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On April 24 2015 03:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 03:30 brickrd wrote:On April 24 2015 00:21 DemigodcelpH wrote:On April 23 2015 02:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2015 23:48 Rainmansc wrote:On April 22 2015 12:19 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2015 11:58 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On April 22 2015 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 22 2015 10:31 IntoTheheart wrote:On April 22 2015 10:15 Fecalfeast wrote:
[quote]
Assuming you're not doubting the actual amount of time he puts into his stream, how is his work less valid than someone who sits in an office plugging numbers into a spreadsheet? There was also a tournament that he organized, which took a huge amount of time to pull together. That tournament was phenomenal, and he got so much unjustified hate from being transparent with donation distribution iirc. He works his ass off. it really saddened me when people flamed him over the internet because he made money out of his tournament. it was fucking pathetic. Community toxicity has been on the rise as of late. The reaction to Lycans Patreon launch on Reddit was nothing short of disgusting. There's no doubt that previous crowdfunding efforts and botches have poisoned the well but the open hostility from some people was a disgrace. Civility is a lost art it seems. Really? I remember commenting on one of your video's back in 2010 when sc2 came out. You made a video talking about new players learning the game. You kept going on with strategy stuff like scouting and reacting etc. I just made a suggestion that focussing on mechanics is maybe a better way to start of the game. You ranted me out on the comment section and blocked me from your channel. I think you should really look at yourself instead of making comments like ''community toxcity has been on the rise as of late''. I don't have a clue who you are, but what better way to demonstrate community toxicity than have a guy hold a 5 year grudge over being blocked from a Youtube channel and not making a single relevant contribution to the thread, instead attacking a caster and team owner? What a ridiculous statement "hey you blocked me 5 years ago on your Youtube channel so you're the cause of community toxicity!". Haha ok, sure yes, banning a random guy from a Youtube channel 5 years ago is why people on Reddit attacked a Patreon effort from Lycangrope. Also it probably had something to do with the Space Lizards that have infiltrated the highest levels of government right? He's just pointing out that you're quite toxic too at times. Not that you're the "source". Don't strawman him. cue standard TB response: "when other people act like dicks they're human garbage, when i act like a dick it's because i'm right and everyone else deserves it" Actually I was going to go with "If you don't want to get stung, don't stick your dick in a beehive", but hey whatever you want. Some community members seem to feel they have the right to shit on content creators but then act all surprised and hurt when they get a negative response.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that people in the community contribute to it in some minute way directly or indirectly (after all, how do you know that they aren't "content creators" themselves, aren't "content creators" just people who contribute social wealth or are involved in the creation of content, i.e. by definition everybody who works a job and is a constructive member of any community? Surely how much content someone produces or even has the ability to produce is often outside their own control and subject to circumstance and peer evaluation, and shouldn't be the important point here?), and that content creators wouldn't have the job that they have with out the community members being there.
I don't know why you have this "us vs them" mentality on forums when your rhetoric with your public persona has always been "US GAMERS" or what ever, unless a) that's a cheap marketing gimmick and you don't believe it at all, or b) you just don't have the patience or good will to act in the same civil manner on the forums as you do with regards to your primary source of income, if so why bother posting at all, surely you know better?
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On April 25 2015 01:47 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 03:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 24 2015 03:30 brickrd wrote:On April 24 2015 00:21 DemigodcelpH wrote:On April 23 2015 02:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2015 23:48 Rainmansc wrote:On April 22 2015 12:19 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 22 2015 11:58 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On April 22 2015 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 22 2015 10:31 IntoTheheart wrote:
[quote]
There was also a tournament that he organized, which took a huge amount of time to pull together. That tournament was phenomenal, and he got so much unjustified hate from being transparent with donation distribution iirc. He works his ass off. it really saddened me when people flamed him over the internet because he made money out of his tournament. it was fucking pathetic. Community toxicity has been on the rise as of late. The reaction to Lycans Patreon launch on Reddit was nothing short of disgusting. There's no doubt that previous crowdfunding efforts and botches have poisoned the well but the open hostility from some people was a disgrace. Civility is a lost art it seems. Really? I remember commenting on one of your video's back in 2010 when sc2 came out. You made a video talking about new players learning the game. You kept going on with strategy stuff like scouting and reacting etc. I just made a suggestion that focussing on mechanics is maybe a better way to start of the game. You ranted me out on the comment section and blocked me from your channel. I think you should really look at yourself instead of making comments like ''community toxcity has been on the rise as of late''. I don't have a clue who you are, but what better way to demonstrate community toxicity than have a guy hold a 5 year grudge over being blocked from a Youtube channel and not making a single relevant contribution to the thread, instead attacking a caster and team owner? What a ridiculous statement "hey you blocked me 5 years ago on your Youtube channel so you're the cause of community toxicity!". Haha ok, sure yes, banning a random guy from a Youtube channel 5 years ago is why people on Reddit attacked a Patreon effort from Lycangrope. Also it probably had something to do with the Space Lizards that have infiltrated the highest levels of government right? He's just pointing out that you're quite toxic too at times. Not that you're the "source". Don't strawman him. cue standard TB response: "when other people act like dicks they're human garbage, when i act like a dick it's because i'm right and everyone else deserves it" Actually I was going to go with "If you don't want to get stung, don't stick your dick in a beehive", but hey whatever you want. Some community members seem to feel they have the right to shit on content creators but then act all surprised and hurt when they get a negative response. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that people in the community contribute to it in some minute way directly or indirectly (after all, how do you know that they aren't "content creators" themselves, aren't "content creators" just people who contribute social wealth or are involved in the creation of content, i.e. by definition everybody who works a job and is a constructive member of any community? Surely how much content someone produces or even has the ability to produce is often outside their own control and subject to circumstance and peer evaluation, and shouldn't be the important point here?), and that content creators wouldn't have the job that they have with out the community members being there. I don't know why you have this "us vs them" mentality on forums when your rhetoric with your public persona has always been "US GAMERS" or what ever, unless a) that's a cheap marketing gimmick and you don't believe it at all, or b) you just don't have the patience or good will to act in the same civil manner on the forums as you do with regards to your primary source of income, if so why bother posting at all, surely you know better?
I don't have a persona. What you see is what you get.
I dislike anyone that shits on content creators in a scene that is having problems staying afloat and facing a potentially bleak future unless LOTV turns things around.
As for the "you wouldn't have a job if not for us" argument. No, we wouldn't have a job if not for our audience. The people shitting on us on forums are not our audience, they are not part of the equation. For every grump on the forums who decides he's upset today so he's going to take a shot at a content creator, there are thousands of people happily consuming that content. Those are the guys that matter, those are the guys that give us our jobs.
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See Caihead, the problem is that figures like TotalBiscuit (and for that matter iNcontroL, CatZ, Destiny and anyone remotely controversial) get shit all the time from people who don't contribute to the community in any way and who might as well not be a part of it in the first place. Your post has some merit to it, in theory, but you're not being realistic.
We're talking about people who literally do nothing but stir up drama wherever there's an opportunity, whether here or on r/starcraft, and nothing more. People who are always so quick to judge everything and everyone and do nothing but that, all the bloody time. It's the kind of kids that have never subscribed to a stream or donated for a tournament, or bought an MLG pass or bought a ticket to a LAN event, the same kids who do nothing but spam twitch chats with PROTOSSED and FUCK TERRAN and other such asinine bullshit and then complain when they get banned. They live for the drama, and don't contribute in any way shape or form to the community. All they know is how to bitch and whine and incite a shitstorm. And they act like they're untouchable, they're apparently free to criticize anyone and anything, but don't you dare talk shit about them.
When you have dozens of those fuckers yelling at you whenever you say or do something, I can imagine that getting pretty annoying.
To the community members who complain about all this negativity around SC2: if you want to change that, don't silence the people questioning Blizzard's design and balance decisions, instead start by removing these cancerous drama fiends that do nothing but stir shit and complain about everything all the time and who probably don't even play this bloody game or follow tournaments. -_-
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8751 Posts
On April 24 2015 21:17 fethers wrote:If there is anything to learn from this thread, it's that the old revenue model of content creators forcing viewers to watch intrusive ads doesn't really work all that well anymore.
the new revenue model is forcing viewers to watch intrusive donation and sub notifications instead. literally the most annoying thing to a person on the internet -- a sudden pop up interrupting and sometimes covering the content they were looking at with sound and animation and everything -- is what all the most popular streamers have. it's pretty crazy to me
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On April 25 2015 03:15 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 21:17 fethers wrote:On April 23 2015 03:55 Doodsmack wrote:
AdBlock is morally reprehensible. If there is anything to learn from this thread, it's that the old revenue model of content creators forcing viewers to watch intrusive ads doesn't really work all that well anymore. the new revenue model is forcing viewers to watch intrusive donation and sub notifications instead. literally the most annoying thing to a person on the internet -- a sudden pop up interrupting and sometimes covering the content they were looking at with sound and animation and everything -- is what all the most popular streamers have. it's pretty crazy to me
Its kind of amazing isnt it? Popup ads are what spurred the development of adblocker but constant pop-up donation notifications? AYE OK BRO! THIS IS THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF CONTENT! CELEBRATE THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE ADS (except for the constant donation ads).
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On April 23 2015 06:04 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 05:16 Tenks wrote:On April 23 2015 05:00 CanadianSC wrote:
Super sad to see small people outraged at a little success. Mr. Bonnel has a child to support as well - destiny fighting!~ This is the most amazing part. Destiny had the forethought and the balls to bet on himself when monetization of internet streaming was still a very new thing right after he had a kid. He quit his job and went all-in on this career path. I don't even watch Destiny nor do I really care for his entertainment style but I have to commend him for his brass balls. I like Destiny too but let's be real, he had 2000+ daily viewers when he quit his job and got to at least 3000 by the time his kid was born, and that was when CPM was much much higher and he could afford to live comfortably off ads alone.
CPM was higher back then? CPM has increased quite considerably compared to what it was in like ~2010 to 2013 or around then. Perhaps he gained more via ads due to the larger viewership and lessened number of individuals using adblock back then, but certainly, CPM has only been on the rise for both Twitch and Google.
edit: I am even pretty sure that differing twitch contracts (there are tiers) have different rates, and to my knowledge maybe TB can enlighten us, some of the CPM rates on youtube actually get quite high.
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On April 25 2015 03:47 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2015 06:04 Cheren wrote:On April 23 2015 05:16 Tenks wrote:On April 23 2015 05:00 CanadianSC wrote:
Super sad to see small people outraged at a little success. Mr. Bonnel has a child to support as well - destiny fighting!~ This is the most amazing part. Destiny had the forethought and the balls to bet on himself when monetization of internet streaming was still a very new thing right after he had a kid. He quit his job and went all-in on this career path. I don't even watch Destiny nor do I really care for his entertainment style but I have to commend him for his brass balls. I like Destiny too but let's be real, he had 2000+ daily viewers when he quit his job and got to at least 3000 by the time his kid was born, and that was when CPM was much much higher and he could afford to live comfortably off ads alone. CPM was higher back then? CPM has increased quite considerably compared to what it was in like ~2010 to 2013 or around then. Perhaps he gained more via ads due to the larger viewership and lessened number of individuals using adblock back then, but certainly, CPM has only been on the rise for both Twitch and Google. edit: I am even pretty sure that differing twitch contracts (there are tiers) have different rates, and to my knowledge maybe TB can enlighten us, some of the CPM rates on youtube actually get quite high.
CPM this year has been absolute dogshit, like earnings have been cut in half since the end of 2014 and its only just starting to recover.
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On April 25 2015 03:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2015 03:15 NonY wrote:On April 24 2015 21:17 fethers wrote:On April 23 2015 03:55 Doodsmack wrote:
AdBlock is morally reprehensible. If there is anything to learn from this thread, it's that the old revenue model of content creators forcing viewers to watch intrusive ads doesn't really work all that well anymore. the new revenue model is forcing viewers to watch intrusive donation and sub notifications instead. literally the most annoying thing to a person on the internet -- a sudden pop up interrupting and sometimes covering the content they were looking at with sound and animation and everything -- is what all the most popular streamers have. it's pretty crazy to me Its kind of amazing isnt it? Popup ads are what spurred the development of adblocker but constant pop-up donation notifications? AYE OK BRO! THIS IS THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF CONTENT! CELEBRATE THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE ADS (except for the constant donation ads).
the difference is that donation/sub notifications are saying to the other users "hey, i like this guy and want to support him". compared to regular adverts which are saying "buy me buy me buy me"
in the case of streamers, sub/donation notifications are specifically an expression of support, gratitude, solidarity, community, companionship
its no accident that people get welcomed the way they do when they sub to a stream (in the case of jp's channel you get a bunch of people spamming an icon in celebration and welcome)
i can see notifications becoming annoying when they interfere with the stream due to frequency/volume etc. but in my eyes they are expressions of community solidarity and very far from "intrusive donation and sub notifications" as put by nony
ps tb another fucking brilliant hs video, well played
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8751 Posts
"expressions of community solidarity" great euphemism for circlejerk
i put content into two categories: original content and reflective content. original content is like henry ford saying if i asked my customers what they wanted, they'd say faster horses, so he made cars instead. original content is having a personality that your fans think is cool, and your fans wish they could be like or they wish they could be friends with you, but they cant be you and they dont know how to meet anyone like you. it's doing new shit that people don't even know they like yet cuz they've never been exposed to it. original content is content made with uncommon skill or talent or just plain creativity and spontaneity. im a fan of original content. you wouldnt want shit like sub and donation notifications getting in the way of original content, cuz that's adding a repetitive ritual, which is just the opposite. that belongs in reflective content, which is a bunch of fan service, circlejerky kind of content, where the stream content basically represents the audience. it's people watching people behave just like they (the audience) behave, regurgitating whatever meme is popular atm, taking joy in making references where everyone can wink at each other and say "i got that reference!", saying completely predictable things in general, and pretty much never coming up with their own catchphrases or mannerisms or anything -- they're just a reflection of whatever is popular among their fans. and the audience having their names and messages be a large part of the content of the stream is obviously a pure example of reflective content.
the most popular streams have a mix of the two kinds of content. they make up their own catchphrases and assert their own personality, but they'll also absorb a lot of what's popular. they say "thanks for subbing" 100 times but at some point in a long stream they'll also say something completely unpredictable. their personality will be a bit offbeat, or an unusual combo of common personality traits, so you cant substitute them with a random person. and when they do interact with their audience, they assert their own personality in their reactions. it's not just laughing and agreeing with the hivemind. they're also probably really good (top 1% or better) at at least one game.
some streamers are popular while being more purely one or the other. i absolutely avoid someone who is completely unoriginal. i might be tempted if someone was actually reflective of me, but im pretty repulsed by the basic nerd/gamer/internet culture personality, so i'm not tempted at all. but it's basically just a community gathering, a purely social thing, and that's not why i watch streams anyway. i personally prefer someone who is original. and if you have someone making original content, you wouldnt want that other shit getting in the way. you can use your viewers as a way to prompt your original reactions, but you definitely arent doing some thoughtless ritual like "welcome to the community" or "hi how are you, im doing great". to the extent that streamers i like do that, i view it as a necessary evil, a bit of selling out that is worth it. and if they actually just like doing it, then that's fine too as long as they dont do too much of it.
the bothersome thing right now is that the vast majority of twitch viewers are actually resentful of someone who refuses to indulge them. don't interact with chat? fuck you. don't thank subs? fuck you. don't show my donation on stream? fuck you. it makes stream content more homogeneous. those things they want aren't necessarily improvements, but they dont even know that. a stream can actually be worse when the streamer indulges the viewers in conversation, or has to recognize every sub or donation, but there's a contagious bias against that notion. and if you dont do it, they just tune out. exceptions for talk shows and tournament streams are established -- they can safely run their content uninterrupted. but a guy just streaming his personal gaming? there are some unreasonable expectations that i wish there was more of a counter-movement to dispel. and the fact that one of those expectations is a universally hated thing, a pop-up, makes it an easy first target.
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Canada11355 Posts
On April 25 2015 11:04 NonY wrote:
"expressions of community solidarity" great euphemism for circlejerk
i put content into two categories: original content and reflective content. original content is like henry ford saying if i asked my customers what they wanted, they'd say faster horses, so he made cars instead. original content is having a personality that your fans think is cool, and your fans wish they could be like or they wish they could be friends with you, but they cant be you and they dont know how to meet anyone like you. it's doing new shit that people don't even know they like yet cuz they've never been exposed to it. original content is content made with uncommon skill or talent or just plain creativity and spontaneity. im a fan of original content. you wouldnt want shit like sub and donation notifications getting in the way of original content, cuz that's adding a repetitive ritual, which is just the opposite. that belongs in reflective content, which is a bunch of fan service, circlejerky kind of content, where the stream content basically represents the audience. it's people watching people behave just like they (the audience) behave, regurgitating whatever meme is popular atm, taking joy in making references where everyone can wink at each other and say "i got that reference!", saying completely predictable things in general, and pretty much never coming up with their own catchphrases or mannerisms or anything -- they're just a reflection of whatever is popular among their fans. and the audience having their names and messages be a large part of the content of the stream is obviously a pure example of reflective content.
the most popular streams have a mix of the two kinds of content. they make up their own catchphrases and assert their own personality, but they'll also absorb a lot of what's popular. they say "thanks for subbing" 100 times but at some point in a long stream they'll also say something completely unpredictable. their personality will be a bit offbeat, or an unusual combo of common personality traits, so you cant substitute them with a random person. and when they do interact with their audience, they assert their own personality in their reactions. it's not just laughing and agreeing with the hivemind. they're also probably really good (top 1% or better) at at least one game.
some streamers are popular while being more purely one or the other. i absolutely avoid someone who is completely unoriginal. i might be tempted if someone was actually reflective of me, but im pretty repulsed by the basic nerd/gamer/internet culture personality, so i'm not tempted at all. but it's basically just a community gathering, a purely social thing, and that's not why i watch streams anyway. i personally prefer someone who is original. and if you have someone making original content, you wouldnt want that other shit getting in the way. you can use your viewers as a way to prompt your original reactions, but you definitely arent doing some thoughtless ritual like "welcome to the community" or "hi how are you, im doing great". to the extent that streamers i like do that, i view it as a necessary evil, a bit of selling out that is worth it. and if they actually just like doing it, then that's fine too as long as they dont do too much of it.
the bothersome thing right now is that the vast majority of twitch viewers are actually resentful of someone who refuses to indulge them. don't interact with chat? fuck you. don't thank subs? fuck you. don't show my donation on stream? fuck you. it makes stream content more homogeneous. those things they want aren't necessarily improvements, but they dont even know that. a stream can actually be worse when the streamer indulges the viewers in conversation, or has to recognize every sub or donation, but there's a contagious bias against that notion. and if you dont do it, they just tune out. exceptions for talk shows and tournament streams are established -- they can safely run their content uninterrupted. but a guy just streaming his personal gaming? there are some unreasonable expectations that i wish there was more of a counter-movement to dispel. and the fact that one of those expectations is a universally hated thing, a pop-up, makes it an easy first target.
I'm sorry if I've missed the point of this post but are you saying that streamers need to stubbornly refuse to give their viewers what they want? You've certainly presented an accurate description of certain streams but why is it a problem that people (viewers, twitch chat) only support the providers of content they want to see?
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hes saying that people like to feel validated and recognised, but that doing so (with popups and commentary) doesnt actually add to the quality of a stream (and in his view subtracts from it)
i think i get what you're saying, but i tend to disagree. this is because content "quality" isn't all that important to me. i'm perfectly happy sitting around with 1000 other people watching someone play a random game for 6 hours straight. i'm happy with that level of quality. i treat it like hanging out with a friend or bunch of friends for a day, like a cafe or bar or clubhouse i come to to lounge around and chill. and i'm happy to be a patron of that bar, and happy when other people join it
that's my perspective.
when im in the mood for different quality stuff and not just "hanging out at my favourite clubhouse", ill go put on a dedicated youtube series or an anime or a movie or guitar tutorial or god forbid do some work
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 25 2015 11:04 NonY wrote:
"expressions of community solidarity" great euphemism for circlejerk
i put content into two categories: original content and reflective content. original content is like henry ford saying if i asked my customers what they wanted, they'd say faster horses, so he made cars instead. original content is having a personality that your fans think is cool, and your fans wish they could be like or they wish they could be friends with you, but they cant be you and they dont know how to meet anyone like you. it's doing new shit that people don't even know they like yet cuz they've never been exposed to it. original content is content made with uncommon skill or talent or just plain creativity and spontaneity. im a fan of original content. you wouldnt want shit like sub and donation notifications getting in the way of original content, cuz that's adding a repetitive ritual, which is just the opposite. that belongs in reflective content, which is a bunch of fan service, circlejerky kind of content, where the stream content basically represents the audience. it's people watching people behave just like they (the audience) behave, regurgitating whatever meme is popular atm, taking joy in making references where everyone can wink at each other and say "i got that reference!", saying completely predictable things in general, and pretty much never coming up with their own catchphrases or mannerisms or anything -- they're just a reflection of whatever is popular among their fans. and the audience having their names and messages be a large part of the content of the stream is obviously a pure example of reflective content.
the most popular streams have a mix of the two kinds of content. they make up their own catchphrases and assert their own personality, but they'll also absorb a lot of what's popular. they say "thanks for subbing" 100 times but at some point in a long stream they'll also say something completely unpredictable. their personality will be a bit offbeat, or an unusual combo of common personality traits, so you cant substitute them with a random person. and when they do interact with their audience, they assert their own personality in their reactions. it's not just laughing and agreeing with the hivemind. they're also probably really good (top 1% or better) at at least one game.
some streamers are popular while being more purely one or the other. i absolutely avoid someone who is completely unoriginal. i might be tempted if someone was actually reflective of me, but im pretty repulsed by the basic nerd/gamer/internet culture personality, so i'm not tempted at all. but it's basically just a community gathering, a purely social thing, and that's not why i watch streams anyway. i personally prefer someone who is original. and if you have someone making original content, you wouldnt want that other shit getting in the way. you can use your viewers as a way to prompt your original reactions, but you definitely arent doing some thoughtless ritual like "welcome to the community" or "hi how are you, im doing great". to the extent that streamers i like do that, i view it as a necessary evil, a bit of selling out that is worth it. and if they actually just like doing it, then that's fine too as long as they dont do too much of it.
the bothersome thing right now is that the vast majority of twitch viewers are actually resentful of someone who refuses to indulge them. don't interact with chat? fuck you. don't thank subs? fuck you. don't show my donation on stream? fuck you. it makes stream content more homogeneous. those things they want aren't necessarily improvements, but they dont even know that. a stream can actually be worse when the streamer indulges the viewers in conversation, or has to recognize every sub or donation, but there's a contagious bias against that notion. and if you dont do it, they just tune out. exceptions for talk shows and tournament streams are established -- they can safely run their content uninterrupted. but a guy just streaming his personal gaming? there are some unreasonable expectations that i wish there was more of a counter-movement to dispel. and the fact that one of those expectations is a universally hated thing, a pop-up, makes it an easy first target.
i know i wont add anything by this post, sorry, .. i feel compelled
<3 post, thank you for being
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NonY makes some damn good points about "streaming culture" and how it has the potential to become an albatross around the necks of streamers trying to do something different. The pandering, the focus on what the chat is saying rather than the game, I mean heck just using a game, something hundreds of people worked years on just as a vector to ask for donations is pretty damn dirty in my honest opinion. Not everyone does it but there is I think a push in that direction and much of it driven by the expectations of the average Twitch user. NonY is asking is, is that really healthy?
I'm fortunate I think to be one of only people who streams who can do it without asking for donations (we have no donation function), without even using a webcam, but for many others it seems like it's a necessity and as a result, many streams look the same and adopt a business model that is potentially obnoxious and puts the game second (and I personally always believe the game should be front and center)
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On April 22 2015 11:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[you dont get 100+ death-threats a year for working in an office. That's a plus.
It absolutely boggles my mind that people can just anonymously do this stuff without legal repercussion
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have stopped watching streams that announce donations or subscribers
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On April 26 2015 06:43 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
have stopped watching streams that announce donations or subscribers
Such streams exist? :0
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On April 26 2015 06:54 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 06:43 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
have stopped watching streams that announce donations or subscribers Such streams exist? :0
The majority of streams do this
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The subscriber/donation thing can get really annoying if it takes like 5 minutes everytime. Only thing I dislike about ads is that they usually stream in best quality, so i get lag spikes with my not that fast internet. Oh and 20 minutes ads that shouldn't exist.
I personally find ads more interesting then knowing whats going on in the twitch chat. Really insane that ad block is used that much.
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Re "real job" I read a few pages of comments and didn't see anyone mention the education factor. We're talking people in their early 20s spending the most important years of their lives going down a road with very little chance for changing it up/promotion/diversifying. What job can you apply your skills to after you're a popular streamer for several years? Hardly any. It's career suicide. Guy's like Demuslim might be the extremely popular in sc2, but you ask them what they would do if not sc2, and they look at you with a blank face. Even the Naniwas and MVPS have a hard time justifying gaming when with a 6 year degree they could be making more money doing a standard job.
So TLDR it's a huge sacrifice and one which I respect.
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On April 26 2015 04:44 TotalBiscuit wrote:
NonY makes some damn good points about "streaming culture" and how it has the potential to become an albatross around the necks of streamers trying to do something different. The pandering, the focus on what the chat is saying rather than the game, I mean heck just using a game, something hundreds of people worked years on just as a vector to ask for donations is pretty damn dirty in my honest opinion. Not everyone does it but there is I think a push in that direction and much of it driven by the expectations of the average Twitch user. NonY is asking is, is that really healthy?
I'm fortunate I think to be one of only people who streams who can do it without asking for donations (we have no donation function), without even using a webcam, but for many others it seems like it's a necessity and as a result, many streams look the same and adopt a business model that is potentially obnoxious and puts the game second (and I personally always believe the game should be front and center)
While there are exceptions, I don't think people watch twitch streamers primarily to see gameplay. If I wanted gameplay I would go play the game myself. People are watching twitch these days mostly to be entertained. The streamer is what makes it entertaining. The interaction makes it entertaining. Experiencing the game through the streamers eyes is entertaining. Feeling like a part of a community is entertaining.
I dont think this is entirely bad. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch twitch streams. And while if you are disgusted by internet culture and sub pop ups, don't watch. Why should the game come first? Again, I think most people aren't watching twitch streams purely for gameplay. They're watching for what the streamer adds to the gameplay.
And while you or I might personally not like the direction streams are headed: (webcamed, chat focused, sub notification things) the fact is that it seems to work. And again, I think it works for a reason. Watching joe schmoe play sc2 at GM level and nothing else is just boring to most people. Feeling like a part of Joe Schmoe as he plays, even if its an entirely superficial feeling, is more fun. Being a part of the group, is fun.
The only problem I have is with some of the donation begging. It makes me uneasy. But nobody is forcing anyone to give any money so meh.
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EPT
