these specific timings, and in the case of the mothership core it's weird for being a unique unit.
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On November 23 2015 02:28 ZAiNs wrote:
Take away 'barcodes' and everyone will just use an identical name. The only solution is to force unique Bnet IDs which won't happen.
What's wrong with people using identical names?
The problem with barcodes is that they are gibberish. Identical names, like "Anonymous", that are non-gibberish are fine.
If they want people to use their real names, tie ladder into WCS (but only after they fix the ladder).
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On November 21 2015 04:26 Dayvie wrote:[*]Photon Overcharge being too spammable - We would like to nerf this eventually, but right now doesn’t seem to be a good timing due to the fact that Protoss doesn’t need nerfs, especially in PvZ.
- Once we’re in a better place with Protoss, we can take a look at nerfing this ability so that offensive tactics against Protoss are more effective versus players who are lacking any defenses.
Am I the only one confused here? Does this not seem entirely backwards to anyone else?
So their plan is to wait until they figure out a way to make Protoss more powerful... so they can then make sweeping changes (nerfs) to Protoss early game defense... which will obviously necessitate a whole host of follow up changes (buffs)?
First of all, it's Zerg that's too strong and not Protoss that's too weak. I mean, Protoss might be too weak, but that's so secondary it might even be tertiary. But that's beside the point. Best case scenario with this plan, the problem is now dragged out over months because they want to do things one at a time instead of just peeling the band-aid off and fixing all the problems in one go.
Worst case scenario, though, is a complete clusterfuck.
They're going to buff Protoss's midgame based on Protoss having a certain kind of early game, and then they're going to nerf Protoss's early game. They're buffing Protoss in one meta, and then completely changing the meta. What if those buffs are completely invalidated, because going for (for example) buffed Immortals is simply not an option without PO spam, because too much cash has to be invested into early Gateways, Pylons, and defense units, and setting up Robo infrastructure is too slow? What then? Best case, they revert the Immortal buff so it doesn't unintentionally fuck up any other parts of the game, and start the buffs from scratch, dragging this out further. Worst case, they keep the now-redundant buffs in the game as they have so often done throughout WoL/HotS and buff other shit on top of that.
Never mind the fact that the other two races' balance also hinges on PO. How can Blizzard make any adjustments to Z/T early game that are not prejudiced by the existence of PO in its current state? Or are they not going to touch the other races until Protoss is sorted out?
Is there an upside to dragging this out that I'm missing? All I see is innumerous ways this decision can very subtly fuck with the balancing of LotV in the coming months.
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I think its because the PO is a core in the marketing design of the game to make it easy for low players to defend, so the game is being forced into a meta where you can defend with PO + very little in early game for everyone. I don't trust DK justifications, I think they may just be lies. Like, who is "we" and what are you actually trying to do with this game in general ? Just lines of words about little details, uncertainty.. No plan. Or hidden marketing plans and pretending, seems more likely to me. Mixture of both.
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No big changes until you fix the damn map pool.
So bad for Protoss right now I picked the wrong moment to switch races
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Splitting out Burrow and unburrow abilities to 2 different slots/hotkeys
5 years... 5 fucking years....
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SERIOUSLY BLIZZARD. u'r saying right things but u miss the most important one.... stated that lurker's are quite broken, toss is weak ecc., maybe you should take a look on ULTRALISKS which are seriously broken right now... nerf them and nerf a little bit the lurkers and the game will be fine.
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On November 23 2015 14:15 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I don't trust DK justifications, I think they may just be lies. Like, who is "we" and what are you actually trying to do with this game in general ? Just lines of words about little details, uncertainty.. No plan. Or hidden marketing plans and pretending, seems more likely to me. Mixture of both.
I've been saying this for ages. Everytime he gives an explanation or justification it seems so pulled out of the ass. "Their" concepts and ideas of new units/abilities and overall game balance and design are beyond comprehension, and is not consistant. All i see is "them" trying to both make this game more appealing to casuals and at the same time be more micro orientated. Not only these things are mostly mutually exclusive, but first one is simply in vein due to its impossibility, while second is VERY arguable.
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The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history.
Apart from that, i'm still waiting to see that elusive "mech" in TvP and TvZ. Right now i hate playing Terran.
EDIT: the only positive thing i have to say about Terran is the new Reaper bombs.
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On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history.
Apart from that, i'm still waiting to see that elusive "mech" in TvP and TvZ. Right now i hate playing Terran.
EDIT: the only positive thing i have to say about Terran is the new Reaper bombs.
Mech has not been viable ever in TvP and terrible when played against Z so you´r time with SC2 must have been terrible
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On November 24 2015 02:41 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history.
Apart from that, i'm still waiting to see that elusive "mech" in TvP and TvZ. Right now i hate playing Terran.
EDIT: the only positive thing i have to say about Terran is the new Reaper bombs. Mech has not been viable ever in TvP and terrible when played against Z so you´r time with SC2 must have been terrible
It worked at my level so i had some fun. At pro level, TvT was awesome and TvZ marine tank vs ling bling muta was very good to. Hate deathball Protoss and ZvZ.
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On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history.
Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series?
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On November 24 2015 03:56 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history. Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series?
If it's the Sandisk ShoutCraft Invitational II, I did just today actually. The series was fun i think, because of some interesting comebacks.The MU looses a lot of tactical and positioning decisions with Tank pick up IMO. If you take the games by themself instead of as a series, i think they are much worse then HOTS TvT, more chaotic and random. At least that's how i feel right now.
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On November 24 2015 04:50 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 03:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history. Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series? If it's the Sandisk ShoutCraft Invitational II, I did just today actually. The series was fun i think, because of some interesting comebacks.The MU looses a lot of tactical and positioning decisions with Tank pick up IMO. If you take the games by themself instead of as a series, i think they are much worse then HOTS TvT, more chaotic and random. At least that's how i feel right now.
I'm against siege pickups in principle, but in practice that series has gone a long way to convincing me that the world isn't ending. There might have been chaotic and random shit in those games, but I don't think that can be directly attributed to siege pickups in any way. Defender still has a huge advantage now that the attack cooldown has been introduced. And with Cyclones stabilizing the early game, I think TvT might actually even improve in the long run.
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On November 24 2015 05:03 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 04:50 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 24 2015 03:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history. Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series? If it's the Sandisk ShoutCraft Invitational II, I did just today actually. The series was fun i think, because of some interesting comebacks.The MU looses a lot of tactical and positioning decisions with Tank pick up IMO. If you take the games by themself instead of as a series, i think they are much worse then HOTS TvT, more chaotic and random. At least that's how i feel right now. I'm against siege pickups in principle, but in practice that series has gone a long way to convincing me that the world isn't ending. There might have been chaotic and random shit in those games, but I don't think that can be directly attributed to siege pickups in any way. Defender still has a huge advantage now that the attack cooldown has been introduced. And with Cyclones stabilizing the early game, I think TvT might actually even improve in the long run.
I hope you are right for the future, but right now i see the disadvantages being far bigger then the advantages. TvT was a very strategical MU with lines of tanks and marines or hellions looking to exploit space and position, and now i feel it devolves in to yolo balls of marines and tanks in medivacs.
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On November 24 2015 05:15 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 05:03 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 04:50 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 24 2015 03:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history. Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series? If it's the Sandisk ShoutCraft Invitational II, I did just today actually. The series was fun i think, because of some interesting comebacks.The MU looses a lot of tactical and positioning decisions with Tank pick up IMO. If you take the games by themself instead of as a series, i think they are much worse then HOTS TvT, more chaotic and random. At least that's how i feel right now. I'm against siege pickups in principle, but in practice that series has gone a long way to convincing me that the world isn't ending. There might have been chaotic and random shit in those games, but I don't think that can be directly attributed to siege pickups in any way. Defender still has a huge advantage now that the attack cooldown has been introduced. And with Cyclones stabilizing the early game, I think TvT might actually even improve in the long run. I hope you are right for the future, but right now i see the disadvantages being far bigger then the advantages. TvT was a very strategical MU with lines of tanks and marines or hellions looking to exploit space and position, and now i feel it devolves in to yolo balls of marines and tanks in medivacs.
TvT was my second fav MU in HotS so I hope I'm right too. :/
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On November 24 2015 05:16 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 05:15 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 24 2015 05:03 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 04:50 Sapphire.lux wrote:On November 24 2015 03:56 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 24 2015 01:32 Sapphire.lux wrote:
The Tank siege pick up has really ruined TvT for me as both a player and a spectator. It's just derp speed medivacs around with much less tactics and positioning thinking. The occasional tank harass is not worth the trade of the best mirror in SC2 history. Out of curiosity, did you watch ByuN vs TY? Did you think that siege pickup ruined that series? If it's the Sandisk ShoutCraft Invitational II, I did just today actually. The series was fun i think, because of some interesting comebacks.The MU looses a lot of tactical and positioning decisions with Tank pick up IMO. If you take the games by themself instead of as a series, i think they are much worse then HOTS TvT, more chaotic and random. At least that's how i feel right now. I'm against siege pickups in principle, but in practice that series has gone a long way to convincing me that the world isn't ending. There might have been chaotic and random shit in those games, but I don't think that can be directly attributed to siege pickups in any way. Defender still has a huge advantage now that the attack cooldown has been introduced. And with Cyclones stabilizing the early game, I think TvT might actually even improve in the long run. I hope you are right for the future, but right now i see the disadvantages being far bigger then the advantages. TvT was a very strategical MU with lines of tanks and marines or hellions looking to exploit space and position, and now i feel it devolves in to yolo balls of marines and tanks in medivacs. TvT was my second fav MU in HotS so I hope I'm right too. :/
The early game Reaper stuff and the one or two Cyclones for defense or pressure were awesome no question about it.
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I am enjoying their more straight up talk about whats going on with the game these days.
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EPT
