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Let's vote on stuchiu's top 10 of GOATs - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
April 15 2015 08:53 GMT
#61
Rain > INnoVation imho. Also it's hard to justify Parting > MMA
Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:06:43
April 15 2015 10:36 GMT
#62
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.

On April 15 2015 14:34 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:
On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.

We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.

Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.


The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.

People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins.

....

Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.


wahhaha...stopped reading here...oh too bad it was the last sentence LOL

Life certainly revolutionized ZvZ as well as ZvT, by his unique style that cant be copied. Better read what other Pros are saying about Life, instead coming up with your own random bulls****

+ Show Spoiler +
Wolf:
You know, Life, he, he just, when we, we saw him he gave us the biggest smile, and I love that guy's attitude, just such, such enthusiasm for the game, loves to take all the risks, he is the wild card of ZeNEX by far.


Apollo:
He has the most stupidest builds I've ever seen. . . he's actually insane!

I would never ever ever say that Life's made a mistake...Life is so good at this matchup (referring to his ZvZ)


Acer_Scarlett':
Him and suho are my favourite zergs to watch because they don't play boring same thing every game unlike everybody else ^^ Only two people I go out of my way to watch all their gsl vods


CreatorPrime:
He just has such a free-form style, you never know what he's going to do. So his play differed a lot from my expectations.


MarineKing on facing Life in the Round of 8:
I have to play a Bo5 against the one player that I really didn't want to face.

He's even better at using his zerglings than DRG is. Also, he seems to playing his games with a very recent source of ambition so I don't feel confident that I'll win. I've seen him do tons of plays where he just presses his opponent in to a corner, so I'm going to work on pushing out of that corner.


Artosis:
The most badass killer i have met at this age.


MVPSniper:
You were highly praised along with Life around the same time.

My teammates state that Life is on another level when they watch his games. I also felt a lot of different things, so in order to change, I am going to work really hard.

You must have copied Life's style.

I think a lot of Zerg players probably have tried to copy Life's style. But the fact that everyone has their own style they adhere to still exists and it's also really hard to gain advantages with your lings like Life does. A lot of Zergs like to play greedy ever since the queen buff but Life is different.


FXOSirius:
I think he's really physically solid. He's a young player, but he's a player who's bursting with confidence and doesn't get intimidated as he just plays his plays, and I think that's why he get such positive results.


TSLRagnarok:
Life's style is something that he perfected on ladder. It's not something that anyone can easily emulate, and I think Terrans are losing because they are unable to respond to it. I think Life is an amazing player.

Life's style must have become a hot topic within the Zerg-heavy TSL.

It has. It's a style that can only be performed with Life's level of control and understanding of strategy. It's just a style involving simultaneous production of Zerglings and Drones, but it's not something that you can merely do after watching it. Because such a young player as Life made it to the Code S finals on his first try, I felt some irritation, too.


StarTaleParting:
Life's skill is really great now, and he's really young, and very confident, and has very strong combat ability.


StarTaleCurious:
Have you felt inspired by how well your teammate, Life, is doing?

I have, and I also think that his performance at such a young age is astounding. I'm learning a lot by being at Life's side, so I'm wondering whether I can't grow stronger by absorbing his style.


MVPDongraegu:
Many pros have said that they have tried to emulate Life's style but failed.

I've also tried it once, but my win rate wasn't as high as when I played normally, so I don't know. Because knowing more styles is always better, I want to practice it, but it will take a great amount of time to become as good at using it as Life is.


IMYoda:
Many KeSPA players have advanced to Code S this season. is there anyone whom you want to avoid?

In my view, KeSPA and eSF players are all the same type of gamer. With the exception of Mvp and Life, I don't think there are too many differences between them. Life has always been amazing, and I think that Mvp is a player on another level. People say that they are on a different class, and I can feel it.


TSLSymbol:
You played a very one sided match against Hack in the winners' round. Were your strategies separately planned?

As of late, I had been going for no gas strategies against Terrans. But then I saw Life and how he played so I decided to mimic him. I realized afterwards that that's something that only Life can pull off. So I decided to just kind of resemble my early game to his and then throw in my own style for the transitions. When you watch Life play, you realize that it's really difficult because you have to spend your larvas wisely trying to get the right amount of both lings and drones but Life is excellent at it. I tried it out and I saw that I end up playing poorly.


StarTaleHack:
I've set my goal for the semi finals so I can go to Las Vegas. I also tend to get a lot of thoughts that I won't ever be able to beat Zerg thanks to my practices against Life. Overcoming that kind of feeling is my second goal for this season.


IMNestea:
The biggest talk right now is about the GSL Season 4 champion Life. What do you think of him as a fellow Zerg player?

I knew Life was a good player. He seems to be finally in the spotlight. I was so surprised when I watched the finals. Something like, 'So Zerg can play like this'. When I watched DRG and Leenock's play, I just thought of them as being 'good', but Life is just amazing. He is different from the current Zerg style and it was something fresh. He showcased a play nobody else can show off. I expect good things from him.

You probably tried out his style at least once.

Yes. I tried it many times, but every time I tried I lost. (Laugh) This is a style he created through extensive practice. Whenever I try a ling run-by, I lose to a full-front assault at this timing, to the point of total devastation. He knows which time is to attack, when no army is at the opponent's base. Players facing Life get attacked at the most unusual timing that have never been faced before, so they get shaken up and lose. The most impressive thing he does is how many lings he makes. That doesn't mean his drone count is low at all. This makes the game flow seamlessly.

So what is your answer to his style?

Hmm... maybe if I was a little younger? (Laugh) If I was at Life's age, I could have tried something like that. I put much thoughts on it, and my answer is that it's impossible to imitate. His concept is totally different from mine. Many other Zerg players probably tried it themselves and came up with the same answer. They might try to mimic here and there, but it's not something the conventional Zerg can easily follow.


STBrain:
Back when you were in ZeNEX, did you grow your skills by practicing with Life?

Even back then, the skill difference between Life and myself was significant. The difference was so large that I was too embarrassed to ask him to play practice games with me.


Miya:
Recently, Life, a fellow Zerg, has won both the GSL and MLG. Was this an inspiration for you?

Life may be a Zerg player like me, but the differences in the way he plays made me wonder whether I'm playing Zerg properly. I've tried emulating Life's play style but failed. No matter how much effort I put in, it wasn't easy to follow his aggressive style, so I plan to stick to my own.


in your face.
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3748 Posts
April 15 2015 13:12 GMT
#63
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".

In any case - it's not obvious how to interpret these polls but some simple calculation with points and weights resulted in this:


Some poll interpretation
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. MC
4. TaeJa
5. MMA
6. NesTea
7. Parting
8. Polt
9. INnoVation
10. Zest

Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
April 15 2015 13:16 GMT
#64
"in your face" wasnt even directed to you
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:42:18
April 15 2015 13:39 GMT
#65
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-16 13:06:01
April 16 2015 02:50 GMT
#66
On April 15 2015 22:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.

Rain and Innovation are both very good.

IMHO I think Rain and Innovation are more deserving of being on the GOAT list than Zest.

First of all, they actually changed their respective mirror matchups. Rain changed pvp, and Innovation changed tvt, while Zest simply improved based on Rain's pvp play while adding a bit of "risk" into his play.

Second of all, both of them were more consistent than Zest because they were both relevant since the beginning of the KeSPA transfer int oSC2 from BW, not only in one year, while Zest rose only because Toss was "OP" at the time.

Rain won against arguably the best Zerg at that time, DRG in OSL, and is still winning a lot, despite leaving KeSPA.
P.S. Both Rain and Innovation awere weaker since leaving KeSPA, (Rain to mYinsanity, Innovation to Acer).

Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final (Like Dear) in the span of two weeks, and they both rekt nerds in Proleague, and they were the undisputed aces of their teams WHILE HAVING A GOOD WINNING RECORD, unlike Zest this season (year).

so if anything Rain and Innovation should be on the list, not Zest.

Then we come to the argument of who is better, Rain or Innovation?

Rain was the first KeSPA player to be successful in individual tournaments, while Innovation was mostly dominant in the first few months of HOTS. However, Rain was consistent throughout HOTS but Innovation plummeted after leaving STX and joining team Acer, now that Innovation is back in KeSPA (SKT) he is becoming as "godlike" (not really). He suffered a slump, but that happens to all players, like the one Rain is going through now.

On the other hand, Rain won the Auction All-kill OSL and could've won GSL against arguably the best players in WOL, while Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final, but for Innovation he was that successful because he abused Hellbat TvT and widow mines in the other matchups and was 'better' than using widow mines than most except for Flash, and also when everyone was clueless about how the matchups worked because it was the start of HOTS, after a few months, ppl started to figure out HOTS more and guess what? Innovation is not as god like as he was, whereas Rain was still consistent.

So I think it is fair to say that [Rain > Innovation (Slightly)] > Zest.
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
April 16 2015 18:10 GMT
#67
Scoobers for sure #0
When cats speak, mice listen.
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