EPTWCS Premier Players Cannot Be Considered Good - Page 5
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
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WonnaPlay
Netherlands912 Posts
However, this is not the case because we know that these teams would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against teams wielding the european(?) flag. In Korea, there are alot of "good", "outstanding or "amazing" CS:GO teams. However, this is not the case because we know that these teams would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against teams wielding the Swedish flag. In Europe, there are alot of "good", "outstanding or "amazing" ice hockey teams. However, this is not the case because we know that these teams would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against teams wielding the American or Canadian flag. In Africa, there are alot of "good", "outstanding or "amazing" drug cartels. However, this is not the case because we know that these cartels would most likely not have the same success if they had to compete against cartels wielding the Mexican flag. Eventhough Thorin may be right. The argument is baseless and useless. Since you can put this theory on any sport, any genre, any country. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 20 2015 18:40 Zealously wrote: Implying that the players in Europe and America "aren't good" is absolutely silly. They are not the best in the world, but the top echelon of players outside Korea have shown that they can on occasion compete with low- to middle-tier Korean players, and even disregarding that you need to consider that they are in the top .1% of players globally. You could chalk individual wins against Korean players up to variance, but variance only gets you so far - you need to be good to have a chance. You can apply individual standards as to what "top-tier" means, but if you want to make the argument that only <50 players in the world are "good", you may be a bit elitist. It depends on the scale. If you consider all master players and above, TLO is astonishing. If you take all the pro players, TLO is good. If you take all the good players, TLO is OK, bellow average. If you take top50, TLO may not be there. And I am not saying TLO is bad player, he's one of the best in Europe. Taking Thoorin's measurement, he's elite player in Europe, probably top5, top10 for sure. But is he top50 all over the world? Maybe? And this is what is this all about. Good is just bad scaling word. If TLO is good, what is Snute? What is Solar? What is soO? What is Life? I mean, how do you want to scale it, TLO is good, Snute is better, Solar is better-than-Snute but worse-than-soO and soO is better-than-Snute but a-little-bit-worse-than-Life(nowadays) and Life is the best? Using good for all the players removes measurement, that's how I understand it. And I am not saying any pro player is bad player. TLO is one of my favorite players there with Catz. But when their material is played by soO who is superior player, OH MY GOD! It's just better  And I am telling this even though one of my best PvZ games to watch is Catz winning with airtoss playing as Zerg  | ||
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Nightwishone
Italy391 Posts
Of course they would not win gsl if they were to comete in korea, but saying they are good, awesome, great players doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best players, the TaeJa and Life who win dozen of tournaments. | ||
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
But the foreigner scene needs to be supported to have an alive game. I prefer the korean scene and I don't miss anything about it, but lot of people prefer to watch entertaining tournaments instead of competitive tournaments. If you think that Americans call a corean "Captain America" you can easly think how good are the foreigners LOL | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 20 2015 12:28 Nebuchad wrote: Before you continue this conversation, I feel the need to inform you that you are talking to someone who has argued that you wouldn't see the difference between a game of Rain and a game of a GM NA player if you didn't see the name of the player anywhere. The NA GM superior tools should give him an edge reaction wise since he doesn't need to scout to know what's going on | ||
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
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Undead1993
Germany17651 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The whole topic doesn't lead into anything imo, and like some others I am quite surprised that this thread is still open, could become very toxic very fast. | ||
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TTBest
Germany74 Posts
I personally prefer this WCS 2015 system a lot more than the system of last year. It's a good balance between the 2012 and 2013/2014 system. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 20 2015 14:31 OtherWorld wrote: 2011 => "The competition thus far has been a farce" has been proven wrong many times again and again. 2015 => "WCS Premier players cannot be considered good" will be proven wrong many times again and again. ForGG, Hydra, Polt and Snute are legit (and I hope it the top 4, the level would be pretty cool + Snute could go all the way which would be an awesome storyline and a well deserved win). Naniwa has proven that he has what he takes to compete against the best. For the rest... they'll get stomp by any Code S player as usual. The sad part is they fucked up the EU ladder which is insanely weaker than last year since we lost a ton of good koreans... | ||
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CamoPillbox
Czech Republic229 Posts
i dont know to who he is i bet some american guy who want make splash by his insignificant ideas and making thread about something everybody know .... | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 20 2015 19:51 CamoPillbox wrote: i dont know to who he is i bet some american guy who want make splash by his insignificant ideas and making thread about something everybody know .... Or probably the guy that makes the best in depth interview and releases some great content on a regular basis. It's funny to note that the ESL bring an organisation level appropriated for the level of play displayed. They're supply blocked too :D | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 20 2015 12:22 Circumstance wrote: If you get to contend for a place in a league considered the gold standard of the world because of where you were born and where you live, getting a chance to achieve your full potential due to that while the few full-time foreigners have to work twice as hard to make half the progress, then no, "Korean Pros Cannot Be Considered Hard-Working". Saying that foreign pros work harder than Korean pros and that Korean pros don't work actually work is downright disrespectful to Korean pros... | ||
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On February 20 2015 20:12 OtherWorld wrote: Saying that foreign pros work harder than Korean pros and that Korean pros don't work actually work is downright disrespectful to Korean pros... NA pro work so hard you know, that's why they'll crowd the WCS ro16! | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On February 20 2015 20:14 sAsImre wrote: NA pro work so hard you know, that's why they'll crowd the WCS ro16! Gotta train up dem sick Twitter skills | ||
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
Its so simple. Its a matter of relativity. One huge downside of the internet in general is, that everything is always compared with the entire world. When i went to LANs in the pre-2000 there was a guy who figured out on his own that Reaver drops are super good. He won like every local event for 2 years and i thought this guy was the tits. Everyone i knew would call him an "awesome" broodwar player. Of course he would have been trash compared to boxer or whatever, but back then no one knew. Who cares if its a game between scrub-A and scrub-B. As long as the match has me on the edge of my seat, hell yeah i call it an awesome match. What a pointless discussion... | ||
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