On March 10 2015 17:17 d00p wrote: Minecraft was developed in Sweden right? And DH is a Swedish organisation? Still doesn't make any sense though.
What doesn't make sense? SC2 didn't fit the budget, it wasn't worth to run and so they decided to do something different. It's literally how event business works, it isn't charity.
The best thing to come out of this is the showcase of how utterly ungrateful and unintelligent the SC2 fans are. Dreamhack have already stated that SC2 is in the backseat for 2015 and when it isn't there for a stop people go berserk and call Dreamhack out for it.
After this thread I can just hope there won't ever be any more SC2 at Dreamhack at all.
It kind of makes sense. When I look the stream viewers and the BW streams have like over 3000 people watching and the top SC2 players have like 400, one has to wonder if SC2 is in reality a boring game. I know I think it's boring after only a year of watching and playing it. Yet I still watch BW games after 15 years of being some form of fan of it.
Last year there have been 2 Dreamhack events in Bucharest. One with SC2, which I attended, and another one without, which I passed.
However, the report on Dreamhack 2015 indicates that the second event was higher in attendance.
I don't think Minecraft is in place of SC2, in terms of logistics and investment needed it is no way near. Minecraft is there as a side game. SC2 was phased our by LOL, Dota2, Heartstone, CS:GO.... .
This is what happens when DH stops trying to make things cool and invest in viewership (since Ohlen got backstabbed/sacked) and just settles for the flavor of the season waiting for the cash to flow(anyone remembers when CS views were down a lot? guess what, same happens with SC2 atm).
Hopefully things will shape up with LotV and we`ll get some SC2 back here.
On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously
Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past.
Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game.
The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass.
Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self.
Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
There is no reason to think that at all imo.
Compare BW and CS 1.6 relative success and SC2 and CS:GO's relative success. CS:GO is basically the same game as 1.6 while sc2 is completely different. While CS is stil massively popular, starcraft is now a pretty marginal game. What does this tell us? I'd say it is a sign that the market (or the gamers preferences) hasn't changed much.
I don't follow this closely, but with the rising popularity of the BW streams and tournaments it looks like the old game could maybe even become more popular than SC2 again - that also should indicate that there is more problems with the game than the genre. We just need a better game.
On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously
Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past.
Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game.
The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass.
Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self.
Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
There is no reason to think that at all imo.
Compare BW and CS 1.6 relative success and SC2 and CS:GO's relative success. CS:GO is basically the same game as 1.6 while sc2 is completely different. While CS is stil massively popular, starcraft is now a pretty marginal game. What does this tell us? I'd say it is a sign that the market (or the gamers preferences) hasn't changed much.
I don't follow this closely, but with the rising popularity of the BW streams and tournaments it looks like the old game could maybe even become more popular than SC2 again - that also should indicate that there is more problems with the game than the genre. We just need a better game.
BW stream numbers are good, but aren't most of those views in Korea where it was absolutely huge? If BW was seeing a large migration of people outside of Korea I'd concede the point. I do personally think BW is a better eSport to watch mind.
On March 10 2015 17:17 d00p wrote: Minecraft was developed in Sweden right? And DH is a Swedish organisation? Still doesn't make any sense though.
What doesn't make sense? SC2 didn't fit the budget, it wasn't worth to run and so they decided to do something different. It's literally how event business works, it isn't charity.
The best thing to come out of this is the showcase of how utterly ungrateful and unintelligent the SC2 fans are. Dreamhack have already stated that SC2 is in the backseat for 2015 and when it isn't there for a stop people go berserk and call Dreamhack out for it.
After this thread I can just hope there won't ever be any more SC2 at Dreamhack at all.
What is showcased? A 15 page thread on teamliquid? Grow up.
On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously
Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past.
Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game.
The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass.
Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self.
Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
There is no reason to think that at all imo.
Compare BW and CS 1.6 relative success and SC2 and CS:GO's relative success. CS:GO is basically the same game as 1.6 while sc2 is completely different. While CS is stil massively popular, starcraft is now a pretty marginal game. What does this tell us? I'd say it is a sign that the market (or the gamers preferences) hasn't changed much.
I don't follow this closely, but with the rising popularity of the BW streams and tournaments it looks like the old game could maybe even become more popular than SC2 again - that also should indicate that there is more problems with the game than the genre. We just need a better game.
BW stream numbers are good, but aren't most of those views in Korea where it was absolutely huge? If BW was seeing a large migration of people outside of Korea I'd concede the point. I do personally think BW is a better eSport to watch mind.
Agreed. Surprised there has not been any developers in Korea come out with some RTS titles as of yet. They seem to only produce MMO's sadly..
On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously
Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past.
Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game.
The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass.
Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self.
Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
You can't make that statement. Gaming culture and technology was totally different in the 90s and 2000s. There wouldn't be any MoBa without RTS, online-gaming was tiny back then and free to play was not a trend and accepted as a business model. Time is not reversible and not exchangable as it is interconntected. That's like saying, if Carthago had tanks back in the days, there would never have been a Roman Empire. lol.
On a different note, of course SC2 could have been improved and updated to today's gaming culture. It should have been released in the first place as free-to-play game, heavily team-play-centered and with more room for creativity and less room for cheese and early-game boringness. But again, it wasn't, time is not reversible and we are here, with SC2 tourneys dwindeling.
well it was my least favorite dh anyways, as long as sweden keeps it its fine, its not like we see not enough sc2 ^^ wcs is fine with LotV everything will get a boost again
On March 10 2015 01:53 SharkStarcraft wrote: WOW MINECRAFT REALLY rip esports seriously
Blizzard killed eSports, with a SC2 that has not enough quality, how it should be, how SC and WC3 had in the past.
Well, it's not just Blizzard who is messing it up. I agree, there is lots of room for improvement. Just look at all eSports functions and features that have been added in Dota2 and lately CS:GO. One can tranform lots of those into SC2 to make it a better game.
The one thing which is really worrying me is that the young generation of players seem to like easy-to-learn casual games. Games like Call of Duty, League of Legends, Hearthstone or the newest in the line Heroes of the Storm are the most popular. I grew up with SC:BW and I still love it, but nowadays it seems that most people (= the mass market) don't like stressful games where you have to think and control lots of stuff at the same time. LotV won't save "eSports" or the RTS genre, it just lacks a lot of attention. It doesn't make RTS attractive for the mass.
Dreamhack now kicking out SC2 makes me really sad. It reminds me of the World Cyber Games (WCG), once the best international tourney for SC:BW which has evolved to a shadow of it's old self.
Exactly. Its nothing to do with Blizzard design decisions, if in 98 BW came out and LoL came out there would be no talk about BW and probably no SC2 at all. Even if Blizzard imported every BW fan boy suggestion, the game would have lost out out to MOBAs anyway. Its just unfortunate that fans dont enjoy RTS as a genre anymore and prefer MOBAs -- I personally dont understand their popularity or the popularity of cardstone but I am capable of accepting the sheer numbers you see for streamed games.
You can't make that statement. Gaming culture and technology was totally different in the 90s and 2000s. There wouldn't be any MoBa without RTS, online-gaming was tiny back then and free to play was not a trend and accepted as a business model. Time is not reversible and not exchangable as it is interconntected. That's like saying, if Carthago had tanks back in the days, there would never have been a Roman Empire. lol.
On a different note, of course SC2 could have been improved and updated to today's gaming culture. It should have been released in the first place as free-to-play game, heavily team-play-centered and with more room for creativity and less room for cheese and early-game boringness. But again, it wasn't, time is not reversible and we are here, with SC2 tourneys dwindeling.
but then it would not be sc2 ^^ sc2 is NOT a team game, damn i hate team games xD
People have very selective memories. SC2 used to be huge, SC2 was one of the first games that gained traction on platforms like Twitch, SC2 paved the way for the much more accessible eSports scene we now see.
The likes of LoL and to a lesser extent CS:GO owe a lot to the trail that SC2 blazed.
Blizzard could be more on the ball in certain respects, but they can't just piss away more and more money to maintain SC2 as an eSport.
DH Bucharest is non SC2 event, there are 2xDH in Romania, and only 1 has SC2 in it. This year will be the one from Cluj. soooooooo DH Cluj will host the SC2 event. Last year was the same, 2 DH events in Romania and only one had SC2 in it.
Wow, after reading this I just decided, I never want to have to do anything with DH again, neither go there, nor watch the stream. I was away some time, so I didnt't know this. I take everything back when defending DH in this thread.
EPT
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