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Russian Federation421 Posts
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 08:36 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:27 Deathstar wrote:On April 21 2015 08:25 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:20 Weavel wrote:
Maybe people will finally stop the disgusting ''matchfixking'' jokes. A joke? I wonder how you would feel if you lost thousands of dollards to matchfixers. You say, Let's just sweep it under the rug? Ignoring the problem will not solve it. If we don't adress the matchfixing it will get worse and worse. I would rather see anyone invovled in this scandal leave the scene and move on. Yeah you guys are doing a great job fixing the problem. Yes I did. I did everything that was in my power. I provided sreenshots of manipulated odds here on TL. I provided analysis on them since there are probably not a lot of people out there that know as much about that matter as I do. (E.G http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 ) Thank you for ridiculing the people that contribute to raise awareness. Awareness is not what's needed. What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically. It's addictive, to a level that makes the addiction in this story fairly tame. Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose. You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated. Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling. I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with.
You are changing the subject. Matchfixing is illegal and should be punished. What matters is whether MK fixed his match or not. If huge Kespa investigation or involvement of Korean police is needed to find out the truth than we should do our best to turn enough attention to make it happen. If MK is innocent, he has nothing to lose - this investigation will show it.
Getting rid of betting is even less real than getting sponsors for Proleague teams so that their players will have less incentive to fix matches. I don't see why TL posters should waste their time on it. It is also very hypocritical to blame gambling for match fixing, since it is a crime which hurts the gambling industry.
P.S. I have never made a bet in my life.
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On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
Awareness is not what's needed.
Where is your explanation that awareness is not needed?
I think every viewer should be aware that some of the matches he views are already determined beforehand. I think especially everyone who bets on it should be aware of it.
Last but not least awareness is the only chance that we get a official statement.
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically.
Why?
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
It's addictive
So is drinking and smoking. Should we make laws against anything that could potentially harm us? Should we also stop selling peanut butter because some people are allergic? There has to be a line somewhere obviously. While I agree that there are people out there that are adicted I don't think betting is evel or should be illegal. People should be educated enoguh to make their own choices.
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose.
For most people it's entertainment. Why is it bad to spend money on gambling? Is it worse than paying for concert or movie tickets?
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated.
I doubt I can make a living on the stock market with my few bucks. I am an expert on Sc2 and statistics, not on the stock market. Why would I be better of trading stocks I have no clues about?
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling.
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I would be interested what you have to say about that.
On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:
I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with.
Betting is illegal in Korea. I think it only makes the problem worse. People run to fishy illegal betting sides.
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On April 21 2015 09:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:On April 21 2015 08:36 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:27 Deathstar wrote:On April 21 2015 08:25 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:20 Weavel wrote:
Maybe people will finally stop the disgusting ''matchfixking'' jokes. A joke? I wonder how you would feel if you lost thousands of dollards to matchfixers. You say, Let's just sweep it under the rug? Ignoring the problem will not solve it. If we don't adress the matchfixing it will get worse and worse. I would rather see anyone invovled in this scandal leave the scene and move on. Yeah you guys are doing a great job fixing the problem. Yes I did. I did everything that was in my power. I provided sreenshots of manipulated odds here on TL. I provided analysis on them since there are probably not a lot of people out there that know as much about that matter as I do. (E.G http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 ) Thank you for ridiculing the people that contribute to raise awareness. Awareness is not what's needed. What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically. It's addictive, to a level that makes the addiction in this story fairly tame. Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose. You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated. Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling. I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with. This extends beyond the individuals betting on the match. Betting is illegal in Korea and match fixing is even worse. The last time we saw extensive match fixing some serious shit went down, and arguably was the killing blow to BW (as sponsors largely pulled out). If the scene is as rotten as is suggested by people on the forum, then the future of SC2 in Korea is in serious jeopardy. BW match fixing references; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/125601-match-fixing-scandal-conclusionhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/125673-match-fixing-scandal-some-vids-and-picshttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129321-progamer-ma-ive-never-suggested-match-fixinghttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/132467-match-fixing-trial-updates-24-06-2010http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129893-match-fixing-players-all-banned-by-kespa
This is why I point out that the root of the problem is not match-fixing. It's betting. Although I will concede that stopping people from betting on anything (to include any esport) is probably too much to hope for.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 21 2015 09:03 StarGalaxy wrote:
snip
Your post misses the core issue here.
On April 21 2015 09:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:On April 21 2015 08:36 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:27 Deathstar wrote:On April 21 2015 08:25 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:20 Weavel wrote:
Maybe people will finally stop the disgusting ''matchfixking'' jokes. A joke? I wonder how you would feel if you lost thousands of dollards to matchfixers. You say, Let's just sweep it under the rug? Ignoring the problem will not solve it. If we don't adress the matchfixing it will get worse and worse. I would rather see anyone invovled in this scandal leave the scene and move on. Yeah you guys are doing a great job fixing the problem. Yes I did. I did everything that was in my power. I provided sreenshots of manipulated odds here on TL. I provided analysis on them since there are probably not a lot of people out there that know as much about that matter as I do. (E.G http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 ) Thank you for ridiculing the people that contribute to raise awareness. Awareness is not what's needed. What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically. It's addictive, to a level that makes the addiction in this story fairly tame. Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose. You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated. Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling. I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with. This extends beyond the individuals betting on the match. Betting is illegal in Korea and match fixing is even worse. The last time we saw extensive match fixing some serious shit went down, and arguably was the killing blow to BW (as sponsors largely pulled out). If the scene is as rotten as is suggested by people on the forum, then the future of SC2 in Korea is in serious jeopardy. BW match fixing references; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/125601-match-fixing-scandal-conclusionhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/125673-match-fixing-scandal-some-vids-and-picshttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129321-progamer-ma-ive-never-suggested-match-fixinghttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/132467-match-fixing-trial-updates-24-06-2010http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129893-match-fixing-players-all-banned-by-kespa
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MKP's first comment shortly after the game was extremely defensive and he basically just attacked the bettors. Here, MVP's "investigation" is very biased. They have an expressed preconceived bias before they start their investigation. They say they asked MKP, and he denied it, so for them, "that was enough". They only did more because they had to "give an explanation to the community". They are basically MKP's family and their trust of his word is supreme. And this is before they start their investigation.
Suffice it to say, professional SC2 is in a very sad state of affairs. Even other public personalities are saying match fixing is rampant. Who's to say where it stops, and what past matches have been fixed? How much meaning should we give to outcomes now?
RIP SC2
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 21 2015 09:05 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 09:01 Plexa wrote:On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:On April 21 2015 08:36 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:27 Deathstar wrote:On April 21 2015 08:25 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:20 Weavel wrote:
Maybe people will finally stop the disgusting ''matchfixking'' jokes. A joke? I wonder how you would feel if you lost thousands of dollards to matchfixers. You say, Let's just sweep it under the rug? Ignoring the problem will not solve it. If we don't adress the matchfixing it will get worse and worse. I would rather see anyone invovled in this scandal leave the scene and move on. Yeah you guys are doing a great job fixing the problem. Yes I did. I did everything that was in my power. I provided sreenshots of manipulated odds here on TL. I provided analysis on them since there are probably not a lot of people out there that know as much about that matter as I do. (E.G http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 ) Thank you for ridiculing the people that contribute to raise awareness. Awareness is not what's needed. What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically. It's addictive, to a level that makes the addiction in this story fairly tame. Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose. You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated. Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling. I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with. This extends beyond the individuals betting on the match. Betting is illegal in Korea and match fixing is even worse. The last time we saw extensive match fixing some serious shit went down, and arguably was the killing blow to BW (as sponsors largely pulled out). If the scene is as rotten as is suggested by people on the forum, then the future of SC2 in Korea is in serious jeopardy. BW match fixing references; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/125601-match-fixing-scandal-conclusionhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/125673-match-fixing-scandal-some-vids-and-picshttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129321-progamer-ma-ive-never-suggested-match-fixinghttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/132467-match-fixing-trial-updates-24-06-2010http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129893-match-fixing-players-all-banned-by-kespa This is why I point out that the root of the problem is not match-fixing. It's betting. Although I will concede that stopping people from betting on anything (to include any esport) is probably too much to hope for. Your logic doesn't hold up because people can bet on these games from places where betting is legal, and purchase the knowledge of fixed matches and whatnot. So given that betting is legal somewhere, the core problem here is fundamentally matchfixing. The problem, however, is exacerbated in a country where betting is illegal and that illegal betting goes on.
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Finally!
I could never believe marineking would throw a game on purpose.
Sad that some people accuse him of this just because of a bad game and suspicious betting lines.
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On April 21 2015 09:05 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 09:01 Plexa wrote:On April 21 2015 08:47 felisconcolori wrote:On April 21 2015 08:36 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:27 Deathstar wrote:On April 21 2015 08:25 StarGalaxy wrote:On April 21 2015 08:20 Weavel wrote:
Maybe people will finally stop the disgusting ''matchfixking'' jokes. A joke? I wonder how you would feel if you lost thousands of dollards to matchfixers. You say, Let's just sweep it under the rug? Ignoring the problem will not solve it. If we don't adress the matchfixing it will get worse and worse. I would rather see anyone invovled in this scandal leave the scene and move on. Yeah you guys are doing a great job fixing the problem. Yes I did. I did everything that was in my power. I provided sreenshots of manipulated odds here on TL. I provided analysis on them since there are probably not a lot of people out there that know as much about that matter as I do. (E.G http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/476033-pinnacle-voids-dark-vs-san-bets-due-to-match-manipulation-concerns?page=52#1034 ) Thank you for ridiculing the people that contribute to raise awareness. Awareness is not what's needed. What's needed is awareness that betting, by and large, is a horrible thing to do even mathematically. It's addictive, to a level that makes the addiction in this story fairly tame. Gambling, as an industry, is built on the idea that a very few people will win, and a lot of people will lose. You're better off betting on the stock market, because while it does not have "resume from replay" it also is a hell of a lot better regulated. Anyway, I'm sorry that people don't appreciate that you take risks and lose money betting on something the majority of the world views as light entertainment at best. I'm sorry people don't realize the amount of effort you put into doing so in a rational manner, taking into account mathematical modeling. I'm not sorry that you don't see that betting is the root cause of the problem you are most concerned about dealing with. This extends beyond the individuals betting on the match. Betting is illegal in Korea and match fixing is even worse. The last time we saw extensive match fixing some serious shit went down, and arguably was the killing blow to BW (as sponsors largely pulled out). If the scene is as rotten as is suggested by people on the forum, then the future of SC2 in Korea is in serious jeopardy. BW match fixing references; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/125601-match-fixing-scandal-conclusionhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/125673-match-fixing-scandal-some-vids-and-picshttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129321-progamer-ma-ive-never-suggested-match-fixinghttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/132467-match-fixing-trial-updates-24-06-2010http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/129893-match-fixing-players-all-banned-by-kespa This is why I point out that the root of the problem is not match-fixing. It's betting. Although I will concede that stopping people from betting on anything (to include any esport) is probably too much to hope for.
I agree with you in principle, in that I also really don't support professional betting. But it isn't really the main problem here in this thread... The problem here is match fixing, which stems from betting, but isn't really best solved by removing betting from the face of the earth. So if the thread title was "professional betting is bad, mmkay", I'd have your back, but here you are off topic.
to make a silly analogy, let's say that someone ran down a biker because they didn't look in the mirror before turning. Then someone comes in and says that you shouldn't be driving anyway because it's bad for the environment. While true, most would agree that the easier to fix, and less controversial, problem is not looking in the mirror. Then start a separate thread about global warming if you want that discussion.
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On April 21 2015 07:50 TeeTS wrote:
Everyone who knows a little bit of Marineking can absolutely confirm, that he is one of the very last players, that will ever fix a match in any professional sport/esport for monetary gain.
I for myself would guarantee that for now and for the future. And since this is all about him, I don´t get what´s wrong with you. Marineking allways has been an extremely dedicated and fair compender in BW and SC2. He is an extremely passionate hard worker and he was never the guy that cared about the big bucks, NEVER! I find this whole discussion absolutely disrespectful. You should all be ashamed!
How can you guarantee anything? Do you know him? Do stay in constant contact? you're statement is groundless with nothing to back it up and then you want to tell a bunch of people they should be ashamed of themselves are you kidding me? I understand defending your favorite team and players but that was just stupid.
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I for myself would guarantee that for now and for the future
WOW what a valuable guarantee. Do you offer any type of monetary compensation if Marineking gets conviced as a matchfixer? Or will you put it in a signature forever that you were the guy who wrongly guaranteed the innoence of a guy you didn't know?
Thanks in advance.
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On April 21 2015 09:05 felisconcolori wrote:
This is why I point out that the root of the problem is not match-fixing. It's betting. Although I will concede that stopping people from betting on anything (to include any esport) is probably too much to hope for.
That's just a silly argument. That's like saying Sc2 is the root of the problem. If SC2 would not exist there would be no problems.
Of course match fixing exists because betting exists. That doesn't necessarily mean betting is the root of all evil.
You admit yourself that you can't expect people to stop betting on anything. Betting exists, making betting illegal cleary didn't help as we can see in Korea atm. I don't see how your pipe dream contributes to the discussion.
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On April 21 2015 08:22 Plexa wrote:While I agree there is little MVP can do in this situation, there's very strong circumstantial evidence that something fishy was up.
I always go back to this. All that the betting lines can ever prove is that something was known to gamblers. Could be anything. I get that people want to use MKP's horrendous play as proof that he was in on it, but that doesn't qualify as proof where i come from. Maybe on the internet, maybe in the court of public opinion.
I dearly wish that something was being done about this issue. It has tainted the entire Korean scene for me, and i still can't justify watching any Korean SC2, and haven't since this story first broke.
Ignorance would surely be bliss.
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On April 21 2015 09:29 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 08:22 Plexa wrote:While I agree there is little MVP can do in this situation, there's very strong circumstantial evidence that something fishy was up. I always go back to this. All that the betting lines can ever prove is that something was known to gamblers. Could be anything. I get that people want to use MKP's horrendous play as proof that he was in on it, but that doesn't qualify as proof where i come from. Maybe on the internet, maybe in the court of public opinion. I dearly wish that something was being done about this issue. It has tainted the entire Korean scene for me, and i still can't justify watching any Korean SC2, and haven't since this story first broke. Ignorance would surely be bliss.
Well if sponsors pull out, there won't be games period, at least of the magnitude we have grown accustomed to. There is a saying, you reap what you sow. Nothing good for sc2 can possibly come from an investigation. This is common sense and yet people are so adamant about MVP saying this, kespa doing that, and bringing the police in. So much for "fans" huh
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This response is like, the shittiest "Let's just say he didn't throw this game." response I've ever seen. I don't even know how it took them so long to write it, because it's so bad.
And that tweet (in second post) is sort of confusing.
I don't know if he was matchfixing, and I don't "know" if he even threw the game, but unless we have some really insane evidence showing MarineKing had like, a mental breakdown earlier in the day, or something totally absurd, I will always think he threw that game.
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its nice to see a team standing in for their players, but honestly I wouldn't have said that its proven to be wrong as there is no proof for or against the matchfixing. Just an awful game and proleague has a ton of those.
Anyway, Zerg is the best race for matchfixing, they just need to detonate their banelings by accident. 
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United States996 Posts
On April 21 2015 09:29 Goibon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 08:22 Plexa wrote:While I agree there is little MVP can do in this situation, there's very strong circumstantial evidence that something fishy was up. I always go back to this. All that the betting lines can ever prove is that something was known to gamblers. Could be anything. I get that people want to use MKP's horrendous play as proof that he was in on it, but that doesn't qualify as proof where i come from. Maybe on the internet, maybe in the court of public opinion.
Proof has to go beyond a reasonable doubt. To me, a way to prove match-fixing beyond a reasonable doubt, specifically using the game played, would be to see if MKP ever saw the spine or the creep in his base before the time he looked surprised seconds before the lings break in.
We know two things:
MKP is a progamer with many many thousands of games played.
MKP looks surprised at 5:50 in game time.
If, using the replay, we can see that his main screen (not the minimap) looks over to the spine/creep earlier, then knowing the two aforementioned facts, only two conclusions can be drawn. The first (and the much more unlikely of the two), MKP is the worst progamer in not only SC2, but in ESPORTS history. After scouting no expo from Z, and a proxy spine (and therefore hatch) at his backdoor, he was surprised that he was getting cheesed when the lings busted in? MVP would do well to let him go as soon as they could. The second, much more plausible explanation, is that he threw the game. Given how unlikely the first explanation is, I would feel like the explanation of match-fixing would easily remove all reasonable doubt and it would do the same for the majority of fans alike.
This feels like it is obviously the salient point and that's why I'm annoyed it wasn't specifically addressed in the response from MVP.
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Did MVP check MK's bank account for suspicious deposits?
Under his mattress for wads of cash?
Did they interview his teammates, friends, family to ask if he's been throwing around extra money?
If they didn't, it wasn't an investigation. it was a farce.
Oh, and to those saying that the burden of proof is on those accusing MK of matchfixing? The Pinnacle line movement is damning evidence to anybody who knows anything about gambling. (that is to say, if you handwave it away by saying "oh gamblers make bad bets all the time", you don't know what you're talking about.)
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On April 21 2015 07:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:https://www.facebook.com/MVPSC2/posts/316612535129091"Statement from our Team Manager JeeF: " And if we take a close view on MarineKing's match history, he hasn't won a few Proleague games recently, so it makes it even more unlikely that he did. ”
I personally don't care if he did or did not, but this 'statement' conveys nothing except that they are deciding to keep him on the team. Bolded portion would lead more towards the opposite in most peoples' eyes.
A simple tweet or post saying: "He has denied any involvement in the matter and we trust his word after reviewing the evidence" would have sufficed much better.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On April 21 2015 09:37 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2015 09:29 Goibon wrote:On April 21 2015 08:22 Plexa wrote:While I agree there is little MVP can do in this situation, there's very strong circumstantial evidence that something fishy was up. I always go back to this. All that the betting lines can ever prove is that something was known to gamblers. Could be anything. I get that people want to use MKP's horrendous play as proof that he was in on it, but that doesn't qualify as proof where i come from. Maybe on the internet, maybe in the court of public opinion. I dearly wish that something was being done about this issue. It has tainted the entire Korean scene for me, and i still can't justify watching any Korean SC2, and haven't since this story first broke. Ignorance would surely be bliss. Well if sponsors pull out, there won't be games period, at least of the magnitude we have grown accustomed to. There is a saying, you reap what you sow. Nothing good for sc2 can possibly come from an investigation. This is common sense and yet people are so adamant about MVP saying this, kespa doing that, and bringing the police in. So much for "fans" huh
Well you are the one arguing that illegal things are okay because it would ruin SC2 otherwise. This "for the greater good" logic never leads to greater good.
Matchfixing is like cancer, stop it early enough - it won't hurt you much, leave it unattended - you're dead. Believe it or not, it matters for some people that they watch a competition, not a play. They would just leave one by one and then only a couple of die-hard fans of some players/teams would be left - and Starcraft would die anyway.
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On April 21 2015 09:46 LightSpectra wrote:
Did MVP check MK's bank account for suspicious deposits?
Under his mattress for wads of cash?
Did they interview his teammates, friends, family to ask if he's been throwing around extra money?
If they didn't, it wasn't an investigation. it was a farce.
Oh, and to those saying that the burden of proof is on those accusing MK of matchfixing? The Pinnacle line movement is damning evidence to anybody who knows anything about gambling. (that is to say, if you handwave it away by saying "oh gamblers make bad bets all the time", you don't know what you're talking about.)
Uh, you mean, did MVP violate MK's constitutional rights as a citizen of the Republic of Korea to personal liberty and freedom from search except as provided by law?
No.
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EPT
