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On September 27 2015 07:36 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Zergs are defending really well adept harass this week. I'm starting to think that any change to this unit should not impact PvZ otherwise adepts will be weak.
Assuming that's true, is there a reason that fast adept pressure needs to be viable PvZ? It seems like queens are pretty good non-light defense, so it might be difficult to put adepts in a spot where they are strong against queen defenses without being broken against marine defenses.
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On September 27 2015 07:59 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2015 07:36 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Zergs are defending really well adept harass this week. I'm starting to think that any change to this unit should not impact PvZ otherwise adepts will be weak. Assuming that's true, is there a reason that fast adept pressure needs to be viable PvZ? It seems like queens are pretty good non-light defense, so it might be difficult to put adepts in a spot where they are strong against queen defenses without being broken against marine defenses.
no, protoss doesn't need adept harass in pvz at all. nothing changed about zerg in lotv to make it necessary for protoss to use adepts to slow down zerg's economy, it's just a new option. the game will be completely fine if protoss can't get a bunch of free worker kills with adept openers.
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what do you mean nothing changed lol, ravagers and lurker is a pretty massive change to the previous usual zvp composition
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Well that's a nice article but i though anyone who plays the game would notice this without reading all that.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 27 2015 09:18 shid0x wrote:
Well that's a nice article but i though anyone who plays the game would notice this without reading all that.
You might be surprised at the variety of opinions that exist. Not everyone comes to the same conclusions after looking at the same data, and not everyone has the same perspective or experience.
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-1 dmg to light, make shade vision like 25% of what it is now, nerf warp prism
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Maybe they're too good vs Terran, I duno, I don't play Terran. Yet. But, they're not too good early game vs Zerg. They may come fast, but not fast enough. Zerg is just fine against adepts, imo.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
no, protoss doesn't need adept harass in pvz at all. nothing changed about zerg in lotv to make it necessary for protoss to use adepts to slow down zerg's economy, it's just a new option. the game will be completely fine if protoss can't get a bunch of free worker kills with adept openers.
Zerg armies are stronger and zergs are doing some pretty crazy greedy openings that are way harder to punish without adepts
nothing changed about zerg in lotv
Aside from the economy rework and tier 1.5 units?
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On September 27 2015 08:36 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2015 07:59 ChristianS wrote:On September 27 2015 07:36 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Zergs are defending really well adept harass this week. I'm starting to think that any change to this unit should not impact PvZ otherwise adepts will be weak. Assuming that's true, is there a reason that fast adept pressure needs to be viable PvZ? It seems like queens are pretty good non-light defense, so it might be difficult to put adepts in a spot where they are strong against queen defenses without being broken against marine defenses. no, protoss doesn't need adept harass in pvz at all. nothing changed about zerg in lotv to make it necessary for protoss to use adepts to slow down zerg's economy, it's just a new option. the game will be completely fine if protoss can't get a bunch of free worker kills with adept openers.
Zerg is the race that benefits the most from the new econ. Being able to quickly mass speedlings for pressure while Protoss would be in the gutter , no matter which opening they chose, without Adepts. Terran also benefits from the econ while Protoss still relies on tech for the mid- lategame. And that tech takes the same amount of time it always did. Think about it. Without Adepts and the possibilities they give, Protoss wouldn´t be able to put any pressure at all, nor defend. Not even with MsC. Zerg and Terran could just keep massing their cheap as chips Lings and Marines and exhaust a Protoss. Adepts needs to be strong vs Light, the question is HOW strong. And that is what we all wait for Blizz to find out and test.
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On September 27 2015 16:05 Iznogood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2015 08:36 brickrd wrote:On September 27 2015 07:59 ChristianS wrote:On September 27 2015 07:36 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Zergs are defending really well adept harass this week. I'm starting to think that any change to this unit should not impact PvZ otherwise adepts will be weak. Assuming that's true, is there a reason that fast adept pressure needs to be viable PvZ? It seems like queens are pretty good non-light defense, so it might be difficult to put adepts in a spot where they are strong against queen defenses without being broken against marine defenses. no, protoss doesn't need adept harass in pvz at all. nothing changed about zerg in lotv to make it necessary for protoss to use adepts to slow down zerg's economy, it's just a new option. the game will be completely fine if protoss can't get a bunch of free worker kills with adept openers. Zerg is the race that benefits the most from the new econ. Being able to quickly mass speedlings for pressure while Protoss would be in the gutter , no matter which opening they chose, without Adepts. Terran also benefits from the econ while Protoss still relies on tech for the mid- lategame. And that tech takes the same amount of time it always did. Think about it. Without Adepts and the possibilities they give, Protoss wouldn´t be able to put any pressure at all, nor defend. Not even with MsC. Zerg and Terran could just keep massing their cheap as chips Lings and Marines and exhaust a Protoss. Adepts needs to be strong vs Light, the question is HOW strong. And that is what we all wait for Blizz to find out and test.
Something to consider is that Zerg expansions need to come sooner, often before creep is typically spread, making it harder to defend bases than HOTS. In many situation in HOTS where you would have creep halfway across the map, you're now needing to expand to a fourth with creep barely there, allowing Terran to push that area (or Protoss) and take much more favorable engagements. Something I feel many people are not considering, but I've noticed myself as playing Zerg.
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given how fast creep spread I'm unsure how that's possible, if anything it always feels like creeps is coming to my base was faster than in HOTS
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
given how fast creep spread I'm unsure how that's possible, if anything it always feels like creeps is coming to my base was faster than in HOTS
Yup crazy fast. It recedes faster but it's in your face a lot more now
In many situation in HOTS where you would have creep halfway across the map, you're now needing to expand to a fourth with creep barely there
Zerg at this point has creep over their 4'th, 5'th, 6'th, 7'th and all over my 4'th before i can even take it sometimes. It's rather easy to build extra queens, they're very good against toss air and it spreads twice as fast as before, nothing surprising here
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Adepts are strong? not even close.
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So your solution is direct stat nerf and adding ANOTHER ability to compensate it in late game. Oh God...
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United States7483 Posts
On September 28 2015 10:56 ROOTFayth wrote:
given how fast creep spread I'm unsure how that's possible, if anything it always feels like creeps is coming to my base was faster than in HOTS
Get used to it I guess, gonna have to be really on top of clearing it. Zerg gets so much vision from it.
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Is creep spreading faster a new thing in a more recent patch?
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On September 28 2015 11:08 Advantageous wrote:
Adepts are strong? not even close.
Wow, this one I haven't heard. You think they're what, weak? Are buffs in order?
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 28 2015 11:53 FabledIntegral wrote:
Is creep spreading faster a new thing in a more recent patch?
Yes, they doubled the creep spread rate very recently, 2 patches ago. Zergs are also just building 10+ queens when you go carrier without a gateway count to back it up so there is purple crap everywhere no matter what you do to clear it 
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On September 28 2015 12:16 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2015 11:53 FabledIntegral wrote:
Is creep spreading faster a new thing in a more recent patch? Yes, they doubled the creep spread rate very recently, 2 patches ago. Zergs are also just building 10+ queens when you go carrier without a gateway count to back it up so there is purple crap everywhere no matter what you do to clear it
Then I retract my statement.
I need to get used to carrier WITH gateway because I'm used to going mass hydra, but the adept WRECK me when I do that
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EPT
