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On April 14 2015 21:55 Inzan1ty wrote:
you clearly forgot what he has accomplished for STX, by single handedly winning them the pro league. The team was a big underdog at the time compared to SKT and KTF. I´d compare him with James Harden from Houston Rockets.
He won Code S last year as well, so you cant really argue that he was only successful in 2013.
Rain won the OSL which was just as prestigious as INnoVation's GSL (relative to the time when tournament was played and Rain also won the Hot6 cup (which had all the GSL champions and runner ups in 2013)
also, It still doesn't justify number 3 on the list. He can't be in front of MC and MMA, they have been around 2 years more than INnoVation and have changed matchups in more than one way, and they are still relevant.
Flash, INnoVation and Rain were the 3 winnest players for their teams in the proleague of 2012-2013, and Rain was the undisputed ACE for SKT last yearin 2014. INnoVation doesn't have as much success in PL as Rain does in total, since he is not even the ace for SKT now (cuz Dark.......)
Edit: I never said that he was only successful in 2013 btw, in his GSL run it was spectacular.....
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so basically most of ya´ll are saying lets just put the Top 10 of WoL and make it the official list. That just goes to prove that you´d agree that SC2 is on the decline, since HotS achievements seem less valueable than WoL titles. I´am not going that path however, players like INnovation, Zest, Rain, sOs as well as Soulkey deserve equal credit for what they have accomplished, and one can always argue that the competition at HotS became"tougher",when compared to the old days of NesTea, Mvp, MC etc...
Also as you can see I have put MC quite high on my list, because he has won the most prize money, a lot of it was by "farming " in Europe though, competition was often quite "comfortable" to put it mildly He is still one of the leading Protoss figures, and certainly the most entertaining one.
MMA was an astounishing player at Wings, but since I haven´t followed much of the 2nd half of HotS I can´t really rank him.
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1) MVP
2) MC
3) Life
4) Taeja
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So reason why MVP and his GomTvT wins are considered #1?
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On April 14 2015 23:42 Promised_pain wrote:
So reason why MVP and his GomTvT wins are considered #1?
Because no one can complain about imbalance?
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2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
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On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
So MKP is a nobody????
Although I agree with evything else you said.
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I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad.
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On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.
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On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad.
He literally passed the torch to Life back in 2012, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back then, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4
Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS.
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Bisutopia19231 Posts
On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS.
You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life.
edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt.
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 15 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS. You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life. edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt.
If Jaedong won just one final, GOAT would be NaDa.
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Bisutopia19231 Posts
On April 15 2015 01:24 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote:On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS. You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life. edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt. If Jaedong won just one final, GOAT would be NaDa.
Crazy how that works. If two definitely Jaedong though.
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10 Polt
9 Zest
8 Bomber
7 Nestea
6 Taeja
5 PartinG
4 Mma
3 MC
2 Life
1 MVP
EZ PZ
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On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th?
to see who fails the literacy test
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On April 15 2015 00:25 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era. So MKP is a nobody???? Although I agree with evything else you said.
Didn't you hear? MKP, Bomber, Polt, MMA, Parting, Nestea, Leenock, and MC are just nobodies that Mvp was competing alongside back in 2011-2012.
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a GOAT list needs stephano. I mean how many foreigners were/are destroyed that many koreans and won that many tournaments over such a long period of time?
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On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era. The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.
People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins.
He basically can take down anyone even in their prime and he isn't in top form himself.
He took down nestea, squirle (during protoss era) and almost took down life (during bl infestors) and innovation (hellbat tvt)
And he innovated the matchups, he made the stable mech 3cc opening and he was still innovating when u look at his builds against innovation and his raven thor mech (early hots tvz against swarmhost)
Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.
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I think it's gonna be, not in particular order: Mvp, MMA, Life, Parting, Innovation, Nestea, Taeja, MC, Polt and Zest.
Now trying in order:
1 Mvp
2 Life
3 Parting
4 MMA
5 MC
6 Zest
7 Polt
8 Innovation
9 Taeja
10 Nestea
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EPT
