• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:19
CET 05:19
KST 13:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Recent recommended BW games ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2026 Changsha Offline Cup [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11823 users

Let's vote on stuchiu's top 10 of GOATs - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3753 Posts
April 15 2015 08:53 GMT
#61
Rain > INnoVation imho. Also it's hard to justify Parting > MMA
Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:06:43
April 15 2015 10:36 GMT
#62
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.

On April 15 2015 14:34 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:
On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.

We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.

Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.


The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.

People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins.

....

Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.


wahhaha...stopped reading here...oh too bad it was the last sentence LOL

Life certainly revolutionized ZvZ as well as ZvT, by his unique style that cant be copied. Better read what other Pros are saying about Life, instead coming up with your own random bulls****

+ Show Spoiler +
Wolf:
You know, Life, he, he just, when we, we saw him he gave us the biggest smile, and I love that guy's attitude, just such, such enthusiasm for the game, loves to take all the risks, he is the wild card of ZeNEX by far.


Apollo:
He has the most stupidest builds I've ever seen. . . he's actually insane!

I would never ever ever say that Life's made a mistake...Life is so good at this matchup (referring to his ZvZ)


Acer_Scarlett':
Him and suho are my favourite zergs to watch because they don't play boring same thing every game unlike everybody else ^^ Only two people I go out of my way to watch all their gsl vods


CreatorPrime:
He just has such a free-form style, you never know what he's going to do. So his play differed a lot from my expectations.


MarineKing on facing Life in the Round of 8:
I have to play a Bo5 against the one player that I really didn't want to face.

He's even better at using his zerglings than DRG is. Also, he seems to playing his games with a very recent source of ambition so I don't feel confident that I'll win. I've seen him do tons of plays where he just presses his opponent in to a corner, so I'm going to work on pushing out of that corner.


Artosis:
The most badass killer i have met at this age.


MVPSniper:
You were highly praised along with Life around the same time.

My teammates state that Life is on another level when they watch his games. I also felt a lot of different things, so in order to change, I am going to work really hard.

You must have copied Life's style.

I think a lot of Zerg players probably have tried to copy Life's style. But the fact that everyone has their own style they adhere to still exists and it's also really hard to gain advantages with your lings like Life does. A lot of Zergs like to play greedy ever since the queen buff but Life is different.


FXOSirius:
I think he's really physically solid. He's a young player, but he's a player who's bursting with confidence and doesn't get intimidated as he just plays his plays, and I think that's why he get such positive results.


TSLRagnarok:
Life's style is something that he perfected on ladder. It's not something that anyone can easily emulate, and I think Terrans are losing because they are unable to respond to it. I think Life is an amazing player.

Life's style must have become a hot topic within the Zerg-heavy TSL.

It has. It's a style that can only be performed with Life's level of control and understanding of strategy. It's just a style involving simultaneous production of Zerglings and Drones, but it's not something that you can merely do after watching it. Because such a young player as Life made it to the Code S finals on his first try, I felt some irritation, too.


StarTaleParting:
Life's skill is really great now, and he's really young, and very confident, and has very strong combat ability.


StarTaleCurious:
Have you felt inspired by how well your teammate, Life, is doing?

I have, and I also think that his performance at such a young age is astounding. I'm learning a lot by being at Life's side, so I'm wondering whether I can't grow stronger by absorbing his style.


MVPDongraegu:
Many pros have said that they have tried to emulate Life's style but failed.

I've also tried it once, but my win rate wasn't as high as when I played normally, so I don't know. Because knowing more styles is always better, I want to practice it, but it will take a great amount of time to become as good at using it as Life is.


IMYoda:
Many KeSPA players have advanced to Code S this season. is there anyone whom you want to avoid?

In my view, KeSPA and eSF players are all the same type of gamer. With the exception of Mvp and Life, I don't think there are too many differences between them. Life has always been amazing, and I think that Mvp is a player on another level. People say that they are on a different class, and I can feel it.


TSLSymbol:
You played a very one sided match against Hack in the winners' round. Were your strategies separately planned?

As of late, I had been going for no gas strategies against Terrans. But then I saw Life and how he played so I decided to mimic him. I realized afterwards that that's something that only Life can pull off. So I decided to just kind of resemble my early game to his and then throw in my own style for the transitions. When you watch Life play, you realize that it's really difficult because you have to spend your larvas wisely trying to get the right amount of both lings and drones but Life is excellent at it. I tried it out and I saw that I end up playing poorly.


StarTaleHack:
I've set my goal for the semi finals so I can go to Las Vegas. I also tend to get a lot of thoughts that I won't ever be able to beat Zerg thanks to my practices against Life. Overcoming that kind of feeling is my second goal for this season.


IMNestea:
The biggest talk right now is about the GSL Season 4 champion Life. What do you think of him as a fellow Zerg player?

I knew Life was a good player. He seems to be finally in the spotlight. I was so surprised when I watched the finals. Something like, 'So Zerg can play like this'. When I watched DRG and Leenock's play, I just thought of them as being 'good', but Life is just amazing. He is different from the current Zerg style and it was something fresh. He showcased a play nobody else can show off. I expect good things from him.

You probably tried out his style at least once.

Yes. I tried it many times, but every time I tried I lost. (Laugh) This is a style he created through extensive practice. Whenever I try a ling run-by, I lose to a full-front assault at this timing, to the point of total devastation. He knows which time is to attack, when no army is at the opponent's base. Players facing Life get attacked at the most unusual timing that have never been faced before, so they get shaken up and lose. The most impressive thing he does is how many lings he makes. That doesn't mean his drone count is low at all. This makes the game flow seamlessly.

So what is your answer to his style?

Hmm... maybe if I was a little younger? (Laugh) If I was at Life's age, I could have tried something like that. I put much thoughts on it, and my answer is that it's impossible to imitate. His concept is totally different from mine. Many other Zerg players probably tried it themselves and came up with the same answer. They might try to mimic here and there, but it's not something the conventional Zerg can easily follow.


STBrain:
Back when you were in ZeNEX, did you grow your skills by practicing with Life?

Even back then, the skill difference between Life and myself was significant. The difference was so large that I was too embarrassed to ask him to play practice games with me.


Miya:
Recently, Life, a fellow Zerg, has won both the GSL and MLG. Was this an inspiration for you?

Life may be a Zerg player like me, but the differences in the way he plays made me wonder whether I'm playing Zerg properly. I've tried emulating Life's play style but failed. No matter how much effort I put in, it wasn't easy to follow his aggressive style, so I plan to stick to my own.


in your face.
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
nimdil
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland3753 Posts
April 15 2015 13:12 GMT
#63
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".

In any case - it's not obvious how to interpret these polls but some simple calculation with points and weights resulted in this:


Some poll interpretation
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. MC
4. TaeJa
5. MMA
6. NesTea
7. Parting
8. Polt
9. INnoVation
10. Zest

Inzan1ty
Profile Joined September 2012
1163 Posts
April 15 2015 13:16 GMT
#64
"in your face" wasnt even directed to you
RIP Seung Hyun 'Space' Park † 6/5/2013 - Undead hero and eSports rolemodel
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 13:42:18
April 15 2015 13:39 GMT
#65
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
MiniFotToss
Profile Joined December 2013
China2430 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-16 13:06:01
April 16 2015 02:50 GMT
#66
On April 15 2015 22:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:
On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.


yea.......no.


in your face.


Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".


Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.

Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.

Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.

So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.

So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.

Rain and Innovation are both very good.

IMHO I think Rain and Innovation are more deserving of being on the GOAT list than Zest.

First of all, they actually changed their respective mirror matchups. Rain changed pvp, and Innovation changed tvt, while Zest simply improved based on Rain's pvp play while adding a bit of "risk" into his play.

Second of all, both of them were more consistent than Zest because they were both relevant since the beginning of the KeSPA transfer int oSC2 from BW, not only in one year, while Zest rose only because Toss was "OP" at the time.

Rain won against arguably the best Zerg at that time, DRG in OSL, and is still winning a lot, despite leaving KeSPA.
P.S. Both Rain and Innovation awere weaker since leaving KeSPA, (Rain to mYinsanity, Innovation to Acer).

Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final (Like Dear) in the span of two weeks, and they both rekt nerds in Proleague, and they were the undisputed aces of their teams WHILE HAVING A GOOD WINNING RECORD, unlike Zest this season (year).

so if anything Rain and Innovation should be on the list, not Zest.

Then we come to the argument of who is better, Rain or Innovation?

Rain was the first KeSPA player to be successful in individual tournaments, while Innovation was mostly dominant in the first few months of HOTS. However, Rain was consistent throughout HOTS but Innovation plummeted after leaving STX and joining team Acer, now that Innovation is back in KeSPA (SKT) he is becoming as "godlike" (not really). He suffered a slump, but that happens to all players, like the one Rain is going through now.

On the other hand, Rain won the Auction All-kill OSL and could've won GSL against arguably the best players in WOL, while Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final, but for Innovation he was that successful because he abused Hellbat TvT and widow mines in the other matchups and was 'better' than using widow mines than most except for Flash, and also when everyone was clueless about how the matchups worked because it was the start of HOTS, after a few months, ppl started to figure out HOTS more and guess what? Innovation is not as god like as he was, whereas Rain was still consistent.

So I think it is fair to say that [Rain > Innovation (Slightly)] > Zest.
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
April 16 2015 18:10 GMT
#67
Scoobers for sure #0
When cats speak, mice listen.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
22:00
Best Games of SC
Maru vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
herO vs Clem
SHIN vs ByuN
herO vs SHIN
TBD vs ByuN
PiGStarcraft481
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft481
RuFF_SC2 208
Nina 99
-ZergGirl 44
Ketroc 37
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 387
Noble 42
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever258
febbydoto2
League of Legends
JimRising 615
Counter-Strike
tarik_tv4112
Other Games
summit1g10572
C9.Mang0450
WinterStarcraft317
crisheroes247
ViBE141
ToD23
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV67
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH244
• davetesta35
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 70
• Azhi_Dahaki22
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
5h 41m
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
Platinum Heroes Events
10h 41m
BSL
15h 41m
RSL Revival
1d 5h
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
1d 7h
BSL
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.