• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:35
CEST 20:35
KST 03:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)8Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly5
StarCraft 2
General
Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014 Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 1/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5448 users

Let's vote on stuchiu's top 10 of GOATs - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3769 Posts
April 15 2015 08:53 GMT
#61
Rain > INnoVation imho. Also it's hard to justify Parting > MMA
Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:06:43
April 15 2015 10:36 GMT
#62
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.

On April 15 2015 14:34 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:
On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.

We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.

Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.


The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.

People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins.

....

Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.


wahhaha...stopped reading here...oh too bad it was the last sentence LOL

Life certainly revolutionized ZvZ as well as ZvT, by his unique style that cant be copied. Better read what other Pros are saying about Life, instead coming up with your own random bulls****

+ Show Spoiler +
Wolf:
You know, Life, he, he just, when we, we saw him he gave us the biggest smile, and I love that guy's attitude, just such, such enthusiasm for the game, loves to take all the risks, he is the wild card of ZeNEX by far.


Apollo:
He has the most stupidest builds I've ever seen. . . he's actually insane!

I would never ever ever say that Life's made a mistake...Life is so good at this matchup (referring to his ZvZ)


Acer_Scarlett':
Him and suho are my favourite zergs to watch because they don't play boring same thing every game unlike everybody else ^^ Only two people I go out of my way to watch all their gsl vods


CreatorPrime:
He just has such a free-form style, you never know what he's going to do. So his play differed a lot from my expectations.


MarineKing on facing Life in the Round of 8:
I have to play a Bo5 against the one player that I really didn't want to face.

He's even better at using his zerglings than DRG is. Also, he seems to playing his games with a very recent source of ambition so I don't feel confident that I'll win. I've seen him do tons of plays where he just presses his opponent in to a corner, so I'm going to work on pushing out of that corner.


Artosis:
The most badass killer i have met at this age.


MVPSniper:
You were highly praised along with Life around the same time.

My teammates state that Life is on another level when they watch his games. I also felt a lot of different things, so in order to change, I am going to work really hard.

You must have copied Life's style.

I think a lot of Zerg players probably have tried to copy Life's style. But the fact that everyone has their own style they adhere to still exists and it's also really hard to gain advantages with your lings like Life does. A lot of Zergs like to play greedy ever since the queen buff but Life is different.


FXOSirius:
I think he's really physically solid. He's a young player, but he's a player who's bursting with confidence and doesn't get intimidated as he just plays his plays, and I think that's why he get such positive results.


TSLRagnarok:
Life's style is something that he perfected on ladder. It's not something that anyone can easily emulate, and I think Terrans are losing because they are unable to respond to it. I think Life is an amazing player.

Life's style must have become a hot topic within the Zerg-heavy TSL.

It has. It's a style that can only be performed with Life's level of control and understanding of strategy. It's just a style involving simultaneous production of Zerglings and Drones, but it's not something that you can merely do after watching it. Because such a young player as Life made it to the Code S finals on his first try, I felt some irritation, too.


StarTaleParting:
Life's skill is really great now, and he's really young, and very confident, and has very strong combat ability.


StarTaleCurious:
Have you felt inspired by how well your teammate, Life, is doing?

I have, and I also think that his performance at such a young age is astounding. I'm learning a lot by being at Life's side, so I'm wondering whether I can't grow stronger by absorbing his style.


MVPDongraegu:
Many pros have said that they have tried to emulate Life's style but failed.

I've also tried it once, but my win rate wasn't as high as when I played normally, so I don't know. Because knowing more styles is always better, I want to practice it, but it will take a great amount of time to become as good at using it as Life is.


IMYoda:
Many KeSPA players have advanced to Code S this season. is there anyone whom you want to avoid?

In my view, KeSPA and eSF players are all the same type of gamer. With the exception of Mvp and Life, I don't think there are too many differences between them. Life has always been amazing, and I think that Mvp is a player on another level. People say that they are on a different class, and I can feel it.


TSLSymbol:
You played a very one sided match against Hack in the winners' round. Were your strategies separately planned?

As of late, I had been going for no gas strategies against Terrans. But then I saw Life and how he played so I decided to mimic him. I realized afterwards that that's something that only Life can pull off. So I decided to just kind of resemble my early game to his and then throw in my own style for the transitions. When you watch Life play, you realize that it's really difficult because you have to spend your larvas wisely trying to get the right amount of both lings and drones but Life is excellent at it. I tried it out and I saw that I end up playing poorly.


StarTaleHack:
I've set my goal for the semi finals so I can go to Las Vegas. I also tend to get a lot of thoughts that I won't ever be able to beat Zerg thanks to my practices against Life. Overcoming that kind of feeling is my second goal for this season.


IMNestea:
The biggest talk right now is about the GSL Season 4 champion Life. What do you think of him as a fellow Zerg player?

I knew Life was a good player. He seems to be finally in the spotlight. I was so surprised when I watched the finals. Something like, 'So Zerg can play like this'. When I watched DRG and Leenock's play, I just thought of them as being 'good', but Life is just amazing. He is different from the current Zerg style and it was something fresh. He showcased a play nobody else can show off. I expect good things from him.

You probably tried out his style at least once.

Yes. I tried it many times, but every time I tried I lost. (Laugh) This is a style he created through extensive practice. Whenever I try a ling run-by, I lose to a full-front assault at this timing, to the point of total devastation. He knows which time is to attack, when no army is at the opponent's base. Players facing Life get attacked at the most unusual timing that have never been faced before, so they get shaken up and lose. The most impressive thing he does is how many lings he makes. That doesn't mean his drone count is low at all. This makes the game flow seamlessly.

So what is your answer to his style?

Hmm... maybe if I was a little younger? (Laugh) If I was at Life's age, I could have tried something like that. I put much thoughts on it, and my answer is that it's impossible to imitate. His concept is totally different from mine. Many other Zerg players probably tried it themselves and came up with the same answer. They might try to mimic here and there, but it's not something the conventional Zerg can easily follow.


STBrain:
Back when you were in ZeNEX, did you grow your skills by practicing with Life?

Even back then, the skill difference between Life and myself was significant. The difference was so large that I was too embarrassed to ask him to play practice games with me.


Miya:
Recently, Life, a fellow Zerg, has won both the GSL and MLG. Was this an inspiration for you?

Life may be a Zerg player like me, but the differences in the way he plays made me wonder whether I'm playing Zerg properly. I've tried emulating Life's play style but failed. No matter how much effort I put in, it wasn't easy to follow his aggressive style, so I plan to stick to my own.


in your face.
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3769 Posts
April 15 2015 13:12 GMT
#63
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".

In any case - it's not obvious how to interpret these polls but some simple calculation with points and weights resulted in this:


Some poll interpretation
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. MC
4. TaeJa
5. MMA
6. NesTea
7. Parting
8. Polt
9. INnoVation
10. Zest

Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
April 15 2015 13:16 GMT
#64
"in your face" wasnt even directed to you
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:42:18
April 15 2015 13:39 GMT
#65
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-16 13:06:01
April 16 2015 02:50 GMT
#66
On April 15 2015 22:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.

Rain and Innovation are both very good.

IMHO I think Rain and Innovation are more deserving of being on the GOAT list than Zest.

First of all, they actually changed their respective mirror matchups. Rain changed pvp, and Innovation changed tvt, while Zest simply improved based on Rain's pvp play while adding a bit of "risk" into his play.

Second of all, both of them were more consistent than Zest because they were both relevant since the beginning of the KeSPA transfer int oSC2 from BW, not only in one year, while Zest rose only because Toss was "OP" at the time.

Rain won against arguably the best Zerg at that time, DRG in OSL, and is still winning a lot, despite leaving KeSPA.
P.S. Both Rain and Innovation awere weaker since leaving KeSPA, (Rain to mYinsanity, Innovation to Acer).

Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final (Like Dear) in the span of two weeks, and they both rekt nerds in Proleague, and they were the undisputed aces of their teams WHILE HAVING A GOOD WINNING RECORD, unlike Zest this season (year).

so if anything Rain and Innovation should be on the list, not Zest.

Then we come to the argument of who is better, Rain or Innovation?

Rain was the first KeSPA player to be successful in individual tournaments, while Innovation was mostly dominant in the first few months of HOTS. However, Rain was consistent throughout HOTS but Innovation plummeted after leaving STX and joining team Acer, now that Innovation is back in KeSPA (SKT) he is becoming as "godlike" (not really). He suffered a slump, but that happens to all players, like the one Rain is going through now.

On the other hand, Rain won the Auction All-kill OSL and could've won GSL against arguably the best players in WOL, while Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final, but for Innovation he was that successful because he abused Hellbat TvT and widow mines in the other matchups and was 'better' than using widow mines than most except for Flash, and also when everyone was clueless about how the matchups worked because it was the start of HOTS, after a few months, ppl started to figure out HOTS more and guess what? Innovation is not as god like as he was, whereas Rain was still consistent.

So I think it is fair to say that [Rain > Innovation (Slightly)] > Zest.
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
April 16 2015 18:10 GMT
#67
Scoobers for sure #0
When cats speak, mice listen.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeagueFINALS ST vs PTB
Freeedom29
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 75
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17932
Calm 4161
Soulkey 278
firebathero 274
ggaemo 149
actioN 133
Hyun 50
Rock 17
IntoTheRainbow 14
Dota 2
Gorgc11953
NeuroSwarm104
febbydoto22
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g7756
minikerr78
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu345
Other Games
FrodaN2191
B2W.Neo694
Mlord625
ceh9550
uThermal419
TKL 383
ToD223
ROOTCatZ165
Hui .146
RotterdaM124
XaKoH 106
MindelVK4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick900
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 84
• StrangeGG 61
• davetesta18
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 32
• FirePhoenix22
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3222
• WagamamaTV578
League of Legends
• Nemesis1619
• Jankos1516
Other Games
• Shiphtur441
Upcoming Events
PiG Sty Festival
5h 26m
Afreeca Starleague
9h 26m
RSL Revival
14h 26m
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
17h 26m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 16h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W5
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSLAN 4
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.