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Canada11363 Posts
On March 17 2015 07:12 Taidanii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 04:04 Falling wrote:On March 16 2015 23:50 Cazimirbzh wrote:i see pple donate 500 €/$ to streamer and sometimes more so i dont understand why it's difficult to imagine someone pay for good or bad reasons to viewbot 9/11 was not an inside job, . Be careful there. Most experts that looked at that evidence believed those buildings were demolition due to the left over "molten metal" only capable of being created by thermite at the support beams of the building. I just wanted to clarify this. Not another word on it, I promise
Good. Or I will ban you for propagating conspiracy theories.
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On March 17 2015 07:45 kryogenic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:33 Taidanii wrote:On March 17 2015 07:31 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. what makes you think that your coming forward is any different from winter's claim that he "didn't know" about his viewbots? Because Mario "coming forward" happened within a 2 hour time frame and Winter's "didnt know" explanation was simply perpetuated over the span of TWO ****ING YEARS dude. What kind of question is this? 2 hours after actual evidence was presented against him. how does this suggest in any way that he is innocent?
The same evidence that was presented to him was presented to Winter last year. People first reported to Winter that some of his viewers were fishy (ie weird twitch channel with only 1 channel followed/no description etc) last year and Winter claimed he was innocent and didnt know. The difference between Winter and HTOmario is that HTOmario came out right away and said his stream was fishy, while Winter denied it for an entire year or so. Even after extensive research done on Reddit, Winter still claimed ignorance (on reddit post), so yeah that's the difference. Im not saying he's guilty or innocent, but HTOmario so far seem to have done a lot more to prove that he didn't know compared to Winter. Because let's be serious here, 3AM NA time with Jaedong streaming and GSL on yet Winter still get 2-3k views.. yeah, not fishy at all. Also, have Winter commented on the situation yet or did he high tail out of it?
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On March 17 2015 07:49 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:12 Taidanii wrote:On March 17 2015 04:04 Falling wrote:On March 16 2015 23:50 Cazimirbzh wrote:i see pple donate 500 €/$ to streamer and sometimes more so i dont understand why it's difficult to imagine someone pay for good or bad reasons to viewbot 9/11 was not an inside job, . Be careful there. Most experts that looked at that evidence believed those buildings were demolition due to the left over "molten metal" only capable of being created by thermite at the support beams of the building. I just wanted to clarify this. Not another word on it, I promise Good. Or I will ban you for propagating conspiracy theories.
Frankly, I think you should permanently ban me. IP ban me, if you have that capability.
However, you need to understand the difference between "conspiracy theory" and "scientific evidence". I have no care in the world if some crusader wishes to ban me for refusing to take in knowledge.
It would have been more professional for you to say "lol" than to flex your "ban hammer". **** off
User was banned for this post.
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On March 17 2015 07:53 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:45 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 07:33 Taidanii wrote:On March 17 2015 07:31 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. what makes you think that your coming forward is any different from winter's claim that he "didn't know" about his viewbots? Because Mario "coming forward" happened within a 2 hour time frame and Winter's "didnt know" explanation was simply perpetuated over the span of TWO ****ING YEARS dude. What kind of question is this? 2 hours after actual evidence was presented against him. how does this suggest in any way that he is innocent? The same evidence that was presented to him was presented to Winter last year. People first reported to Winter that some of his viewers were fishy (ie weird twitch channel with only 1 channel followed/no description etc) last year and Winter claimed he was innocent and didnt know. The difference between Winter and HTOmario is that HTOmario came out right away and said his stream was fishy, while Winter denied it for an entire year or so. It wasn't until extensive research on reddit proving that he viewbot that he was finally defeatured, before then he made no attempt to stop the viewbotting/viewbotters. Also, have Winter commented on the situation yet or did he high tailed out of it?
Am I wrong in saying that I thought I wasn't even on the list for their view bots thread on reddit? I didn't get my information from me being botted from there, I got it from twitch when asking for a partnership. It wasn't even knowledge to me let alone public until I made it so within a few hours of learning about it.
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On March 17 2015 07:57 HTOMario wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:53 phodacbiet wrote:On March 17 2015 07:45 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 07:33 Taidanii wrote:On March 17 2015 07:31 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. what makes you think that your coming forward is any different from winter's claim that he "didn't know" about his viewbots? Because Mario "coming forward" happened within a 2 hour time frame and Winter's "didnt know" explanation was simply perpetuated over the span of TWO ****ING YEARS dude. What kind of question is this? 2 hours after actual evidence was presented against him. how does this suggest in any way that he is innocent? The same evidence that was presented to him was presented to Winter last year. People first reported to Winter that some of his viewers were fishy (ie weird twitch channel with only 1 channel followed/no description etc) last year and Winter claimed he was innocent and didnt know. The difference between Winter and HTOmario is that HTOmario came out right away and said his stream was fishy, while Winter denied it for an entire year or so. It wasn't until extensive research on reddit proving that he viewbot that he was finally defeatured, before then he made no attempt to stop the viewbotting/viewbotters. Also, have Winter commented on the situation yet or did he high tailed out of it? Am I wrong in saying that I thought I wasn't even on the list for their view bots thread on reddit? I didn't get my information from me being botted from there, I got it from twitch when asking for a partnership. It wasn't even knowledge to me let alone public until I made it so within a few hours of learning about it.
Exactly, extensive research wasn't done on you and you came out right away before the public knew about it, which is the difference between you and Winter. I honestly didn't even know you had view bot issues, but Winter has been accused numerous times by the community over the span of last year, but nobody had solid proof other than his viewers were off + dead chat + high view count.
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fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page
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On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page
I'm sorry bro, that's not the case.
People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over.
While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false.
With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy.
So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation.
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On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation.
If somebody maliciously viewbot attacks than it is not streamer's problem but Twich as long as streamer informs it. If Twich will remain ignorant than eventually it will lose credibility as a streaming platform.
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On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails.
Do you have any news of Twitch in order to "clear up the viewbotting issue [..], and to try to find a way to eradicate (your) stream of bots." ?? How many time do you think it'll take to have your stream "cleared by Twitch" ?
I didn't viewbot.
but you're still the "benefactor " :p
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On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation.
The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots.
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On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots.
are those numbers something you can substantiate? i am very curious about the cost.
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On March 17 2015 08:33 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. Do you have any news of Twitch in order to "clear up the viewbotting issue [..], and to try to find a way to eradicate (your) stream of bots." ?? How many time do you think it'll take to have your stream "cleared by Twitch" ? but you're still the "benefactor " :p
As far as you doing something about this, we hope to attack this as an engineering effort, as there is not a lot you can do yourself to combat this.
This is what I got.
After asking if they could at least tell me how many were viewbots and what viewership is real they gave me this.
Sorry, this is not information that we disclose. If anything, you seem to have a very large amount of fraudulent viewers and until these clear up we won’t be able to review any partnership applications from your account.
So the only way to clear my name is to keep messaging them now and then to see if it has stopped. I have no knowledge of this stuff or how it works so I'm pretty reliant on either them giving me a way to prove I'm not doing it or wait until it's 100% stopped.
After tweeting about it someone did come forward and stated they've been giving me 300 viewers on a monthly thing since february. It's my understanding that it was a fan trying to help, as he stated so and stopped doing it. (hence the viewer drop). I would link the tweet but I'm going with the belief that he was just trying to help and don't want him spammed with negativity. However both twitch and teamliquid have the tweet information with all the details I have.
As for "benefactor" I don't want things handed to me that I didn't work for. That's why I notified teamliquid, I didn't earn it based on their guidelines.
Honestly I don't know how to approach this so right now I'm just trying to keep positive and to my schedule until twitch can give me something to do or responds with more information.
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On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots.
after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots....
On March 17 2015 08:49 HTOMario wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:33 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 07:22 HTOMario wrote:
To the people commentating on me, I didn't viewbot. The moment I found out it was happening I went straight to teamliquid (within the hour I believe) because I didn't want to be featured on false pretenses. If I was a view botter I could have just not brought it up and reaped the viewership.
On another note, if someone has a way to prove my innocence that would be awesome. Twitch takes a long time to respond to emails. Do you have any news of Twitch in order to "clear up the viewbotting issue [..], and to try to find a way to eradicate (your) stream of bots." ?? How many time do you think it'll take to have your stream "cleared by Twitch" ? I didn't viewbot. but you're still the "benefactor " :p Show nested quote +As far as you doing something about this, we hope to attack this as an engineering effort, as there is not a lot you can do yourself to combat this. This is what I got. After asking if they could at least tell me how many were viewbots and what viewership is real they gave me this. Show nested quote +Sorry, this is not information that we disclose. If anything, you seem to have a very large amount of fraudulent viewers and until these clear up we won’t be able to review any partnership applications from your account. So the only way to clear my name is to keep messaging them now and then to see if it has stopped. I have no knowledge of this stuff or how it works so I'm pretty reliant on either them giving me a way to prove I'm not doing it or wait until it's 100% stopped. TL:DR shit out of luck. As for "benefactor" I don't want things handed to me that I didn't work for. That's why I notified teamliquid, I didn't earn it based on their guidelines. Honestly I don't know how to approach this so right now I'm just trying to keep positive and to my schedule until twitch can give me something to do or responds with more information.
Good spirit, you still need a bit more viewers so i dont need to search for you in the nonfeatured stream :p
I dont know anything that could help you resolve this situation and i hope twitch will provide the help they're supposed to give
edit : ps: you can perhaps ask here for more help https://twitter.com/botdetectorbot.
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Sweet, now Avilo got viewbot attack with sudden rise from normal 700 to 1250 (at the time of writing).
EDIT: and suddenly exactly 200 gone.
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On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots....
Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that...
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive.
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This is what I have done over the years, when it comes to viewerbots. As a broadcaster you know after awhile what your actual legit viewer count is.
So for me, I range anywhere from 2-500 viewers on average. When that number starts to get higher, and I have not been featured on the front page of twitch, I simply tell my crowd that it is going on a turn the chat subscriber-only mode. Typically the viewer bots fall off after awhile and the number normalizes.
Unfortunately there is nothing you, I, or twitch can do about someone viewerbotting your channel. Until Twitch comes up with some kind of solution to effectively deal with them, partnerships will be a very hard thing to get, and everything else for that matter.
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On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive.
Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it...
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On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive.
Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say)
for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^
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On March 17 2015 09:08 Cazimirbzh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 09:00 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:49 Cazimirbzh wrote:On March 17 2015 08:40 kryogenic wrote:On March 17 2015 08:22 ProTech wrote:On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
fair enough. i thought you were in that reddit thread HTOMario
edit: I maintain that the "i didn't know i was viewbotted" excuse is bullshit in 99% of cases, see my post on the previous page I'm sorry bro, that's not the case. People maliciously view bot other peoples channel for the sole purpose of ruining that persons name. It not expensive to viewer bot someones channel, and furthermore if a troll does not like that particular streamer he will go completely out of his way to screw him over. While yes, I do believe that in a lot of cases people do in fact use that as an excuse saying something like " 99% of people use this as an excuse " is completely false. With this entire shit storm, you can bet your ass that this viewer bot thing in the community is going to be viral and targeted against featured streams on TL.net based on the new policy. So even if that 99% number were true, it's definitely going to get lower just based on this entire situation. The cost of viewbotting depends on the length of time. In winter's case it would have cost probably close to ten thousand dollars over the course of his 1-2 years of streaming with bots. after a quick search, for 10k $ - 2 years (415/monthly) winter can have 40k viewbots.... Assuming you came up with a link from google it should be no problem for you to source that... Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Do you want me to post a link to a website that explicitly sells viewbot ? XDD (last word + .net, that's all i'll say) for 100$/month i can pretend to be winter with 2.5k viewers and chatbot^^
I guess you got your numbers from here
Assuming that website is legit (i really hope not), I have a number of statements to make...
- obviously I'm wayy off on my earlier estimate. my apologies for that
- I would guess that those people are able to provide the service at a reduced cost by using the same twitch accounts, servers, and IPs to raise the viewer count of what is probably dozens of streamers at once
- twitch.tv you guys have some fucking 'splaining to do...
On March 17 2015 09:07 saltis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 08:08 kryogenic wrote:
Regardless, bandwidth, twitch accounts, and unique IPs cost money. The cost also increases as you scale up. I'm not saying that I know with any certainty that the number is close to $10k. I do know however that producing hundreds of views requires multiple servers, or, (more likely in my opinion) dozens of hacked computers with distinct IP addresses. That shit gets us into DDoS and blackhat territory and believe me it is very expensive. Dude please... all you say is theory crafting, it shows that you really have no real engineering knowledge. Please, don't even try it...
Please stfu if you're not going to add anything to the discussion
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EPT
