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your Country52797 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17253853/new-ladder-maps-for-2015-season-1-12-18-2014
With 2015 right around the corner, we thought it would be a good time to reveal the new maps that will be coming to the ladder and to let you know that these maps are now available for play in the Custom Games section! For now, we only have the 1v1 maps for you, but will soon be adding team maps to this blog. So, let’s get started!
1v1 Removals
King Sejong Station
Overgrowth
Merry go round
Nimbus
To replace these four removals, we’ll be adding in four new maps maps, some of which we’ve made here at Blizzard, and others which we’ve pulled in from top community contributors. As always, we’re looking for a good mix of balanced maps, maps that slightly favor a certain side in a given matchup, as well as maps that play differently compared to what we’re used to seeing. Here are the new maps for the next season. Please check them out not only in this blog post but also in game!
1v1 Additions
Expedition Lost
Map created by algue. One strong feature in this map is the choice it presents in taking a third base. One option is easy to access but far away and very open. The other third base is closer, but has requires that you break the rocks in the main to easily access it.. Also, the placement of the collapsible debris leading to the center high ground location vs. the wider, further away ramp makes this map very unique and different from what we’re used to seeing on the ladder. We were looking for a balanced yet different in gameplay map, and this felt like the strongest choice out of the community maps we looked at this season.
Secret Spring
Secret Spring's unique feature is that there are 3 ground paths to your opponent, two of which are initially blocked by destructible rocks and a third which begins as open, but can also be blocked by breaking down collapsible debris. Therefore, although the rush distance is shorter on this map compared to most other maps, players will be able to make the choice of rushing early or breaking down debris to play a more of a defensive game. We’re excited to try out this map and see the effects of having ground paths which can potentially be cut off depending on the players’ choices within the game. We believe one of the main important factors when playing on this map will be to scout which paths are being opened up throughout the course of the game.
Vaani Research Station
Vaani Research Stations is the more standard map of those in the pool. Overall, the expansion paths are quite straight forward, and the main difference compared to other standard maps we’ve seen in the past is that there are lots of open spaces around various locations of the map.
Inferno Pools
We wanted to include at least one big macro map this season and Inferno Pools is that map. Even though rush distances are quite far away, defending the third base on this map will be more challenging than other macro maps we’ve tried so far. There are some unique choices of grabbing the high yield base as the third or taking the island expansion depending on where players spawn on this 4 player map. Overall, scouting and watching for when enemies are coming will be important in order to be able to macro well on this map.
Those are the four maps we’ll be adding in for the 2015 Season 1 map pool. Keep your eyes peeled for future updates as we’ll soon be adding details on the team maps! Until then, make sure to check out the new 1v1 maps in the custom games section so you can prepare your best strategies to surprise players come next season! Below is a compiled list of the complete map pool.
Complete 1v1 Map Pool for 2015 Season 1
Foxtrot Labs LE
Catallena LE
Expedition Lost
Secret Spring
Vaani Research Station
Inferno Pools
Deadwing LE
(2) Expedition Lost by algue
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ndELTXe.jpg?1)
(2) Secret Spring
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mUvVj8s.png)
(2) Vaani Research Station
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tgfEsdE.jpg)
(4) Inferno Pools
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L7XXJOG.png)
Expedition Lost was the winner of the map-ximum mapmaking competition held several months ago. The other maps seem to be Blizzard-made.
This is... interesting. Secret Spring in particular should lead to weird games.
Poll: Expedition Lost?Yay (334) 66% Nay (119) 24% Neutral (53) 10% 506 total votes Your vote: Expedition Lost? (Vote): Yay
(Vote): Nay
(Vote): Neutral
Poll: Secret Spring?Nay (233) 51% Yay (188) 41% Neutral (39) 8% 460 total votes Your vote: Secret Spring? (Vote): Yay
(Vote): Nay
(Vote): Neutral
Poll: Vaani Research Station?Yay (247) 57% Nay (137) 32% Neutral (50) 12% 434 total votes Your vote: Vaani Research Station? (Vote): Yay
(Vote): Nay
(Vote): Neutral
Poll: Inferno Pools?Nay (237) 50% Yay (171) 36% Neutral (70) 15% 478 total votes Your vote: Inferno Pools? (Vote): Yay
(Vote): Nay
(Vote): Neutral
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Meh maps IMO...actually some of them will be interesting to see... but too early to tell
It'll be interesting to see this pans out
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Expedition Lost looks awesome. Like if CK and KSS had a baby.
The rest strike me as very boring.
edit: Actually, I'll say I'm neutral on Inferno Pools. I like islands.
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France7248 Posts
you might want to add a ? in the title if you only "believe" those are the maps 
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Holy shit Expedition Lost, made by algue :D
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 08:19 Yhamm wrote:you might want to add a ? in the title if you only "believe" those are the maps
Yeah, probably. My bad ^^
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Vaani Research Station... we just can't have a ladder season without something Station on it, can we? Habitation, King Sejong, etc. Also, it looks like a boring map. Expedition lost looks neat, and Inferno Pools looks ugly as sin.
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Expedition Lost seems cool, the rest seems pretty meh.
Secret spring seems very terrifying for zergs ;O
All these 3ths are actually hard to take :D
I fear for forcefields every time I see destructible rocks near my bases ...
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your Country52797 Posts
My quick thoughts on each map:
Expedition Lost hell yes
Secret Spring should be interesting, very nearly a semi-island map so you could rush the center rocks and mass expand or something? There are also semi-island bases which are very cool.
Vaani Research Station is a worse habitation station + Overgrowth
Inferno Pools is like Entombed Valley with more third base options.
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Expedition Lost!!!
I am so pumped that algue made it to the ladder pool. The rest of the maps look okay at best. Research station in particular would get ignored if not a Blizz map. We get better maps in our MotM contest here. Where is Emerald Plaza, where is The Divide, where are the KTV maps? I guess this is only 4 of them.
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2015 will be the rise of Snute!
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France7248 Posts
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Oh god, they're keeping Deadwing? And Foxtrot? And Catallena? Can't we just have 7 new maps?
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your Country52797 Posts
Adding to OP. I'm faster than blizzard woohoo! 
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the blizzard map making team strikes again -_-
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We're keeping Deadwing, Foxtrot, and Catallena, and dropping KSS, Overgrowth, MGR, and Nimbus, and not using the best community maps from the last 4 months*
zzzzz
*except for expedition lost <3
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Hey Temp, Blizzard's pic of Vaani is different. One of you rotated it, which way is it? Not that it really matters I'm just curious
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whattttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
they're keeping foxtrot AND deadwing and removing overgrowth???
THANKS BLIZZARD
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On December 19 2014 08:28 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Oh god, they're keeping Deadwing? And Foxtrot? And Catallena? Can't we just have 7 new maps?
Probably best to not completely wipe a map pool in one season for pro convenience, but wtf at kicking out Overgrowth and KSS but keeping Deadwing and Catallena...
I'm glad Foxtrot is staying. I think it deserves more time to prove itself. Doesn't have profoundly imbalanced stats and the games have been interesting on it.
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Whoo hoo new maps. Hopefully they play out interestingly.
I like that there is the inclusion of a community made map.
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Every day, my dislike for Blizzard grows. When I think it can't grow anymore, I always end up surprised. Why would you keep Foxtrot a map that 99% of players vetod. Blizzard doesn't care about players, fans, etc. I really have no idea what they care about or what their goals are.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 08:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Hey Temp, Blizzard's pic of Vaani is different. One of you rotated it, which way is it? Not that it really matters I'm just curious
They rotated it.
Question mark can be removed from the OP by the way, now that blizzard has confirmed it.
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On December 19 2014 08:33 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 08:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Hey Temp, Blizzard's pic of Vaani is different. One of you rotated it, which way is it? Not that it really matters I'm just curious They rotated it. Question mark can be removed from the OP by the way, now that blizzard has confirmed it.
Done.
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Canada8157 Posts
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On December 19 2014 08:33 playa wrote:
Every day, my dislike for Blizzard grows. When I think it can't grow anymore, I always end up surprised. Why would you keep Foxtrot a map that 99% of players vetod. Blizzard doesn't care about players, fans, etc. I really have no idea what they care about or what their goals are.
The weird part is - this is really only true with StarCraft.
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don't they have the stats for the most vetoed maps? I don't understand why you would keep foxtrot.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Cause he'll have killed everyone else from exhaustion?
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France7248 Posts
On December 19 2014 08:28 The_Templar wrote:Adding to OP. I'm faster than blizzard woohoo!
I'm not sure.
Your news is at 00:10 CET, theirs is "36 minutes ago" which would be 00:01 CET 
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They still don't understand that maps made by mapmakers are better then made by themself. Blizzard, there's better people outside.
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Hahahahaha well played algue :D
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WTF they keeped the maps with more vetos... WTF
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On December 19 2014 08:36 stuchiu wrote:Cause he'll have killed everyone else from exhaustion?
Of course.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 08:38 Boucot wrote:
Hahahahaha well played algue :D
Algue used some black magic or something ^^
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So I think the real question here is, do any of these maps really help Zerg that much? That's kind of what we needed, right? I mean, as Snute said, SHs might be broken now, but other than that, I don't know.
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Not excited about these at all. Expedition Lost looks like the only decent one.
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Not gonna lie... in the nicest way possible... these maps look absolutely horrendous... Back to 2012 2 base toss builds I guess.
yo like seriously, can i play only deadwing next season? I don't even like that map but it's the only reasonable one in the pool...... lol. >.>..
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Does anyone else think Vaani Research Station looks almost exactly like Habitation Station, just with a different skin?
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Imagine:
KSS
Expedition Lost
KTV Miami
Out Boxer
Nimbus
Sputnik
Emerald Plaza
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On December 19 2014 08:45 SC2Towelie wrote:
Does anyone else think Vaani Research Station looks almost exactly like Habitation Station, just with a different skin?
If it got fat and laid on it's side yes.
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I like all of the new maps, hopefully we will see cool strategies on them.
I cant believe how they could keep Deadwing. 4 Bases for free, very very boring.
Catallena und Foxtrot were also my least favourite maps, i dont like playing (or watching) on them at all.
The old 7 maps were used since forever because of the dreampool season, we should make 7 new maps instead of just 4.
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They are trolling, right?
They keep 3 of the worse maps from the last season, add 1 community map (the map that I really wanted to see) and 3 experimental ones of their own.
Well played blizzard, now show the real mappool.
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So i thought they were gonna help zerg with the new mappool? wow....
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On December 19 2014 08:34 Jer99 wrote:
oh my god oh no
This + i can't believe blizzard still has the authority to dictate wcs maps
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I'm glad Foxtrot stays, still a very unexplored map. King Sejong was the best map from the previous pool, but the balanced maps have already had too much playtime.
Looks cool, experimental, but cool.
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damn need more vetoes than 3
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Can we get a poll for the old maps staying? That's a bigger deal than the new maps. Lol.
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Catallena and Foxtrot lol.
first two maps look pretty neat but what an awful map pool.
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expedition lost = dual sight? :D
smart to include islands on maps to help zerg!!
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LOL. Deadwing and Catallena still there, Overgrowth and KSS removed...
Go fuck yourself Blizzard. Seriously.
User was temp banned for this post.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 09:01 oOOoOphidian wrote:
expedition lost = dual sight? :D
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/r2okW.jpg)
Dual sight for comparison.
I don't really see any similarities, to be honest.
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At first I didn't really like the maps, but after getting in game they do look a lot better.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2014 09:03 JonSnow wrote:
At first I didn't really like the maps, but after getting in game they do look a lot better.
That's surprisingly comforting
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Dear Blizzard,
Unless you plan to give Terran and Protoss players the ability to veto Zerg, please consider adding maps that are actually playable.
Kind regards
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All i see is whining.. 99% of you probably didnt even try the maps... I like that foxtrot is staying. Still an unexplored map. Catallena is gonna get vetoed like always but other than that i think the maps are fine
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On December 19 2014 09:05 TheDwf wrote:
Dear Blizzard,
Unless you plan to give Terran and Protoss players the ability to veto Zerg, please consider adding maps that are actually playable.
Kind regards
Haha these maps are so good for terran dude
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On December 19 2014 09:07 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:05 TheDwf wrote:
Dear Blizzard,
Unless you plan to give Terran and Protoss players the ability to veto Zerg, please consider adding maps that are actually playable.
Kind regards Haha these maps are so good for terran dude
Thanks for the good laugh lol
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To be frank, Vaani, Secret Spring and Expedition Lost look promising. I'm even madder they kept the worse maps possible (OK, they scrapped Nimbus) when we could at last have had a decent map pool. Blizzard, listen to us !
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All maps should just be community-made. Even if these Blizzard-made maps are decent, it just makes it more fun for the community to be more involved. Heck, Blizzard mapmakers can enter the contests, too. Community votes.
Sigh
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On December 19 2014 08:33 playa wrote:
Every day, my dislike for Blizzard grows. When I think it can't grow anymore, I always end up surprised. Why would you keep Foxtrot a map that 99% of players vetod. Blizzard doesn't care about players, fans, etc. I really have no idea what they care about or what their goals are.
I agree with you so much, oh my god .. Really dunno if they even ask a single progamer about the maps.. OH WAIT! We had shit, cancerous imbalanced maps from 2011 put into a different game in 2014 !!! What a great move boys !
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Its so funny how they take so long to release this maps -_-
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On December 19 2014 09:08 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:07 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On December 19 2014 09:05 TheDwf wrote:
Dear Blizzard,
Unless you plan to give Terran and Protoss players the ability to veto Zerg, please consider adding maps that are actually playable.
Kind regards Haha these maps are so good for terran dude Thanks for the good laugh lol
You too
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I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ? I'm disgusted that stupid free 4 bases map is staying. It's an outrage.
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On December 19 2014 09:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ?
Besides, aren't you supposed to be able to take a third if it's a "macro map"!?
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On December 19 2014 09:13 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ? Steppes of War is better in almost every way. Not even joking.
Oh man, the shock when I saw this map haha
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On December 19 2014 09:13 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ? Besides, aren't you supposed to be able to take a third if it's a "macro map"!?
Indeed. This looks like a bad troll.
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On December 19 2014 09:13 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ? Steppes of War is better in almost every way. Not even joking.
speaking of steppes of war, is it me or does anyone else think secret springs remind them of steppes?
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On December 19 2014 09:13 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:11 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I especially like the "we wanted to include at least one big macro map this season, and Inferno Pools is that map".
What is Deadwing ? Steppes of War ? Besides, aren't you supposed to be able to take a third if it's a "macro map"!?
That map is the biggest joke...
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Paradoxically enough, I think when I'll have vetoed the retarded maps (Catallena, Deadwing and Inferno fuck you Blizzard Pools) the map pool will be OK.
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Expedition Lost seems interesting but I am not sure what the impact of the backdoor entrance will be.
Secret Spring seems to be decent map, which however offers nothing really new or interesting. I hope protoss deathball pushes through the narrow middle path will not be too strong.
Vaani Research Station seems to be bound to showcase a lot of long macro games. I'm not really sure how I feel about it.
Inferno Pools has an easy to take gold expo (if there are no horizontal spawns) and an island expo. I'm actually intrigued to see how this plays out.
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Not too happy with this. I was expecting 7 new maps to excuse the dreampool and I dislike half of these new maps at first glance.
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Blizzard trying to resurrect the "dead game" complaints for SC2.
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On December 19 2014 09:18 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Paradoxically enough, I think when I'll have vetoed the retarded maps (Catallena, Deadwing and Inferno fuck you Blizzard Pools) the map pool will be OK.
Oh no, believe me you'll keep Catallena and Deadwing instead of Secret Spring and Vaani. They're completely unplayable for PvT/PvZ/TvZ as well
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They remove the best maps (King Sejong and Overgrowth) and keep the worst map in the pool (Foxtrot Labs). Catallena and Deadwing aren't good either...
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And so, the perennial tradition continues. Everything Blizzard does is terrible until proven otherwise.
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If anyone wants to try these new maps add Zik#317 on NA. (diamond zerg)
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I like Expedition Lost and Secret Spring, the others not so much. The removals make sense in a way. They removed the oldest maps plus Nimbus which was probably the most imbalanced of the newer ones. Too bad the newer maps in general weren't all that good.
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Now I understand why they called the current map pool #dreampool. Next to this it's indeed heaven
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Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU?
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On December 19 2014 09:38 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU?
Already live on NA
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my first impression is not good 
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hello id like to veto every map in the pool please
is it a bad thing that when i go to play customs with teammates we still play all of our matches on maps that havent been in pool for multiple seasons?
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On December 19 2014 09:40 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:38 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU? Already live on NA
wait, they said they go back to the S3 pool, and after polishing the shown maps they will include them... :O
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On December 19 2014 09:44 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:40 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 09:38 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU? Already live on NA wait, they said they go back to the S3 pool, and after polishing the shown maps they will include them... :O
I mean, they're available in customs
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On December 19 2014 09:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:44 Big J wrote:On December 19 2014 09:40 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 09:38 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU? Already live on NA wait, they said they go back to the S3 pool, and after polishing the shown maps they will include them... :O I mean, they're available in customs
Yeah, sorry, this is what I meant.
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This might very well be the worst change of mappol if we exclude the atrocity that was dreampool.
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On December 19 2014 09:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 09:44 Big J wrote:On December 19 2014 09:40 TheDwf wrote:On December 19 2014 09:38 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Any word on when these all go live on NA/EU? Already live on NA wait, they said they go back to the S3 pool, and after polishing the shown maps they will include them... :O I mean, they're available in customs
ah, kk.
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Secret Spring is just horrible. Wont be played.
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On December 19 2014 09:50 Mozdk wrote:
Secret Spring is just horrible. Wont be played.
Agreed, tried it and already not a fan. The first winter snow map is not too bad, havent tried the 2 others but doesnt look so good.
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May Silent Spring die a swift and merciless death. As much as I like split-map play in lower leagues, they make for fucking terrible spectator games. The more I look at Vaani Research Station, the more I like it. One of my favorite tall maps ever.
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So turns out Secret Spring is broken lol
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Its the objects mear the ramp, couldve been spotted and prevented by as little as pressing v in the editor, seriously blizz...
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new maps look nice. And I guess PvZ will flip abit into Zerg favor ?
All maps have one thing in common, Gold expansions that don't have a 500hp rock plate. Guess we will see those PvZ games alot haha.
gonna test em a bit. And lol at that ramp issue ...WIP indeed.
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k blizzard:
overgrowth
whirlwind
neo planet s
frost
star station
king sejong station
habitat station
make this your map pool and everyone will be crying tears of joy.
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On December 19 2014 10:17 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So turns out Secret Spring is broken lol
Also its textures look like awful. They added height maps to Mar Sara's textures which broke them, and didn't bother removing them, or even try to work around it and blur them or something. Looks like garbage, to speak nothing of the layout.
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On December 19 2014 10:22 Meavis wrote:
Its the objects mear the ramp, couldve been spotted and prevented by as little as pressing v in the editor, seriously blizz...
lol.
I've made bad maps... but that is some really basic stuff.
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I love how Secret Spring is the only map that is actually different and will require players to have a different strategy but everyone in the poll hates it. This is why every single game in SC2 looks so similar, Because people dont want to learn new maps, they just want the same old crap regurgitated over and over. 3 Easy bases and a choice between 2 bases for the fourth. I wish Blizzard was willing to change the map pool radically and stick with it to force players to learn and adapt.
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On December 19 2014 10:27 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:17 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So turns out Secret Spring is broken lol Also its textures look like awful. They added height maps to Mar Sara's textures which broke them, and didn't bother removing them, or even try to work around it and blur them or something. Looks like garbage, to speak nothing of the layout.
Found the best way to work around the height maps to be painting the area with a normal texture first, and then replacing it with the mar sara texture
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On December 19 2014 10:18 The_Templar wrote:I played a game against SGTK on Secret Spring and it seems that walling is broken. I couldn't wall normally with 2 depots and a barracks. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H58lmS2.png) Also, I don't know if this normally happens (I play protoss), but I couldn't get my tanks out of my main despite having what looked like a lot of room. I had to kill the reactor as shown in the picture. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EryC0tO.png)
That's pretty damning - that's one of the simplest things to check. It suggests they did not playtest the version of the map they made live.
meanwhile uvantak has the strictest quality control ever
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On December 19 2014 10:30 mrRoflpwn wrote:
I love how Secret Spring is the only map that is actually different and will require players to have a different strategy but everyone in the poll hates it. This is why every single game in SC2 looks so similar, Because people dont want to learn new maps, they just want the same old crap regurgitated over and over. 3 Easy bases and a choice between 2 bases for the fourth. I wish Blizzard was willing to change the map pool radically and stick with it to force players to learn and adapt.
It's not because it's different, it's because the things-that-are-the-same are broken. The complaints I've read are that it's too abusable by blink and you can't take a 3rd. It has nothing to do with the center or the pseudo-island concept. fwiw I like it best out of the blizz maps, but I would change the layout to better support the concept if it were up to me. or I'd pass it on to a better mapmaker.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 10:30 mrRoflpwn wrote:
I love how Secret Spring is the only map that is actually different and will require players to have a different strategy but everyone in the poll hates it. This is why every single game in SC2 looks so similar, Because people dont want to learn new maps, they just want the same old crap regurgitated over and over. 3 Easy bases and a choice between 2 bases for the fourth. I wish Blizzard was willing to change the map pool radically and stick with it to force players to learn and adapt.
I like Secret Spring D:
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your Country52797 Posts
Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KTu0veP.png)
SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there.
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On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. + Show Spoiler +
To note, these do not show up on low (which I use).
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On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there.
Thats the space decal doodad, the white stripe variant, upsized and recoulered black.
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On December 19 2014 10:25 Gamegene wrote:
k blizzard:
overgrowth
whirlwind
neo planet s
frost
star station
king sejong station
habitat station
make this your map pool and everyone will be crying tears of joy.
neo planet s was such a bad map lol so don't count me into the everyone.
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Love the new maps and the harder to take third bases.
Not liking foxtrot and deadwing, woulda preferred sejong/merry or even overgrowth, but oh well.
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Bluepost in 3 months incoming:
"Maps play a big role in overall balance, and we feel the current under-performance of Zerg in both match-ups can be addressed through the upcoming changes to the 2015 Season 2 map pool."
And then they're gonna remove the best 2 Zergmaps again.
Because #fucklogic - that's why.
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Inferno springs looks way too much like Zerus Prime D:
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On December 19 2014 10:37 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:30 mrRoflpwn wrote:
I love how Secret Spring is the only map that is actually different and will require players to have a different strategy but everyone in the poll hates it. This is why every single game in SC2 looks so similar, Because people dont want to learn new maps, they just want the same old crap regurgitated over and over. 3 Easy bases and a choice between 2 bases for the fourth. I wish Blizzard was willing to change the map pool radically and stick with it to force players to learn and adapt. I like Secret Spring D:
It has one path through the middle. Everything else is blocked. Counterattack in TvZ? Yeah, counterattack them damn rocks!!!!!!!! 3rd choices? Overrated! Strategical depth, who needs that? Two base setup? For free, 1-wide ramp, so much fun to play against two base allins that can go completely retard greed early. Even if that map turns out balanced which would be a small miracle... how much fun is it to play?
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On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there.
I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor...
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e29lFZ2.png)
Or ... at least some *raptor ...
So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting.
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i love them! and they are getting rid of all the maps i vetoed…kim blink kejong station, nimbus aka zerg surround heaven, and overgrowth aka mech city. Catallena and foxtrot much more fun!
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On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there. I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting.
Confirmed Jurassic World conspiracy.
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On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there. I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting.
Zergling...
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Vatican City State35 Posts
Weird that they dropped the old popular maps and kept the ones people seem to veto. Still happy to play any of these maps over dreampool however.
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Cool maps, I'm interested to see how they play out!
I think everybody's so goddamn negative though whenever Blizzard does anything ever. The decision to remove KSS and Overgrowth and what not make a lot of sense as we've had them for more than half the year and the repitition becomes a little dull. I think new maps, as weird and maybe stupid as people think they are based on looking at them for the first time, can create absolutely amazing games.
Also stop hating on Foxtrot, it's made some fantastic games!
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I was hoping they'd add outboxer.
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is 12+ bases map the norm these days? And wheres the like of Emeral Plaza or Bridgehead?
I thought Proleague would cure our soul with a few awesome maps but it looks like they are on the same boat with Blizzard too. how sad!
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On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yDnmQzD.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XhBMg9l.png) This is how you wall your main ramp. It's completely tight but looks stupid. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rsX9SCX.png)
And you probably have the tank problem, i.e. can large units fit through the opening?
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 11:08 Xenotolerance wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- This is how you wall your main ramp. It's completely tight but looks stupid. ...can large units fit through the opening?
Didn't check, but I don't think so.
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LOL this is just ridiculous, don't they even play test the maps =P
I would like to radically different maps but most of all I just want this bloody dreampool to end xD
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I can't even find these on EU, am I blind? Doesn't matter which 'show' option I try.
That bug on secret spring...wow.. QA right there.
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On December 19 2014 10:32 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:27 NewSunshine wrote:On December 19 2014 10:17 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So turns out Secret Spring is broken lol Also its textures look like awful. They added height maps to Mar Sara's textures which broke them, and didn't bother removing them, or even try to work around it and blur them or something. Looks like garbage, to speak nothing of the layout. Found the best way to work around the height maps to be painting the area with a normal texture first, and then replacing it with the mar sara texture
A better one still is to make a copy of the Mar Sara textures, just without the Height Maps. The problem is there's no easy way to just get rid of them, and that's an annoying thing to have to do each time I want to use Mar Sara. Using another texture set is easier, but won't work quite so well, since you're blending different textures. Either way, I'm baffled that Blizzard put something in a tileset that makes it look like ass, and failed to do anything about it. Mar Sara is one of the good tilesets too.
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On December 19 2014 11:02 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting. Zergling...
Well, crap. That's totally the mandible and not a neck.
/hype
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 11:11 fruity. wrote:
I can't even find these on EU, am I blind? Doesn't matter which 'show' option I try.
That bug on secret spring...wow.. QA right there.
Not uploaded yet, try NA
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I just love imagining what would happen if these Blizz maps were posted to TL anonymously.
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On December 19 2014 11:06 Arceus wrote:
is 12+ bases map the norm these days? And wheres the like of Emeral Plaza or Bridgehead?
I thought Proleague would cure our soul with a few awesome maps but it looks like they are on the same boat with Blizzard too. how sad!
Hehehe Proleague awards WCS points now ! One rule for tournaments that award those points is that they have to use the Ladder map pool.
I still hope because the WCS points are awarded differently, that they are allowed to use different maps. But the 2015 WCS changes, would probably make games on non Ladder maps a mess anyway.
So Standardmaps everywhere now T.T .
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On December 19 2014 11:15 The_Templar wrote:
Not uploaded yet, try NA
oki do
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there. I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting.
I meant the black stripes.
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On December 19 2014 11:31 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there. I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting. I meant the black stripes.
I think he knows that... he was just pointing it out lol
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I like the new map maps overall.
But why keep Catallena and Foxtrot? Pros are vetoing those maps, and not that it matters but i vetoed those maps.
KSS and Ovrgrowth are great! Produced great games, are balanced and fun to play, so why remove them?
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On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- This is how you wall your main ramp. It's completely tight but looks stupid.
...Wow
I don't even know what to say. To think that somebody is actually getting paid to produce this steaming pile of manure...
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Damn it Blizzard, you can't make maps, we've learned this already, please stop trying.
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On December 19 2014 11:15 Edowyth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:02 Solar424 wrote:On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting. Zergling... Well, crap. That's totally the mandible and not a neck. /hype
Cannot unsee a raptor now. :O
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OMG these maps, #BRINGBACK #DREAMPOOL
i like Secret Spring tho
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On December 19 2014 11:38 SackOfWetMice wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- This is how you wall your main ramp. It's completely tight but looks stupid. ...Wow I don't even know what to say. To think that somebody is actually getting paid to produce this steaming pile of manure...
Well that's the exact reason why those maps are not in the ladderr yet, they said they are not ready and are still bugged. They just wanted people to be able have a look at them before the season starts and will fix the bugs until next season starts.
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On December 19 2014 10:30 mrRoflpwn wrote:
I love how Secret Spring is the only map that is actually different and will require players to have a different strategy but everyone in the poll hates it. This is why every single game in SC2 looks so similar, Because people dont want to learn new maps, they just want the same old crap regurgitated over and over. 3 Easy bases and a choice between 2 bases for the fourth. I wish Blizzard was willing to change the map pool radically and stick with it to force players to learn and adapt.
Sure it might be different/unique but it's just a horribly, god awfully made map that looks like crap and is already bugged. Also it has the most bases of any 2p map to date, which is just about the worst trend that could happen to maps for this game.
On December 19 2014 16:23 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:38 SackOfWetMice wrote:On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- This is how you wall your main ramp. It's completely tight but looks stupid. ...Wow I don't even know what to say. To think that somebody is actually getting paid to produce this steaming pile of manure... Well that's the exact reason why those maps are not in the ladderr yet, they said they are not ready and are still bugged. They just wanted people to be able have a look at them before the season starts and will fix the bugs until next season starts.
With the exception of Expedition Lost, "bug fixing" these maps would involve completely redesigning them.
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On December 19 2014 11:10 Shuffleblade wrote:
LOL this is just ridiculous, don't they even play test the maps =P
I would like to radically different maps but most of all I just want this bloody dreampool to end xD
To be fair this is literally the reason they said they didn't want to add these to the ladder pool right away...lack of playtesting.
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There's so many better community made maps so I don't understand why Blizzard just doesn't use ALL community maps for the map pool.
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blizzard should just get some of our MotM winners or some maps from our mapmakers. These maps except for expedition lost is just not feasible for play
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I feel vanni will be extremely hard for Zerg in TvZ when Terran takes the gold, the rush distance between is very short so good staging area for Terran, if Zerg is good with creep it might work but overall not happy there, REALLY not happy with them keeping cata and fox yet removing over and kss...idk we will see how this works but as a fan of longer games (at least when I play) I think imma veto fox and Prob the desert map(unless I go full #pashunhosts)
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OK just saw them, some things going through my head :
-first, aesthetics : come on Blizzard. In terms of aesthetics, the difference between algue's map and the others looks like the difference between a WIP map and a finished map (and algue's map isn't even that impressive aesthetically compared to some other maps)...
-Expedition Lost : this is typically a map that I would have liked to be tried in the offseason instead of that stupid Dreampool, because it looks like it could reveal to be a bit broken. But apart from that I really like it.
-Secret Spring : very narrow natural choke but very far from the natural base (yay ZvZ), a lot of bases, aesthetics so horrible it looks like I could have made this map. What's to like?
-Vaani Station : Zergs, enjoy having your fourth towards the Terran's third/fourth. Also, free natural and no army movement to defend both the main's entrance and the third.
-Inferno Pools : "We wanted to include at least one big macro map this season and Inferno Pools is that one". Well, you know, you kept Deadwing in the pool too. So, yeah, that makes two big macro map, which is at least one unnecessary map.
-Overall : Seriously, where's my Bridgehead ):
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From the people who made Steppes of War and Delta Quadrant, I present you....Blizzard's map making team!!!!
You gotta give it to them for being able to make terrible maps on a consistent basis. It's like they are so delusional into thinking they are the best mapmakers ever.
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Foxtrot and Deadwing remain while Overgrowth and King Sejong are out? Seriously?! On the other hand, I quite like Expedition Lost, Vaani Research Station, and Inferno Pools! Secret Spring looks a little iffy...
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Only excited about expedition lost, good job algue.
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these map pool decisions... jfc
really excited for algue's map though! and secret spring looks fun. the others are like super blizzard garbage, just like every other time the new game is out...
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I think I can make better maps than these and I never used map editor... #facepalm #clueslessblizzard #wedontcareaboutcommunity #blizzardsc2teamisfullofliears #davidkimout #hiremapmakersfrom tl community #readdestinyspostagain
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What on earth is difficult about letting the community handle the maps? Seriously, I get that there is a lack of playtesting, but Secret Spring looks like an hour's work with that wall fuckup, so stupid. And removing KSS is really a shame. Man, I want to get rid of Foxtrot and Catallena badly.
Woohoo, new season. -_-
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King sejong's and overgrowth were very balanced, it's a risk to abandon them IMO.
Deadwing is balanced too, but actually so boring, I guess there is a demand for big boring maps among the community, so we always have one each season.
As well as there must a demand for wierd ass maps as Foxtrot... I still think this one is too spawn location dependent esp, in TvZ, but if people are happy with it...
Expedition lost is really cool, although I wonder what pros will do on it.
I haven't tested the others
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Goodbye Overgrowth, I will miss you
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On December 19 2014 17:13 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:
I think I can make better maps than these and I never used map editor... #facepalm #clueslessblizzard #wedontcareaboutcommunity #blizzardsc2teamisfullofliears #davidkimout #hiremapmakersfrom tl community #readdestinyspostagain
Just go ahead there is a sub-forum for this, we would all benefit from your superior intelligence.
Foxtrot, catellena and expedition lost are community made btw.
Nimbus was community made and voted as one of the best community maps, did you see the results?
#getaeffingclue
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So King Sejong Station is out?!  but why???
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On December 19 2014 17:18 Gwavajuice wrote:
Deadwing is balanced too, but actually so boring, I guess there is a demand for big boring maps among the community, so we always have one each season.
And yet they added a second one...
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On December 19 2014 10:45 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 10:25 Gamegene wrote:
k blizzard:
overgrowth
whirlwind
neo planet s
frost
star station
king sejong station
habitat station
make this your map pool and everyone will be crying tears of joy.
neo planet s was such a bad map lol so don't count me into the everyone.
hating on sc2 heartbreak ridge should be a sin
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
To anyone who played them - how these maps are handled in the terms of dropping? Catallena stayed, Foxtrot stayed and Nimbus stayed. The big 3 of TvP MMA/BByong style = Drop frenzy!
If I guess>
Expedition - you cannot cover back door entrance with nexus cannon(all hail PvZ roach timings) and you can swing from left to right with no problems. Excellent. Also a lot of air space around natural and main.
Springs - You cannot defend natural ramp with nexus cannon. Great for PvZ. Also I can see tanks in TvX under the cliffs, I suppose they can hit minerals in natural/third. On of the maps where you cannot fly around main, that's a bonus from my view 
Vaani - Yay, this looks like overgrowth, kinda. More air under/over the base(meaning the bottom or the top of the map). It looks like free 3rd in PvZ with a wall to the side. There are only 2 entrances left and, well, force fields. Don't know what to think yet.
Inferno Pools - another map where you can left the drop in free airspace near the main. Excellent.
I predict BByong and MMA for the top if their wrists hold in PvT. But as I said, I haven't played the maps yet, maybe it doesn't look so bad. Though again, in BO5 I will prefer Terran in Liquibets
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This mappool is trully genius! They on purpose released terrible maps made on the fly, not by the community and full of bugs and kept all the worst map in the last mappool beaten to death and THAT WAS THE PLAN!
Now they will come back (as planned) a few days after saying : "we heard your feedback, here is 7 new community maps".
(They bring Algue map on the first try just to make it less suspicious I guess. )
And then we couldn't argue anymore that they don't listen to us or don't give a shit.
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Those maps look pretty meh to be honest. Well still better than dreampool and S3 so...
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Secret Spring just screams Blink-All-In to me, the other seem... meh
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We need more maps like secret spring, this way blizzard will have to balance the game for maps with a very open main. At the moment shitty maps like Expedition Lost prevent blink all-ins too much which make the strategy look balanced but prevents map makers from being more imaginative with their main. If the map pool was filled with maps like Secret Spring the blink all in would be broken and Blizzard would have to nerf it.
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Did they failed to upload the right maps? Or are the "removal" maps actually the ones that stay? I saw HTOMario play on Overgrowth and he also had Merry go round in the Map Choices. Don´t know about the others he closed it too quick. Also don´t know which server he played on. Think it was NA cause the maps changed during his matches to the new pool.
I won´t play on Secret Spring until they fix the walling and the other bug. How can they not playtest these maps?
And Expedition Lost? Instaveto. Backdoor rocks in main= No thank you. I remember Blistering Sands being hell for me back when I started playing SC II.
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I like Inferno pools. It's like a mix of Andromeda and Fighting Spirit.
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France9034 Posts
Expedition Lost is cool.
The others... not so.
Also this:
Boooom!
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why the fuck are they keeping deadwing??? that is the most boring map ever created
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France9034 Posts
Also, don't understand the removal of King Sejong yet. Would have enjoyed this map for an extra season... So much fun on it!
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On December 19 2014 18:56 Charoisaur wrote:
why the fuck are they keeping deadwing??? that is the most boring map ever created
Not only most boring but probably also ugliest. There's tons of aesthetic flaws/mistakes everywhere.
Edit: Did Blizz rig these polls or something? I can't believe how many people like the new Blizzard maps...
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On December 19 2014 18:53 Tresher wrote:
Did they failed to upload the right maps? Or are the "removal" maps actually the ones that stay? I saw HTOMario play on Overgrowth and he also had Merry go round in the Map Choices. Don´t know about the others he closed it too quick. Also don´t know which server he played on. Think it was NA cause the maps changed during his matches to the new pool.
I won´t play on Secret Spring until they fix the walling and the other bug. How can they not playtest these maps?
And Expedition Lost? Instaveto. Backdoor rocks in main= No thank you. I remember Blistering Sands being hell for me back when I started playing SC II.
Hm? I hope I got ur confusion right: The current season gets the maps for Season 3 back. The presented maps are for the next WCS Season 1 in 2015.
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ha!
I guess this is like getting socks for Christmas
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please stop the blizzard bashing until you have properly tested the new maps.
if you look at them first they seem to be quite weird but maybe they will play out very well.
when i first saw KSS or merry go round i also thought they would be terrible but now everybody is sad they are gone.
also i agree with blizzards decision to remove overgrowth, KSS and merry go round. Sure they are one of the best maps ever created but they are just to old. Better keep the map pool fresh instead of keeping the good maps forever.
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On December 19 2014 19:07 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 18:53 Tresher wrote:
Did they failed to upload the right maps? Or are the "removal" maps actually the ones that stay? I saw HTOMario play on Overgrowth and he also had Merry go round in the Map Choices. Don´t know about the others he closed it too quick. Also don´t know which server he played on. Think it was NA cause the maps changed during his matches to the new pool.
I won´t play on Secret Spring until they fix the walling and the other bug. How can they not playtest these maps?
And Expedition Lost? Instaveto. Backdoor rocks in main= No thank you. I remember Blistering Sands being hell for me back when I started playing SC II. Hm? I hope I got ur confusion right: The current season gets the maps for Season 3 back. The presented maps are for the next WCS Season 1 in 2015.
Im even more confused now. I just checked and all season 3 maps are back. The Official Post wasn´t very clear about this. So we get the new maps later or what? Or are they only for WCS? It says they are for ladder.
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On December 19 2014 19:15 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 19:07 Phaenoman wrote:On December 19 2014 18:53 Tresher wrote:
Did they failed to upload the right maps? Or are the "removal" maps actually the ones that stay? I saw HTOMario play on Overgrowth and he also had Merry go round in the Map Choices. Don´t know about the others he closed it too quick. Also don´t know which server he played on. Think it was NA cause the maps changed during his matches to the new pool.
I won´t play on Secret Spring until they fix the walling and the other bug. How can they not playtest these maps?
And Expedition Lost? Instaveto. Backdoor rocks in main= No thank you. I remember Blistering Sands being hell for me back when I started playing SC II. Hm? I hope I got ur confusion right: The current season gets the maps for Season 3 back. The presented maps are for the next WCS Season 1 in 2015. Im even more confused now. I just checked and all season 3 maps are back. The Official Post wasn´t very clear about this. So we get the new maps later or what? Or are they only for WCS? It says they are for ladder.
Yes, Blizzard announced they would be changing the current map pool back to the 2014 Season 3 map pool. And the next Season in 2015 will include the maps u see here in this thread.
Ladder map pool = WCS map pool. It has been like this for a long time now.
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Please Psione. If you're here, and you're reading this, then please fight with all your might for community-made maps. Not gonna sugarcoat this: next season's map pool is an absolute catastrophe. There is an abundance of incredible community maps out there right now. There is more than enough material on deck right now to make next season's map pool the most incredible SC2 has ever had by far.
Something like this (previously suggested):
King Sejong Station
Expedition Lost
KTV Miami
Out Boxer
Nimbus
Sputnik
Emerald Plaza
Is easily possible. All these maps are out there. They're all easily accessible. They've been made by talented people who love this game and spend hours crafting maps which yield interesting matches. Maps like these will satisfy both professional players and casuals. And as an added bonus, most of them have been battle-tested. And...they'll get you that ZvX bump up the balance team so desires. So please push this.
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Well despite all the hate I think Secret Spring looks quite pretty really. Not a huge fan of grey maps like Vaani Research Station.
Not even going to comment on the design/balance situation though. Plenty of people already got that covered. X-D
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Remember that hype about Lotv, they still care about SC2 and bla bla bla.
Well have fun playing on bad maps again.
Most of these maps are just terrible designed, the community has created multiple maps better than this before.
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Out of all the old maps they keep Deadwing, Catellena and Foxtrot? Really. Overgrowth and KSS were really good maps from the current pool. Why can't we keep them and have an extra community map.
Feeling a little eurgh over this pool but will at least give the new maps a chance before I grab my pitchfork.
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On December 19 2014 11:44 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:15 Edowyth wrote:On December 19 2014 11:02 Solar424 wrote:On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting. Zergling... Well, crap. That's totally the mandible and not a neck. /hype Cannot unsee a raptor now. :O
Yeah, I totally thought: omg, it's the flying shark of this map pool! Cool!
Now, all I can see is the mandible. *sigh*
On December 19 2014 11:33 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:31 The_Templar wrote:On December 19 2014 10:54 Edowyth wrote:On December 19 2014 10:38 The_Templar wrote:Vaani Research Station seems to have these weird textures on the ramp. I play on high textures by the way. SGTK apparently couldn't see them (playing on low) so I dunno what's going on there. I'm pretty sure that's a velociraptor... Or ... at least some *raptor ... So far, that's the only thing about this pool that's exciting. I meant the black stripes. I think he knows that... he was just pointing it out lol
Actually I had no idea what he was talking about till I read the quote about "recolored black" (having very little knowledge of the assets for map-making), but I did know what he meant before I pointed out the "velociraptor" ling.
:D
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I think it would be funny if there was a mixture between destructible rocks and collapsible towers (or whatever they are called).
A: Destructible rocks: The path is 2x wide and there is a x wide destructible rock, the other x is undestructible terrain you cannot pass. If the destructible rocks get destroyed, the path gets transformed into B
B: Collapsible tower: The path is 2x wide and there is a x wide open terrain and a x wide collapsible tower right next to it. If the collapsible tower gets destroyed, the path gets transformed into A.
Obviously it doesn't make thematic sense with the collapsible tower, but I think it would be funny if Player Y constantly closes the path and Player Z constantly wants to open the path. I don't know if that makes sense balance-wise, but I think David Kim would like that idea from what I heard so far.
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On December 19 2014 20:49 KatatoniK wrote:
Out of all the old maps they keep Deadwing, Catellena and Foxtrot? Really. Overgrowth and KSS were really good maps from the current pool. Why can't we keep them and have an extra community map.
Feeling a little eurgh over this pool but will at least give the new maps a chance before I grab my pitchfork.
I don't think it had anything to do with balance, but rather kicking out the maps that were 9 months old.
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On December 19 2014 21:07 Supersamu wrote:
I think it would be funny if there was a mixture between destructible rocks and collapsible towers (or whatever they are called).
A: Destructible rocks: The path is 2x wide and there is a x wide destructible rock, the other x is undestructible terrain you cannot pass. If the destructible rocks get destroyed, the path gets transformed into B
B: Collapsible tower: The path is 2x wide and there is a x wide open terrain and a x wide collapsible tower right next to it. If the collapsible tower gets destroyed, the path gets transformed into A.
Obviously it doesn't make thematic sense with the collapsible tower, but I think it would be funny if Player Y constantly closes the path and Player Z constantly wants to open the path. I don't know if that makes sense balance-wise, but I think David Kim would like that idea from what I heard so far.
You're essentially asking for a collapsible tower that rebuilds the tower bit a few seconds after dropping on the path. Self-renewing collapsible towers, then.
Self-renewing collapsible towers would be cool for some niche positions on maps (opening up a new attack path to a third / a back-door to a main / etc) and open up some diversity for map makers.
Why not?
On December 19 2014 21:25 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 20:49 KatatoniK wrote:
Out of all the old maps they keep Deadwing, Catellena and Foxtrot? Really. Overgrowth and KSS were really good maps from the current pool. Why can't we keep them and have an extra community map.
Feeling a little eurgh over this pool but will at least give the new maps a chance before I grab my pitchfork. I don't think it had anything to do with balance, but rather kicking out the maps that were 9 months old.
Or maybe they just chose alphabetically.
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On December 19 2014 19:15 Charoisaur wrote:
please stop the blizzard bashing until you have properly tested the new maps.
if you look at them first they seem to be quite weird but maybe they will play out very well.
when i first saw KSS or merry go round i also thought they would be terrible but now everybody is sad they are gone.
also i agree with blizzards decision to remove overgrowth, KSS and merry go round. Sure they are one of the best maps ever created but they are just to old. Better keep the map pool fresh instead of keeping the good maps forever.
Who's sad that MGR is gone?
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As a protoss player, when new maps are released I always like to find cannon rush spots. The most imba cannon rush spot I found so far is on Expedition Lost: http://i.imgur.com/XpxmFpJ.jpg
You only need 2 pylons, and your probe can jump through the pylons when building the cannon. Also this cannon rush spot covers the natural ramp, so zerg can't send drones out to get extra expansions or send lings to be aggressive. The only positive news I can tell to zerg players is that you can break the rocks in your main instead of breaking through the cannons to secure an expansion, that's also a reason why I think it's not worth adding more than 2 cannons to contain the zerg natural here.
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jesus fucking christ did they just remove the 2 best maps of HotS and left fucking Deadwing in?
Nice they actually are introducing a community map, too bad it's also with Blizzard maps instead of some other community work.
Blizzard being Blizzard
edit: I can't still get over it. HOW HARD FOR THEM is to recognize good maps???????
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Blizzard is adding these shitty maps, so when they release LotV beta people will be impressed how good the new maps are compared to these ones.
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Im 100% sure these maps were made 3 days ago when someone realized " Oh shit we dont have new maps ?". Just look , 2011 maps from community were better.
Blizzard please you fucked up big this time.
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Inferno Polis ultra clear vote for any Zerg. It's not like T and P can blink / warpin drop comfortly from main to third and back.
And Island expansions again... Blizz, seriously.. is anyone over in Paris even still playing this game?
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I think the worst map is Secret Spring, there's just so much imbalance in that map, and it doesn't even encourage any fun games. Protoss has to 2 base all in, since 3rd is so hard to take. When protoss does immortal all in vs zerg for example, you can forcefield the ramp to zerg's main+nat and that's a free 3rd for protoss to kill. And if it still goes into macro if somehow both players don't all in each other, it'll be a boring split map game with how the map is designed.
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Excited to see how these play out.
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love it how so many are hating on blizzard. :-/
I think it was okay to remove KSS and Overgrowth (they got old), and MGR wasn't the most balanced map.
I would have liked Nimbus for another season.
Not sure about Secret Spring, but the rest looks rather promising. We'll have to see
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We need more green maps! I enjoyed Ohana way to mutch just because it was green - and no new green map incoming...
and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D
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On December 19 2014 23:14 Pyloss wrote:
We need more green maps! I enjoyed Ohana way to mutch just because it was green - and no new green map incoming...
and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D
green you say? http://imgur.com/a/Ac8r7
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 19 2014 23:18 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 23:14 Pyloss wrote:
We need more green maps! I enjoyed Ohana way to mutch just because it was green - and no new green map incoming...
and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D green you say? http://imgur.com/a/Ac8r7
I'm pretty sure we have maps of every color. We even have a purple map iirc
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On December 19 2014 23:14 Pyloss wrote:and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D
How surprising...
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I feel like the new maps favour Zerg the most tbh (not sure about Inferno, but the other 3 ones).
What do u guys think?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Needs more 3 player maps ;_;
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On December 19 2014 23:18 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 23:14 Pyloss wrote:
We need more green maps! I enjoyed Ohana way to mutch just because it was green - and no new green map incoming...
and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D green you say? http://imgur.com/a/Ac8r7
Yes, that looks fun to play on, and the deep green gives a positive mindset! This in the pool would made me happy.
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France9034 Posts
On December 19 2014 23:41 Pyloss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 23:18 Meavis wrote:On December 19 2014 23:14 Pyloss wrote:
We need more green maps! I enjoyed Ohana way to mutch just because it was green - and no new green map incoming...
and also, the one map which is not from Blizzard is b far the best..:D green you say? http://imgur.com/a/Ac8r7 Yes, that looks fun to play on, and the deep green gives a positive mindset! This in the pool would made me happy.
Ohana, Tal'Darim Altar, Shattered Temple, Jungle Basin, Steppes of War, Bel'shir beach. #ZenPool #PylossDreampool
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Vaani = Habitation station?
Inferno = Metropolis?
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none of these maps stand out as a fair one, hard to take 3rds and if 3rd can be secured maps will be easy to split.
To me it looks as if next season will be a choo choo train season.
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how these new maps help zergs because zerg underperforming right now.
Didnt blizzard says they will ballance zerg with better maps?
What a joke again...
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I read these comments, and wonder how many people have actually played them? Or just read the op, looked at the pics and commented?
They're still not up on EU too. Said the same 13 hours ago!
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i see alot of effort went into those maps, at least 5 minutes for concept and 2 minutes for aesthetics.
a big fat fucking fuck you blizzard - sincerely the mapmaking community
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 20 2014 00:24 fruity. wrote:
I read these comments, and wonder how many people have actually played them? Or just read the op, looked at the pics and commented?
They're still not up on EU too. Said the same 13 hours ago!
Based on the comments in this thread, the only people that have played it are me and SGTK. >.>
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On December 20 2014 00:40 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:24 fruity. wrote:
I read these comments, and wonder how many people have actually played them? Or just read the op, looked at the pics and commented?
They're still not up on EU too. Said the same 13 hours ago! Based on the comments in this thread, the only people that have played it are me and SGTK. >.>
And we really didn't try out Inferno Pools or Vaani very much, might have to do that more today.
Also, people should note: even though it's big, 10pool/bane works on Inferno because Templar doesn't wall. as terran.
Also, my and KodHH played a fantastic ZvZ in Secret Spring, which I lost cause I forgot to inject >_<
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On December 19 2014 23:31 helius788 wrote:
I feel like the new maps favour Zerg the most tbh (not sure about Inferno, but the other 3 ones).
What do u guys think?
I think Terran again, but we'll see.
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Vaani Research Station in a nutshell
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4wfKLvR.jpg)
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On December 20 2014 01:06 Big J wrote:Vaani Research Station in a nutshell
Nice try but the Xel Naga tower on the right didn't need to be crossed out, there's a xel naga tower at the exact same spot on Vaani Research Station
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At least they made Jungle Basin 2.0 not have a blinkable gap into the pocket expo.
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I don't get people's surprise at the choices for which maps to remove. They kicked out the older maps that have been in the pool for 2 seasons and have been completely figured out plus the one with the horribly broken winrate stats and kept the newer ones. That's in line with what they did the last few times.
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On December 20 2014 00:40 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:24 fruity. wrote:
I read these comments, and wonder how many people have actually played them? Or just read the op, looked at the pics and commented?
They're still not up on EU too. Said the same 13 hours ago! Based on the comments in this thread, the only people that have played it are me and SGTK. >.>
Test things before speaking?
Muhahaha looser, we far superior to this. A blink of a map is enough for us to see everything. We can figure every timing, every engagement for every army compostion in any match up. It's not even that we're processing it, we KNOW it, we directly read the matrix, dude.
We're actually so good that we are forced to not make ourt own maps, cause they would be so cool the entire world would stop living and play the game 24/7. So we can only give hints to Blizzard on how bad they are so that one day, maybe, from reading our comments, they can finally getter better... still far inferior to us, but just a tad closer to decent.
Testing? we're not bloody peasants!
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On December 20 2014 00:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 00:40 The_Templar wrote:On December 20 2014 00:24 fruity. wrote:
I read these comments, and wonder how many people have actually played them? Or just read the op, looked at the pics and commented?
They're still not up on EU too. Said the same 13 hours ago! Based on the comments in this thread, the only people that have played it are me and SGTK. >.> And we really didn't try out Inferno Pools or Vaani very much, might have to do that more today. Also, people should note: even though it's big, 10pool/bane works on Inferno because Templar doesn't wall. as terran. Also, my and KodHH played a fantastic ZvZ in Secret Spring, which I lost cause I forgot to inject >_<
gotta try 10 pool bane vs MVPMK I guess
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I'm gonna reserve judgement on these. Secret Spring and Expedition Lost look really different, Vaani looks nice and zerg friendly
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The lighting on Vaani Research Station is atrocious. waaaay too bright.
Please fix it so I can test it
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"we want to buff underperforming zerg race with better maps"...continues to introduce island map with island directly beneath your natural = 3rd CC builds being completely broken. funny blizzard but i dont even care anymore. maybe they will make lotv into a good game with big changes to economy, P and Z (T is already in a fine state).
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Inferno pools looks like a map that should be banned in Europe. Unless you want to cure insomnia.
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On December 20 2014 03:47 andrewlt wrote:
Inferno pools looks like a map that should be banned in Europe. Unless you want to cure insomnia.
...huh?
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On December 20 2014 03:51 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:47 andrewlt wrote:
Inferno pools looks like a map that should be banned in Europe. Unless you want to cure insomnia. ...huh?
I think he is saying that the map will be a SH map and everyone will fall asleep after 3h of SH vs Colossus/tanks/other SH. SH strategies being mostly popular in europe.
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All of them (the new maps) have high yield minerals. Wow.
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Overgrowth is the new daybreak - too good for its own good.
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United States97276 Posts
Oh wait this is wcs. Cool
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On December 20 2014 06:20 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 03:51 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 20 2014 03:47 andrewlt wrote:
Inferno pools looks like a map that should be banned in Europe. Unless you want to cure insomnia. ...huh? I think he is saying that the map will be a SH map and everyone will fall asleep after 3h of SH vs Colossus/tanks/other SH. SH strategies being mostly popular in europe.
Bo9 showmatch Snute vs hrmmm Mana, I guess. I'm not familiar on who currently is the most turtle-y European protoss.
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Lost Expididition looks terrible, dunno how so many upvotes. PS- I swear I saw a vod on this map like the other day.
The narrow pathways in the center area are too narrow, and they contain gold bases.
Protoss and Terran can take this as a third and just wall it off on your side and keep their army on the other side ready to move around easily from there.
I don't think people realize the center is all high ground and the outside is the low.
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Secret Spring actually looks quite good and interesting. The only gripe I have with the map is that it hasn't really decided what it is. If I were to change the map, I would add a 2nd layer of D-Rocks, either right next to the splitting ones, or near the narrow spot by the gold. Then remove the d-rocks on the other base. I Don't really understand the purpose of having those there anyway, like the gold base is basically in the same location and nearly just as safe and has no d-rocks.
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Vaani station reminds me of destination, without the good features that made the map interesting. Not really a fan of those 'floating' bases that are just scattered in the center of the map. However, since the map is so wide open, might actually be better for zerg on the contrary of what it normally means. The designer probably should have pushed the 2 blue bases to the right more, and then moved that gold base off of the direct path to the opponent. Like who the hell is going to be able to take that base? It's useless.
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Inferno pools, much like it's name is simply generic. Not sure if the spawns are locked to diagonol, but the 3rd seems really bad in the rotational symmetery game. It would force you to take the less safe gold base, which also has less minerals overall. And the islands are just asking for triple CC terran builds. I guess zerg will be forced to do muta or nydus builds every time, and protoss will have to go warp prism asap.
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On December 19 2014 11:06 The_Templar wrote:Update: As terran in the top right of Secret Spring, you can't wall properly at all -_- + Show Spoiler +]
I think they should just add some doodads there so it looks like they help wall.
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After calming down (forced by a nice ban) I tested the maps :
- Expedition Lost seems excellent. The flow looks pretty OK, I don't like the fact the golds barely ever come into play but overall I like it. I especially like how tiny the bases are compared to what the modern standard has it.
- Secret Spring is a joke. The third is impossible to defend ; the main is so vulnerable to blink it's laughable. I don't even know how someone with a brain can come up with such a map.
- Vaani looks like a nice replacement to Overgrowth. Same remark as for Expedition Lost ; the main-natural setup isn't too huge, which pleases me.
- Inferno Pools... Well. Huge map with very hard to take third, strange island... To the dustbin alongside Secret Spring.
Overall I'll probably play Foxtrot Labs, Expedition Lost, Vaani and another map I won't have any pleasure to play. Not too bad, but I wish they'd scrap Secret Spring/Deadwing/Inferno Pools for an actually interesting map (or for the return of Overgrowth !). There is still time to give us a good map pool, Blizzard.
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Secret Spring seems to be gone from the list of custom maps. A sign of hope ? Considering it was a very bad map with obvious balance problems a toddler could envision -blink, impossible third, main-natural-third setup too vulnerable to drops/airplay- maybe they came to their senses and are reworking the map / removing it for something better.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 23 2014 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Secret Spring seems to be gone from the list of custom maps. A sign of hope ? Considering it was a very bad map with obvious balance problems a toddler could envision -blink, impossible third, main-natural-third setup too vulnerable to drops/airplay- maybe they came to their senses and are reworking the map / removing it for something better.
I still see it...
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On December 23 2014 03:29 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2014 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Secret Spring seems to be gone from the list of custom maps. A sign of hope ? Considering it was a very bad map with obvious balance problems a toddler could envision -blink, impossible third, main-natural-third setup too vulnerable to drops/airplay- maybe they came to their senses and are reworking the map / removing it for something better. I still see it...
When I search it on AM/KR/EU all I get is two versions by RayBreeder and a SALT version, not the Blizzard one. Do you see the Blizzard version ?
Edit : I still see the Blizzard versions of the other maps.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 23 2014 03:30 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2014 03:29 The_Templar wrote:On December 23 2014 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Secret Spring seems to be gone from the list of custom maps. A sign of hope ? Considering it was a very bad map with obvious balance problems a toddler could envision -blink, impossible third, main-natural-third setup too vulnerable to drops/airplay- maybe they came to their senses and are reworking the map / removing it for something better. I still see it... When I search it on AM/KR/EU all I get is two versions by RayBreeder and a SALT version, not the Blizzard one. Do you see the Blizzard version ? Edit : I still see the Blizzard versions of the other maps.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qlcOBHs.png)
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OK... Problem on my side it seems. Talk about false hope
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I havent been able to find secret spring at all, have played the others, dont like Infero, do like Vaani, expedition lost is ok.
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Although i would like to have seen more community maps, it's not like i'm pissed about the maps that blizzard made. Only thing that i really noticed was that the gold bases didn't really add anything to the standard strategy. On Habitation, taking the gold as the 3rd or the 4th as a Terran changed what your overall goal was; in these maps it's just kinda like a late game boost to income.
Foxtrot Labs
I'm almost 100% certain that it is only 1 spawn location because every pro game I've seen is top left vs bottom right, however i may still be wrong. I do have this vetoed because of the funky games that I've played on it. In this map pool, however, it seems to fit, that may just be my Zergy bias though.
Catallena LE
I can definitely see how Protoss hate this map against Terran, but personally ZvT doesn't shake out too terribly. All that's really needed is overlords to watch for drops and creep spread out to 4-5 bases. Otherwise, it's just a standard play style map.
Expedition Lost
Surprisingly, despite what everyone else is saying, i think this is going to be my only ban. It's just an icky feeling having destructible rocks to my main in a place that's pretty hard to creep up. If there weren't any rocks back there, it's still an enormous main base, could probably hold 2 bases in it ( again, zerg doesn't like massive mains )
Secret Spring
I haven't played on this map yet, so my opinion could be screwed a bunch. This map seems to favor, by a massive amount, for Swarmhost + Mech + Turtle-y Protoss styles, and while i do enjoy seeing mech and swarmhost, it doesn't seem like any other style is viable.
Vaani Research Station
Again, what is that gold base doing over there? On Habitation it did something. The map seems extremely easy to split with tanks + the in base natural seems very easy to drop.
Inferno Pools
I don't actually understand all the hate that people are giving this map, i mean, even if it's a bad big map, it's not a cancerous blob that stabbed your mother and ate your dog. I'm pretty sure that cross-spawn isn't going to be forced here, however, if it isn't, then mech in top vs top or bottom vs bottom could possibly be used vs zerg. Not sure how zerg can attack into an island base without mutas (put 1-2 thors there, and it's a free base.) Top vs Bottom seems pretty good, plays out like Entombed Valley.
Deadwing LE
Only problem i had with this was the terran siege tank drop behind the corridor and shelling away at the natural. However, that was a pretty easy fix with making a few more early lings and focusing the rocks down. I enjoy this map, but again, i really like big macro maps :3
Basically, it's really hard to see what strategies are going to be used and which aren't and it's way too early to claim that Blizzard is ruining Sc2. Just have to wait and play on them for a few weeks to see how balanced or unbalanced certain maps are.
(But yes Sputnik + OutBoxer + Emerald Plaza + Overgrowth instead of Foxtrot Labs would have been better, but it's not the end of the world that it didn't happen)
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On December 24 2014 21:07 FrZnPlox wrote:
Secret Spring
I haven't played on this map yet, so my opinion could be screwed a bunch. This map seems to favor, by a massive amount, for Swarmhost + Mech + Turtle-y Protoss styles
You can't be serious?... Open that map. Really.
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Looks like a solid set of new maps, excited to start playing on them! Expedition Lost looks like a very cool map, should have a lot of interesting games on it.
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Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most.
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most.
Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_-
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On December 30 2014 07:23 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most. Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_- well isn't that just great... you'd think they'd never allow another map in the map pool that was so blinkable after those several months of blink-allin's.
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On December 30 2014 08:18 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 07:23 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most. Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_- well isn't that just great... you'd think they'd never allow another map in the map pool that was so blinkable after those several months of blink-allin's.
who would've thought having maps solve blink was a bad idea 
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On December 24 2014 21:10 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 21:07 FrZnPlox wrote:
Secret Spring
I haven't played on this map yet, so my opinion could be screwed a bunch. This map seems to favor, by a massive amount, for Swarmhost + Mech + Turtle-y Protoss styles You can't be serious?... Open that map. Really.
Yeah, once you actually play the map and realize how the layout is done, you just leave the game and think "OK, one veto gone".
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On December 30 2014 08:20 Meavis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 08:18 StasisField wrote:On December 30 2014 07:23 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most. Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_- well isn't that just great... you'd think they'd never allow another map in the map pool that was so blinkable after those several months of blink-allin's. who would've thought having maps solve blink was a bad idea
Actually it's just that the meta that changed. Which is the reason why you don't see blink all in anymore even in maps like catallena where it's really good.
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Man, not looking forward to these. I really don't like Deadwing, and haven't played much of Foxtrot Labs. I'm sort of okay with Catalena as at least I know where I can take a third at, and have some clue as to a fourth.
Expedition Lost looks like a mighty fine map for a 2-base all-in, especially a Soultrain. Might be playable; I'll have to get out there and try it out. Not certain where I'll put my third.
Secret Spring looks dreadful. I'm a Protoss player, and I can already taste the thousands of frustrated tears of people trying to handle Blink play there. I'm normally okay with a glass or two of my enemy's tears (refreshing!) but this will be a tidal wave. Also, I don't think anyone look at this yet, but would it be possible for a tank to go on that long, thin land behind the natural and bombard workers?
Vaani Research Station looks playable. At least I know where I'll go for a third, and the backdoor natural is a twist. There's a lot of air space for drops there.
Inferno Pools looks like a dull macro map I'll have to play. Maybe walling off the far side of the Gold for third base? The third 'normal' base looks like hell with that gigantic ramp you could never choke off. EDIT: Remembered the island. That'll be either base 3 or 4, then try for the gold.
So my Vetos: Deadwing (zzz); Secret Spring, and Foxtrot Labs.
Playing: Inferno Pools, Vaani Research Station, Catalena, Expedition Lost
Upsetting that I have to veto two of the same maps from last standard season.
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On December 30 2014 09:46 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 08:20 Meavis wrote:On December 30 2014 08:18 StasisField wrote:On December 30 2014 07:23 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most. Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_- well isn't that just great... you'd think they'd never allow another map in the map pool that was so blinkable after those several months of blink-allin's. who would've thought having maps solve blink was a bad idea Actually it's just that the meta that changed. Which is the reason why you don't see blink all in anymore even in maps like catallena where it's really good.
No, if see Catallena and KSS (specially KSS) theres a lot of blink play, on KSS is pretty damn undefendable, I know a more protoss friendly map pool was the point but having such good blink map is just a bad idea
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So Nathanias brought Kappa Starleague back and did a bo7 between Ryung and Hyun and HyuN just showed how a 7rr will just kill a terran on horizontal spawns on Inferno Pools... I fear if they keep those spawns enabled.
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On December 30 2014 17:52 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
So Nathanias brought Kappa Starleague back and did a bo7 between Ryung and Hyun and HyuN just showed how a 7rr will just kill a terran on horizontal spawns on Inferno Pools... I fear if they keep those spawns enabled.
Could you post a link to the VoDs?
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Mexico674 Posts
I find it weird that the GSL will use it, but not the other WCS tournaments or the ladder. Is Blizzard maybe adding a new 5th map, or replacing one of the previosuly announced ones?
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On December 30 2014 21:30 DARKING wrote:I find it weird that the GSL will use it, but not the other WCS tournaments or the ladder. Is Blizzard maybe adding a new 5th map, or replacing one of the previosuly announced ones?
Blizzard won't change their stance, GSL is simply using a different map pool which is apparently okay, if only foreign tournaments would adopt this.
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On December 30 2014 09:46 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2014 08:20 Meavis wrote:On December 30 2014 08:18 StasisField wrote:On December 30 2014 07:23 The_Templar wrote:On December 30 2014 07:15 StasisField wrote:
Is it possible to blink from the third into the main on Inferno Pools? If so, I think the map is probably going to be vetoed by most. Blizzard added a little path to make sure it was easy to do so, actually. -_- well isn't that just great... you'd think they'd never allow another map in the map pool that was so blinkable after those several months of blink-allin's. who would've thought having maps solve blink was a bad idea Actually it's just that the meta that changed. Which is the reason why you don't see blink all in anymore even in maps like catallena where it's really good. I actually do blink builds all the time on catallena, as does parting and a few others out there. People are just terrified of widow mines, so they don't risk it, but as parting showed vs flash on that map, you can execute a blink all-in vs widow mines and still win
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
fuck me why does blizzard keep trying to make maps.
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Still no updates? They can't seriously keep those horrors, not a single one of those additions is playable
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That's much better looking than anything else. Looks like it could favor some macro play (bases look a bit defensible), but the rush distance is close enough to let aggression happen.
I'm assuming the name is Impregnable, and that cross positions are forced.
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Watched a PvT on Secret Spring and its disgusting how bad it is for toss
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so is gsl going to stick with the last season map pool and this map or new season maps with this added, havent subbed to gsl so cant really watch so idk.
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On January 12 2015 09:16 rotta wrote:
New maps are live in EU!
On ladder?
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On January 12 2015 09:35 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On ladder?
Yes.
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On January 12 2015 09:36 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 09:35 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On January 12 2015 09:16 rotta wrote:
New maps are live in EU! On ladder? Yes.
Sweet, you'd think there'd be a blog post or something by blizzard about it though
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Canada13386 Posts
On January 12 2015 09:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 09:36 rotta wrote:On January 12 2015 09:35 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On January 12 2015 09:16 rotta wrote:
New maps are live in EU! On ladder? Yes. Sweet, you'd think there'd be a blog post or something by blizzard about it though
Its the new season date so ofc the maps start?
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I quite like expedition lost, but the other additions are absolutely horrifying.
Secret Spring - Rush distance is so incredibly short. Zerg are going to have the hardest time holding any 3rd base. Terran pushes with mines down the middle and fortifying push positions is super strong, and protoss can hold chokes like there's no tomorrow. Blink and reapers are ridiculous. The whole map feels like amateur hour.
Vaani Research Station - Rush distance is now so incredibly long. Map architecture is wide open, with not much to write home about. Its a weird, safe, bland map which leaves me puzzled as to what they're trying to achieve with it.
Inferno Pools - Horizontal spawns need to go. Nightmare to play TvT on because of backdoor sieges, and vertical spawns mean that its hard for any race to hold a 3rd base, although terran likely have a reasonable time with the island. Gold bases (like on foxtrot) are ridiculously hard to hold. Its a massive map designed for macro (according to blizzard) but imbalanced spawn positions will make it incredibly hard to actually play macro games.
Meanwhile we have great community maps, better maps in the GSL pool and talented map makers being ignored. Blizzard have a philosophy for ladder play and map design that isn't working. Community sentiment is mostly negative - hopefully they listen and we have changes this season and a big overhaul for the next.
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As for the 3v3 maps (pretty much the only thing I play) Aftermath is utther shit while Hills of Peshkov is meh. Aftermath replaced a map I already had on veto so no biggie there but Peshkow replaced Shadow Reactor that was single base for all with a 2+1 base layout. While it's not as bad as shared it's most likely utter shit and depending on the race that get the solo base things might get weird. But I should not knock it until I've tried it I guess. I just dont like the step in the direction of more and more shared bases. I hate shared bases so fucking much. I want solo bases with choke instead of ramp but nooo, blizz has to make it impossible to counter when you get attacked.
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oh fuck, now I gotta play Deadwing
oh god, they are even worse than they looked like. Oh fuck, this is so bad.
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vaani seems like it could be interesting, lings are able to block the bridge and prevent hellions from harassing and slowing down a lot of things.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jYwO7yV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e3zth3i.jpg)
well this will be fun
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All new maps are absolutely awful except vaani wich is kinda acceptable. This is pathetic.
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Canada8157 Posts
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Those new maps are... horrible. Wont bother explaining more since many posters are already spot on. But so many different match ups and spawns just seem to be extremly broken.
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here's an album for the new team maps
http://imgur.com/a/fPlh9
personal thoughts as mapmaker and high ranked teams player below
+ Show Spoiler +wolfe industries compound
size 174x172
overal not to bad, but the huge size of the main/nat setup will probably make this an extreme pain to play macro.
desert refuge
size 158x188
very bright lighting, not pleasant to play on.
seems to be a step in the right direction, distance from main to nat will make early oracles/drops and later on mutalisks an absolute pest to deal with.
normal bases in the middle are a bit questionable and seem to be harder to take than the golds.
aftermath
size 194x188
every single main is cannonrushable from the low ground, if you played teams in higher ranks, you know exactly just how broken this is.
giant chasm shielding the nats from the mid make the corner bases impossible to take without risking losing the main, it's about as easy for the attacker to move around it as it is for the defender.
hills of peshkov
size 140x188
again super bright and not pleasant to play on.
while there seem to be little issues, you're right in the face of your opponent and games will probably shorter than usual.
blackfrost extraction
size 230x172
super laggy, this probably has to do with the extreme ammount of weather doodads.
2/4 mains cannonrushable from low ground again
the giant chasm will make sure only 2/4 people on your team will ever secure a natural without losing your main base
scoria reactor
size 204x196
1/4 mains cannonrushable from low ground
later expands seem to be in a somewhat awkward spot, but outside of that should actualy be one of the better maps, only problem might be its size.
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I played all 4 new maps. Lost Expedition is under average and rest are extremely horrible. Biggest unpleasure are the lightings as the mappool previously, I thought they learned that lessons?!.
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Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible.
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On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible.
suprisingly enough 4 years later there are still no improvents GJ blizz, maybe ©Soon™?
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On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible.
Blizzard maps are so terrible than every tournament use them and pros never really bothered complaining about them (except when the map was terribly broken like Daedalus point). You are just hating on blizzard because it's cool.
I feel like a lot of people overestimate how the maps impact the game. Sure some are aweful/imbalanced, some are correct and some are good but a map won't make the game suddenly awesome and save #esports.
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On January 12 2015 21:32 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible. Blizzard maps are so terrible than every tournament use them and pros never really bothered complaining about them (except when the map was terribly broken like Daedalus point). You are just hating on blizzard because it's cool. I feel like a lot of people overestimate how the maps impact the game. Sure some are aweful/imbalanced, some are correct and some are good but a map won't make the game suddenly awesome and save #esports.
It's not about making the game awesome and save #esports. That's for the game design to take care of. But the maps are what we can change currently. And Blizzard's maps are boring, bad or both at the same time. U as a map maker should have noticed that by now.
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On January 12 2015 21:32 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible. Blizzard maps are so terrible than every tournament use them and pros never really bothered complaining about them (except when the map was terribly broken like Daedalus point). You are just hating on blizzard because it's cool.
the fact tournament organizers and pros don't care about maps doesn't mean blizzard cares.
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I will just ask right here, whats to point to be StarCraft 2 community mapmaker?
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shit maps. thats all i can say. i feel disgusted that they still keep someone to do maps when he/she was clearly hired because he knew someone there and not because he/she is good at the work.
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C'mon Vaani is Newkirk just fliped 90decrees. Now let the SH flow on that map.
Only map i liked on the new maps i expedition lost, the rocks kind of make it intence if you forget to watch them. but yea, community maps all the way *nods*
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Secret Spiring is the only good map. I love the rock towers <3
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Trying hard to find a reason not to veto Inferno pools as terran. Seems like a very annoying map to play
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On January 12 2015 21:32 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible. Blizzard maps are so terrible than every tournament use them and pros never really bothered complaining about them (except when the map was terribly broken like Daedalus point). You are just hating on blizzard because it's cool. I feel like a lot of people overestimate how the maps impact the game. Sure some are aweful/imbalanced, some are correct and some are good but a map won't make the game suddenly awesome and save #esports.
Can't do much about the maps of you want to give wcs points
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From my limited experience with Secret Spring, I can't imagine that this map won't be veto'd by almost everyone.
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On January 12 2015 23:49 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2015 21:32 algue wrote:On January 12 2015 21:06 Za7oX wrote:
Blizzard don't give a fuck about SC.
We have been saying since 2010 let the pro's test the maps before you put them on ladder and let other people make the maps because 90% of blizzard maps are terrible. Blizzard maps are so terrible than every tournament use them and pros never really bothered complaining about them (except when the map was terribly broken like Daedalus point). You are just hating on blizzard because it's cool. I feel like a lot of people overestimate how the maps impact the game. Sure some are aweful/imbalanced, some are correct and some are good but a map won't make the game suddenly awesome and save #esports. Can't do much about the maps of you want to give wcs points
They didn't care before WCS points were a thing. Also, the GSL uses Iron Fortress which isn't a ladder map but they still give WCS points so it seems that WCS points aren't an excuse to use ladder maps only.
On January 12 2015 22:44 PharaphobiaSC2 wrote:
I will just ask right here, whats to point to be StarCraft 2 community mapmaker?
It's like drawing but instead you are making maps.
--
Imo the main problem with these maps (including mine obviously) is that if there's an obvious imbalance, Blizzard won't move a finger to try to fix it or at least reduce it (remember how long it took to decrease the size of Daedalus Point ramp in front of the natural). Lowering or increasing the HP of a rock, Increasing or lowering the size of a ramp, changing a gold base into a blue base ou vice versa, placing a destructible plate on a base (especially golds) to nerf the gangnam terran strat etc. can totally change the way a map is played but Blizzard never does that (Valve does on CS:GO and it's awesome).
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So, what maps are you Zergs vetoing?
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Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol
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Secret Spring and Inferno pools are such troll maps xD
Secret Spring could be playable in a TvZ, but TvP? no way
And Inferno pools depends so much on the spawning position, it's crazy! Horizontal it's great for Terran. The other spawns are good for Zergs.
Vaani and Expedition are good/okay so far, I think.
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As I expected, I'm enjoying Expedition Lost and Vaani a lot. Especially Vaani. I'm not particularly enjoying Inferno Pools, but I guess it's alright for a bland macro map. I'd probably be absolutely hating Secret Spring if I had ever tried anything other than SH turtle on it, but so far, I've won every game on it, so I guess I'm alright with it until I stop winning.
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Playing against terran is going to make me feel even sicker than now. awesome.
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your Country52797 Posts
On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol
Ask the mapmaker, he was the one who put the rocks in the original version.
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Gonna be another season of awful zerg maps...
Thanks for that help David Kim
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On January 13 2015 01:32 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
Gonna be another season of awful zerg maps...
Thanks for that help David Kim
Awful as in imba against Z?
I see some pretty redeeming factors!
So many people are always so quick to jump to conclusions. How can you determine in one day of play that a map is shit and sucks and fucked up and Zerg so underpowered never gonna win etc blalalal?
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On January 13 2015 01:37 SC2Toastie wrote:
How can you determine in one day of play that a map is shit and sucks and fucked up [...]?
It's much easier than u think: Some maps are so bad that u just have to look at them. I call these "honest maps". At least they don't try to hide how "fucked up" they are. They just say: "Hey, look! I am just horrible! I don't recommend playing on me."
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your Country52797 Posts
On January 13 2015 01:55 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:37 SC2Toastie wrote:
How can you determine in one day of play that a map is shit and sucks and fucked up [...]? It's much easier than u think: Some maps are so bad that u just have to look at them. I call these "honest maps". At least they don't try to hide how "fucked up" they are. They just say: "Hey, look! I am just horrible! I don't recommend playing on me."
Just like Entombed Valley and Antiga Shipyard were?
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I think those maps are cool. We kept the old ones for tooo long.
I always prefer smaller main bases as terran, although my buildingplacement sucks.
+ Show Spoiler +1. Drops in the mineral line are better ! Protoss will struggle to reach their own mineral line, because they block with own buildings, army will block itself !
2. DoubleD" Doom Drops" getting worse, some of the catallena drops could not even unload on the new maps, also they get spotted easily and early.
3. Less Turrets to build
4. Less room for the Blinkball to run around !
Also the maps feature "I will Blink in here" ledges which is quite comfortable
+ Ultras have a nice day without so much interfering ramps and sh*t
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On January 13 2015 01:37 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:32 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
Gonna be another season of awful zerg maps...
Thanks for that help David Kim Awful as in imba against Z? I see some pretty redeeming factors! So many people are always so quick to jump to conclusions. How can you determine in one day of play that a map is shit and sucks and fucked up and Zerg so underpowered never gonna win etc blalalal?
Inbase expo's? plz...
Inferno and secret springs are just horrid, you dont even have to play on them to see that.
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I am disguisted by this mappool. This is close to #dreampool crap. Last seasons one was much better.
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On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol
The backdoor with rocks was not added, it was there since the beginning. I'd be interested to know why you would immediately veto a map with a backdoor in the natural ? It looks like a knee-jerk reaction more than well thought out decision.
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On January 13 2015 02:11 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol The backdoor with rocks was not added, it was there since the beginning. I'd be interested to know why you would immediately veto a map with a backdoor in the natural ? It looks like a knee-jerk reaction more than well thought out decision.
Because it's a backdoor in the main...
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On January 13 2015 02:11 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol The backdoor with rocks was not added, it was there since the beginning. I'd be interested to know why you would immediately veto a map with a backdoor in the natural ? It looks like a knee-jerk reaction more than well thought out decision.
because people just come and shout their rage on TL these days. Really don't bother the opinion of someone vetoing a map without testing it.
(nice map btw dude)
On January 13 2015 02:11 JanDe wrote:
I am disguisted by this mappool. This is close to #dreampool crap. Last seasons one was much better.
Season 3 2014 map pool had a lot of flaws, most people thinking it was too heavily terran favored. Waiting a couple of weeks to see how these maps actually turns out to be before having such a strong opininon might be a better idea.
People keep talking about how the community has to be leading the way maps are designed, but seriously, reading this thread, the first thing would be to have the community become more relevant in their opinion...
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On January 13 2015 02:24 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 02:11 algue wrote:On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol The backdoor with rocks was not added, it was there since the beginning. I'd be interested to know why you would immediately veto a map with a backdoor in the natural ? It looks like a knee-jerk reaction more than well thought out decision. because people just come and shout their rage on TL these days. Really don't bother the opinion of someone vetoing a map without testing it. (nice map btw dude) Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 02:11 JanDe wrote:
I am disguisted by this mappool. This is close to #dreampool crap. Last seasons one was much better. Season 3 2014 map pool had a lot of flaws, most people thinking it was too heavily terran favored. Waiting a couple of weeks to see how these maps actually turns out to be before having such a strong opininon might be a better idea. People keep talking about how the community has to be leading the way maps are designed, but seriously, reading this thread, the first thing would be to have the community become more relevant in their opinion...
Uh they were quite terran favored tbh
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On January 13 2015 03:00 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 02:11 algue wrote:On January 13 2015 00:41 Psychobabas wrote:
Expedition Lost:
Why the fuck did they add the backdoor rocks?
Vetoed immediately lol The backdoor with rocks was not added, it was there since the beginning. I'd be interested to know why you would immediately veto a map with a backdoor in the natural? It looks like a knee-jerk reaction more than well thought out decision. Even when you perfectly execute a bad idea, it will remain a bad idea...
But why is it a bad idea then ?
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Mexico674 Posts
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on second thought i dont just hate playing against T on most of these maps, i actually just hate you,blizzard
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On January 13 2015 02:24 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 02:11 JanDe wrote:
I am disguisted by this mappool. This is close to #dreampool crap. Last seasons one was much better. Season 3 2014 map pool had a lot of flaws, most people thinking it was too heavily terran favored. Waiting a couple of weeks to see how these maps actually turns out to be before having such a strong opininon might be a better idea. People keep talking about how the community has to be leading the way maps are designed, but seriously, reading this thread, the first thing would be to have the community become more relevant in their opinion...
Season 3 2014 map pool may have been flawed, but it was a step in the right direction, the majority of balance issues on those maps came after balance changes, so that wasn't all that suprising.
also it really depends on who you refer to with "the community", ofcourse some randoms might fuck it up, but you can also pick a bunch of knowledgable people from the community that know what they're doing.
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On January 12 2015 20:49 Meavis wrote:+ Show Spoiler +here's an album for the new team maps http://imgur.com/a/fPlh9personal thoughts as mapmaker and high ranked teams player below + Show Spoiler +wolfe industries compound
size 174x172
overal not to bad, but the huge size of the main/nat setup will probably make this an extreme pain to play macro.
desert refuge
size 158x188
very bright lighting, not pleasant to play on.
seems to be a step in the right direction, distance from main to nat will make early oracles/drops and later on mutalisks an absolute pest to deal with.
normal bases in the middle are a bit questionable and seem to be harder to take than the golds.
aftermath
size 194x188
every single main is cannonrushable from the low ground, if you played teams in higher ranks, you know exactly just how broken this is.
giant chasm shielding the nats from the mid make the corner bases impossible to take without risking losing the main, it's about as easy for the attacker to move around it as it is for the defender.
hills of peshkov
size 140x188
again super bright and not pleasant to play on.
while there seem to be little issues, you're right in the face of your opponent and games will probably shorter than usual.
blackfrost extraction
size 230x172
super laggy, this probably has to do with the extreme ammount of weather doodads.
2/4 mains cannonrushable from low ground again
the giant chasm will make sure only 2/4 people on your team will ever secure a natural without losing your main base
scoria reactor
size 204x196
1/4 mains cannonrushable from low ground
later expands seem to be in a somewhat awkward spot, but outside of that should actualy be one of the better maps, only problem might be its size.
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These new maps are total BS. F** inbase naturals, small mains and Deadwing clones.
Blizzard. This is not even funny.
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Expedition Lost
It is an interesting map for sure. I kind of like it in PvZ.
I thought the non-behind-rocks-third looked far away, but it doesn't feel like it during the games I've played.
PvT; proxy oracles into 3gate with void feels kind of stupidly strong.
Secret Spring
So far I have not enjoyed it at all. It doesn't even look good, tile set wise.
Vaani Research Station
Could be a good map, Terrans feels very strong on it though. Zergs are going to struggle.
That weird tint annoys me however. Almost like someone turned up my gamma or something.
Why would you add that fog thing? So annoying, might just veto it because of that fact alone.
Inferno Pools
Too big, I'm not a fan of 4 player maps. Deadwing is OK, but Deadwing is only a medium map, not a large map.
I don't understand why Blizzard tries to force certain gameplay by map design, they've done it before and I feel like they just did it again.
They add Secret Spring to force players to play aggressive, the third just feels so off. To compensate they add a huge map to force macro games.
Maps should, in my opinion, be neutral. They should offer both options for aggression and macro.
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I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Expedition Lost - played 1 PvZ, vetoed it, so stupid idiotic map. 3rd is so far away I cannot defend both location at once, so either I go 2 base all in or veto and since I do not play 2 base all ins... jeez...(also back-door rocks)
2 MAPS with inner natural? How on Earth am I supposed to scout T taking natural or doing some 5 rax variation? Glorious, really cool. I can live with 1 as a variation, so I am vetoing SS(pun intended )
Secret Springs - I played only 1 PvZ and it is begging for veto, zerg went to locusts like crazy, really hard to play this style on that map(seriously some reincarnation of Stephano)
Is on Blizzard map team someone sane? Please, please! Let this be the last horrible map pool. I mean we had season 3, then "awesome" #dreampool and now we have THIS?! I bought every SC2 as CE, now I am starting to think it is time to stop buying this stuff... I, as a huge soon-to-be-former fan of Blizzard, am considering illegal downloading of SC2 LotV... WTF happened through 2014? ><
(broken MM does not help with this decision making either)
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Five TvPs, I faced five proxie oracles...
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So I've been laddering for a day, I am somewhat concerned about Inferno Pools being too large (as in, becoming stale) like Alterzim was.
That being said, I do like this trend of reducing the size of the main bases. Makes base management take more attention for P and T!
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On January 13 2015 05:57 Glorfindel! wrote:
Five TvPs, I faced five proxie oracles...
pretty understandable. the maps suck for taking a third as protoss and there are 5 million places to proxy (especially on Secret Spring).
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I'm also gonna state that the huge "macro" map is unplayable in PvZ...
I tried it, but it's too large for proper Immortal all ins and bases are simply undefendable.
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On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos.
Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue)
Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay)
Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy )
Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2)
Plus, in season 3 :
Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak )
Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark )
King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 )
Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl )
be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already.
But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head...
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On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head...
As long as protoss exist, not even the best map makers can make the maps they have in their heads.
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Expedition Lost is probably the worst map ever created. It's literally everything bad in a map. Back rocks to the main, gold bases, super far away 3rd.
Secret Springs just kinda sucks. The third is too far away and I can't understand why.
Vaani is actually pretty good. Am a fan.
If they remove close spawns, Inferno Pools will be okay for the most part. The high ground behind the gold base is pretty fucking lame but eh.
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On January 13 2015 07:29 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Expedition Lost is probably the worst map ever created. It's literally everything bad in a map. Back rocks to the main, gold bases, super far away 3rd..
Yeah. Remember Dreampool?
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On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head...
Well, but this time for the first time in forever blizzard added 3 of their own maps. And not one of them even tried to be a generic map that blizzard is very well capable making. They are all experimental.
It would be much better if they only added 1-2 maps. Or if they at least tried to make one map in which they wanted to get the usual stats like rush distance, air rush distance, first 3base expansion layout, numbers of attack paths, size of attack paths right. They didn't manage that with even just one of their maps.
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On January 13 2015 07:32 AFSpeeDy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 07:29 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Expedition Lost is probably the worst map ever created. It's literally everything bad in a map. Back rocks to the main, gold bases, super far away 3rd.. Yeah. Remember Dreampool?
I would rather any dreampool map than Expedition Lost.
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On January 13 2015 01:37 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 01:32 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
Gonna be another season of awful zerg maps...
Thanks for that help David Kim So many people are always so quick to jump to conclusions. How can you determine in one day of play that a map is shit and sucks and fucked up and Zerg so underpowered never gonna win etc blalalal? If you understand how strategies and engagements work, it's pretty easy to tell big design flaws. Usually certain map feature hugely favors certain strategy (immortal allin, blink allin, aggression against 3rd base ZvP TvP, aggression against 4th TvZ, against 4th 5th PvZ, hiding natural in ingame etc etc). And SC2 is not all around game when you have different map, everything will be changed and still balanced, even very standard game on standard map has imbalances many consider big. Having certain strategies suddenly supercharged doesn't add to balance and asymmetric balance very rarely works in map design ( = I abuse that, you abuse this).
Zerg usually gets short end of stick in maps, they are either abused or the map is balanced (with the exception of open and distant thirds/superopen naturals - Daedalus). Adding features that make immortal allin even stronger or taking 4th against terran twice as risky won't really add gameplay diversity unless one want to see allins more. (<- random examples)
I believe you can make different maps. But adding features "you won't take 3rd/4th in this matchup", "you can't scout that" don't help the game. Anyway I wish we would get 'Overgrowth - Winter Edition' or other things like that. It's one of the few good maps, that's why it stayed for so long.
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I vetoed Secret Spring, Expedition Lost and Inferno Pools. Overall the maps I'll play are decent, but I'm worried about competitive play. I won't be too harsh on Expedition Lost which is quite innovative and takes a lot of risks, but Secret Spring and Inferno Pools are just dreadful. I'd rather play Foxtrot Labs a hundred times.
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Right, so I decided I'd give these a shot on ladder. Holy shit they're terrible. played a couple of games on Vaani Research Station, and Secret Spring, and the old truth stays: Free naturals are a TERRIBLE idea. It's just adding a huge randomness factor into the game. Outside of that the map seems decent, but the free natural base stuff is just terrible.
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the inbase expansions and short rush distance means pvp will have to check both third, natural, and in front of the main for proxies. secret spring is just hilarious on so many levels
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Inferno Pools reminds me of the Dual Sight theme. While I didn't necessarily care for the map that much, I thought aesthetically it looked really neat. All in all I like all these maps though I don't care for Vaani as much as the rest, I think it adds a different element to the map pool and I am fine with that.
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Playing Expedition Lost PvZ is "fun", my zerg opponent took both gold bases as expand, and the game became dietrying. Backdoor rocks are made for allining? Main is very narrow.
Secret spring PvT, come and try to counter mass drop play. 3rd? Forget! :D
Vaani Station looks a bit more promising between all the new maps, and still had few proxy gateways/rax there.
Inferno Pools looks huge, but if I opens with Nexus first vs Z it's pretty damn hard to hold ur natural ramp, which must be blocked by 3 buildings + pylon + zealot. Horizontal spawns should be remowed. All the time zers opens with pool first and I opens with Nexus first, I dies, doesnt matter what spawns are.
Too much cheeses and allins happened today, like every 2nd PvP I see proxygateways on my natural or somewhere around.
Feeling like deadwing is a perfect map in comparison to all these new.
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Holy shit Inferno Pools is terrible. Who even thought this would be even close to acceptable for the 1v1 map pool? That natural is disgusting.
As a Protoss, it's basically a must-veto. You can't even FFE on that map.
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your Country52797 Posts
On January 13 2015 08:56 Lateral wrote:
Holy shit Inferno Pools is terrible. Who even thought this would be even close to acceptable for the 1v1 map pool? That natural is disgusting.
As a Protoss, it's basically a must-veto. You can't even FFE on that map.
Um, I'm pretty sure it's a single double-wide ramp at the natural?
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The new maps are pretty interesting, need to play on them more to see if they are good or bad. I am comfortable saying vaani is the best map introduced in a long time, possibly ever? Also it has an odd number of mines which something that should be tested more often imo. Then again anything would have me excited over the 14 awful maps last season.
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On January 13 2015 09:12 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 08:56 Lateral wrote:
Holy shit Inferno Pools is terrible. Who even thought this would be even close to acceptable for the 1v1 map pool? That natural is disgusting.
As a Protoss, it's basically a must-veto. You can't even FFE on that map. Um, I'm pretty sure it's a single double-wide ramp at the natural?
it's triple wide. Which isn't new, there have been other triple wide ramps without additional blocking through the history of SC2 as far as I remember, quadruple is the big problem.
Still waiting to get SS in TvZ. Can't wait to see what stupid shit I can pull of when I'm allowed to block the whole map with a single barracks or ebay.
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Secret spring will basically be a blink fest in PvT... the main is so pathetic. I think there's never been a main that is so wide and has so much surface for blink.
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I love all of the new maps. I think they are all really great maps. Way better than dream pool + last seasons map pool.
Top master Zerg in all seasons except last season lol.
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I like Vaani the most, I'm undecided on Secret Spring. The inferno map serves no purpose while deadwing is in the pool and I despise Expedition Lost. THere are way too many difficult/impossible thirds for any matchup for some of these maps, and expedition lost feels like it's from 2011 or something.
Overall, vetoeing Secret Spring, Expedition Lost, and Inferno in a week once I get completely sick of them.
On January 13 2015 09:12 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 08:56 Lateral wrote:
Holy shit Inferno Pools is terrible. Who even thought this would be even close to acceptable for the 1v1 map pool? That natural is disgusting.
As a Protoss, it's basically a must-veto. You can't even FFE on that map. Um, I'm pretty sure it's a single double-wide ramp at the natural?
It requires 3 large buildings + a pylon to wall off, it's not FFEable
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Anyone else finding these new maps are laggier when scrolling ? (performance issues with maps)
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Didn't post my thoughts yet so after laddering today I guess I'll do so:
These maps are bad. Not just bad, actually, awful. These are the worst set of maps I've EVER played on since WoL. How is it possible you end up with maps in 2015, nearly 5 years after the game has released, that has back rocks, and moreover, huge ridges especially designed for either reapers, tanks, or blink play etc? How can such hugely positional imbalances exist when we have already moved past this stage of the meta game? @_@;;
Honestly, I'd be a lot more rude about this if I could but it really just kind of boggles my mind. I really don't know how we ended up reverting to such a map pool, especially after having one that was rather T favored vs Protoss.
ugh, shrug and sigh is all I can really say to sum up how I feel about this map pool. If I don't qualify for WCS, which is probably a rather low % chance of happening this week, I really feel like I won't play the game very much at all literally due to this map pool.
It is too frustrating as a protoss player and the game has no feeling of enjoyment on these maps... :/
It is very understandable why so many players, and in specific protoss players, are moving on from the game @_@;;
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What happen if you 2rax on secret spring and block the middle :o
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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On January 13 2015 10:27 las91 wrote:I like Vaani the most, I'm undecided on Secret Spring. The inferno map serves no purpose while deadwing is in the pool and I despise Expedition Lost. THere are way too many difficult/impossible thirds for any matchup for some of these maps, and expedition lost feels like it's from 2011 or something. Overall, vetoeing Secret Spring, Expedition Lost, and Inferno in a week once I get completely sick of them. Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 09:12 The_Templar wrote:On January 13 2015 08:56 Lateral wrote:
Holy shit Inferno Pools is terrible. Who even thought this would be even close to acceptable for the 1v1 map pool? That natural is disgusting.
As a Protoss, it's basically a must-veto. You can't even FFE on that map. Um, I'm pretty sure it's a single double-wide ramp at the natural? It requires 3 large buildings + a pylon to wall off, it's not FFEable
Who s doing FFEs anyway these days?
I mean unless the zerg blindly goes early pool and prays for you are on close position, it should not be much of a problem. At least it should not be much harder than on merry go round or am I missing something?
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Wow, this is the most perfect map pool... The employees at Blizz are truly genius..
Thank you.
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On January 13 2015 17:10 My_Fake_Plastic_Luv wrote:
Wow, this is the most perfect map pool... The employees at Blizz are truly genius..
Thank you.
Yeah I'm a big fan myself. Blizzard clearly loves third bases (sarcasm).
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I hate this "hardcounter" mappool.
Basically Vaani research station is very Z favoured with huge open map they didnt even bother put 2 levels on the map except on the side just to decorate. With almost no terrain to exploit this map feels really boring.
On the other side we have Secret Spring. A lot of narrow chokes and abusive positional play that can be made everywhere with the most narrow choke ever on the middle . clearly T and P favored.
Didn't test Inferno pool so can't say.
Expedition lost is weird but fun.
What do you think guys. Personnally if I were zerg there is no way I want to play on Secret Spring ever.
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On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head...
Hey at least you were snarky in your comment!
Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones)
What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves.
(For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little)
This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool.
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ive only played the new maps once out of the last 4 games. I guess people are starting to veto it
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On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:
Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones)
What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves.
(For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little)
This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool.
Actually Blizzard should hire certain map makers here ... #Ryan Schutter
But giving the decision process into the hands of the map makers is a bad idea. They are not the ones playing it on a high level. Provide the maps and let pros test those. That's all u can and u should do. Unfortunately no pro is testing afaik. Why would they even bother? Why would Blizzard bother?
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On January 13 2015 18:47 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:
Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones)
What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves.
(For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little)
This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. Actually Blizzard should hire certain map makers here ... #Ryan Schutter But giving the decision process into the hands of the map makers is a bad idea. They are not the ones playing it on a high level. Provide the maps and let pros test those. That's all u can and u should do. Unfortunately no pro is testing afaik. Why would they even bother? Why would Blizzard bother?
Maybe they should get like, 10 Koreans and 10 foreigners, and give them a huge selection of maps to choose from (20+?) and have each player "veto" maps, and then see which maps weren't vetoed as much, then use those for the map pool. But that'd be an actually good idea, and it'd show incompetence from Blizzard, so it won't ever happen.
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On January 13 2015 18:47 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:
Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones)
What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves.
(For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little)
This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. Actually Blizzard should hire certain map makers here ... #Ryan Schutter But giving the decision process into the hands of the map makers is a bad idea. They are not the ones playing it on a high level. Provide the maps and let pros test those. That's all u can and u should do. Unfortunately no pro is testing afaik. Why would they even bother? Why would Blizzard bother?
Yeah of course they shouldn't do it in solitude either, working pros is a great idea imho. Map makers pick maps, test it with pros, use feedback from community as well as pros' feedback, propose a pool to Blizzard, Blizzard approves and releases the pool at the new season.
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On January 13 2015 18:52 Blargh wrote:
Maybe they should get like, 10 Koreans and 10 foreigners, and give them a huge selection of maps to choose from (20+?) and have each player "veto" maps, and then see which maps weren't vetoed as much, then use those for the map pool. But that'd be an actually good idea, and it'd show incompetence from Blizzard, so it won't ever happen.
I'd say being aware of ur own incompetence can be considered competence in a way. Haha. I would really be interested in the internal map making squad Blizzard has. But maybe it's just a single person, that is actually doing other stuff and is only being asked to do some random maps shortly before new season. And he sits down one evening and creates some maps while watching talk shows. There u go! That's how it's done! New WCS maps with no balancing issues and bug-free. Why would u even pay someone for that? And when that guy is ill for some reason, just have a look into the community maps. There are enough maps for a century of Sc2 seasons.
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How in god's name do you take a third in TvZ on secret spring when they go muta heavy. I had a ring of turrets and mines in my main and third and its just impossible to maneuver in time.
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On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head... Hey at least you were snarky in your comment! Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones) What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves. (For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little) This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool.
yeah but it's kinda happening already, cause all user created maps that ended in the map pool, from ohanna and Cloud kingdom back in the days, were winners or finalist of various map contests. I dare to sayt that Blizzard is eager to use community made maps. It's not the issue at all.
IMHO, the problem is more about community TESTERS than mapmakers. Cause really we don't test shit. Someone started an initiative to test an alternative map pool during season 4 instead of playing dreampool, we even had a chat channel on the servers to find people to play with. But chat channels were empty. cause nobody really bothered to try this new community made map pool. a handfull of people played them against AI and gave limited feedback and that was it.
Look at the maps section in the forums, it's always the same 10 people commenting, and very rarely new maps are really tested out in relevant 1v1 situations, and I don't even talk about having some Grand masters testing them intensively cause this just never happens.
We can't blame Blizzard for our own mistakes nor for the fact that the community is absolutely unable to test maps.
Therefore, the only actual way to have new alternative maps tested is to have the tournaments create and use them. "Communiy" is BS, only pros playing maps for a reward works as a testing routine. Like it was before WCS system that lock the map pool for every tournament. Ofc one could say this decision from Blizzard is bad, but even then not so many people would come out with new maps, it was almost only the GSL creating new maps (sometimes very bad maps, mind you) and other tournaments choosing from these new maps and the ladder maps.
In conclusion, before blaming Blizzard for not listening community's opinion about maps, we should realize that "our opinion" is not a really relevant concept and we should work more on maps testing and custom games.
For example let's add a small tournament to every community map contest (hopefully the LoTV tournament system will alow this easily) to make sure all maps are actually tested and it's not just people basing their vote on a simple screen shot of the map.
If we want Blizzard to take us seriously, we have to start being serious (again)...
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On January 13 2015 19:12 arcane1129 wrote:
How in god's name do you take a third in TvZ on secret spring when they go muta heavy. I had a ring of turrets and mines in my main and third and its just impossible to maneuver in time.
On this map you're not supposed to take 3rd's at all.
Tbh, the map is a nightmare for zergs not for terrans (at least in TvZ). It's so easy to abuse the little ramp of the main.
But in TvP it's a total nightmare for terrans (unless the toss tries to play standard robo into taking a third, which only dumb tosses would do on such a map)
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On January 13 2015 19:12 arcane1129 wrote:
How in god's name do you take a third in TvZ on secret spring when they go muta heavy. I had a ring of turrets and mines in my main and third and its just impossible to maneuver in time.
You don't take a third. You go allin.
In other words: the map is absolutely fucking terrible
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Thx Blizzard for making no third base in this maps
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Ok, so all my 3 vetoes are gone vetoing 3/4 on the new maps .. And I wish we had a 4th veto. GJ Blizzard.
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On January 13 2015 19:15 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head... Hey at least you were snarky in your comment! Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones) What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves. (For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little) This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. IMHO, the problem is more about community TESTERS than mapmakers. Cause really we don't test shit. Someone started an initiative to test an alternative map pool during season 4 instead of playing dreampool, we even had a chat channel on the servers to find people to play with. But chat channels were empty. cause nobody really bothered to try this new community made map pool. a handfull of people played them against AI and gave limited feedback and that was it. Yes, I did, but as nobody really participated I soon quit putting any attention into it - apparantly nobody was interested in helping the maps in SC2. We'd rather all scream and cry and whine every three months.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On January 14 2015 01:17 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2015 19:15 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head... Hey at least you were snarky in your comment! Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones) What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves. (For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little) This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. IMHO, the problem is more about community TESTERS than mapmakers. Cause really we don't test shit. Someone started an initiative to test an alternative map pool during season 4 instead of playing dreampool, we even had a chat channel on the servers to find people to play with. But chat channels were empty. cause nobody really bothered to try this new community made map pool. a handfull of people played them against AI and gave limited feedback and that was it. Yes, I did, but as nobody really participated I soon quit putting any attention into it - apparantly nobody was interested in helping the maps in SC2. We'd rather all scream and cry and whine every three months.
I completely missed this initiative Maybe front page or sticking it in general would help.
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On January 14 2015 01:44 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:17 SC2Toastie wrote:On January 13 2015 19:15 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head... Hey at least you were snarky in your comment! Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones) What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves. (For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little) This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. IMHO, the problem is more about community TESTERS than mapmakers. Cause really we don't test shit. Someone started an initiative to test an alternative map pool during season 4 instead of playing dreampool, we even had a chat channel on the servers to find people to play with. But chat channels were empty. cause nobody really bothered to try this new community made map pool. a handfull of people played them against AI and gave limited feedback and that was it. Yes, I did, but as nobody really participated I soon quit putting any attention into it - apparantly nobody was interested in helping the maps in SC2. We'd rather all scream and cry and whine every three months. I completely missed this initiative Maybe front page or sticking it in general would help.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/470687-community-map-testing-official-thread
Here is the link.
Selecting maps and typing and OP took me quite some time, but sadly, few people seemed to care. After a couple of days of barely any activity at all I just decided to drop the project - why waste a ton of my time for something nobody cares about?
Fun Fact, I actually selected Expedition Lost as my first map because I thought it was very interesting !
If there is demand for it, I'd happily start the thread up again, but I don't think anybody will join in. It's very easy to complain and shit on things other people try to do, but when asked yourself to contribute in a useful manner, most people prefer not to respond. Which can clearly be seen by the massive amounts of complaints every single time a new map pool comes out.
Some seem to hate on every map that doesn't give use 3 bases defensible from one easily defensible location and a main that is hard to drop properly and few Blink/Reaper locations and straightforward attack and expansion patterns... And if we are not open to innovation and change, we'll always be stuck with poor maps.
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Apparantly there is some interest in it, so people willing to change, participate and contribute to community maps can sing up at the link I provided above!
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I don't know algue but I'm sure of one thing. This guy doesn't like reapers!! Seriously when designing the map he was just checking every cliff on it and rub it with anti jumps rocks on the bottom.
First map ever where I have reapers that can't actually jump in the opponent main and natural and are blocked by my own walls. This map is just a declaration of hate towards reapers.
I don't see the reason for so many anti jump rocks! really! I'm all for limiting cliff abuse but this map has pushed it way too far.
Edit : Reapers so viable sorry you can jump behind the gold base therefore there is a uber midgame reaper transition to get to deny goldbase mining.....
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On January 14 2015 22:07 klup wrote:
I don't know algue but I'm sure of one thing. This guy doesn't like reapers!! Seriously when designing the map he was just checking every cliff on it and rub it with anti jumps rocks on the bottom.
First map ever where I have reapers that can't actually jump in the opponent main and natural and are blocked by my own walls. This map is just a declaration of hate towards reapers.
I don't see the reason for so many anti jump rocks! really! I'm all for limiting cliff abuse but this map has pushed it way too far.
Edit : Reapers so viable sorry you can jump behind the gold base therefore there is a uber midgame reaper transition to get to deny goldbase mining.....
Your first reaper should still get in through the ramp, from there on getting a scout in with a reaper isn't a sure thing on any map. I guess more than 1reaper isn't a great idea here. It's nice that this map has some well thought-out differences.
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I said earlier (in this thread): Oh well, besides Inferno and Secret Spring, the other ones might have potential.
I feel like Expedition needs my Terran veto as well. With these backrocks holding an immortal allin is stupidly hard (*cough* impossible)....gooooosh, even Zergs can exploit the backrocks
Well, and to play Inferno against Z? Forget about thinking of 3 bases...
For all the people who instantly said the maps are bad, I feel like I need to apologise for giving it a try with these maps...*facepalm*
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Expedition Lost would be a very interesting map without these backdoor rocks. I cant believe such a stupid feature would be implemented now in 2015...
Its a shame but as a terran player, i got to veto it because of immortal all ins, proxy oracle into 3g void allin, 2 bases roaches....
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I'm beginning to realize how difficult it is to play on some of these maps, inferno is RIDICULOUS how you can spawn side by side on this map, the rush distance is about the same distance as steppes of war.
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Secret Spring and Inferno Pools are absolutely atrocious. I played some games on them on AM server, you simply can't play a decent game there...
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Horizonal on Inferno Pools is almost as bad as vertical was on Shakuras Plateau. Like it's close enough where I'd consider double expanding there on cross positions.
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After extensive play on some of these maps, I've concluded that the only map that has the potential not to suck massive balls is Vaani Research Labs or whatever. And even then, the map is rather meh. At least it has a viable third base.
All of the others are absolute garbage and should be put on veto. This is coming from a Terran and Zerg player.
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On January 14 2015 01:44 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2015 01:17 SC2Toastie wrote:On January 13 2015 19:15 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 17:54 KeksX wrote:On January 13 2015 07:23 Gwavajuice wrote:On January 13 2015 05:39 KeksX wrote:
I long for the day that Blizzard let's the proven community map makers do their job.
As a Zerg, I request more vetos. Expedition lost : made by community map maker (algue) Catalena : made by community map maker (timmay) Overgrowth : made by community map maker (EastWindy ) Deadwing : made by community map maker (JessicaSc2) Plus, in season 3 : Foxtrot : made by community map maker (Uvantak ) Merry go round : made by community map maker (Winpark ) King sejong's station : made by community map maker (Str18-02 ) Nimbus : made by community map maker (Icetoad and wrl ) be happy cause the day you were longing for happened a long ago already. But maybe you think all these mapmackers are trash? In that case feel free to open your map editor and give the wonderfull maps that exists in your head... Hey at least you were snarky in your comment! Anyway, my point is not that maps should be made by mapmakers and then it's all fine. The decision process on which maps actually get into the pool should also be made by communiy map makers, because just saying "well we didn't make the map, so you can't complain" won't cut it. (Especially if 3 of those maps are old ones) What I was more referring to is something like a pool of qualified map makers to almost completely take over the design process of the map pool. I.e. group of 10 people from the community work on a pool together with the community, propose that to Blizzard and Blizzard approves/disapproves. (For example, take top 2 map makers from each Region and let them collaborate. Maps are realllly important so Blizzard should invest a little) This can, of course, include that one of those 10 guys brings in his own map. But I feel like just having Blizzard do it quietly in their room for the most part is bad for the map pool. IMHO, the problem is more about community TESTERS than mapmakers. Cause really we don't test shit. Someone started an initiative to test an alternative map pool during season 4 instead of playing dreampool, we even had a chat channel on the servers to find people to play with. But chat channels were empty. cause nobody really bothered to try this new community made map pool. a handfull of people played them against AI and gave limited feedback and that was it. Yes, I did, but as nobody really participated I soon quit putting any attention into it - apparantly nobody was interested in helping the maps in SC2. We'd rather all scream and cry and whine every three months. I completely missed this initiative Maybe front page or sticking it in general would help.
Yeah I missed it completely.
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On January 15 2015 09:38 Blargh wrote:
After extensive play on some of these maps, I've concluded that the only map that has the potential not to suck massive balls is Vaani Research Labs or whatever. And even then, the map is rather meh. At least it has a viable third base.
All of the others are absolute garbage and should be put on veto. This is coming from a Terran and Zerg player.
What about as a Protoss player? I don't mind PvP either, I find it quite fun and it's my third-best matchup
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So what do people think about the new maps? I personally hate Expedition Lost right now.
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I hate the Secret Springs, all terrans just do double rax reaper and isnta-win.
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EBj8A9F.png)
Desert Refuge
