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It began here. Long story short, I played a PvZ game in LotV beta. My opponent went for a 1 base baneling bust, which I luckily scouted (very luckily - my probe saw the baneling nest going down), held and won the game. The build appeared pretty strong if unscouted even against gateway expand, so I wondered how succesful it generally was. However, my PM after the game apparently was thought to be offensive/provocative and my opponent replied as if it was indeed offensive. And thus I learned the hard way that I apparently should not PM people after winning the game, unless I apologize for even trying to dare, because if I don't, I invite aggresive behaviour which in that case would be acceptable.
After reading the BM thread on TL.net I now understand that messaging opponents after having won the game, no matter the topic, is quite universally understood to be 'asking for BM reply'.
I completely, utterly don't get the point of this and I believe this is detrimental to the community/social aspect of SC2.
Take a look at how long communication on ladder was, to say the least, rudimentary. Customary in-game GLHFs and GGs, occasional balance whines after games, but no chat system, inconvenient UI - all designed so poorly that one almost never communicated with people. Enter LotV beta and the new chat system. A more convenient window displaying the general chat and private conversations, automated tournaments - in short, reasonable changes expected to make the experience of playing SC2 more social.
However, no feature can deal with the social norms which have been growing for the past couple of years. Unless we - and especially those players who play the competitive version of SC2, i.e. 1v1 ladder - accept that people actually can talk to each other, the interactions will not thrive.
If I had known and obeyed this 'rule' earlier, I would have lost a couple of valuable practice custom games. If some people had not written to ma after stomping me in-game, I wouldn't have got some valuable advice.
It costs nothing to opt-out - accept private messages only from friends, block people, decide not to reply or simply write "Sorry, I don't want to talk, ggbye". But asking people to not write at all, even in a polite way, if they happened to win the game, is just too much.
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it's not complicated. it's very well known that many many people are extremely frustrated after losing a game of SC2 and no matter how well-intentioned or friendly your message is, depending on the other person's mood, it might just end up making them feel worse. not everyone is like that, but i don't see the point of trying to change people who are.
in all honesty this comes off as kind of a pretentious lecture. you say that if someone doesn't want to talk they can say "sorry i don't want to talk" - why can't you, the initiator, just ask politely "do you mind if i ask you a question about the game" instead of expecting it and then getting indignant when your opponent doesn't care to talk to you? you're putting all the responsibility on the other person when you are the one trying to initiate an unwanted conversation, as if to say that you're somehow inherently above them for being willing to chat. not everyone is on SC2 to chat.
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I appreciate that ladder anxiety exists, as well as reacting hard to losing games. My point is - the community introduces social norms which are antisocial in nature and I don't understand what sense they make. There is a feature which allows protection from unwanted conversations: allowing PMs from friends only. If someone doesn't want to chat, they can just go on and block interactions, period. That "opt-out" I can totally accept. But the default option allows and now even encourages chatting.
I guess in these circumstances you're right is "asking if I may ask a question" is indeed the only way. But with a chat system in place it seems to me to be odd, as if I had to be sorry for even trying. Especially since (I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I doubt anyone has any other) more often then not, I found conversations after games to be friendly and, so to speak, productive.
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Clearly you don't understand how bad manner this actually is.
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
Just because you can chat with someone because the game allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
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I didn't want the thread to be "about my game", but oh well...
As a matter of fact - I don't understand how bad manner this actually was. I felt lucky I won and I clearly stated it in my message, which was never intented to be BM. I wanted to learn something about the game, and to do so it makes sense to actually talk to people. Especially in beta, where everybody is trying to figure out what to do, particularly in lower leagues like platinum.
If you write an offensive "you suck, go to bronze" message or anything similar, this is BM because it is offensive. But I don't understand why the very idea of talking to somebody who lost can lead to only one conclusion - the one you mention in your post.
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On October 05 2015 19:23 ShurykaN wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how bad manner this actually is.
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
Just because you can chat with someone because the game allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
Clearly you should take a breath? I understand that people might have a hard time talking right after their loss, but seriously, people should try a bit harder not to get mad.
I disagree with people saying that you won't change people, that is it normal. I don't like the fact that people go full retard as soon as they lose a game, I don't think I am the one that should accept not to talk to others. That is totally thinking the wrong way.
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after a chess game you won, when you can talk face to face, how would you initiate the conversation? i would go with "excuse me" or "hey, good game" or smth like that, not burst out with the question. that's not only more polite, it also increases the chance to get an honest answer
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On October 05 2015 19:31 AsAr wrote:
after a chess game you won, when you can talk face to face, how would you initiate the conversation? i would go with "excuse me" or "hey, good game" or smth like that, not burst out with the question. that's not only more polite, it also increases the chance to get an honest answer
Noted. Still, it appears that just initiating conversation is frowned upon.
By the way, my guess is that if I had written "hey, good game" prior to asking, it would have been considered even more BM, like a sort of "post-game offensive gg".
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If you want to talk to people after the game find friends to practice with, not random people on ladder. It's fine to talk to people but unless you're autistic you should try to be more understanding of others and read the situation.
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On October 05 2015 19:37 ShurykaN wrote:
If you want to talk to people after the game find friends to practice with, not random people on ladder.
Wait, so no chatting on ladder allowed at all? Since when is this BM?
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On October 05 2015 19:37 corydoras wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 19:31 AsAr wrote:
after a chess game you won, when you can talk face to face, how would you initiate the conversation? i would go with "excuse me" or "hey, good game" or smth like that, not burst out with the question. that's not only more polite, it also increases the chance to get an honest answer Noted. Still, it appears that just initiating conversation is frowned upon. By the way, my guess is that if I had written "hey, good game" prior to asking, it would have been considered even more BM, like a sort of "post-game offensive gg".
well i can really only speak for myself, but i would flood you with information about my build if you were to greet me like this 
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On October 05 2015 19:41 corydoras wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 19:37 ShurykaN wrote:
If you want to talk to people after the game find friends to practice with, not random people on ladder. Wait, so no chatting on ladder allowed at all? Since when is this BM?
Speaks well of the levels of toxicity within the playerbase. I'd like to talk about interesting games regardless of who won but I've had enough death threats and such to block all communication.
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On October 05 2015 19:31 AsAr wrote:
after a chess game you won, when you can talk face to face, how would you initiate the conversation? i would go with "excuse me" or "hey, good game" or smth like that, not burst out with the question. that's not only more polite, it also increases the chance to get an honest answer
Personally I wouild find this much more BM than what the thread-starter wrote.
I usually get pretty heated after a loss, depending on the game and the reason I lost. But I mostly chat positively if someone writes to me and isn't obviously BM.
If I really got upset from the game and the person that defeated me wants to do small-talk he can do it elsewhere, however if he wants to talk about strategy get/give advice in earnest and is nice about it I'm all for that. I prefer that to be clear from the start though, just fire away your question.
If someone would message me in game "wow I got lucky that game, seems like a strong build, how often do you win zvp with that strat?" I would have no problem talking with that person about it. Would probably enjoy it too.
I don't buy this whole "chatting is taboo" thing, SC2 is trying to become more soicable, sadly we are stuck in the past and people are used to play isolated. This is lotv not wol or hots, get with the times or get "blocking" just like TS wrote. You don't need to telegraph that you want to chat with strangers, just block and just chat with friends.
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United Kingdom20277 Posts
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
I often throw a few lines at people @ master+ saying GG and if there is any reason that's obvious to me but may not be obvious to them contributing to a loss, a lot of people are happy to read those comments especially as you get to the point where people are trying to improve.
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Which ladder/league is this? Playing EU/Gold, the only time I've ever had a hostile response to a post-game PM was when they had already been hostile in-game at the end of the match and I was trying to smooth things over.
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I think most people would be fine if you wanted to ask them about a match you just played. SC2 does have the abillity to make certain people veeeery mad though :p.
![[image loading]](http://www.spawnroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/2upcxo7.jpg)
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 05 2015 18:33 corydoras wrote:It began here. Long story short, I played a PvZ game in LotV beta. My opponent went for a 1 base baneling bust, which I luckily scouted (very luckily - my probe saw the baneling nest going down), held and won the game. The build appeared pretty strong if unscouted even against gateway expand, so I wondered how succesful it generally was. However, my PM after the game apparently was thought to be offensive/provocative and my opponent replied as if it was indeed offensive. And thus I learned the hard way that I apparently should not PM people after winning the game, unless I apologize for even trying to dare, because if I don't, I invite aggresive behaviour which in that case would be acceptable. After reading the BM thread on TL.net I now understand that messaging opponents after having won the game, no matter the topic, is quite universally understood to be 'asking for BM reply'. I completely, utterly don't get the point of this and I believe this is detrimental to the community/social aspect of SC2. Take a look at how long communication on ladder was, to say the least, rudimentary. Customary in-game GLHFs and GGs, occasional balance whines after games, but no chat system, inconvenient UI - all designed so poorly that one almost never communicated with people. Enter LotV beta and the new chat system. A more convenient window displaying the general chat and private conversations, automated tournaments - in short, reasonable changes expected to make the experience of playing SC2 more social. However, no feature can deal with the social norms which have been growing for the past couple of years. Unless we - and especially those players who play the competitive version of SC2, i.e. 1v1 ladder - accept that people actually can talk to each other, the interactions will not thrive. If I had known and obeyed this 'rule' earlier, I would have lost a couple of valuable practice custom games. If some people had not written to ma after stomping me in-game, I wouldn't have got some valuable advice. It costs nothing to opt-out - accept private messages only from friends, block people, decide not to reply or simply write "Sorry, I don't want to talk, ggbye". But asking people to not write at all, even in a polite way, if they happened to win the game, is just too much.
Well, it's actually BM in every sport I have done. You don't talk about a competitive loss right after the game ended with whom just lost. It's a highway to hell  That's the reason why there's usually some time given to the opponent to "digest" the loss and calm down.
The problem in SC2 is that you cannot go for a drink or two after the game is ended to discuss what happened. You also cannot take a shower and then discuss it. This is in every sport the place where players usually calm down after the loss(locker room). Basically in real life this happens too. It's not that different. Just watch some interviews of players who are losing - they are frustrated, they are using just general BS phrases, because they know, they cannot tell to the camera "fuck off, I am pissed that we are losing and you are making it worse, get away from me otherwise I kill you". Well, in SC2 I can tell that
Have you ever done any sport or what? People like StarDust are asking for a disaster, believe me And I am not the most competitive person out there
Edit>
Also you have to remember, that you cannot use your voice properly through PM which gives a lot. Just the text without gestures and intonation is not that well accepted as a real life discussion could be...
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On October 05 2015 20:09 Umpteen wrote:
Which ladder/league is this? Playing EU/Gold, the only time I've ever had a hostile response to a post-game PM was when they had already been hostile in-game at the end of the match and I was trying to smooth things over.
The situation which prompted me to discuss the issue here happened in LotV beta, Platinum league. I had - admittedly rarely - similar situations during my journey from bronze to diamond in HotS. But I doubt that the league level makes any difference.
Well, wait, strike that, it sort of does.
IMHO interaction should be even more encouraged in lower leagues, because at Master/GM level there are few enough people who are strongly dedicated to the game that they probably naturally drift towards discussing SC2-related issues in addition to just playing. I feel that without it, we (I mean - we gold/platinum/diamond(?) scrubs) lose a lot of valuable interactions and opportunities to just enjoy the game with others instead of flipping the table after a losing streak.
EDIT: additional reply:
On October 05 2015 20:19 deacon.frost wrote:(...) Have you ever done any sport or what? People like StarDust are asking for a disaster, believe me And I am not the most competitive person out there Edit> Although you have to remember, that you cannot use your voice properly through PM which gives a lot. Just the text without gestures and intonation is not that well accepted as a real life discussion could be...
I used to play basketball, although calling it 'competitive' would be too much (I organized tournaments and leagues at university and took part in them, with my team having records of 2-10 and similar). And of course that there were emotions, but there never seemed to be a universal ban on trying to communicate. Some of the players were semi-pros and they did not seem to look at it this way either.
What you're saying about limits of text communications is totally valid, though I'm afraid this is something we cannot change, even with emoticons. So you either give people the benefit of doubt and assume they are not BM or things escalate unnecessarily.
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It really is a shame 
I only PM people after beating them if they "gg". Otherwise I figure there isn't much point (they'll get upset or won't respond).
Learning sportsmanship is one of the big reasons I'm going to encourage my son to take part in sports!
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What do you mean the past couple of years, it has been like for the decade I am on the internet. With time you learn the signs if a person doesn't want to talk and everything. We don't see our opponents facial expression and everything, just the text they write. You also learn how to not approach people.
If you mess up and end up talking to someone who doesn't want to talk, just do what you would do in real life. Apologize and move on. And don't pounce them with a wall of text. A neutral message containing a hello + your intention.
As for the Chess thing. In semi competitive chess, people rather like to analyze the game with their opponent. As they are the best person to analyze it with. They can share their intentions the best. So you get rather used to people asking you to go through the game real quick.
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On October 05 2015 20:36 FeyFey wrote:
What do you mean the past couple of years, it has been like for the decade I am on the internet. With time you learn the signs if a person doesn't want to talk and everything. We don't see our opponents facial expression and everything, just the text they write. You also learn how to not approach people.
Couple of years of SC2, i.e. 5 years exactly. I was referring to SC2-related norms.
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Well main reason why you are raging (hard) is because of houdcounter units and design.
just one of thousend (including design) examples; which one is hitting hard on you?
(1) you lost your game because of stupid wm hits.
(2) you lost your game because of better micro/plan of opponent.
Sc2 offers ton of things like (1), barely of (2).
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 05 2015 20:21 corydoras wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 20:09 Umpteen wrote:
Which ladder/league is this? Playing EU/Gold, the only time I've ever had a hostile response to a post-game PM was when they had already been hostile in-game at the end of the match and I was trying to smooth things over. The situation which prompted me to discuss the issue here happened in LotV beta, Platinum league. I had - admittedly rarely - similar situations during my journey from bronze to diamond in HotS. But I doubt that the league level makes any difference. Well, wait, strike that, it sort of does. IMHO interaction should be even more encouraged in lower leagues, because at Master/GM level there are few enough people who are strongly dedicated to the game that they probably naturally drift towards discussing SC2-related issues in addition to just playing. I feel that without it, we (I mean - we gold/platinum/diamond(?) scrubs) lose a lot of valuable interactions and opportunities to just enjoy the game with others instead of flipping the table after a losing streak. EDIT: additional reply: Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 20:19 deacon.frost wrote:(...) Have you ever done any sport or what? People like StarDust are asking for a disaster, believe me And I am not the most competitive person out there Edit> Although you have to remember, that you cannot use your voice properly through PM which gives a lot. Just the text without gestures and intonation is not that well accepted as a real life discussion could be... I used to play basketball, although calling it 'competitive' would be too much (I organized tournaments and leagues at university and took part in them, with my team having records of 2-10 and similar). And of course that there were emotions, but there never seemed to be a universal ban on trying to communicate. Some of the players were semi-pros and they did not seem to look at it this way either. What you're saying about limits of text communications is totally valid, though I'm afraid this is something we cannot change, even with emoticons. So you either give people the benefit of doubt and assume they are not BM or things escalate unnecessarily.
I played football a lot + I have some experience with ice hockey and you just won't chat about the loss with your opponent unless there's a beer involved(in the case you are on the winning side). The basic rule was to wait after the shower at least or don't worry about consequences
The SC2 community isn't that toxic to not communicate, just give them a time. Start slowly with some general BS like - "hey, do you have a minute?" Don't just shoot the question you want to know, that's rude everywhere, not only in SC2.
TL,DR: Imagine you are asking John McEnroe on a court
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I think it's good to open dialogue like this, even if only a small portion of the player base reads this.
My experience is the same as the OP. However, normally I wouldn't pm somebody after a win (especially if they didn't gg). I would like to be able to though. Don't be surprised if they bite your head off. Just be polite; no point adding fuel to the fire. Keep it short. Realistically, you don't have much to learn and they won't want to talk for too long.
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Different people react very differently to this kind of approaches, in sc2 and in real world.
- Some sc2 players have ladder fear to the extent that the never play. Other find it ridiculous and don't understand at all why they don't play.
- Some sc2 players destroy their keyboard or hit the wall when they lose a game. Other wouldn't dream of it.
- Some sports players lose it and start fights with people regularly when they are losing. Others just get back up and continue to play despite how much shit they catch from the other team.
If you run into the keyboard-smashing kind of player when he is having a bad day, and you message him after you beat him, chances are that he won't respond well. As one of the calm players, I wish this wasn't the case, but that's how a lot of players are, and everyone has to deal with that.
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The only thing to really infer is that the OP has never played a sport in his life. If your opponents don't lose gracefully, ie the equivalent of gg, you have no right to rub it in by initiating a talking about the game with him/them.
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Since when is laddering considered a sport?
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 05 2015 21:53 rotta wrote:
Since when is laddering considered a sport?
Who wrote it is a sport?
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On October 05 2015 21:53 rotta wrote:
Since when is laddering considered a sport?
It actually can result in similar emotions, so the analogy is not completely invalid. That being said...
On October 05 2015 21:44 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
The only thing to really infer is that the OP has never played a sport in his life. If your opponents don't lose gracefully, ie the equivalent of gg, you have no right to rub it in by initiating a talking about the game with him/them.
...I actually have, which I mentioned a couple of posts earlier. My problem is what is expected to be a norm and what is expected to be an exception. I strongly believe that allowing conversation should be the norm, but it seems to be an exception or to be at least controversial for a large part of the laddering community.
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I personally can talk with people after a loss, but the person cant start with: "Hey dude, here why you sucks." or "Tell me did you strat work once? Cause I beat the crap out of you with my spidersense." :D
You can be the most gentleman(woman) on the planet the opponent has few chances to answer normally. Try to talk with the opponent by pointing out a bad thing you did or something he did well. You're the looser at the end but youre not a "total" looser, because you did this well or I got lucky there. Even if it's not true, it can reassure a bit.
I think its a way to start a conversation. Well, ofc there is some people you cant talk with even with the smoothest talk ever. :D They are just mad let them be mad for a while and try later. ^^
Loosing is never fun when you expect to win! :D
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sometimes after a loss i get a really solid "bullet point" critique of exactly what i did wrong.
as far as social features go... the SC2 client is fine... its the community that is anti-social... if the community wanted to socialize it would find a way.
Hell, the C&C community is loads more social and they don't even have a server never mind some elaborate features for congregating in the client.
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Keep talking to your opponents OP. I sometimes rage hard after a game, but every time there was a real conservation after a game (started sometimes even by BM...) it ended usually with a "gg wp gl with your next games" from both sides and the rage was gone. This said, you maybe should not start with "how often does this work for you?" because for the other one it can sound a lot like: "does this BAD strat work at all for you? It was so ez to defend!" Your second sentence makes your good intention clear but maybe switch those the next time 
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The loser should always be the one initiating these sorts of discussion just after a game, whether it's SC2, BW or AoE3. You just come across as a sore winner, even if that's not your intent. Even with friends I'd rather not start analyzing a game I won, since really my win is on the back of their mistakes.
If you really want to discuss strategy, then do it on a forum or after you've lost a game.
It's just common etiquette.
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Honestly in terms of 1v1 online games, the amount of toxicity in SC2 ladder isn't at all out of the ordinary. People get salty and frustrated when they lose, even if it's for the "right" reasons, and that gets in the way of having civil conversations. The more competitive and invested a person is in a match the more emotional they are going to be, just the nature of the game.
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On October 05 2015 20:55 Dingodile wrote:
Well main reason why you are raging (hard) is because of houdcounter units and design.
just one of thousend (including design) examples; which one is hitting hard on you?
(1) you lost your game because of stupid wm hits.
(2) you lost your game because of better micro/plan of opponent.
Sc2 offers ton of things like (1), barely of (2).
This is pretty much why I rage, lol.
I for one cannot understand the incessant need that this community has for "no gg" = bad manner. I guess I'm a bit like IdrA in that regard. Sometimes I don't want to gg. Sometimes...the game was NOT good! Sometimes it was stupid. Sometimes I'm frustrated or upset. Sometimes my opponent uses a strategy that is stupid, overly annoying to defend, and I just don't want to type gg because I don't think the game deserves it. A lot of my opponents are assholes too, lol. I play Zerg, so I bring a lot of this on myself. Most of the times I just don't gg in situations like Dingo described...where I feel the opponent won more due to the design flaws of the game than an exceptional display of player skill. I don't particularly enjoy games where the opponent won with the aid of stupidly designed units.
But if I feel the opponent played a style which is really mechanically oriented and won out with sheer raw execution then I am quick to GGWP because that is the sort of shit I enjoy and really want to praise. I'll even send the opponent a comment saying how impressive his play is.
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In BW if I played a really good game with someone (win or lose) and there was something that I was curious about. I would ask. Hey, did you take that 4th right around when I did X or whatever. Most people were pretty chill about talking about their mindset/strat during the game. On Iccup it was very common at the lower levels to talk strats or discuss the game played post game. Heck, even as my base was being blown to bits at times I would ask the other player what I should have done if they were me. Sometimes I'd get shitty answers (Play better lulzlzlzlzlz) but most times I'd get some really good information, especially when I played higher ranked players.
If I ever got hands down spanked or vice versa then post game rage can be a factor. Especially when I feel, or the opponent, felt cheated (out of the win, not hacking) for whatever reason.
I noticed with the crappy B.net of SC2, that has really faded away and most people are just down right hostile after EVERY game now. Which is sad because both players stand to learn something if everyone just took a breath.
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It's weird, while I agree that there's a lot of "salt" on ladder and online in general since it's the same principle than car rage, it's mostly anonymous and has no consequences so people are abnormally violent.
But in general on NA I find my experience is not that bad. Even having a Z apologize to me because he randomly scouted both my proxy pylons during a 7gates lately.
Seriously if you ask a legitimate question for personal development or give a small hint, and all you get back is insults, then just don't bother with that person. There's no point dealing with psychopathic behaviors online, but that shouldn't mean you should stop being nice, curious and helpful with everybody because of those few idiots that can only deal with looses by being angry or blaming external factors race, hack...) instead of trying to improve.
Oh BTW if you fucking WM drop me and kill mt whole mineral lines in 3 seconds with 2WM.... I may not answer back if you message me post game.
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I agree with the op. If you can curb your knee-jerk reaction to immediately scream BM after the winner messages you, you can make some really good practice partners or online friends in a very much lonely battlenet. Of course it depends on the content of the message: if your opponent messages you with "ez" after the game, then there's little reason to reply in a civil manner or at all.
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On October 05 2015 21:53 rotta wrote:
Since when is laddering considered a sport?
It's pretty much the same thing. A sport is just a game that can be played competitively, and you can be sure that if you are laddering it is a competitive game. It's pretty much accepted nowadays that computer games are sports. I honestly wouldn't be expecting having to explain this sort of thing in TL of all places. If you are playing tennis in a park with some friends, just because it isn't a worldwide tournament, you are still playing a sport. So it is with laddering. The difference in monetary or recognition stakes doesn't change that it is still a sporting act.
Just because one is "real life" game and the other is a virtual game, and you can't see their face, people and emotions are the same anywhere. Unless there is some unfortunate circumstance in your life where you never had to play a game in your life, even a board game, everyone recognises that if your opponents are so dejected of a loss in the game that they wouldn't even acknowledge your existence with a farewell, you don't go and initiate a conversation about the finer points of strategy with them.
You certainly don't just go" how often does your XYZ strat work?" And then start talking a load of crap when the other guy isn't talking back to you. In real life the guy would ignore you and walk away. And that's what he did, only that this is the virtual world so he clicked a button called "ignore". You didn't even bother to greet the guy you decided to talk to. Who does that in real life? This is not BM. This is not some special SC2 etiquette, it's just plainly obvious and in line with every experience in life.
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It depends on how you talk to the persona... for instance if I lose against you by trying some shitty build and you PM me asking "Does that even work against others?" it is kind of trolling maybe, I can't know but I will think it is...
If you won against me but you PM me to ask other thing or give me some advice about my gameplay like "You lacked scout, I had XX more expas hidden", well, thanks for that.
Anyway, it depends on how you talk and what you ask (and also how you ask), as well the mood of the other player considering he could maybe be pissed off because losing =/
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Whoa, this thread definitely exceeded the expectations I had when I started it. And I'm glad I did, especially thanks to those who pointed out that the way of asking questions may actually matter more than I originally thought.
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I think that if you want to engage in conversation after a game it's possible if you already have said more that gl hf and gg in the game. In my experience if the game has some friendly banter it's easy to continue the conversation. If you had said those things before the end of the game it might have been less offensive to him. But you need to have the time before the other player leaves.
Edit: wow didn't realize this necro... hmmm.
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On October 05 2015 19:23 ShurykaN wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how bad manner this actually is.
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
Just because you can chat with someone because the game allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.
Pretty much this. Its an assholish move to talk to your opponent after you win a match. An exception to this would be if you two were talking friendly during the game, but that doesn't happen most of the time.
I'd take your message saying it was lucky as ironic 100% of the times and mute you right after.
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On October 29 2015 22:45 LA_Morello wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 19:23 ShurykaN wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how bad manner this actually is.
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
Just because you can chat with someone because the game allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Pretty much this. Its an assholish move to talk to your opponent after you win a match. An exception to this would be if you two were talking friendly during the game, but that doesn't happen most of the time. I'd take your message saying it was lucky as ironic 100% of the times and mute you right after.
How is it an "assholish move" to talk to the opponent after winning the game? Depending on how you do it, I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. People should just get less frustrated over the game, and if the opponent can offer you advice, why not take it?
The possibilities are endless, as long as you don't initiate the conversation with your opponent by belittling him and saying that he's terrible, and such.
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On October 29 2015 22:57 ThePrussianPrince wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2015 22:45 LA_Morello wrote:On October 05 2015 19:23 ShurykaN wrote:
Clearly you don't understand how bad manner this actually is.
You just beat the shit out of this guy and then message him asking something about the game. The only thing that can be inferred from this is that you get off on sucking yourself off to how well you played last game and enjoy rubbing it in his face.
Just because you can chat with someone because the game allows you to doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. Pretty much this. Its an assholish move to talk to your opponent after you win a match. An exception to this would be if you two were talking friendly during the game, but that doesn't happen most of the time. I'd take your message saying it was lucky as ironic 100% of the times and mute you right after. How is it an "assholish move" to talk to the opponent after winning the game? Depending on how you do it, I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. People should just get less frustrated over the game, and if the opponent can offer you advice, why not take it? The possibilities are endless, as long as you don't initiate the conversation with your opponent by belittling him and saying that he's terrible, and such.
You can't decide for people how frustrated they should feel after a match.
Also, despite you having helpful advice or not to give, most people don't want to hear people of similar skill telling them how to play. Its even more annoying if you just lost against them.
I stopped playing long ago, but before I did, I'd regularly mute people before quitting the match if I felt BM was coming after the match.
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On October 05 2015 19:58 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 19:41 corydoras wrote:On October 05 2015 19:37 ShurykaN wrote:
If you want to talk to people after the game find friends to practice with, not random people on ladder. Wait, so no chatting on ladder allowed at all? Since when is this BM? Speaks well of the levels of toxicity within the playerbase. I'd like to talk about interesting games regardless of who won but I've had enough death threats and such to block all communication.
Its funny because when people claim this, they usually get pretty pissed off after a loss and those "interesting games" tend to be wins.
inb4 "no not me ofc not I truly enjoy all aspects of winning and losing equally".
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On October 05 2015 20:02 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2015 19:31 AsAr wrote:
after a chess game you won, when you can talk face to face, how would you initiate the conversation? i would go with "excuse me" or "hey, good game" or smth like that, not burst out with the question. that's not only more polite, it also increases the chance to get an honest answer Personally I wouild find this much more BM than what the thread-starter wrote. I usually get pretty heated after a loss, depending on the game and the reason I lost. But I mostly chat positively if someone writes to me and isn't obviously BM. If I really got upset from the game and the person that defeated me wants to do small-talk he can do it elsewhere, however if he wants to talk about strategy get/give advice in earnest and is nice about it I'm all for that. I prefer that to be clear from the start though, just fire away your question. If someone would message me in game "wow I got lucky that game, seems like a strong build, how often do you win zvp with that strat?" I would have no problem talking with that person about it. Would probably enjoy it too. I don't buy this whole "chatting is taboo" thing, SC2 is trying to become more soicable, sadly we are stuck in the past and people are used to play isolated. This is lotv not wol or hots, get with the times or get "blocking" just like TS wrote. You don't need to telegraph that you want to chat with strangers, just block and just chat with friends.
smal-talk in the various chatrooms that exists, but if you want to talk to your opponent after a won game, you should start with "hey may I ask you a question?" This gives the other guy an option to decline.
Just like in real life you wouldnt just ask someone a question without approaching them and ask if they have they are willing to help you out.
Edit: Honestly what question will you not be able to find the answer on your own to by watching the replay?
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I block everyone I encounter in ladder when the game starts, usually. Why waste time talking to idiots?
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If you claim it's automatically BM to talk to someone after you beat them in a competition then you are a sensitive and sore loser. Period.
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On October 30 2015 03:07 Doodsmack wrote:
If you claim it's automatically BM to talk to someone after you beat them in a competition then you are a sensitive and sore loser. Period.
Completely agree, seems like some people need to grow a thicker skin and get a better understanding of what real sportsmanship is.
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EPT
