• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:38
CET 18:38
KST 02:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1857 users

Legacy of the Void Pre-order is now available - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
245 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 13 Next All
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19299 Posts
July 16 2015 00:03 GMT
#121
Guys, What if blizzard reverts the swarm hosts patch in HoTS so people won't continue to play it competitively over LoTV? :D
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9407 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-16 00:12:50
July 16 2015 00:11 GMT
#122
On July 16 2015 07:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:33 custombuild wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:52 TJ31 wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i figured LotV would be $60 USD because its a stand alone product.

they did this giant long beta and are only asking $40 USD, and its not an expansion that requires a different purchase....
ATVI is going to make !@#$%^&* all on this. this makes it even easier for them to push aside Starcraft and RTS like it doesn't exist.

if the retail box copy is also $40 USD then just wow.
my how the RTS genre has fallen.
u get onto the ladder and a campaign for just $40.

It's still an expansion, to a 5+ years old game as well (will be closer to 6 if they won't release it until next year). I know it's Blizzard and stuff, but even 40$ is too much for that. Graphics is dated, engine itself is terrible (jokes on Blizz for using it for their moba too). Would consider buying it for 20$ maybe, although I have no interested in playing ladder/mp anymore.

So yeah, only interested in campaign and HS cardback so far. Probably won't buy it at all.


Even though I think you are trying to troll people you do make good points. It really does not bring anything new to the table. The game play is basically repetitive where you build bases over and over and then attack something.


You just defined an entire genre of games- Real Time Strategy. That's the point of the game, not a redundant, boring drawback to it. No one expected SC2:LotV to be a MOBA or FPS.


You have a similar mindset as the people in the transportation industry 100 years ago who sold horses. The point is that you need to innovate based on what your customers need. Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second. Instead what people enjoy about the RTS genre is to control units.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45167 Posts
July 16 2015 00:17 GMT
#123
On July 16 2015 09:11 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 16 2015 07:33 custombuild wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:52 TJ31 wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i figured LotV would be $60 USD because its a stand alone product.

they did this giant long beta and are only asking $40 USD, and its not an expansion that requires a different purchase....
ATVI is going to make !@#$%^&* all on this. this makes it even easier for them to push aside Starcraft and RTS like it doesn't exist.

if the retail box copy is also $40 USD then just wow.
my how the RTS genre has fallen.
u get onto the ladder and a campaign for just $40.

It's still an expansion, to a 5+ years old game as well (will be closer to 6 if they won't release it until next year). I know it's Blizzard and stuff, but even 40$ is too much for that. Graphics is dated, engine itself is terrible (jokes on Blizz for using it for their moba too). Would consider buying it for 20$ maybe, although I have no interested in playing ladder/mp anymore.

So yeah, only interested in campaign and HS cardback so far. Probably won't buy it at all.


Even though I think you are trying to troll people you do make good points. It really does not bring anything new to the table. The game play is basically repetitive where you build bases over and over and then attack something.


You just defined an entire genre of games- Real Time Strategy. That's the point of the game, not a redundant, boring drawback to it. No one expected SC2:LotV to be a MOBA or FPS.


You have a similar mindset as the people in the transportation industry 100 years ago who sold horses. The point is that you need to innovate based on what your customers need. Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second. Instead what people enjoy about the RTS genre is to control units.


Micro but no macro? If i just want to control units and not care about economy, I'd play a different genre.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
July 16 2015 00:17 GMT
#124
On July 16 2015 09:11 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 16 2015 07:33 custombuild wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:52 TJ31 wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i figured LotV would be $60 USD because its a stand alone product.

they did this giant long beta and are only asking $40 USD, and its not an expansion that requires a different purchase....
ATVI is going to make !@#$%^&* all on this. this makes it even easier for them to push aside Starcraft and RTS like it doesn't exist.

if the retail box copy is also $40 USD then just wow.
my how the RTS genre has fallen.
u get onto the ladder and a campaign for just $40.

It's still an expansion, to a 5+ years old game as well (will be closer to 6 if they won't release it until next year). I know it's Blizzard and stuff, but even 40$ is too much for that. Graphics is dated, engine itself is terrible (jokes on Blizz for using it for their moba too). Would consider buying it for 20$ maybe, although I have no interested in playing ladder/mp anymore.

So yeah, only interested in campaign and HS cardback so far. Probably won't buy it at all.


Even though I think you are trying to troll people you do make good points. It really does not bring anything new to the table. The game play is basically repetitive where you build bases over and over and then attack something.


You just defined an entire genre of games- Real Time Strategy. That's the point of the game, not a redundant, boring drawback to it. No one expected SC2:LotV to be a MOBA or FPS.


You have a similar mindset as the people in the transportation industry 100 years ago who sold horses. The point is that you need to innovate based on what your customers need. Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second. Instead what people enjoy about the RTS genre is to control units.

i think thats arguable though. strategic citybuilding games have been popular for a long time too. it might be true that starcraft fans or RTS fans or game fans want less macro than SC2 requires, it might not be true. but "no one enjoys building supply depots" i think is an oversimplification and perhaps quite an inaccurate one
TL+ Member
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
July 16 2015 00:18 GMT
#125
Looking through the details, is there no discount for those who already own Wol/HOTS?

Looks like just 40 dollars for everyone
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 16 2015 00:19 GMT
#126
lol, limited edition, what a meaningless term.
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
July 16 2015 00:25 GMT
#127
Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second


Not true at all and without the mechanical skills for base management and multitasking it would be a very different game
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
sacrilegious
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada863 Posts
July 16 2015 00:29 GMT
#128
When I saw this news at first, I was like cool maybe I should get it now for the missions. I further considered the deluxe (for HS and HotS and maybe D3) even though I never bought anything more than the original for WoL and Heart of the Swarm... then I said to myself "whoooa there", and thought it through.

An additional $20 USD for cosmetic stuff is absurd. If they included in-game stuff for the other games like card packs for HS and/or 2 heroes for purchase in HotS then maybe you can justify the $20 USD

Further, if anyone is in Canada like I am and did a rough conversion of $59.99 USD to CAD, you will see it converts to $77.56 CAD. I'm also going to assume taxes have not been factored in, so you would be paying likely close to $90 CAD... am I correct? Once again, that is absurd. $31.99 USD converts to $51.70 CAD just for the game alone... I really don't remember paying that much for Heart of the Swarm
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
July 16 2015 00:31 GMT
#129
On July 16 2015 09:03 BisuDagger wrote:
Guys, What if blizzard reverts the swarm hosts patch in HoTS so people won't continue to play it competitively over LoTV? :D

Would love this douchebag move ;D
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
July 16 2015 00:31 GMT
#130
On July 16 2015 09:29 sacrilegious wrote:
When I saw this news at first, I was like cool maybe I should get it now for the missions. I further considered the deluxe (for HS and HotS and maybe D3) even though I never bought anything more than the original for WoL and Heart of the Swarm... then I said to myself "whoooa there", and thought it through.

An additional $20 USD for cosmetic stuff is absurd. If they included in-game stuff for the other games like card packs for HS and/or 2 heroes for purchase in HotS then maybe you can justify the $20 USD

Further, if anyone is in Canada like I am and did a rough conversion of $59.99 USD to CAD, you will see it converts to $77.56 CAD. I'm also going to assume taxes have not been factored in, so you would be paying likely close to $90 CAD... am I correct? Once again, that is absurd. $31.99 USD converts to $51.70 CAD just for the game alone... I really don't remember paying that much for Heart of the Swarm

I think that the dollar might've been a bit stronger when you bought HotS.
kiss kiss fall in love
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
July 16 2015 00:32 GMT
#131
On July 16 2015 09:11 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 16 2015 07:33 custombuild wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:52 TJ31 wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i figured LotV would be $60 USD because its a stand alone product.

they did this giant long beta and are only asking $40 USD, and its not an expansion that requires a different purchase....
ATVI is going to make !@#$%^&* all on this. this makes it even easier for them to push aside Starcraft and RTS like it doesn't exist.

if the retail box copy is also $40 USD then just wow.
my how the RTS genre has fallen.
u get onto the ladder and a campaign for just $40.

It's still an expansion, to a 5+ years old game as well (will be closer to 6 if they won't release it until next year). I know it's Blizzard and stuff, but even 40$ is too much for that. Graphics is dated, engine itself is terrible (jokes on Blizz for using it for their moba too). Would consider buying it for 20$ maybe, although I have no interested in playing ladder/mp anymore.

So yeah, only interested in campaign and HS cardback so far. Probably won't buy it at all.


Even though I think you are trying to troll people you do make good points. It really does not bring anything new to the table. The game play is basically repetitive where you build bases over and over and then attack something.


You just defined an entire genre of games- Real Time Strategy. That's the point of the game, not a redundant, boring drawback to it. No one expected SC2:LotV to be a MOBA or FPS.


You have a similar mindset as the people in the transportation industry 100 years ago who sold horses. The point is that you need to innovate based on what your customers need. Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second. Instead what people enjoy about the RTS genre is to control units.

The masses don't want to build a supply depot every x seconds, most of them don't want to play a competitive game solo or control more than 1 unit. Luckily SC2 is not a game aimed at the masses.
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
July 16 2015 02:17 GMT
#132
On July 16 2015 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:20 SuperHofmann wrote:
I'll wait for the collector's edition


The OP has links to the digital deluxe version and the whole set too...


Neither of which are the collector's edition.
STX Fighting!
Jordik
Profile Joined June 2011
France12 Posts
July 16 2015 02:19 GMT
#133
No one complaining about the 1$=1€ policy of Blizzard that have been on for some time now? At least Steam got it right and the shopping uses the right conversion rate!
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 16 2015 02:24 GMT
#134
On July 16 2015 09:11 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 07:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 16 2015 07:33 custombuild wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:52 TJ31 wrote:
On July 16 2015 04:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i figured LotV would be $60 USD because its a stand alone product.

they did this giant long beta and are only asking $40 USD, and its not an expansion that requires a different purchase....
ATVI is going to make !@#$%^&* all on this. this makes it even easier for them to push aside Starcraft and RTS like it doesn't exist.

if the retail box copy is also $40 USD then just wow.
my how the RTS genre has fallen.
u get onto the ladder and a campaign for just $40.

It's still an expansion, to a 5+ years old game as well (will be closer to 6 if they won't release it until next year). I know it's Blizzard and stuff, but even 40$ is too much for that. Graphics is dated, engine itself is terrible (jokes on Blizz for using it for their moba too). Would consider buying it for 20$ maybe, although I have no interested in playing ladder/mp anymore.

So yeah, only interested in campaign and HS cardback so far. Probably won't buy it at all.


Even though I think you are trying to troll people you do make good points. It really does not bring anything new to the table. The game play is basically repetitive where you build bases over and over and then attack something.


You just defined an entire genre of games- Real Time Strategy. That's the point of the game, not a redundant, boring drawback to it. No one expected SC2:LotV to be a MOBA or FPS.


You have a similar mindset as the people in the transportation industry 100 years ago who sold horses. The point is that you need to innovate based on what your customers need. Noone enjoys building a suply depot every x second. Instead what people enjoy about the RTS genre is to control units.

We have an entire genre called MOBA where all you do is control units and base management and attack pushes are done by the computer. But we come here because this is what we enjoy.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
July 16 2015 02:24 GMT
#135
On July 16 2015 11:19 Jordik wrote:
No one complaining about the 1$=1€ policy of Blizzard that have been on for some time now?


The conversion rate is pretty close to 1:1 right now. It's not 2011 anymore.
STX Fighting!
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 16 2015 02:26 GMT
#136
On July 16 2015 11:24 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 11:19 Jordik wrote:
No one complaining about the 1$=1€ policy of Blizzard that have been on for some time now?


The conversion rate is pretty close to 1:1 right now. It's not 2011 anymore.

Looking at Google's price chart rn, is it because of the whole Greece situation?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
July 16 2015 02:31 GMT
#137
On July 16 2015 11:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 11:24 vesicular wrote:
On July 16 2015 11:19 Jordik wrote:
No one complaining about the 1$=1€ policy of Blizzard that have been on for some time now?


The conversion rate is pretty close to 1:1 right now. It's not 2011 anymore.

Looking at Google's price chart rn, is it because of the whole Greece situation?


Mainly, US economy has been stronger than the rest of the world, the oil boom in the US, and a reduction of US debt.
STX Fighting!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17145 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-16 02:46:09
July 16 2015 02:42 GMT
#138
if u like RTS games with no supply depot building i recommend Company of Heroes 1.

On July 16 2015 11:31 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 11:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On July 16 2015 11:24 vesicular wrote:
On July 16 2015 11:19 Jordik wrote:
No one complaining about the 1$=1€ policy of Blizzard that have been on for some time now?


The conversion rate is pretty close to 1:1 right now. It's not 2011 anymore.

Looking at Google's price chart rn, is it because of the whole Greece situation?


Mainly, US economy has been stronger than the rest of the world, the oil boom in the US, and a reduction of US debt.

huh?
the price of oil is falling like a rock.. if this iran deal goes through the world wide supply of oil will rise substantially... and the us economy is weak and getting weaker.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-us-economy-weak-and-getting-weaker/
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
nrv
Profile Joined April 2011
United States113 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-16 02:46:57
July 16 2015 02:46 GMT
#139
when do we get the portraits for deluxe edition?
yes
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
July 16 2015 02:56 GMT
#140
I've been on this forum supporting starcraft 2 since the start. Since before the start of SC2. but, I won't be pre-ordering anything. if they make 20 million or more before the game even comes out it really reduces the incentive to improve the game. Who even knows how bad it's gonna be?

With everything they hoped for StarCraft, and as little as it has returned for them, I imagine they could just cut their losses and release any old trash if they make enough.

Please to not reduce the incentive for them to keep improving the game, by giving them money already for it. Please.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Ladder Legends
17:00
WWG Masters Showdown
SteadfastSC50
Liquipedia
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Championship Sunday
SHIN vs ClassicLIVE!
WardiTV2407
ComeBackTV 1369
TaKeTV 673
Rex133
CosmosSc2 98
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 133
CosmosSc2 98
SKillous 65
ProTech63
SteadfastSC 50
DivinesiaTV 21
MindelVK 14
BRAT_OK 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3265
Shuttle 682
Stork 382
Light 228
Last 149
Mini 126
firebathero 124
hero 113
Hyun 105
ggaemo 90
[ Show more ]
910 26
soO 20
Killer 15
Terrorterran 15
HiyA 9
Dewaltoss 5
Dota 2
Gorgc7212
singsing3683
qojqva2297
syndereN368
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1393
allub260
chrisJcsgo34
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor633
Liquid`Hasu417
Other Games
FrodaN937
KnowMe364
Beastyqt285
ToD233
Liquid`VortiX151
Mew2King99
ArmadaUGS93
QueenE66
Organizations
Other Games
PGL1055
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 25
• HeavenSC 24
• Reevou 5
• Adnapsc2 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• HappyZerGling68
Other Games
• Shiphtur57
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
2h 22m
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
15h 22m
Wardi Open
18h 22m
Monday Night Weeklies
23h 22m
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.