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Poland3748 Posts
I noticed people find it entertaining to predict their top 10 for Stuchius list.
Well then - let's find out if we can figure out - as a community - the rest of the list:
Edit: Rain is missing, use "Someone else".
Poll: #10 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (18) 12% Dear (2) 1% herO (CJ herO) (12) 8% INnoVation (21) 14% Life (4) 3% MC (1) 1% MMA (4) 3% Mvp (8) 5% Nestea (8) 5% Parting (8) 5% Polt (8) 5% sOs (6) 4% Stephano (27) 18% Soulkey (5) 3% TaeJa (5) 3% Zest (9) 6% Someone else (7) 5% 153 total votes Your vote: #10 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #9 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (10) 10% Dear (0) 0% herO (CJ herO) (3) 3% INnoVation (7) 7% Life (0) 0% MC (2) 2% MMA (2) 2% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (8) 8% Parting (27) 28% Polt (3) 3% sOs (7) 7% Soulkey (4) 4% Stephano (6) 6% TaeJa (1) 1% Zest (11) 11% Someone else (5) 5% 98 total votes Your vote: #9 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #8 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (2) 2% Dear (1) 1% herO (CJ herO) (5) 5% INnoVation (22) 24% Life (1) 1% MC (2) 2% MMA (4) 4% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (4) 4% Parting (11) 12% Polt (9) 10% sOs (5) 5% Soulkey (3) 3% Stephano (3) 3% TaeJa (2) 2% Zest (11) 12% Someone else (6) 6% 93 total votes Your vote: #8 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #7 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (3) 3% Dear (0) 0% herO (CJ herO) (3) 3% INnoVation (21) 21% Life (1) 1% MC (5) 5% MMA (6) 6% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (14) 14% Parting (8) 8% Polt (9) 9% sOs (2) 2% Soulkey (4) 4% Stephano (3) 3% TaeJa (8) 8% Zest (8) 8% Someone else (2) 2% 99 total votes Your vote: #7 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #6 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (3) 3% Dear (1) 1% herO (CJ herO) (5) 5% INnoVation (4) 4% Life (2) 2% MC (5) 5% MMA (6) 6% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (13) 13% Parting (8) 8% Polt (27) 27% sOs (1) 1% Soulkey (1) 1% Stephano (4) 4% TaeJa (6) 6% Zest (9) 9% Someone else (3) 3% 100 total votes Your vote: #6 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #5 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (2) 2% Dear (0) 0% herO (CJ herO) (3) 3% INnoVation (2) 2% Life (3) 3% MC (7) 6% MMA (29) 25% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (27) 23% Parting (11) 9% Polt (6) 5% sOs (5) 4% Soulkey (0) 0% Stephano (4) 3% TaeJa (10) 9% Zest (3) 3% Someone else (2) 2% 116 total votes Your vote: #5 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #4 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (4) 3% Dear (0) 0% herO (CJ herO) (1) 1% INnoVation (4) 3% Life (3) 2% MC (32) 26% MMA (36) 29% Mvp (2) 2% Nestea (8) 7% Parting (3) 2% Polt (2) 2% sOs (1) 1% Soulkey (2) 2% Stephano (2) 2% TaeJa (20) 16% Zest (3) 2% Someone else (0) 0% 123 total votes Your vote: #4 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #3 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (2) 1% Dear (1) 1% herO (CJ herO) (2) 1% INnoVation (2) 1% Life (11) 8% MC (42) 30% MMA (7) 5% Mvp (6) 4% Nestea (6) 4% Parting (3) 2% Polt (2) 1% sOs (1) 1% Soulkey (0) 0% Stephano (4) 3% TaeJa (49) 35% Zest (4) 3% Someone else (0) 0% 142 total votes Your vote: #3 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #2 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (4) 3% Dear (0) 0% herO (CJ herO) (1) 1% INnoVation (0) 0% Life (89) 58% MC (10) 6% MMA (4) 3% Mvp (28) 18% Nestea (8) 5% Parting (2) 1% Polt (0) 0% sOs (2) 1% Soulkey (1) 1% Stephano (1) 1% TaeJa (4) 3% Zest (0) 0% Someone else (0) 0% 154 total votes Your vote: #2 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
Poll: #1 on stuchiu's GOATs list will beBomber (3) 2% Dear (1) 1% herO (CJ herO) (2) 1% INnoVation (0) 0% Life (34) 17% MC (0) 0% MMA (1) 1% Mvp (139) 71% Nestea (2) 1% Parting (3) 2% Polt (0) 0% sOs (2) 1% Soulkey (0) 0% Stephano (3) 2% TaeJa (4) 2% Zest (0) 0% Someone else (3) 2% 197 total votes Your vote: #1 on stuchiu's GOATs list will be (Vote): Bomber
(Vote): Dear
(Vote): herO (CJ herO)
(Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Life
(Vote): MC
(Vote): MMA
(Vote): Mvp
(Vote): Nestea
(Vote): Parting
(Vote): Polt
(Vote): sOs
(Vote): Soulkey
(Vote): Stephano
(Vote): TaeJa
(Vote): Zest
(Vote): Someone else
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Poland3748 Posts
I missed Rain in the lists :/
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i will be mad if hero joins the top 10 instead of parting
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Poland3748 Posts
Please vote Someone else if you want Rain somewhere. I think he will be top receiver of someone else's votes.
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 21:30 Paljas wrote:
i will be mad if hero joins the top 10 instead of parting
I don't see how herO > Parting so you're safe.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
hey it's a poll thread =/
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 21:38 opterown wrote:
hey it's a poll thread =/
Yes. I imagine that will mean the thread will be shut down? The polls will live on.
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how is soO not on this list?
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Poland3748 Posts
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United States97276 Posts
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th?
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th?
I guess because I missed that and I think he is in the running?
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On April 13 2015 22:05 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th? I guess because I missed that and I think he is in the running?
You fail the literacy test
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I don't see how PartinG, herO, Dear or Stephano can be in top 15, especially given that sOs is #16. I think in all cases, looking at which three of TaeJa, Soulkey, INnoVation, Bomber and Rain are in the top 10 is the priority. There isn't room for all of them.
Mvp, Life, MC, Nestea, Zest and Polt are too hard to leave out, in my opinion. Note that these aren't my top six, just that the first four's achievements are unmatched, Zest's 2014 was very special, and Polt's longevity and ability to clutch tournaments is tremendous.
You could argue that TaeJa can't be left out. However, I have this feeling that TaeJa's lack of Korean results will see him miss out entirely. Bomber, on the other hand, dominated "Korean" international events and has the same longevity as Polt, albeit without the same highs early on (Super Tournament > Code A, even if their runs were comparable).
Two out of INnoVation, Rain and Soulkey being top ten with the other missing out leads me to believe that I have screwed up somewhere. INnoVation was ahead on dominance, Soulkey on consistency. All three players played a very pure and mechanical style of their respective races. I wouldn't leave any of them out but I don't see who else drops out. Maybe Polt or Bomber has to go, in which case I would keep Bomber. However, I don't think Polt and Bomber lose out to Leenock.
INnoVation has to be in the ten. He has played - by far - the most amazing games of 2013+. By this I mean that he and his opponent have met in a clash of styles, mechanics and mentality more often than any other player. Just check the Best Games threads and it was all INnoVation.
Soulkey and Rain is a toss up. It is such a toss up that I almost think stuchiu will throw another curve ball, maybe dumping MC for Rain.
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On April 13 2015 22:54 metzninja wrote:
I don't see how PartinG, herO, Dear or Stephano can be in top 15, especially given that sOs is #16. I think in all cases, looking at which three of TaeJa, Soulkey, INnoVation, Bomber and Rain are in the top 10 is the priority. There isn't room for all of them.
Mvp, Life, MC, Nestea, Zest and Polt are too hard to leave out, in my opinion. Note that these aren't my top six, just that the first four's achievements are unmatched, Zest's 2014 was very special, and Polt's longevity and ability to clutch tournaments is tremendous.
You could argue that TaeJa can't be left out. However, I have this feeling that TaeJa's lack of Korean results will see him miss out entirely. Bomber, on the other hand, dominated "Korean" international events and has the same longevity as Polt, albeit without the same highs early on (Super Tournament > Code A, even if their runs were comparable).
Two out of INnoVation, Rain and Soulkey being top ten with the other missing out leads me to believe that I have screwed up somewhere. INnoVation was ahead on dominance, Soulkey on consistency. All three players played a very pure and mechanical style of their respective races. I wouldn't leave any of them out but I don't see who else drops out. Maybe Polt or Bomber has to go, in which case I would keep Bomber. However, I don't think Polt and Bomber lose out to Leenock.
INnoVation has to be in the ten. He has played - by far - the most amazing games of 2013+. By this I mean that he and his opponent have met in a clash of styles, mechanics and mentality more often than any other player. Just check the Best Games threads and it was all INnoVation.
Soulkey and Rain is a toss up. It is such a toss up that I almost think stuchiu will throw another curve ball, maybe dumping MC for Rain.
Parting Code S like 12-13 times in a row now? He's really really really good. Also he's been innovating new meta-changing strategies since early WoL.
8 min gateway rush vs terran, 3 Nexus 1 gate PvT, Soul Train, Mass Templar, Blink/Colossus
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 13 2015 22:54 metzninja wrote:
Mvp, Life, MC, Nestea, Zest and Polt are too hard to leave out, in my opinion. Note that these aren't my top six, just that the first four's achievements are unmatched, Zest's 2014 was very special, and Polt's longevity and ability to clutch tournaments is tremendous.
MMA matched MC and Nestea, more or less, I easily put MMA between MC and Nestea and I'm still not sure if he shouldn't be #3.
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MMA and MC have both achieved far more than nestea, if the cutoff was 2013 it would be a different story.
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I dont know.... Still trying to cheer for third place Taeja 
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th?
We need to test for literacy.
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On April 14 2015 00:19 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th? We need to test for literacy.
Will you be going by these votes?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On April 14 2015 00:23 OMGIMNestea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2015 00:19 stuchiu wrote:On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th? We need to test for literacy. Will you be going by these votes?
Wouldnt that make it a Top 15 most popular players in SC2 list instead?
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Russian Federation145 Posts
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 14 2015 00:19 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th? We need to test for literacy.
To be fair I was more interested in ordering than the exact reasoning for each of them but at the same time - fair enough.
Also - sOs is tied for 2nd as #9.
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On April 13 2015 23:23 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:54 metzninja wrote:
Mvp, Life, MC, Nestea, Zest and Polt are too hard to leave out, in my opinion. Note that these aren't my top six, just that the first four's achievements are unmatched, Zest's 2014 was very special, and Polt's longevity and ability to clutch tournaments is tremendous. MMA matched MC and Nestea, more or less, I easily put MMA between MC and Nestea and I'm still not sure if he shouldn't be #3.
Sorry I meant to include MMA, just had a brain fade. Completely agree
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Needs more FlaSh and less sOs.
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all i know is MVP #1 or riot XD
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Is Stuchio the one who would do nasty things for Life, or the one who despises him?
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The consensus is quite impressive to be honest.
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On April 14 2015 17:01 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Is Stuchio the one who would do nasty things for Life, or the one who despises him?
Neither...I think?
I believe that's Zealously and Lichter respectively.
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On April 14 2015 17:27 Maxilicious wrote:
The consensus is quite impressive to be honest.
Yep, look at that top 3!
Rooting for Stephano around #10 for bringing the foreign flag and being drama queen.
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How is stephano even on the list. lol
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Life, Mvp and INnovation best ever. Mvp didnt achieve much in HotS though, while Life won tons in both WoL and HotS
1) Life
2) Mvp
3) INnoVation
4) Bomber
5) TaeJa
6) MC
7) Zest
8) sOs
9) PartinG
10) Soulkey or NesTea
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On April 14 2015 20:07 Inzan1ty wrote:
Life, Mvp and INnovation best ever. Mvp didnt achieve much in HotS though, while Life won tons in both WoL and HotS
1) Life
2) Mvp
3) INnoVation
4) Bomber
5) TaeJa
6) MC
7) Zest
8) sOs
9) PartinG
10) Soulkey or NesTea
There is no way Mvp isnt number 1, he has been in 6 GSL finals and won 4 of them.
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when you match him with Life, yes he´ll find a way.
dont forget that Mvp is pretty much done with sc2, while Life will most likely continue his reign into LotV.
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On April 14 2015 20:47 Inzan1ty wrote:
when you match him with Life, yes he´ll find a way.
dont forget that Mvp is pretty much done with sc2, while Life will most likely continue his reign into LotV.
Mvp is still the one who has accomplished the biggest feats. Don't get me wrong, i love Life, but Mvp is undeniably the greatest player to play SC2 so far.
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Best poll thread ever  If you're gonna do something, do it all the way!
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But Life will under guarantee win far more things if he only half way through continues in LotV like he did in WoL (2nd half) and HotS. He just has that big edge of being far younger.
Life is Flash of SC2.
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On April 14 2015 21:08 Inzan1ty wrote:
But Life will under guarantee win far more things if he only half way through continues in LotV like he did in WoL (2nd half) and HotS. He just has that big edge of being far younger.
Life is Flash of SC2.
He will most likely do better yes, but at the moment Mvp is the greatest.
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Bisutopia19248 Posts
I see what's happening here. Stuchiu really doesn't know who and what order he should make his top 10 list. Now nimdil, his "lackey", is making a non-suspicious poll thread that will give Stuchiu everything he needs to either make an extremely accurate and peaceful GOAT list or an extremely controversial list to boost his rage meter. Well played sirs.
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On April 14 2015 20:07 Inzan1ty wrote:
Life, Mvp and INnovation best ever. Mvp didnt achieve much in HotS though, while Life won tons in both WoL and HotS
1) Life
2) Mvp
3) INnoVation
4) Bomber
5) TaeJa
6) MC
7) Zest
8) sOs
9) PartinG
10) Soulkey or NesTea
sOs shouldn't be on this list, if you READ (aparently that's lacking here cuz ppl are always saying sOs) the 1st part then you know that sOs is already there at 16#.
Also, Innovation????? Are you joking? he only won two tournaments and was irrelevant in the last half of 2013 (did he make the quaterfinals of any tournament apart from ASUS ROG which had like 6 koreans?) and also in the first few months of 2014 (ATC teamleagues doesn't count cuz MMA as more of a beast).
EVEN RAIN has more achievements (wins --> finals) than Innovation....... and Rain won't deserve third place, that spot is reserved for MC/MMA/Nestea
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you clearly forgot what he has accomplished for STX, by single handedly winning them the pro league. The team was a big underdog at the time compared to SKT and KTF. I´d compare him with James Harden from Houston Rockets.
He won Code S last year as well, so you cant really argue that he was only successful in 2013.
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On April 14 2015 21:55 Inzan1ty wrote:
you clearly forgot what he has accomplished for STX, by single handedly winning them the pro league. The team was a big underdog at the time compared to SKT and KTF. I´d compare him with James Harden from Houston Rockets.
He won Code S last year as well, so you cant really argue that he was only successful in 2013.
Rain won the OSL which was just as prestigious as INnoVation's GSL (relative to the time when tournament was played and Rain also won the Hot6 cup (which had all the GSL champions and runner ups in 2013)
also, It still doesn't justify number 3 on the list. He can't be in front of MC and MMA, they have been around 2 years more than INnoVation and have changed matchups in more than one way, and they are still relevant.
Flash, INnoVation and Rain were the 3 winnest players for their teams in the proleague of 2012-2013, and Rain was the undisputed ACE for SKT last yearin 2014. INnoVation doesn't have as much success in PL as Rain does in total, since he is not even the ace for SKT now (cuz Dark.......)
Edit: I never said that he was only successful in 2013 btw, in his GSL run it was spectacular.....
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so basically most of ya´ll are saying lets just put the Top 10 of WoL and make it the official list. That just goes to prove that you´d agree that SC2 is on the decline, since HotS achievements seem less valueable than WoL titles. I´am not going that path however, players like INnovation, Zest, Rain, sOs as well as Soulkey deserve equal credit for what they have accomplished, and one can always argue that the competition at HotS became"tougher",when compared to the old days of NesTea, Mvp, MC etc...
Also as you can see I have put MC quite high on my list, because he has won the most prize money, a lot of it was by "farming " in Europe though, competition was often quite "comfortable" to put it mildly He is still one of the leading Protoss figures, and certainly the most entertaining one.
MMA was an astounishing player at Wings, but since I haven´t followed much of the 2nd half of HotS I can´t really rank him.
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1) MVP
2) MC
3) Life
4) Taeja
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So reason why MVP and his GomTvT wins are considered #1?
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On April 14 2015 23:42 Promised_pain wrote:
So reason why MVP and his GomTvT wins are considered #1?
Because no one can complain about imbalance?
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635 Posts
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
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On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
So MKP is a nobody????
Although I agree with evything else you said.
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I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad.
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On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era.
The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.
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On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad.
He literally passed the torch to Life back in 2012, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back then, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4
Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS.
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Bisutopia19248 Posts
On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS.
You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life.
edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt.
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 15 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS. You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life. edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt.
If Jaedong won just one final, GOAT would be NaDa.
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Bisutopia19248 Posts
On April 15 2015 01:24 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 01:19 BisuDagger wrote:On April 15 2015 00:39 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 00:30 LemonyTang wrote:
I think Mvps WCS EU is pretty impressive too. I know it was against noobs, but the man walked the tournament, months after his final hurrah against Life. He should have won that IEM too. That tournament made me so sad. He literally passed the torch to Life, yet people didn´t realize. Life not only walked the royal road back in 2012, by defeating the old king, but he would also become the best player until end of Wings. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/376819-gsl-finals-recap-life-vs-mvp-season-4Now...he just won another Code S last month, which makes him one of, if not the most dominating player in HotS too, since he won a lot now in HotS. You guys talk about Life as a god at the end of WoL, but Leenock and DRG define WoL for me as Zerg players. Since HoTS life has performed extremely well. It does suck that MVP didn't succeed at all in HoTS, but he is also an older player and already had the fatigue of competing in high level Brood War. However, for anyone who watched WoL as religiously as I did, MVP really seemed unbeatable for many years. I think your best argument would his failure to dominate overseas. But at that point it comes to GSL(Best players in the world prepared events) Titles vs IEM/Dreamhacks/MLGs (Incredibly hard no preparation events). Both players also have a history of 3 years worth results. Give this one more year and another Premier win, the Life will become the GOAT. Right now its comparing Jaedong to Flash. Both dominated in their respective race. Had Jaedong one just one or two more of their finals matches he would be GOAT instead of Flash. It's that close between them and it's that close between MVP and Life. edit: If we threw out GSLs altogether, Taeja would be the most dominate overseas player followed by Polt. If Jaedong won just one final, GOAT would be NaDa.
Crazy how that works. If two definitely Jaedong though.
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10 Polt
9 Zest
8 Bomber
7 Nestea
6 Taeja
5 PartinG
4 Mma
3 MC
2 Life
1 MVP
EZ PZ
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On April 13 2015 22:02 Shellshock wrote:
why is sOs on any of these polls when it's already written in stuchiu's thread that sOs is 16th?
to see who fails the literacy test
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On April 15 2015 00:25 MiniFotToss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era. So MKP is a nobody???? Although I agree with evything else you said.
Didn't you hear? MKP, Bomber, Polt, MMA, Parting, Nestea, Leenock, and MC are just nobodies that Mvp was competing alongside back in 2011-2012.
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a GOAT list needs stephano. I mean how many foreigners were/are destroyed that many koreans and won that many tournaments over such a long period of time?
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On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era. The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt.
People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins.
He basically can take down anyone even in their prime and he isn't in top form himself.
He took down nestea, squirle (during protoss era) and almost took down life (during bl infestors) and innovation (hellbat tvt)
And he innovated the matchups, he made the stable mech 3cc opening and he was still innovating when u look at his builds against innovation and his raven thor mech (early hots tvz against swarmhost)
Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.
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I think it's gonna be, not in particular order: Mvp, MMA, Life, Parting, Innovation, Nestea, Taeja, MC, Polt and Zest.
Now trying in order:
1 Mvp
2 Life
3 Parting
4 MMA
5 MC
6 Zest
7 Polt
8 Innovation
9 Taeja
10 Nestea
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Poland3748 Posts
Rain > INnoVation imho. Also it's hard to justify Parting > MMA
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On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho.
yea.......no.
On April 15 2015 14:34 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 00:30 Promised_pain wrote:On April 15 2015 00:17 sibs wrote:
2014/2015 has to count more than 2010/2011.
We aren't talking about 20 years difference, it's just 2-4 years, people who were winning in 2010/2011 could still be winning right now if they could keep up with the very clear ramp up in competition difficulty, yes, most code S players are from the kespa transition, you look at who Mvp beat to win these GSL's and it's a list of nobodies.
Life is by far the GOAT, Mvp has the strongest claim to bonjua during gomTvT era. The truth has been spoken. But I have a feeling that MVP will be #1 even thought he doesn't deserve it. People just look at the number of GSL pins on his shirt. People undervalued mvp just by looking at the gsl pins. .... Life on the other hand never revolutionized a zerg matchup.
wahhaha...stopped reading here...oh too bad it was the last sentence LOL
Life certainly revolutionized ZvZ as well as ZvT, by his unique style that cant be copied. Better read what other Pros are saying about Life, instead coming up with your own random bulls****
+ Show Spoiler +Wolf:
You know, Life, he, he just, when we, we saw him he gave us the biggest smile, and I love that guy's attitude, just such, such enthusiasm for the game, loves to take all the risks, he is the wild card of ZeNEX by far.
Apollo:
He has the most stupidest builds I've ever seen. . . he's actually insane!
I would never ever ever say that Life's made a mistake...Life is so good at this matchup (referring to his ZvZ)
Acer_Scarlett':
Him and suho are my favourite zergs to watch because they don't play boring same thing every game unlike everybody else ^^ Only two people I go out of my way to watch all their gsl vods
CreatorPrime:
He just has such a free-form style, you never know what he's going to do. So his play differed a lot from my expectations.
MarineKing on facing Life in the Round of 8:
I have to play a Bo5 against the one player that I really didn't want to face.
He's even better at using his zerglings than DRG is. Also, he seems to playing his games with a very recent source of ambition so I don't feel confident that I'll win. I've seen him do tons of plays where he just presses his opponent in to a corner, so I'm going to work on pushing out of that corner.
Artosis:
The most badass killer i have met at this age.
MVPSniper:
You were highly praised along with Life around the same time.
My teammates state that Life is on another level when they watch his games. I also felt a lot of different things, so in order to change, I am going to work really hard.
You must have copied Life's style.
I think a lot of Zerg players probably have tried to copy Life's style. But the fact that everyone has their own style they adhere to still exists and it's also really hard to gain advantages with your lings like Life does. A lot of Zergs like to play greedy ever since the queen buff but Life is different.
FXOSirius:
I think he's really physically solid. He's a young player, but he's a player who's bursting with confidence and doesn't get intimidated as he just plays his plays, and I think that's why he get such positive results.
TSLRagnarok:
Life's style is something that he perfected on ladder. It's not something that anyone can easily emulate, and I think Terrans are losing because they are unable to respond to it. I think Life is an amazing player.
Life's style must have become a hot topic within the Zerg-heavy TSL.
It has. It's a style that can only be performed with Life's level of control and understanding of strategy. It's just a style involving simultaneous production of Zerglings and Drones, but it's not something that you can merely do after watching it. Because such a young player as Life made it to the Code S finals on his first try, I felt some irritation, too.
StarTaleParting:
Life's skill is really great now, and he's really young, and very confident, and has very strong combat ability.
StarTaleCurious:
Have you felt inspired by how well your teammate, Life, is doing?
I have, and I also think that his performance at such a young age is astounding. I'm learning a lot by being at Life's side, so I'm wondering whether I can't grow stronger by absorbing his style.
MVPDongraegu:
Many pros have said that they have tried to emulate Life's style but failed.
I've also tried it once, but my win rate wasn't as high as when I played normally, so I don't know. Because knowing more styles is always better, I want to practice it, but it will take a great amount of time to become as good at using it as Life is.
IMYoda:
Many KeSPA players have advanced to Code S this season. is there anyone whom you want to avoid?
In my view, KeSPA and eSF players are all the same type of gamer. With the exception of Mvp and Life, I don't think there are too many differences between them. Life has always been amazing, and I think that Mvp is a player on another level. People say that they are on a different class, and I can feel it.
TSLSymbol:
You played a very one sided match against Hack in the winners' round. Were your strategies separately planned?
As of late, I had been going for no gas strategies against Terrans. But then I saw Life and how he played so I decided to mimic him. I realized afterwards that that's something that only Life can pull off. So I decided to just kind of resemble my early game to his and then throw in my own style for the transitions. When you watch Life play, you realize that it's really difficult because you have to spend your larvas wisely trying to get the right amount of both lings and drones but Life is excellent at it. I tried it out and I saw that I end up playing poorly.
StarTaleHack:
I've set my goal for the semi finals so I can go to Las Vegas. I also tend to get a lot of thoughts that I won't ever be able to beat Zerg thanks to my practices against Life. Overcoming that kind of feeling is my second goal for this season.
IMNestea:
The biggest talk right now is about the GSL Season 4 champion Life. What do you think of him as a fellow Zerg player?
I knew Life was a good player. He seems to be finally in the spotlight. I was so surprised when I watched the finals. Something like, 'So Zerg can play like this'. When I watched DRG and Leenock's play, I just thought of them as being 'good', but Life is just amazing. He is different from the current Zerg style and it was something fresh. He showcased a play nobody else can show off. I expect good things from him.
You probably tried out his style at least once.
Yes. I tried it many times, but every time I tried I lost. (Laugh) This is a style he created through extensive practice. Whenever I try a ling run-by, I lose to a full-front assault at this timing, to the point of total devastation. He knows which time is to attack, when no army is at the opponent's base. Players facing Life get attacked at the most unusual timing that have never been faced before, so they get shaken up and lose. The most impressive thing he does is how many lings he makes. That doesn't mean his drone count is low at all. This makes the game flow seamlessly.
So what is your answer to his style?
Hmm... maybe if I was a little younger? (Laugh) If I was at Life's age, I could have tried something like that. I put much thoughts on it, and my answer is that it's impossible to imitate. His concept is totally different from mine. Many other Zerg players probably tried it themselves and came up with the same answer. They might try to mimic here and there, but it's not something the conventional Zerg can easily follow.
STBrain:
Back when you were in ZeNEX, did you grow your skills by practicing with Life?
Even back then, the skill difference between Life and myself was significant. The difference was so large that I was too embarrassed to ask him to play practice games with me.
Miya:
Recently, Life, a fellow Zerg, has won both the GSL and MLG. Was this an inspiration for you?
Life may be a Zerg player like me, but the differences in the way he plays made me wonder whether I'm playing Zerg properly. I've tried emulating Life's play style but failed. No matter how much effort I put in, it wasn't easy to follow his aggressive style, so I plan to stick to my own.
in your face.
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:yea.......no. in your face.
Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".
In any case - it's not obvious how to interpret these polls but some simple calculation with points and weights resulted in this:
Some poll interpretation
1. Mvp
2. Life
3. MC
4. TaeJa
5. MMA
6. NesTea
7. Parting
8. Polt
9. INnoVation
10. Zest
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"in your face" wasnt even directed to you 
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On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho. yea.......no. in your face. Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages".
Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era.
Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1.
Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there.
So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format.
So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.
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On April 15 2015 22:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2015 22:12 nimdil wrote:On April 15 2015 19:36 Inzan1ty wrote:On April 15 2015 17:53 nimdil wrote:
Rain > INnoVation imho. yea.......no. in your face. Really? OSL, Hot6ix Cup and WCS Asia vs GSL and WCS S1? Also while Bogus peaked icnredible and recently returned to top notch form, Rain was the very definition of S-class solid play for "ages". Both got a 2nd place from OSL and GSL respectively as well. Though Bogus' wins/placings were more difficult even relative to the era. Also, as I recall Rain got a seed into his first code S, threw it away the following season, then got sent to code B by Dream. Not long after he got ANOTHER seed for WCS season 1. Bogus on the other hand came out the gate rapidly from the Kespa switch going from code B to code S immediately and getting ro8+ from s5 2012 - s3 2013. He had one season where he fell to code B during the Terran massacre of early 2014 what with getting Zest and herO as code A opponents (forgivable). Thereafter, he came right back to code S and stayed there. So in both premiere accomplishments and consistency I give Bogus the edge. On a lesser note, he's also the best team league player ever and is pretty much solid in every type of format. So yeah, Bogus > Rain easily.
Rain and Innovation are both very good.
IMHO I think Rain and Innovation are more deserving of being on the GOAT list than Zest.
First of all, they actually changed their respective mirror matchups. Rain changed pvp, and Innovation changed tvt, while Zest simply improved based on Rain's pvp play while adding a bit of "risk" into his play.
Second of all, both of them were more consistent than Zest because they were both relevant since the beginning of the KeSPA transfer int oSC2 from BW, not only in one year, while Zest rose only because Toss was "OP" at the time.
Rain won against arguably the best Zerg at that time, DRG in OSL, and is still winning a lot, despite leaving KeSPA.
P.S. Both Rain and Innovation awere weaker since leaving KeSPA, (Rain to mYinsanity, Innovation to Acer).
Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final (Like Dear) in the span of two weeks, and they both rekt nerds in Proleague, and they were the undisputed aces of their teams WHILE HAVING A GOOD WINNING RECORD, unlike Zest this season (year).
so if anything Rain and Innovation should be on the list, not Zest.
Then we come to the argument of who is better, Rain or Innovation?
Rain was the first KeSPA player to be successful in individual tournaments, while Innovation was mostly dominant in the first few months of HOTS. However, Rain was consistent throughout HOTS but Innovation plummeted after leaving STX and joining team Acer, now that Innovation is back in KeSPA (SKT) he is becoming as "godlike" (not really). He suffered a slump, but that happens to all players, like the one Rain is going through now.
On the other hand, Rain won the Auction All-kill OSL and could've won GSL against arguably the best players in WOL, while Innovation almost won a GSL and a Season Final, but for Innovation he was that successful because he abused Hellbat TvT and widow mines in the other matchups and was 'better' than using widow mines than most except for Flash, and also when everyone was clueless about how the matchups worked because it was the start of HOTS, after a few months, ppl started to figure out HOTS more and guess what? Innovation is not as god like as he was, whereas Rain was still consistent.
So I think it is fair to say that [Rain > Innovation (Slightly)] > Zest.
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EPT
