|
On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails.
Well done HTOMario.
Anybody who doesn't see the total differnce between how HTOMario and Winter has reacted is a fool.
|
On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion
Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch".
Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S
Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only.
|
On March 17 2015 09:18 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. Well done HTOMario. Anybody who doesn't see the total differnce between how HTOMario and Winter has reacted is a fool.
The worst thing is that Mario doesn't really cares about that, he just likes to stream and hang out with his chat, it was really shitty what happened to him.
Also everybody can try and measure the chat in his stream (like they did with other streams), its very active even if there is only 200 viewers, and I can assure its not a chat bot (unless they invented a chat bot that makes really bad jokes  )
|
On March 17 2015 09:29 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:18 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. Well done HTOMario. Anybody who doesn't see the total differnce between how HTOMario and Winter has reacted is a fool. The worst thing is that Mario doesn't really cares about that, he just likes to stream and hang out with his chat, it was really shitty what happened to him. Also everybody can try and measure the chat in his stream (like they did with other streams), its very active even if there is only 200 viewers, and I can assure its not a chat bot (unless they invented a chat bot that makes really bad jokes )
sorry, skynet has been updated ^^
http://gawker.com/michael-j-fox-is-trending-thanks-to-an-army-of-bad-jok-1638609761
|
On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only.
Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off.
I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers?
|
On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers?
And that's the question i am asking ^^
If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ?
|
|
|
On March 17 2015 06:40 sSooG wrote:
i apologize in advance and i may get banned for this but I have to say it:
WINTER YOU F*****G PIECE OF S**T, I got permbanned from your chat when I asked a random guy in chat if he is a viewbot... Thank god that someone finally delivered evidence of something that was so fucking obvious since the first days... RIP Winter aka. most autistic-lying-viewbot-kiddo in the fucking universe
User was temp banned for this post.
Seek anger management help.
|
Winter stream was just so suspicious , coming out of nowhere and allways having more than 2000 viewers , fake apm counter(almost never under 300!), fake dog , fake viewers!!! 90 % of the stream consisting of smurfing and trolling low leaguers for his "educational" streams.
Im glad TL finally did something.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ?
A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted.
|
On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry bro, that's not the case.
People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over.
While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false.
With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy.
So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted.
So if Mario managed to reach the required numbers but still get viewbot and twitch doesnt respond to his issue, he can still be featured ? Can this situation impede his application to be featured ?
I know it's really hard to be a streamer with a decent viewership and being featured can help a lot. I felt bad for Mario because he's a good guy even if he's sometimes mean to yoshi. In this kind of situation, it's hard to not being able to do something against what's happening to you. If you know that the community will support you in this time, it's reassuring and will not demoralize thos who try to be streamer.
|
On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry bro, that's not the case.
People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over.
While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false.
With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy.
So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted.
Consulting twitch only leads to endless emails back and forth trying to figure out whether or not you're still getting botted. They have told me on many occasions that they are simply making it harder for bot vendors to bot channels which in turn makes the bots more expensive. This is the only thing that i've heard from twitch for the 4 years I have been broadcasting, and it's simply not an answer. So what does one do? Accept the fact that it happens, and let your viewers know when it's happening and carry on.
One of the things you guys needs to take into consideration is that as a broadcaster you can't always be touching on the possibilities of viewerbots, because the real viewers will start to get it into their mind that maybe this guy is just viewerbotting his channel and ultimately leave. Reverse psychology if you will.
|
thx TL for dealing with this lying kid.
I have to side with avilo on this one. Those who wield the sword of justice must take action.
I wish Nvidia's lawyers go after this kid and make him pay his sponsorship money back and that Rifkin is flown to the next HSC (just kidding lol).
unfortunately, he will probably smurf his way back on the streaming scene somehow. PleaseTL, next time dont wait so long to take the trash to the curb.Its your house, your rules. Its been months since TLers started asking questions in the monthly streamer numbers thread, only to be told to keep their mouths shut.
The community on this website knows what is a good stream and what is shit. This kid is a turd of a streamer; gameplay, gameknowledge, his fucking overlay, his gold smurfing ways, everything.... ( one of the best streams Ive seen in a long time was Destiny mimicking Winter's with a distorted picture, compulsively drinking from a disgusting bottle of water and thanking ppl all the time for their ''tier 1 subscription''. That was genius lol)
Anyways I wish we can leave this drama behind and that legit streamers get legit sponsors.
/rant
|
Do these changes also apply to streamers that stream Heroes of the Storm?
|
|
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On March 17 2015 11:32 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:
[quote]
The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted. So if Mario managed to reach the required numbers but still get viewbot and twitch doesnt respond to his issue, he can still be featured ? Can this situation impede his application to be featured ? I know it's really hard to be a streamer with a decent viewership and being featured can help a lot. I felt bad for Mario because he's a good guy even if he's sometimes mean to yoshi. In this kind of situation, it's hard to not being able to do something against what's happening to you. If you know that the community will support you in this time, it's reassuring and will not demoralize thos who try to be streamer.
If people continue to viewbot him it will be difficult to support his stream on TL. I hope that you can all understand that TL's stream list is just an aggregation of streams. We can't actually do anything about the viewbots ourselves, as much as we would like to. It's very unfortunate and I've talked to HTOMario at length about it. It's a difficult situation and I really hope Twitch does something about it, because they are the only ones that really can.
On March 17 2015 11:35 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:
[quote]
The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted. Consulting twitch only leads to endless emails back and forth trying to figure out whether or not you're still getting botted. They have told me on many occasions that they are simply making it harder for bot vendors to bot channels which in turn makes the bots more expensive. This is the only thing that i've heard from twitch for the 4 years I have been broadcasting, and it's simply not an answer. So what does one do? Accept the fact that it happens, and let your viewers know when it's happening and carry on. One of the things you guys needs to take into consideration is that as a broadcaster you can't always be touching on the possibilities of viewerbots, because the real viewers will start to get it into their mind that maybe this guy is just viewerbotting his channel and ultimately leave. Reverse psychology if you will.
It's a tough situation, yes. On the one hand, we don't want to support streams that are being botted because it encourages botters to continue. On the other hand, we don't want to harm innocent streamers by de-featuring them when they would otherwise deserve it. But doing nothing only perpetuates the problem. We'd like to believe that our stance against botting encourages Twitch to act with more immediacy, but only Twitch can find a solution to this. We do encourage streamers to inform us of their suspicions so that we act with more leniency regarding potential botting; they don't need to announce it to the world.
|
On March 17 2015 11:57 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 11:32 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:
[quote]
after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots....
Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted. So if Mario managed to reach the required numbers but still get viewbot and twitch doesnt respond to his issue, he can still be featured ? Can this situation impede his application to be featured ? I know it's really hard to be a streamer with a decent viewership and being featured can help a lot. I felt bad for Mario because he's a good guy even if he's sometimes mean to yoshi. In this kind of situation, it's hard to not being able to do something against what's happening to you. If you know that the community will support you in this time, it's reassuring and will not demoralize thos who try to be streamer. If people continue to viewbot him it will be difficult to support his stream on TL. I hope that you can all understand that TL's stream list is just an aggregation of streams. We can't actually do anything about the viewbots ourselves, as much as we would like to. It's very unfortunate and I've talked to HTOMario at length about it. It's a difficult situation and I really hope Twitch does something about it, because they are the only ones that really can. Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 11:35 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 10:40 lichter wrote:On March 17 2015 10:10 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 10:02 y0su wrote:On March 17 2015 09:22 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:11 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:
[quote]
after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots....
Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^ I guess you got your numbers from here https://viewbot.net/Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make... - obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that - I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at the same time - twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it... Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion Me too, i was surprised by how little(?) money it cost to obtain huge numbers at least for sc2 and that's why i am not really happy about the statement of TL which doesnt provide help for streamers whom may be viewbot maliciously which is basically "ask twitch". Why twitch will bother for a guy with 0.5k viewbots when they have several streams with 2-3k and maybe more ? :S Unfortunately, viewbotting is an issue that can be dealt by Twitch only. Well, just going by precedence... The two recent de-features were both streamers that became featured AFTER being botted. So, there is still no precedence on what would happen if an already featured streamer suddenly noticed that the viewer numbers are off. I still find the idea of "malicious viewbotting" hilariously stupid... Seriously, who do I have to piss off to get some extra viewers? And that's the question i am asking ^^ If your partnership application with twitch get suspended because of viewbotting like mario, will you still find it "hilariously stupid" ? A stream popular enough to be featured likely has no reason to risk his position or reputation with viewbots. If he does notice a suspicious amount of views or activity on his stream, it's in his best interest to immediately consult Twitch and raise a red flag. It's the same case as HTOMario, except someone like this already had the numbers to be featured. The only problem with HTOMario was that he didn't have the numbers to be featured prior to getting botted. Consulting twitch only leads to endless emails back and forth trying to figure out whether or not you're still getting botted. They have told me on many occasions that they are simply making it harder for bot vendors to bot channels which in turn makes the bots more expensive. This is the only thing that i've heard from twitch for the 4 years I have been broadcasting, and it's simply not an answer. So what does one do? Accept the fact that it happens, and let your viewers know when it's happening and carry on. One of the things you guys needs to take into consideration is that as a broadcaster you can't always be touching on the possibilities of viewerbots, because the real viewers will start to get it into their mind that maybe this guy is just viewerbotting his channel and ultimately leave. Reverse psychology if you will. It's a tough situation, yes. On the one hand, we don't want to support streams that are being botted because it encourages botters to continue. On the other hand, we don't want to harm innocent streamers by de-featuring them when they would otherwise deserve it. But doing nothing only perpetuates the problem. We'd like to believe that our stance against botting encourages Twitch to act with more immediacy, but only Twitch can find a solution to this. We do encourage streamers to inform us of their suspicions so that we act with more leniency regarding potential botting; they don't need to announce it to the world.
Even if mario manage to reach the required numbers without counting bots, he cant be featured ?
So if someone maliciously viewbot Nony(because he's streaming right now^^) or even Huk(same :p) for 3-4 months, what'll happen to him ? defeatured ? can you damaged the visibility of a sc2 streamer for 20$ ?
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
We're observer Mario's stream for a bit to make sure the bots are gone and he reaches the requirement without the benefit of being featured for a while. Then we will refeature him.
For streamers who are already featured or are already popular, there is no reason to viewbot. They already have the numbers, and as long as they coordinate with twitch to get rid of the bots and don't have suspicion of viewbotting themselves, they won't be defeatured.
|
On March 17 2015 12:31 lichter wrote:
We're observer Mario's stream for a bit to make sure the bots are gone and he reaches the requirement without the benefit of being featured for a while. Then we will refeature him.
For streamers who are already featured or are already popular, there is no reason to viewbot. They already have the numbers, and as long as they coordinate with twitch to get rid of the bots and don't have suspicion of viewbotting themselves, they won't be defeatured.
Thank you for this reassuring answer and for this explanation on how to deal with this issue.
|
TL has standards they need to live up to, so they should uphold their standards by NOT featuring Winter. As they stated this is not beneficial to the community and only encourages and promotes this sort of negative behavior. Congrats, TL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
