EDIT: Thanks to the amazing Blargh, we now have an aggregator! If you enter your list here, then we can average everyone's list out here. But still do post your lists in this thread as well, so we can talk about them.
With the season coming in a week (A WEEK!), everyone has their opinions as to who's the favorite, who's the strongest or most likely team to succeed. This thread is for you not only to list your teams from #1 to #8, but also to defend your list. My PR is in the spoilers, but don't JUST tell me how dumb my list is. I want to see you make your own and justify it.
Oh, Prime. The little team that could...still can't. Their roster is a little more stable right now, with the recent additions of Yoda and B4, but their mainstay is still Creator, who was fielded as the team's ace all season last season, played more games than anyone else on his team, had Prime's highest winning percentage...and was still under .500. And while Terror has shown some improvements over the offseason, coming only 1 match short of quaifying for the Taiwan Open and notably upsetting MMA in the SSL qualifiers, he was still the joke of Proleague last year, and his nerves are still untested. A Myungsik-Yoda-BBoongBBoong core has a chance to steal some games, but it takes some real rose-colored glasses to predict Prime even making a single playoff appearance this season.
Proleague isn't all-kill. You can't get by with a one-man wrecking crew. And that's what I see when I look at CJ right now. There is herO, and then there's a bunch of "Here's hoping". Here's hoping our only Zerg doesn't get figured out too quickly. Here's hoping Trust rolls a good-but-not-great Protoss as his opponent. Here's hoping the new concoction that Bbyong cooked up will work when it counts. Here's hoping Skyhigh plays like the Skyhigh who beat Maru and Classic, not the Skyhigh who got knocked out in the first round of Code B to a non-qualifier. Here's hoping someone announces another Olympic-type tournament so we can field Sora again. The team lacks consistency. It also lacks Zerg. And that doesn't add up to a winning combination.
This is the big question mark. We don't know if Bomber will play, or how much. We don't know if StarTale will gain access to Parting at any point. We dont know how much the Taiwanese will play. But we have players on this roster who've got solid experience in team leagues in the old StarTale as well as San and Leenock. This team could easily bomb out across the board, and just as easily make deep round playoffs. But overall, I still favor them over CJ due to a strong racial balance (more than twice as many Zergs as any other team). At the end of the day, this is a roster what has more opportunities to succeed than CJ, but pretty much as much variance.
It's hard to say if Samsung is stronger or weaker after this offseason. Out with RorO, in with Dear. Out with Turn and Reality, in with Bravo and Journey. Dear was very consistent in Proleague 2013, but his European excursion has left him worse for wear. He HAS qualifier for Code S and SSL, so it's possible he's returning to form, but it's too early to declare that just yet. More importantly, however, Samsung lacks a consistent Terran. Bravo's style has been quite predictable since he joined Samsung, Journey looks great on stream but iffy in tournaments, and Guilty has a career record of absolutely nothing. With Solar transitioning into the full-time Ace role, and Stork transitioning to more infrequent play as player-coach, this Samsung roster isn't looking like the potential contender for the overall playoffs that it was last year.
Choya, what ARE you? You show me this lineup in October, I say this team is a pile of scraps. Today, it looks like one of the strongest in the league. Losira might be a Top 10 Zerg in Korea right now, Center is consistently a top performer in the OlimoLeague, Seed and YongHwa are in Code S, and beyond all else, MarineKing - MarineKing, of all people - is a top-end contender for the title. If Gumiho is re-added to the roster through the previously announced partnership, this team goes to #3, easily. As it stands, it's still kinda weak in the Zerg front, and neither of the Liquid players are good at this format. I think this team goes deep, but not too deep. Not yet.
It's weird to see a team win a title, change essentially nothing that led them to that title, and so clearly look worse. One of the big things to note: If you remove PvZ, Zest actually had a losing record in the last Proleague. And Zest's record as of late in PvZ has been...well, subpar. On raw talent alone, and hopefully prep time, KT still takes the spot over MVP - after all, this is Proleague, where Flash is one of the best players come rain or shine. But if Zest and Stats don't bounce back from their recent setbacks, this could be a rude awakening from the KT dream run.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. They're not quite the stacked lineup that still didn't win last season, but Innovation is in the shape of his life, Classic is slowly gaining consistency, SKT1.3Gate has shown good Proleague results in the past, and Dark appears poised to bust into the top eschelon at the drop of a hat. Even Sorry was playing amazingly not long ago, so it'd take a concerted effort for them to field a lineup that could be described as "weak". If soO was doing better or Paralyze was in any way consistent, this would be a tight contest for #1. But with their current form, and with how stacked they were without managing to clean house in 2014, I can't justify putting SK Telecom T1 above...
Come fly the friendly skies, folks. This lineup is ridiculous. Maru is coming out of his slump at exactly the right time, Symbol is consistently a threat, sOs has just finished his Triple Crown, Rogue is coming back into shape, Cure is FAR better than he was when Proleague ended, Pigbaby is returning to the team as a champion, and oh yeah, there's also Trap. When Trap could arguably be the 5th to 7th best player on your team, you have an embarrassment of riches so large, you're actually almost assured to disappoint. But we can't assume who actually won't live up to their talent level based on nothing. (Well, we can, but it has to be exactly 3 people, and we have to add them up to 13 points.) So based on the current talent, it is nigh on impossible to see the Jin Air Green Wings as anything other than the top pre-season contenders.
Well, that's my list. But, of course, I'm the OP, so my list is wrong and my logic is faulty. So let's get the lists going!
8. Startale - When a team is likely to use a foreign player, you know they're weak. 7. Prime - Has three key players that are likely to win, but none of the other players are likely to take a game at any point. 6. CJ - Who know how well Bbyong, sKyHigh, Sora, and Hush will do? 5. SKT - Much weaker than last year. Only INnoVation looks super reliable. 4. Jin Air - Very strong, but most of them don't particularly thrive in team leagues. Symbol is a very nice addition. 3. Samsung - Dear, Journey, and Solar are actually very strong. They also have a bunch of hidden weapons. 2. KT - Hard to change a champion lineup much without removing players or outright changing them. 1. MVP - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/473629-why-team-mvp-will-win-spl-2014-2015
At least 2 strong players of each race to field. Maru and sOs were two of the best in the league last season and Rogue as many seem to have finally noticed is a strong upcoming Zerg. Maybe, just maybe Symbol will regain his strength as well. Historically he was once a team league beast. The clear #1.
They've been looking shaky outside of SPL, but they were even worse off in 2013 with terrible individual league results. Yet, they still knew how to turn it on when it came to proleague. Also the reigning champs with little change in their lineup. That at least buys them #2.
Still a strong team. Dark, Dream, and Sorry are somewhat to very underrated. Historically, soO hasn't really replicated his individual success to SPL, but with being out of both leagues now and SKT very diminished in heavy-hitters I think he'll rise to the occasion. Bogus is just a monster in this league, pure gold to my eventual FPL team. Also Classic....he has a gsl title I guess >_>
CJ lacks a deep roster but they certainly have quality. herO and ByuL were consistently at the top of the rankings in the last SPL season and Bbyong certainly grew into one of the best terrans in the league with rather unpredictable play. sKyHigh looks like a powerful TvT sniper (hi2u Flash). The rest of the lineup hasn't been that great lately, but in the past they've totally shown glimmers of brilliance and shouldn't be taken lightly. KT won last season with a small yet deadly lineup, I don't see why CJ can't do the same.
I'd say this team is slightly weaker than last season with the loss of Reality and RorO. Solar seems to have matured into a top-tier Zerg the team desperately needs thankfully, but on paper I'm not seeing any clear heavy-hitters. I've always been critical of Dear, but at a minimum I'd expect he'll be decent. Journey has been a mancrush of mine for awhile, watch out for him. Bravo is like diet-Reality, so still formidable. Yet, the rest of the protoss lineup isn't terribly impressive. Hurricane might finally have matured into something great but I'm doubtful. Stork on the other hand is likely burnt out. I do not expect a good performance from him like last season.
On paper they should be ahead of Samsung, but this is Startale we're talking about. They bombed in GSTL after IM, MVP, and Prime left it. Life is not the god he is in individual league when it comes to SPL. Curious and Leenock managed to qualify for GSL and SSL respectively, but until I see their games I'm reserving judgement. San is probably good. I'm doubtful Bomber will play much if at all. Finally, who's aLive? :p
Prime doesn't have a lineup that impresses at all. MyuNgSiK and YoDa are their best players, and considering that MyuNgSiK was something like the sixth best player on KT the previous season really puts things into perspective. On the other hand MyuNgSiK was always seriously underrated so it'll be a good opportunity for him to show his stuff. But even so, Prime will go into this as a serious underdog with very little chance of this changing.
Samsung has two good players, Solar and Dear. That's not enough for a bo5. Its hard to see which of the others will pick up a win, and if either Solar or Dear falters its game over for Samsung unless one of the others picks up the slack. The key for Samsung this season is to find a solid third pillar to rest upon. Or else its probably good night.
CJ has a lot of players that have the potential to carry them to victory, Bbyong, sKyHigh, and ByuL among them. And of course herO to rest upon. Its hard to say who will perform. CJ definitely has the potential for great things or not so great things. Either way I have the niggling feeling that I've ranked them too low.
KT keeps on being ranked highly in everyone's power ranks. How have they been performing recently? Uh, surprisingly poorly. Only four total participations in SSL and GSL next season, worse then any other team except Prime, and tying Samsung. Zest, their ace has been slumping, Flash is overrated as ever, and Stats and TY still have yet to really impress. They get some credit for being the previous champions, and I guess their failures in individual leagues will give them more time to practice Proleague, but realistically they should be far from favourites.
Much like CJ, Startale has a scattering of good players, but its unclear which of them are the great ones among them who will carry the team. Life has had recent losses against ByuL and Seed that have suggested that he could be suppressed in a format as preparation based as Proleague, and Bomber has taken more of a coaching role. If San and Curious pick up the slack Startale could be in a decent position.
Is this really SKT? Doesn't look much like the team I remember. They have a strong ace in INnoVation, and Dark and Dream have been doing well recently, qualifying for GSL and SSL. Classic is not to be underestimated, and soO will be a strong member of the team once he shakes off his recent individual leagues trauma (caveat: if he ends up against TaeJa in the first match against MVP, his will be shattered and he will be useless for a while). Either way they have a fairly good roster. I'm just not convinced that Dark and Dream are not only good players, but great players.
Not sure how, but Choya has revitalized MVP (or rather built it up from scratch, I guess kicking out all the old members doesn't count as revitalizing). YongHwa, MarineKing and TaeJa are a solid anchor for the team(assuming TaeJa actually plays), and I really want to see what results Choya has achieved on Seed and Panic. My only worries is that MarineKing is very snipeable and YongHwa wildly inconsistent. As things are MVP is a definite title contender.
Hmm... I guess JinAir is the only team left? Looking at their roster I don't really feel that they deserve the number one spot, but none of the others present a compelling argument either. They have the most depth out of any team, Rogue, Maru, Cure, sOs, Trap, Pigbaby, and Terminator all being foes worthy of respect. They don't really have a super-ace, but several of their members have the potential to become one very fast. No team has a roster to match them, and in Proleague format sOs will have tricks that will make other teams tremble. Their recent performance has been on the rise. They are the favourites.
They've got star power plus a pretty deep lineup, might not win but overall most solid (unless Maru & sOs slump)
2. KT
It's basically the same team that won it all last season, enough said
3. ST
They have a long list of potential ace players (San, Bomber, Curious, Life, Leenock) and some decent support too
4. SKT T1
I'm worried for these guys, they lost a lot of players, and dropping out of SSL and GSL might put soO in a serious slump. On the other hand, they have Innovation, who is a complete monster.
5. CJ
I'm putting CJ above MVP even though I think the lineups are similar strength because they have such extensive experience in Proleague format and have the Coach Park factor (I don't think he's a miracle worker though, to put them in top 4)
6. MVP
Their supporting players are fine, but Taeja has not been impressive in teamleagues since 2012 (23-3 IPL TAC3 never forget), and MKP is not consistent enough yet. This is the team with the biggest upset potential imo (like MVP in round 2 of last season!)
7. Samsung
I love Solar, but he can't carry the team alone; they lost Roro and I believe Stork will be playing less, or worse, as a coach
8. Prime
They actually look better than last year, but I still wouldn't bet on them vs any of these other teams (yet )
Pretty similar to Frosted's and iMrising 1. Jin Air 2. KT 3. SKT 4. CJ 5. MVP 6. Startale-Yoe 7. Samsung 8. Prime
I completely disagree with OP's disregard of CJ Entus. herO is probably their best player, but he is not their only good one. Bbyong? Skyhigh? Byul? For reference, Bbyong went 20-11 last PL, Byul 18-11, and herO 26-18. Skyhigh didn't seem to participate, but given his very solid results as of late, it's safe to say he's a strong player.
Also, MVP is definitely the strongest looking non-Kespa team. I could definitely see them doing well this season.
Here's my "tier" list: S-tier Jin Air A-tier KT - SKT B-tier CJ - MVP C-tier ST+Y - Samsung D-tier Prime
Prime isn't bad enough to warrant the usage of an F-tier, which is a definite improvement over last PL. Between Creator, Myungsik, Yoda, 3 wins isn't that absurd. But it'd be quite the surprise to see them make it to round playoffs.
People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I have faith in Has to Protoss some poor terran or zerg every so often. Also Hack is actually really good, but Bomber, when he plays, probably won't do that well because he is easily prepared for. Life can do really well if he practices specifically for proleague. However, the Taiwanese zergs are totally unknown, and San is weak in PvP and can't go toe-to-toe in PvT with the highest level Terrans. I think it's really unclear how well they will perform.
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
8. Prime - Yoda is a big addition, but he can't carry the team alone 7. Samsung - Better than Prime they have 2 carry players in Solar and Dear, everyone else seems way behind 6. MVP - Yeah MKP and Yonghwa are looking promising, but I wanna have some consistency and proleague format is something different, Taeja might not be fielded every week 5. CJ Entus - herO is a superstar and besisdes him they have at least 4-5 players who you can expect to win proleague matches 4. ST/yoe - 3 superstars in Life, Bomber and Parting, several others qualified for GSL or Starleague, they are not used to teamleague, but based on individual quality one of the best teams 3. SKT - They lost many of their superstar lineup, still Innovation, soO, Dream and Classic are very solid top4 2. KT - Main reason they don't get #1 is because I see a huge gap after their top4 TY/Flash/Stats/Zest, no real solid 5th player, but top4 is huge 1. Jin Air - They have the quality and the quantity - 8 solid players competing to be fielded
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
On December 17 2014 15:34 00Visor wrote: 8. Prime - Yoda is a big addition, but he can't carry the team alone 7. Samsung - Better than Prime they have 2 carry players in Solar and Dear, everyone else seems way behind 6. MVP - Yeah MKP and Yonghwa are looking promising, but I wanna have some consistency and proleague format is something different, Taeja might not be fielded every week 5. CJ Entus - herO is a superstar and besisdes him they have at least 4-5 players who you can expect to win proleague matches 4. ST/yoe - 3 superstars in Life, Bomber and Parting, several others qualified for GSL or Starleague, they are not used to teamleague, but based on individual quality one of the best teams 3. SKT - They lost many of their superstar lineup, still Innovation, soO, Dream and Classic are very solid top4 2. KT - Main reason they don't get #1 is because I see a huge gap after their top4 TY/Flash/Stats/Zest, no real solid 5th player, but top4 is huge 1. Jin Air - They have the quality and the quantity - 8 solid players competing to be fielded
Parting cannot play this year because he left SKT before his contract expired. The only way for him to play is if SKT helps him out which they probably aren't inclined to do.
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Zest will prove his doubters wrong, Stats and Flash were only looking better towards the end of this year, and TY has proven time and again to be great at this format. Still no Zerg of note but in this meta it isn't as needed. Depth drops off dramatically after the top 4 but in this format 4 is all you need, and Action (and to a lesser extent Sleep) have shown that they can be serviceable in the playoffs.
They're the team I'll be cheering for and I expect sOs and Maru to crush face again but I'm a little concerned about their 3rd/4th players. Last year they had Rogue as a strong 3rd but he seemed to fall off towards the end of the year. I'm sure some combination of Rogue/Trap/Cure/Pigbaby/Symbol will take the last two spots, but it might take some trial and error to figure out who.
INno/soO/Classic/Dark is still a very strong lineup, Dream appears to be making a resurgence based on his qualification results, and ParalyzE and Billowy are stylistic enough to be great to swap in once in a while.
I think people are really underrating this team. herO has proven beyond all doubt that he's top 5 Protoss in the world, Bbyong looked terrifying in Hot6ix Cup until he ran into sKyHigh, who has himself proven to be no slouch. And I think ByuL will do very well. Sora/Hush/Trust/Bunny have all proven they have the skill to fill in and perform admirably.
This is tough to predict--they could be great or bad. It depends on how well (and how often) TaeJa plays in this format, whether MKP can continue his comeback, whether LosirA's supposed resurgence is really a thing, and whether HerO's mentality holds up after two rough qualifiers following a (mostly) rough 2014.
This team is my dark horse. I predict Solar and Dear will crush face and Shine will still own any fan favorite he plays (though his effectiveness will drastically decrease now that Soulkey is out of the league). Their big problem is a lack of a 4th player and a Terran in this Terran-dominated metagame. I think a lot will ride on one of their new relatively unknown Terrans--if one can perform consistently they could surprise everyone. BrAvO is a good candidate; he was showing flashes of very strong play in Code A even while Terrans were suffering.
Would have rated them higher before hearing that Bomber isn't going to play much. As such I expect a typical San/Life/Curious lineup with a 4th player being switched between various players. I hope they give Hack a few opportunities, I always thought he was an underrated player and in this meta you need to send at least one Terran out there.
Hey, they're definitely better than last year. Creator/MyungSik/YoDa/BboongBboong is a completely acceptable team that will probably win a match here and there. Tough to see them as a real contender though.
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
1st : KT (of course) 2nd : ST - I believe in Life and Bomber 3rd : Jin Air - deep roster : 2 good reliable players of each race 4th : SKT - with Bogus in, they aren't completely done 5th: CJ - Byul is in the mix, he had great PL run last time 6t: MVP - It'll all come down to TL performing well 7th: prime - Choya baddie is out of the team, welcome YoDa and Bbong 8h : Samsung - With rorO out I don't see them going very far even with the addition of Dear
1) SKT 2) KT 3) ST+Y... like the size of this team...Ha, just a guess! 4) Jin... Symbol, Rogue, Cure, Pigbaby are overrated. Maru and sOs more likely to concentrate on individual tourneys. 5) MVP... pls play Taeja 6) Prime... I felt like w/o individual tournaments getting in the way they will prepare!!! 7) CJ... 2 player team. Is Byong actually that good? 8) Samsung... no terran, z is pretty UP right now, that leaves Dear and Stork.. yikes.
On December 17 2014 15:25 UberNuB wrote: I don't think Prime will exist in a year.
God, how many times we have said this and have we been wrong? Teams like Slayers, OGS, IM have fallen before Prime, so a smart guy would never say such things...
Ranks: 1.Jin Air 2.CJ 3.KT 4.SKT 5.MVP 6.Prime 7.StarTale 8.Samsung(God they look awful, Solar sry bro)
I hope y'all don't have too much riding on that JAGW hype train, because it's headed right for crash/burn station. sOs is almost guaranteed to do worse this year (judging by the content of his games vs MKP, his PvT will drop... and there will be more matches played of it), and I don't believe that Cure will be able to replicate his success from last season Code S. His TvT looked especially unconvincing. Rogue hasn't been able to transcend the meta the way Life, soO, Solar, and (?) Soulkey (???) have. Looks like a solid rank 3 team to me that has the potential to overperform.
8: Prime 7: Samsung 6: NSFW if Bomber doesn't play a lot (if he does then switch with CJ) 5: CJ (Bbyong is really good, guys) ???: MVP (impossible to predict Taeja) 3: Jin Air 2: KT (Zest will have a worse year, responsibility falls more than ever on Flash and TY) 1: SKT (classic/inno/soO can reliably be expected to beat anyone, as long as soO isn't actually broken)
What's interesting though is that with the exception of Prime and Samsung, I think every other team has the potential to go the distance if the stars align just right. I wouldn't be shocked to see any of ST/CJ/MVP in the top three.
I don't think Maru has ever been in a "slump". He just didn't play that much in the off season, and yeah he did suffer some losses during this time, but even during his "peak" he wasn't invincible. sOs suffers from consistency issues sometimes, but we know this guy can be good. Terminator and Pigbaby seem to be doing well lately; Trap already has a Proleague championship under his belt, and during STX Soul's final run Trap showed to be a good team league player; Cure had a break out season last season; Rogue is probably one of the best Zergs out there at the moment, while Symbol is also a tried and tested player in team league as well, with a style that suits the format very well. All in all, this is a well rounded team, with both strong Ace players and depth.
herO is the clear Ace, and as good as ever. Bbyong hasn't played much in the off season, but this guy is definitely up there with the likes of Inno and Maru IMO. SkyHigh and Byul make a very solid supporting pair, although losing Hydra does hurt. This team does lack depth, but as seen by last season's KT, just having four solid players with bench players occasionally able to steal games can be more successful at the bo5 format than you might think.
Zest's form is worrying. Unlike sOs who's known to do something wonky in individual leagues (especially after a tournament win), Zest is known for his consistency in individual leagues. He's also known for his PvZ. Both of these fell apart in the two qualifiers. Also, Zest's team league contribution last season was pretty mediocre TBH. Flash is still good, but I wouldn't give him the advantage when pinning him against the Ace player of any of the top teams. Same can be said of TY and Stats. KT will probably stick with their 4 man core, but unless Zest can quickly pull it together, that core is now weaker than it was last season.
Despite the star power, Rain was by far their most consistent Proleague contributor. His replacement, INnoVation, should be good enough to fill the gap left by their former Ace, but the supporting cast isn't looking as good as before. soO wasn't a good contributor to Proleague last season, and his recent form is worrying. His mechanics seem to be still good as ever, but I think his mindset has really been affected. He's now gotten himself into a habit of losing important decider matches, not just the finals. Classic has been pretty mediocre after his season 2 victory. Dark and Dream seem to be good additions, and their recent form is good, but it won't be easy filling the void left by PartinG and Soulkey.
MVP looks like a very solid team right now, but I'm gonna rank them here because the current line-up is still pretty untested in Proleague. YongHwa is doing well lately; Seed made it back to Code S; MarineKing is runner-up contender again; DeParture, Losira and Center all have shown significant improvements lately. I'm hesitant to consider TaeJa and HerO, becuz I'm not sure how much they'll be playing and how they'll be doing even if they do play. This team has a lot of promise, but remembering the EG-TL fiasco, I'm deliberately ranking an essentially brand new team lower on the rankings.
Losing RorO is a huge deal. Stork... well... I think Dear or Solar has to be their Ace this season. I have faith in Dear, he seems to be in good shape lately (I feel like during his slump, he still has good mechanics -- it's just he started making questionable decisions and using strange builds), but his path of redemption is far from over. Solar has been really good, easily one of the best Zergs. But the supporting cast is where Samsung really falls short. They really need to find a consistent 3rd and 4th player.
Again, this team is getting the doubt factor. Life is the Ace and he's as good as any for the job. Losing PartinG is pretty painful. Bomber has said he won't be playing much. San is good but not sure how he will do in team league (did he play TeSL or something?). Curious, Leenock and Hack are solid. Again, this team has lots of potential, but with a coaching staff new (correct me if I'm wrong) to Proleague, it's not an easy road ahead either.
Despite losing MarineKing, a series of acquisitions actually have this team improved. At least they now have a pretty stable four man core in Creator, MyuNgSiK, BBongBBong and YoDa. But sadly, this isn't enough to propel them out of last place, I feel.
Samsung Galaxy Khan Wait. WHAT?! Samsung Galaxy Khan isnt Prime! That's right. I actually thought a solid KeSPA team will perform worse than Prime will. Perhaps I am slightly biased towards some of the players (def not towards the teams themselves, I care for neither) but when I look at the rosters I see a few people who I believe will carry the teams throughout proleague. For Samsung its Stork, Solar, Dear, and maybe Shine. Solar has seemed a little inconsistent of late, he is for sure one of the best zergs in the world right now, but I can for sure say he was faaar better a month ago than he is right now. Dear hasnt been the same since he won the GSL and the WCS Season 1 Finals, and Stork....I really am not confident in stork. Also, this team is beyond shit without Roro. They can't do shit without him.
Prime just because I put Samsung in 8th over these newbs doesnt mean I'm lorning. Prime sucks, but I have a feeling that they will be a SLIGHTLY and I put emphasis on SLIGHTLY, better Samsung. Where Samsung has Solar Dear Stork and Shine, Prime has Creator, Myungsik, YoDa and MOST IMPORTANTLY B4. With Creator being the sexiest protoss before Zest was even playing SC2, Myungsik for being a total badass who should take 2015 by storm, YoDa being on a resurgence in the last quarter of the year, and B4 being a God...Prime can look to NOT take 8th...but they will still def get shrekt on RIP Lorning, next time pick a good team
MVP Okay straight up, if you said to yourself aloud the lineup for this team, and then asked me to guess what team these players belong to, I NEVER would have guessed MVP. Simply put, MVP=DongRaeGOD, Commander Keen, and Super Vampire. MarineKing, Losira, Yonghwa, TaeJa, Seed, HerO??? WTF this is NOT MVP. Though I feel they should be placed higher simply by having Yonghwa on the team, but I will never forgive Choya for the monstrosity he has created, He must be put down.
5. CJ Entus unless my memory is terrible, this guess won the hybrid proleague right? That has gotta count for something. Regardless, CJ has herO, ByuL, skyhigh, BByong, and of course SORA. Unfortunately this team faces massive inconsistencies. herO and probably bbyong will be consistently good, but they need solid backup, and I am not seeing it from the other players, but maybe SORA can bring it back
4. KT Rolster these guys are good. I really mean it. However I'm biased, and I like their archrivals better, who if you have been paying attention, have not be ranked yet :D. On a more serious note, these guys have FlaSh, Zest, Stats, TY and some other people no one really cares about. I will admit, FlaSh is good at proleague, TY is also good. Stats has just gotten better as time has gone by, and then there is Zest. Who has really been shit the last 4ish months honestly. Maybe he can come back with proleague, but i dunno kev
SK Telecom SKT is good, just like KT, but where KT has consistency is fewer numbers, SKT has depth, like 2012 ST/MVP depth. with winno in top form, the KT Killer on their side, Classic, Paralyze soO, and in my opinion most notebly DREAM AND DARK (no im being serious, those two will carry SKT) SKT may not look as fancy as last year, but they have a DAMN GOOD team
1. ST-FW nope, thats not a typo, there is a team ranked above these guys, and they are still number one. I couldnt decide which I like mo- I mean, which has the better chance of coming out victorious in proleague, so I gave them a tie for first. ST-FW has AWESOMELY good players on its roster, including Has Hack Bomber aLIve Life AND SAN, with a potential to get PartinG as well, are you fucking kidding me?! Unholy Alliance aint got shit on these guys the hype is real
1. Jin Air Green Wings Holy Shit, people actually realized for once at least, when I hype something its for good reason, even if its a year late, everyone realizes that this team is TERRFYINGLY GOOD. KT, SKT, ST_FW, Choya's Demonic Army, nothing compares (well except for aforementioned ST_FW according to my rankings) to JAGW lineup. They got dude with best name (terminator) two best proleaguers from last year (God and that Maru guy) HyuN's brother in roach arms Symbol, Observertoss, Trap Card Activated, AND the only up and coming duo that beats Dream/Dark (Rogue, and CURE) These guys will destroy everything in their path, except for San, and potential merc DRG, and maybe Dream/DArk but thats about it. Be Afraid Proleague, Be Very Afraid
On December 17 2014 16:58 pure.Wasted wrote: I hope y'all don't have too much riding on that JAGW hype train, because it's headed right for crash/burn station. sOs is almost guaranteed to do worse this year (judging by the content of his games vs MKP, his PvT will drop... and there will be more matches played of it), and I don't believe that Cure will be able to replicate his success from last season Code S. His TvT looked especially unconvincing. Rogue hasn't been able to transcend the meta the way Life, soO, Solar, and (?) Soulkey (???) have. Looks like a solid rank 3 team to me that has the potential to overperform.
8: Prime 7: Samsung 6: NSFW if Bomber doesn't play a lot (if he does then switch with CJ) 5: CJ (Bbyong is really good, guys) ???: MVP (impossible to predict Taeja) 3: Jin Air 2: KT (Zest will have a worse year, responsibility falls more than ever on Flash and TY) 1: SKT (classic/inno/soO can reliably be expected to beat anyone, as long as soO isn't actually broken)
What's interesting though is that with the exception of Prime and Samsung, I think every other team has the potential to go the distance if the stars align just right. I wouldn't be shocked to see any of ST/CJ/MVP in the top three.
Taeja sucks at proleague, soO is broken Classic isnt good enough, Flash and TY cant handle without Zest ST_FW have SAn nuff said
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
Okay guys!! Using all of my e-sports passion, and time-wasting skills (I'm staying up for SSL!!), I have created a Google form which would allow us to input our rankings. This way, we can also look at the "average" rankings (idea from ZigguratOfUr!) Link to ranking form Link to ranking "averages"
If everyone uses it, then my time wouldn't have been wasted, too! I think it'd be pretty cool if OP updated with the links, and even cooler if he maintained the statistics on it. Now people don't need to read each response to get an idea of what people think. Obviously, it's still fun to read The_Templar's choices though, just his are so horrible.
1. CJ - Because faith dawg...... herO will beast mode this shit, and their "weak" (yeah... weak =/) backups will pull through. I see Bbyong and ByuL having over 50% w/r, and herO being top 5 for SPL MVP. 2. KT - A weak KT is just the guise behind this team. They'll still manage to win most of their games because this is KT and this is SPL. 3. Jin Air - Beast of a team right now. These guys are definitely #1 right now, but I just don't see their completely capable team pulling through. Just intuition... 4. SKT - Still top 4 contenders, they just won't get as lucky as the top 3, nor are they quite as there as they were before. 5. MVP - Man this team is looking good, but they won't perform well, because this is SPL, and they aren't top KeSPA material! 6. ST-Yoe - Will be really fun watching these guys give us entertaining matches. I just see them losing 2-3 in most of their matches and never being able to catch a real break. 7. Samsung - Oh boy.... This is where I hope I'm wrong. I hope Stork BEASTS through this, and that his coaching skills helps the team pull through some amazing wins, but it just doesn't seem likely at all. Above all (even though CJ and JA are my favorite teams), I hope Samsung pulls through and destroys everyone out of nowhere. 8. Prime - Oh Prime.... I love Prime. They are awesome guys. How can you think they'll win though? Oh well, one can dream... In the end, I want Prime to do well enough, and I want them to keep competing in the pro scene.
1.) KT Everyone seems to be putting them below JinAir, but I think the previous champion without any changes to their roster should be definitely regarded highest. Yes, their star players did not perform the best in the last couple of days, but it is a team that is notorious to be focusing on Proleague - and who knows, maybe they were on holidays or there were other factors why their players didn't play the best in GSL/SSL qualifiers. Still, the combination of skill and starpower that they can field in the lineup (Flash, Stats, TY, Zest) is still not rivaled by any other team.
2.) Jin Air Second strongest lineup I think, with 1-2 combo of Maru and sOs and deep lineup of other players capable of beating anyone - Rogue, Cure, Symbol, Trap even Pigbaby. A lot of people are putting them first, and rightfully so, but I just have a feeling that at the end of the day, some other team will emerge victorious.
3.) SKT1 Well, after last year of being undisputed king of the world (and failing to capitalize on it by winning), this year they are considerably weaker. Which, quite funnily, may help them. They have the backbone of Inno/Classic (the strongest STX duo in their winning season) with soO added in. That's a really strong P/T/Z trio, that can compare to Jin Air's Maru/sOs/Rogue or CJ's Bbyong/herO/Byul! Coming behind them are probably gonna be Dark, Dream, Paralyze and Sorry - which I don't think are as strong as Jin Air's alternatives, but still quite capable.
4.) CJ Another team, another super strong T/P/Z trio in Bbyong/herO/Byul. Ranking them below SKT and JinAir, cause I personally think their team is not as deep as far as skill or experience is concerned. I can see Skyhigh taking quite a few games, mostly in TvT but if players like Sora, Trust, Hush or Bunny meet any of the strong players on other teams, well, I don't think they will win. Unfortunately, as I root for CJ and I want to see the herO smile in the finals!
5.) MVP To be honest, I wanted to put them above CJ and I still think they may end up being stronger. Choya has put together a very strong team, but to be honest, I have my doubts. Taeja is likely the strongest player on that team. But he didn't really want to train for SPL while being on his own team (remember EG-TL?), do you really think he will put in extra practice playing for MVP? Other then that, there is also HerO, who is much better in this regard, but there are doubts whether he can carry a team in SPL (protip: he couldn't do that for both EG-TL and IM). Another player with potential to carry is obviously Marineking. Other than those players though, there is not too much experience with SPL in that team (maybe Yonghwa, but he doesn't have a stellar record at all) compared to teams above them - and as we all know, experience is very important in SPL. I can see MVP much higher and also much lower - all depends on how well the Liquid guys play.
6.) ST-YOE First of all - Bomber himself said he will be focusing on individual leagues and won't be playing in SPL much. They still have great players, but they are missing one of the most important components - experience. SPL is very taxing venture and we have seen time and time again that teams without experience are failing in it. Plus Startale players in general have a history of performing better in individual leagues then team leagues. Still - Life, San, aLive, Hack, Curious, Leenock should be very dangerous lineup against any of the other teams!
7.) Prime Sorry Samsung, but I think Creator, Myungsik, Yoda +1 is a better lineup then Solar, Dear and whoever else you decide to field, be it Hurricane, Shine, Bravo or Journey.
8.) Samsung Refer to the above + as a note - last time I also thought they are gonna be bad and they ended up much better then expected, so I fully think they will perform again just to fuck me up.
Last thing I want to say is that this year it seems to me that all teams are muc closer in power and all the matchups can be very unpredictable. Lineups and maps will probably be much more important then in the past as well as preparation for the specific map/matchup and research into the opponents. That's why I think the long standing Kespa teams will have an advantage, at least in the beginning.
It was easy to look at a large team with star power and think omg! They are so stacked, no brainer. Proleague don't work like this. It's win 3 games and you win the series.
1. KT. Flash will be flash. This is Proleague. His playground. Flash delivers. TY is the best Terran with multi-tasking, tearing opponents apart. Flash will prepare a build so brutal, execute to perfection and leaves you wondering if the game is imba or it's just flash. But TY just tears his opponent apart with his drops and multi tasking. Given that how flash and ty was just destroying Protoss during the blink era, it's scary to think this 2 can do now. Stats was looking great 2 months back but look a bit inconsistent now. He should still be good for 50% win rate. As for Zest, he should bounce back. His pvt have never been great, although his once godly pvp now looks shaky. But a bit of practice, he should be ok again. The strength of KT is this, all of them are veterans in Proleague. I do not think there is a team that can realistically take 3 games off this quartet. When it goes down to an ace match. This is where Zest and Flash will trully shine.
2. Samsung Galaxy. Stork was beginning to look like the stork of old at the tail end of Proleague last season. If he turns it up a bit, he can be so strong again. Solar is now in contention for best Zerg in the world. And at worst, placed 3rd behind soo and life. He should be the cornerstone of the team's charge to compete for first. Shine is devious and evil. He has no qualms about 9 pooling. And can be counted on to grab some devious wins for the team when least expected to. Dear can be counted on for wins especially since he looks kinda good again.
3. JinAir. sOs had the best record in Proleague last season. Considering he won just 1 out of his first 6 games iirc, which makes him even more terrifying. Forget about not qualifying for SSL or code S. This is where he truly shines. He will come out with a whacky build tailored for this one or two games a week and continue to leave everyone dumbfounded. Cure and Rogue now seems to have found confidence and play well. This 2 will be a handful for anyone. The doubt is actually Maru. He has been kinda found out. 2 rax merry go round was his specialty and he seems to have problem playing the long game unless he does crippling damage early game. With a lot more terrans now, I think maru might be in trouble. His tvt was quite weak. But with trap wIting in the sidelines, I think JinAir will be ok.
4. SKT1. Rain, Soulkey and Parting were the players that brought in the most wins for SKT last season. Classic hardly played, and Soo never really showed his prowess in team league. Sure innovation is a great addition, but it's just a point in a race to 3. Paralyze have improved but he is no Rain. Not convinced Dream is the real deal. He has been around for a long time and I don't know if he has made it even to the finals of a big tournament. Dark needs to pull lots of miracles out for this team. This is going to be a long hard season for SKT fans like myself.
5. CJ Entus. Hero remains the one unscathed from the qualifiers where Rain, sOs and Zest fell. He should still be good for a win and pray his team mates can find another to send it to the ace match for the team to have a chance. Byong looks the most likely bet for the other win. Sora/Trust + skyhigh if he can get a tvt looks decent. The loss of effort really hurt, just when he was starting to play some great games.
6. MVP. If this is 2012, early 2013 then wow. What a team. The player with a decent record in Proleague is hero, but I think he may not get as much chance to play like last year. Taeja and MK have proved in the past that they are not suited to Proleague. But maybe now if they concentrate fully and Proleague and not be distracted by going to foreign tournament for easy cash, we might see some improvement. But make no mistake as IM, MVP and Prime found out. Proleague is cutthroat tough. These kespa guys are mad.
7. Startale/YW. Remember EGTL? I think STYW should do better and not finish last. Oh and that's because the team in last place is so bad.
another edition of EGTL & IM. Slapping together a slew of washed-up or re-invigorating vets does not guarantee any success, choke master HerO & drama queen Taeja do not help either. They actually look worse than IM on paper last season Ace: Taeja when he feels like playing? Any team without a true ace will suffer
Bomber doesnt seem to bother teamleague, Life played subpar last season. The rest has next to zero Proleague experience.gg Ace: Life, but I cant remember him playing as one
being ranked 5th simply because of their slow-start trait. Otherwise a team of experienced (Shine, Stork), returning hero (Dear) and peaking talents (Solar) will unsurprisingly break into top4 after round2 or round3 Ace: KHAN is the one team that doesnt have a specific ace but it's likely Solar and hes scary
their roster has always looked slim but things seem to get on track toward the end of last season. CJ even becomes more stable with ByuL instead of the cointoss zerg duo. They finally have a solid triangle with Bbyong/herO/ByuL, only lacking a consistent fourth, but thats enough to grab a playoff spot Ace: herO
only losing Rain hurts but they got there 2 GSL winners and 1 legendary soO who doesnt lose to weaker players. Their backups are great too with Dark & Dream making both leagues Ace: Innovation (yeah finally a terran ace)
we can all agree that this team is so goddamn strong AND consistent. A 2-0 is guaranteed against most team with sOs and Maru, and the likes of Trap/Rogue/Pigman will take care of the rest. The only thing that puts behind KT (or sometimes SKT) is their ability to win playoff, which might not always related to skills Ace: Maru most of the times
KT knows how to win PL. Their players might fail individual leagues left and right but when Flash/Zest/Taeyang/Stats hit their gear, they wont stop. KT rosters changes the less for the last few SPL because they dont need to, they are that good at SPL Ace: Flash or Zest
The thing that separates top4 with the bottom is the stability of their lineup and the quality of their ace
Prime P - MyuNgSiK (their strongest protoss [probably]. may have a winning record this round, but I rather suspect slightly below) P - Creator (has put up a couple impressive wins recently [including one over PartinG], but failed to qualify for either individual league. I suspect he'll probably get wins over unexpectedly good players though) P - Zoun (has had a few notable wins over good players online, but may or may not be able to replicate that here) T - YoDa (perhaps their strongest player overall, will likely go out every time. probably won't do great to my estimation) T - TANGTANG (like Zoun, has put up wins over progamers online, and could potentially do so in proleague as well) T - Nette (complete unknown [to me]) Z - BBoongBBoong (will most likely be played regularly, although I doubt he'll perform too well [except perhaps in ZvZ, which he seems to still be pretty good at]) Z - TerrOr (his only, and admittedly sparse, results have been online, so I doubt he'll do good right away. but maybe oneday)
I'm sure most people are going to be pretty surprised if Prime doesn't finish dead last this round, and frankly, I will be too. The only two of Prime's players that have really proven themselves recently have been MyuNgSiK and YoDa, but I think Creator may actually impress this round and beat some good players. Will the combined efforts of these three and the supporting cast of BBoongBBoong, TANGTANG, Zoun, and TerrOr be enough to prevent the team from ending up eighth in the rankings? Sadly, probably not. Prognosis of making the playoffs? ABSOLUTELY ZERO.
YoeFW-StarTale YoeFW: P - San (one of seven protosses to qualify for both individual leagues and a threat in all three matchups, I suspect he'll be a regular, and a frequent winner to boot) Z - Leenock (inconsistent, but often great. will find himself played quite often I'd reckon, but may not be able to put up higher than a winning record) P - Has, Z - Ian, Z - Slam, T - Vanilla (I'm unsure if these guys are actually staying in korea or not, but if they are I'd say Has and Ian are the only ones liable to play, and those two likely rarely at that) StarTale: T - Hack (beat Check, TRUE(!), and Cure(!) to qualify for GSL, losing to former teammate Panic. will probably play regularly and pretty damn well) T - aLive (despite being decidedly unimpressive in 2014, he's been putting in work in the daily Leifeng Cups recently so I wouldn't be too surprised if he proves he can hold his own with proleague-level competition) Z - Life (despite his arguably being the best zerg player in the world, he's never been all that consistent, and I wouldn't be too surprised if he had some losses to questionable players) Z - Curious (fresh off his code s qualification, and having beaten sOs 2-1 a total of three times in the past couple weeks, Curious seems to be on the comeback trail, and I'm pretty convinced he'll win his fair share of games this round) Z - Pet (...I don't really know lol. to the extent he's ever fielded, I honestly doubt he'll do that well) Z - Ssemi (their new female zerg player probably won't be seeing much action, but might be played against Aphrodite[?}) Player-Coach: T - Bomber (given his new status and the fact he's stated he wants to focus on GSL, I doubt he'll come out more than a couple times a round, but there's no doubt he can score wins)
At face value, YoeST actually doesn't seem too bad, but given they're as new to the proleague format as their player-coach is to his new role, I doubt they'll be terribly successful in the early rounds. Life, Curious, and San will probably be their big three in my opinion, but Leenock, Hack, aLive, and Bomber all have the capacity to put in some work. They'll definitely win some matches and I wouldn't be all that surprised if they even placed as highly as fifth or sixth, but they just won't have the consistency of a team like SKT or JinAir. Side note: I'll be curious to see if their relatively new protoss acquisition, StuN, or any of the Taiwanese players are ever fielded.
CJ Entus P - herO (arguably the best protoss in the world at the moment and historically one of proleague's best and most consistent players, herO will almost certainly function as CJ's rock for the first part of the season and is undeniably an invaluable asset) P - Hush (a very solid sniper/support player, Hush will probably be played now and again and will likely win a fair bit) P - Sora (hasn't really been played much in proleague, but has put up impressive games offline before. still mid-tier at best) P - Trust (not a bad backup option, but considering CJ's protoss lineup is actually pretty deep, I doubt we'll see much of him) T - Bbyong (one of the better terran players out there right now [despite only qualifying for one individual league], and certainly has a unique style. will help form the backbone of CJ's lineup along with herO, ByuL, and sKyHigh) T - sKyHigh (while his recent top four finish at Hot6ix cup may have been somewhat of a fluke, I expect he'll perform fairly well this round) T - Bunny (probably won't be played much tbh, but could easily nab a few wins over the course of the season nonetheless) Z - ByuL (inescapably solid, will probably be one of CJ's bigger assets. actually one of the scariest zergs out there, provided he doesn't have to play ZvZ)
CJ is the one team I think may actually punish me for how low I ranked it. herO, Bbyong, and ByuL are all REALLY good, and sKyHigh certainly seems to be on the comeup. Additionally, their supporting cast (Hush, Trust, Sora, and Bunny) have continually proved themselves capable of putting up wins. That said, I think there are simply deeper and stronger teams out there this season, and while I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't expect them to make the playoffs this first round.
Samsung P - Dear (with how he's been performing [very] recently – qualifying for both individual leagues – I bet he'll do very well, at least in the first round[s]. solid in all three matchups too, which is very valuable) P - Hurricane (will probably be one of their protoss mainstays. will probably get wins regularly, but I'd be mildly surprised if he put up better than a 50/50 record) P - Stork (player-coach. probably will only come out a couple times a round now, if that, especially considering how deep Samsung's lineup is now. doubt he'll perform very well either, I'm sad to say) P - eMotion (can't imagine him being played much, but may come out as a sniper[?]) T - Journey (great online player, has yet to really prove himself offline, but I suspect he'll actually perform very, very well) T - BrAvO (he'll get played some, probably put up half-decent results too) T - Guilty (doubt he'll be played at all, at least for the early going. I guess we'll see) Z - Solar (top-class zerg, top five in the world probably [not least of which because he's one of the only five zergs to have qualified for both individual leagues], will get played almost every match I'll wager, will come out regularly as the ace, will probably do outstandingly) Z - Armani (good online player, once he gets used to getting played regularly he'll probably be good) Z - Shine (ehh... he'll be played. will he be that good? no. will he get wins here and there? probably)
All in all, there's no denying Samsung is at least a moderately strong team, with the beasts Solar and Dear at the heart of their lineup and various supporting entities like Journey(!), Armani, Hurricane, BrAvO and Shine to back them up. Stork will function well in his role as Player-Coach, and I could easily imagine the team's finishing as high as third or fourth this round.
KT Rolster P - Zest (former[?] best protoss player in the world, a proleague beast... he's going to be a monster this season, especially for the lack of his having qualified for either individual league) P - Stats (really one of the more underrated protosses out there I think, and someone I highly expect to not only be played almost every match but to hold a strong winning record at the season's close) P - Believe (unknown entity. would be surprised if he was even played this round) T - TY (I actually think the BaByterran might be KT's best terran player at the moment and would be quite surprised if he didn't nab a pretty fearsome record over the season) T - Flash (despite the fact he hasn't really be able to put it together in offline korean tournaments, he has never failed to perform quite, quite well in proleague. I see no reason why that should be any different this season) T - Miso (beat a couple people in the qualifiers for GSL/SSL if I recall correctly, but I doubt he'll be played much if at all) Z - Action (will likely be played in some matches, will likely not do all that well imo) Z - Sleep (actually a pretty sick sniper, I predict he'll rack up a decent number of wins over the rounds)
There's no doubt that, like last season, KT's core four will most likely be Flash, TY, Zest, and Stats. These four actually all seem to of a pretty similar level of play recently, but if I had to pick the one I think will do best, it might actually have to be TY. Despite his tendency to lose to every protoss he fucking meets in individual leagues, in proleague he's actually not bad in the matchup, and in 2014 he had one of the higher win-counts of the season (admittedly still the third highest within KT, behind Flash and Zest). KT's real weakness is its lack of consistent supporting players (Action[meh], Sleep[meh], Miso[?], Believe[?]), so its big four will have to shoulder the lion's share of the burden.
MVP P - YongHwa (YongHwa will do REALLY well this round. he's been playing like an absolute monster recently, with convincing wins over MMA, DongRaeGu, NesTea, and soO(!). I fully expect him to be one of MVP's most consistent players) P - Panic (he's pretty good. he did just qualify for code s. I suppose there's no real reason not to expect he'll get wins...) P - (dignitas)Seed (Seed, like Dear, is another instance of a former protoss champion returned to form and, having just qualified for both SSL and GSL, I fully expect impressive play from him this round) P - (liquid)HerO (over the past eighteen months or so, HerO's results have grown profoundly inconsistent, with his occasionally destroying everyone with his classically beastly play but more often falling short. I don't expect he'll be too good in the early rounds but maybe being back in korea will help his play) T - MarineKing (MarineKing is back. that said, despite having gotten second in Hot6ix cup and made it through BOTH individual league qualifiers, the proleague format is not one that particularly suits him. I expect he'll hover somewhere around 50%, but would be pleasantly surprised for this to have proved an underestimation) T - Center (while impressive online, Center has yet to prove himself in offline competition or matches that revolve around heavy preparation and, as such, I suspect it will take a couple rounds for him to start performing well in proleague) T - SalvatioN (like fellow A/B level terrans BrAvO, Bunny, and others, he may well be played now and again, perhaps even to moderate success, but probably won't exactly be a leader in wins...) T - Aphrodite (will likely play a token match against StarTale's new female player in Round 1, but isn't really a factor...) T - (liquid)TaeJa (TaeJa... is TaeJa. what more can one say?) Z - Losira (has been hot on the comeback trail recently, with a Ro4 in HSC and solid performance in online tourneys. I suspect he might not perform that well early on, being relatively unused to the format, but with the help of Coach Choya I predict he'll fast transform into a force to be reckoned with) Z - DeParture (actually a pretty decent player [beat Zest 2-1 in the recent qualifiers], but probably still won't be played much)
Some might scoff at MVP's being ranked so high, above KT no less, but with MarineKing, YongHwa, Losira, and Seed (all of whom have been performing better than they have in years), not to mention the unstoppable winning machine that is TaeJa, I don't actually think such a ranking is unreasonable. One factor I think will be instrumental in MVP's success this season is its wily and talented new coach – Choya. It will also be interesting to see how much HerO is played and whether or not he is able to put forward any results.
SK Telecom T1 P - Classic (GSL champion. one of the cleanest protosses in the world. he'll be good) P - Billowy (with Billowy's random all-kill of KT last season, its not hard to see why SKT picked him up. still though, I don't expect he'll be fielded every time, or even necessarily end the round with a positive record) P - ParalyzE (while he did make a GSL Ro8 last year, I don't expect the afro toss will come out that frequently. when he does, expect something crazy) T - INnoVation (one of the best players in the world for the past two years and absolutely among the top three terrans on the planet, INnoVation should be a monster in proleague. he's been away from the format for over a year though, so it may take some getting used to) T - Dream (one of the hottest rising players, I expect great things from Dream. he's a threat in all three matchups too) T - Sorry (one of those smaller-name, lower-tier terrans who everyone knows is very good but who probably won't see much playtime. might be a decent pick for FPL though, being on a team that's likely to do so well...) Z - soO (what to say about soO... we all know he's one of the best zerg players in the world, but there's no way around the fact that he's been in a massive slump recently. the fact that he's not in either starleague will probably mean he'll step it the fuck up in proleague though) Z - Dark (one of just five zergs to have made it into both starleagues, Dark is becoming a serious badass. I definitely think he will surprise some people with how well he does this season and possibly even finish with a winning record) Z - PenguiN (qualifying for the first individual league of his career is a big deal. performing well in proleague is something else... he'll probably get some playtime, but I have no idea how he'll do)
With a total of three players qualified for both starleagues (INno, Dream, and Dark), a feet only equaled by JinAir (which, if you've read this far, I am sure you've already figured out is my no.1 ranked team this round), there's no denying that SKT is a powerhouse. That's even more impressive when one considers that they ALSO have Classic and soO, both of whom have shown that they can kill nerds in proleague, not just in GSL. Billowy, ParalyzE, Sorry, and PenguiN (who recently qualified for Code S, beating HerO, Stats(!), and TOP) are all going to be good options to throw into the rotation now and again too. Honestly, its SKT... is there any chance they won't wind up near the top?
JinAir Green Wings P - sOs (like his fellow gosus Zest and soO, sOs actually failed to qualify for either GSL or SSL. as a result however, I expect he'll be putting even more effort into proleague. a build order master and exceptionally clever player, sOs will almost certainly be a leader in proleague this season) P - Terminator (this guy basically just up and decided to start playing really, really well recently... now qualified for BOTH starleagues, Terminator is on what might actually be the hottest streak of his SC2 career so far, and I see no reason why that shouldn't extend to proleague) P - Trap (an MLG winner. a very dangerous protoss. well versed in proleague. this guy will get wins, and lots of them) P - Pigbaby (it testifies to the strength of JinAir's protoss lineup that this WCS America champion might well be its weakest protoss player. I don't expect him to be played THAT much, but his capacity as a sniper should not be undervalued) T - Maru (Maru was pretty quiet for most of 2014, but now that he's qualified for both GSL and SSL, he certainly seems to be back in top form. one of the top two winners of last season's proleague, expect Maru to crush nerds' hopes and dreams) T - Cure (GSL semifinalst. very good online. decent in last season's proleague. he'll probably do pretty well) Z - Rogue (another of the five zergs to have made it into both starleagues, its hard to deny that Rogue is fast becoming one of the best zergs in the world. what's more, he's strong in every matchup, a very valuable quality in a proleague competitor) Z - Symbol (very inconsistent, but an undeniably high-tier zerg nonetheless. I actually have no idea how he'll do in proleague, but with the gosus he has to practice with, I'd be surprised if we didn't see notable improvement in his play) Z - Adios (mostly an online player to date, I expect he'll be played now and again, but with the depth of JinAir's lineup probably not all that frequently...)
With Maru, Rogue, and Terminator's each having qualified for both individual leagues, JinAir is still very much at the fore. What's more, they probably have the single strongest protoss lineup in the world (the competition being YoeFW, with PartinG, San, and Has). sOs, Maru, Rogue, and Cure all seem likely candidates for positive overall winrates this season, and with the aid of Terminator, Symbol, Pigbaby, and Trap, I predict that JinAir will more or less make minced meat of most of its competition. Finally, I would argue that JinAir might be the only team with two REALLY strong players of each race, which puts them just ahead of the rest of the pack.
EDIT: Shit, thought it was Bo7... TT some of my rankings/rationale seems kinda dumb now (KT especially should be higher).
Flash always performs well in ProLeague no matter how awful he's doing in individual league's, Zest since he's not in either GSL or SSL will have 100% concentration on ProLeague in Round 1, TY is 1 of the best prep player for a specific map/player as we saw in the previous ProLeague (especially in Round 1), Stats and Action are good players to take wins here and there to help bring a match to the ace match if needed.
sOs is still doing great even after some of the other protoss went into a little slump after the recent patch/map pool changes in individual league's, Cure and Maru are good/great Terrans, Rogue is 1 of the best korean zergs atm, just after Soulkey and soO IMO.
Basicly KT Rolster minus the godly player who always performs fantastic in ProLeague (Flash), herO is their main player, Bbyong will do well again, sKyHigh is lucky that more teams have terrans now for him to crush, ByuL did awesome last ProLeague.
Definatly a downgrade from last season's roster, though they gained Innovation who is 1 of the strongest team league players. soO is still 1 of the best zergs and with him not being in GSL or SSL he like Zest for KT can fully 100% concentrate on ProLeague Round 1. Dark is a great zerg overall who can take some wins here and there. I'm not to sure about Classic as i wasn't all that impressed by him last ProLeague so he might end up being a player that is simply better in individual league's then team league's.
The best of the former ESF teams IMO in this season of ProLeague. YongHwa and Seed are the main protoss as HerO has been slumping lately and also didn't perform that great for IM last season, MarineKing is on the rise again lately so aslong as it isn't a round playoff final or grand final he'll probably do well. TaeJa might do well if he cares enough about ProLeague to play in most of the games which i honestly doubt considering his previous look towards ProLeague. LosirA is doing well lately so he might get some wins here and there.
A very high potential team but it all depends on if they use more players outside of just StarTale as a regular. Life won't win them much as he's an Individual League player, the only time he performed great was in the very 1st GSTL he played for ZeNEX where he all killed Team Liquid and had the best win/loss ratio of any player, every GSTL/ProLeague after that he was a major letdown. Curious and Leenock will be the main zergs for the team that can get some wins, San will probably win a few games here and there, Bomber if he plays will be the main ace for the team.
Dear and Solar will be the main players with Stork as main support, Shine will play and beat fan favorite's causing fans to get upset about him, Hurricane will see some play and do decent. though good news for Fantasy ProLeague, RorO is gone and won't be killing your FPL anymore.
Slightly stronger then last season IMO, with YoDa and MyuNgSiK, they might end up not getting last place in a round untill people figure out they basicly have to send the same 4 people everytime (YoDa/MyuNgSiK/Creator/BboongBboong) and just prepare for those 4 and beat them.
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
1. Jin Air. If lovely sOs plays legit since R1 this time, i don't see what can prevent Green Wings sOs/Maru/Cure/Rogue/Trap core from racking points and rounds. Having Symbol gives you another sniper in playoffs with Avenge and Terminator can still win bunch of PvPs to snipe Telecom Protosses.
2. SKT T1. On paper, Bogus/Dark/soO/Classic core is extremely good, adding there Dream/Penguin/Billowy for snipes should help a lot in playoffs, but of course, losing mainly, Rain, Soulkey and PartinG won't be easy to recover. Especially, Rain, now Bogus is going to be primary ace, so he might get sniped shittons of time.
3. KT. Rolster have same quadcore in Stats/Flash/Zest/TY, but after MyuNgSiK leave, there is simply only Action on the bench for them, so they might struggle in playoffs. But jokes aside, i don't see how this team can miss playoffs in general, TY/Flash should provide enough points, even if Protosses are going to struggle.
4. CJ Entus. CJ is probably in worst situation from top-4, after effOrt and Hydra retirements/freedom searching, ByuL is only Zerg in team + they still can't get stable ace, if herO struggles as much as last time, Bbyong will have to step up big for CJ to reserve that place in global playoffs.
5. Samsung Galaxy KHAN. Even with RorO's retirement and Stork going for player coach role, Dear/Hurricane/Shine/Solar core is pretty much what you want from bo5 - Protoss sniper, Zerg cheeser and two all-around Protosses. Lack of relatively big Terran never hurt Samsung though :>
6. MVP. Choya magic is cute, but it won't be enough. In general, MVP is bunch of guys who failed with IM last season, TaeJa and HerO who won't play every week either and newly resurgent MKP. If TaeJa plays every week, TJ/MK/Panic/YongHwa core looks cute but not really something which should be feared by either of five teams above.
7. Startale-Yoe Flash Wolves. Bomber is player coach, PartinG isn't allowed to play, so we're left with Life/San/Hack/Curious/Leenock core? Unless San steps up big and wins more than 50-60% of his PvPs, i don't see them going really big, probably one-two round playoffs is possible though.
8. Prime. Poor Prime, they're in better shape this time though. Having Creator/MyuNgSiK/YoDa core isn't something which is scary for top teams, but it might be enough with bunch of PvP wins. We'll see how it goes.
On December 17 2014 18:05 Blargh wrote: Okay guys!! Using all of my e-sports passion, and time-wasting skills (I'm staying up for SSL!!), I have created a Google form which would allow us to input our rankings. This way, we can also look at the "average" rankings (idea from ZigguratOfUr!) Link to ranking form Link to ranking "averages"
If everyone uses it, then my time wouldn't have been wasted, too! I think it'd be pretty cool if OP updated with the links, and even cooler if he maintained the statistics on it. Now people don't need to read each response to get an idea of what people think. Obviously, it's still fun to read The_Templar's choices though, just his are so horrible.
Time for the terrible list that will never be right 8. Startale (Unless Has plays quite a bit) 7. Prime 6. Cj entus (I really want to put them above Samsung but I don't think I can) 5. Samsung 4. MVPC (Think MKC) 3. Sk Telecom (only this high because Bogus information) 2. KT best KT 1. The Jin Air Green Wings, because million dollar man
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
On December 17 2014 14:54 Pontius Pirate wrote: People are hopelessly overrating ST-Yoe. Life has been mediocre in team leagues the past couple years, Curious and Alive are decent but not great, Bomber won't be playing much, the Taiwanese will get figured out VERY fast, and San is only ace quality in PvZ, unless he shores up his other matchups - especially his PvP.
I wouldn't say that people are overrating ST-Yoe. Aggregating all the results, so far ST has been rated on average around the 5th-6th position. Even if you think ST-Yoe is awful, I don't think that's hopelessly overrating. Now KT on the other hand is actually hopelessly overrated.
Nah KT is gonna do well because they have four good players and it's Bo5. Also the fact that they didn't make the individual leagues will give them more PL practice time :D
I appreciate the point about more PL practice. I just don't think their four players are as good as everyone thinks they are.
Oh I think there are some overrated players on that KT lineup but I still think Zest/Flash/TY/Stats is one of the strongest starting lineups in the league
CJ have some really good players in herO, Bbyong and ByuL, and will probably float around in the middle. And if all of these players show up consistently, they might go to the upper-middle, or even the top.
INnoVation and soO, which team wouldn't want these two on their roster? Although, if we're gonna give this an honest analysis, we also have to say that INnovation is quite inconsistent, and who really knows where soO is mentally right now? And if these two won't show up, Classic is gonna have a difficult time carrying.
sOs, Maru, Symbol, Trap. That is a contender line-up right there. The way things are looking right now, sOs is probably gonna rack up wins with his quirky builds and recently boosted confidence. Behind him are Maru, the Marine Prince, Symbol, the King of Roaches, and Trap, the clutcher who showed us the ultimate late game PvZ at MLG. And with really decent substitutes like Rougue and Cure, this is is a team to watch out for.
Some of you might wonder how this team is at top 2, while it is really east to see why. This is a team of unending potential. Yongwha, Seed, Losira, names that just scream potential. And backing them up, manifesting their potential into results, is Choya. Marineking has already showed what this is about, not to mention that he also will gave Teaja and Hero by his side, helping to carry.
Life, the best player in the world, accompanied by Leenock, Curious, Pet... heck, they could even field an all-zerg line-up and still be contenders! Anyway, as for terran and protoss, Bomber, Hack, aLive, San and Has. Not only they have alot of raw firepower, but they also have endless sniping opportunities. Not to mention what kind of quirky builds some of these players can bring. Facing a team like this will be a nightmare for anyone, and I very confident about their ability to deliver.
8.Prime : self-explanatory 7.Samsung : They have some good players, but somehow I feel like they won't perform well 6.STFW : I would put them in the top 4 if they had PartinG and Bomber as a player only, but now I don't know if they will perform well. Life and San will have to carry hard, and I'm not sure teamleagues are Life's cup of tea. 5.MVP : Their players are on a hot streak right now, the Choya effect is in full power, but will it last? I don't know. I see them making a very good round 1, maybe even winning it, and then slumping. 4.SKT : SKT didn't manage to win last season with a dream lineup. This lineup is not bad, and I expect INnoVation to be in the race for best player at the end of the season, but I don't think the other players will be consistent throughout the year in PL and are exceptional teamleague players. 3.CJ : It's almost the same team as last year, with a good PL Zerg added (although CJ could definitely use one or two more good Zergs), which gives CJ a great stability. Add that to Coach Park's natural magic and I would be surprised not to see them in the finals this season. In terms of line-up though, they feel weaker than KT and JAGW. 2.KT : Just like CJ, KT didn't change a lot during the offseason. I expect them to power through the season with their traditional Flash-TY-Zest-Stats base lineup. 1.JAGW : JAGW has two exceptional players and a whole lot of very strong players, and also has diversity. I think they are the favorite to win this season, much like SKT was last year.
On December 17 2014 18:05 Blargh wrote: Okay guys!! Using all of my e-sports passion, and time-wasting skills (I'm staying up for SSL!!), I have created a Google form which would allow us to input our rankings. This way, we can also look at the "average" rankings (idea from ZigguratOfUr!) Link to ranking form Link to ranking "averages"
If everyone uses it, then my time wouldn't have been wasted, too! I think it'd be pretty cool if OP updated with the links, and even cooler if he maintained the statistics on it. Now people don't need to read each response to get an idea of what people think. Obviously, it's still fun to read The_Templar's choices though, just his are so horrible.
Thank you for this, it's pretty cool to have the average power rank
8. Prime: If the best player on your team is a little green gremling, well glhf
7. MVP: I still don't buy that MKP² is back, rest of the players are ok, nothing more though (assuming Taeja won't play much)
6. Startale: A little bit stronger than MVP imo, Life, Bomber (does he actually play?) and San looks promising, but at the end of the day they won't prepare as well as the other teams and be kinda like EGTL back in the day.
5. Samsung: Worst of the "trve" Kespa teams, Solar and Dear probably have to carry hard to make the playoffs a possibility
4. SKTT1: From probably the best team last year (at least on paper) to a team which probably will need to fight for place 4. Innovation, Classic and soO surely are absolutely great players, but soO looked kinda shacky the last few weeks and Innovation seems to be "easily" snipable imo.
3. CJ Entus: Not sure why i put them at third instead of fourth place, probably cause of Coach Park and the smile of herO
2. KT Rolster: Yes, KT the winner of last season is "only" second in my list. It hurts to say, but i think it is the truth. Sure, TY, Stats, Zest and Flash are probably the strongest core players of any team, but other than that KT isn't really blessed witha deep roster. I think these 4 players will perform very well in the season (even though KT looked kinda lost at the qualifiers of the individual leagues), but the first place goes to
1. JinAir: You just can't really argue that JinAir has the best roster this year, just look at this and tell me i am wrong. Jaedong, you really should have gone there -.- ^^
On December 17 2014 18:05 Blargh wrote: Okay guys!! Using all of my e-sports passion, and time-wasting skills (I'm staying up for SSL!!), I have created a Google form which would allow us to input our rankings. This way, we can also look at the "average" rankings (idea from ZigguratOfUr!) Link to ranking form Link to ranking "averages"
If everyone uses it, then my time wouldn't have been wasted, too! I think it'd be pretty cool if OP updated with the links, and even cooler if he maintained the statistics on it. Now people don't need to read each response to get an idea of what people think. Obviously, it's still fun to read The_Templar's choices though, just his are so horrible.
Nice! I was just typing things into a spreadsheet. This saves me the trouble of doing so .
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
If anything, TY is criminally underrated. I'm looking at his TvT (looking like an important MU this year) on aligulac, and since July he probably has the best TvT results on the planet.
He's got one-sided stomps of Hack, Cure, Sorry, sKyHigh, Bbyong, Ryung, and a whopping 5-2 record against Maru. He beat aLive 2-1 and his only losing record is against INno with 1-2. He's got a record of 77% against South Korean Terrans, INno has 68%, Taeja has 63%, Maru has 55%.
Flash has 72%. So... yeah. I fully expect Flash and TY to pick up most of Zest's slack this year.
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
How are Stats and TY overrated? if anything those two are extremely underrated imo. Zest will soon bounce back, these two qualifiers were flukes imo. Flash was a beast in spl, is a beast in spl and will always be a beast in spl, there is NO WAY KT will be mid tier, wtf man^^
The only thing that worries me a bit is the total lack of a solid zerg, but zerg isn't the strongest race right now anyway, so i don't think that will be the biggest problem (obviously this can change with new maps though)
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
I really don't know why you seem to think Zest is a bad player who somehow won three premier tournaments in a year. Stats and TY are not overrated, they do the job in PL (and are unpredictable, very important for PL) even if their individual league results are not here. Flash is probably wildly overrated when playing in indiv leagues, but in PL you can't say that (look at PL 2014 stats : Flash is the fourth best player and second Terran after Maru, in a year that was characterized by Terran imbalance for the first few months). I mean sure you can definitely rate KT under JAGW and maybe SKT, but apart from that... Saying it is a "mid-tier" team doesn't feel right.
On December 17 2014 18:05 Blargh wrote: Okay guys!! Using all of my e-sports passion, and time-wasting skills (I'm staying up for SSL!!), I have created a Google form which would allow us to input our rankings. This way, we can also look at the "average" rankings (idea from ZigguratOfUr!) Link to ranking form Link to ranking "averages"
If everyone uses it, then my time wouldn't have been wasted, too! I think it'd be pretty cool if OP updated with the links, and even cooler if he maintained the statistics on it. Now people don't need to read each response to get an idea of what people think. Obviously, it's still fun to read The_Templar's choices though, just his are so horrible.
Done and done. Those links are getting edited in right now. But I would still encourage people to write up their lists with rationales as to why they choose what they choose and have some discussion on the subject. For instance, I would agree that Flash is criminally overrated in individual leagues, but he still stomps in Proleague.
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
I really don't know why you seem to think Zest is a bad player who somehow won three premier tournaments in a year. Stats and TY are not overrated, they do the job in PL (and are unpredictable, very important for PL) even if their individual league results are not here. Flash is probably wildly overrated when playing in indiv leagues, but in PL you can't say that (look at PL 2014 stats : Flash is the fourth best player and second Terran after Maru, in a year that was characterized by Terran imbalance for the first few months). I mean sure you can definitely rate KT under JAGW and maybe SKT, but apart from that... Saying it is a "mid-tier" team doesn't feel right.
Zest is far from bad, but it is not a coincidence that he had such fantastic results during a year when 1) Protoss was dominant and 2) Terran was far from dominant.
Just don't field him against any Terrans - not hard to do with Flash, TY, and Stats on the team - and KT is arguably stronger than last year.
On December 18 2014 02:53 SackOfWetMice wrote: People are seriously overrating KT...
I guess we'll see soon enough if I'm wrong. I just don't think their core 4 players are as strong as all the KT fanboys seem to think.
Their core 4 players literally won them SPL
Absolutely.
2014 SPL is a totally different beast than 2015, though. Gone are the days of SKT never fielding a Terran. Gone are the days of Zest riding his perfect PvP to success. He can't win a PvZ recently, and has always been terrible at PvT. And I think that Stats, TY, and Flash are all slightly overrated. I think KT will be a solid, mid-tier team in 2015 SPL.
There was also the 2012-2013 SPL where they were doing even worse. Flash was literally their only player posting individual league results and even that was mediocre. As far as I can remember they had nobody else but Flash in the the gsl for several months. Yet, they still managed to get 3rd.
Coming into 2014, I'd of ranked them as one of the bottom teams on paper but they went ahead and proved me wrong by winning the thing. So I think KT has earned at a minimum a top 3 ranking. Individual league != Team league.
1. KT 2. JinAir 3. SKT 4. CJ 5. MVP 6. Samsung 7. ST-Yoe 8. Prime
Anything but KT in first place is a travesty. They have the same players that won the last season (barring a B-team switch-up that doesn't matter), but now also have Coach Ryu Won. SKT is weaker, JinAir is about the same, and the rest are not contenders.
Weak performances or not in solo player leagues, KT was always a Proleague-first team. They look stronger than last season and will win this time too.
I've watched every Proleague and GSL game for the past year and a half. I just don't buy the individual leagues != team leagues argument. It doesn't make logical sense. It seems like that argument is simply what early religion was to early human cultures - an attempt to make sense out of things that are unexplainable. The only possible logical explanation is if KT players are just allowed less time to practice for individual leagues and more for Proleague.
Also, it felt to me like other teams (SKT and JAGW in particular) lost SPL 2014 more than KT won it. I think people will be much more prepared for KT this time around, with specific snipers on each team for the 4 core KT players. Not to mention the fact that you essentially don't have to prepare for vZ against them, that just makes it easier.
I think Zest, Flash, Stats, and TY all had breakout years in 2014. Each saw some of if not all of their best individual league success ever in SC2. I expect at least 2 of them to drop off slightly if not significantly (Zest has already been doing so for the past ~5 months). I'm wary of both Zest and Stats having their "breakout year" during the undisputed year of Protoss. If they can maintain their 2014 level of play throughout all of 2015, then I'd definitely rank them (KT) in the top 3. I just don't expect them to. SC2 is a very volatile game. So I guess "overrated" is not exactly the word I was looking for; rather, I'd say I have tempered expectations for KT's core 4 players in 2015 (in both SPL and individual leagues).
To add on to my last post, part of my attitude towards Zest and Stats comes from learning to temper my expectations for players in SC2 that have a "breakout year." And who's to say that Terminator or Yonghwa won't be the next Zest? Or that SalvatioN won't be the next Maru? You never know with KeSPA players; all of them have the potential to break out and become dominant for a while.
It's pretty interesting to see KT and SKT go back and forth between 2nd and 3rd place average ranks. In my opinion, they have two different types of teams this season (unlike last season). KT Rolster is pretty much a set 4 players with very little possibility of variation. SKT on the other hand has Innovation, with a few very solid others (Classic, Dark, soO, Dream). If you were to head-to-head compare players, KT Rolster would be the definite favorite, but SKT has the option to use more players, whom can prepare individual sniping builds.
While I consider SKT to be a bit worse than KT this season (hence me putting them as 3rd, and KT as 2nd), it'll be really interesting to see how things pan out. Jin Air still the clear favorite for first though (as most people seem to agree)
1. KT - I think their top 4 lineup is the best in proleague (Flash, Zest, TY, Stats). Those four are probably a bit more consistent than Jin Air's lineup. Their weakness is a drop off in talent past the top four. 2. Jin Air - Just a stacked roster -s0s, Maru, Rogue, etc. Will probably challenge KT for the championship. Probably the most amount of talented players in a lineup top to bottom. 3. SKT - Only slightly ahead of Cj's roster, T1 holds onto soO and Classic and crucially adds Innovation after losing Parting and Soulkey. The rest of their lineup has decently solid players like Sora who can contribute. 4. CJ - A solid lineup with players like herO and Bbyong. Their lineup past those top 2 is decent, but falls off a bit and will hurt them against top teams like Kt and Jin Air. 5. MVP - Without Taeja, Gumiho, and HerO I think this team is fighting for the bottom spot. With them, however, I think they could suprise and be a top team. We shall see if they perform though. 6. Startale - Similar to MVP, Startale got a huge boost by non-team participating members. 7. Samsung Khan - The bottom two teams fall off quite a bit after Startale. Samsung has a modest lineup which lacks top end talent and depth. 8. Prime-Easily the weakest team in the league, they should be bottom feeders throughout the year
On December 18 2014 08:19 Blargh wrote: It's pretty interesting to see KT and SKT go back and forth between 2nd and 3rd place average ranks. In my opinion, they have two different types of teams this season (unlike last season). KT Rolster is pretty much a set 4 players with very little possibility of variation. SKT on the other hand has Innovation, with a few very solid others (Classic, Dark, soO, Dream). [v]If you were to head-to-head compare players, KT Rolster would be the definite favorite[/v], but SKT has the option to use more players, whom can prepare individual sniping builds.
In what universe is KT's lineup better head-to-head?
Innovation is just hands down flat out better than Flash, I think soO is likely to have a better 2015 than Zest, and Dark has posted significantly better individual league results than TY but remains untested in PL, so that's harder to call. Classic and Stats were neck-and-neck this year, but I'll have to give Stats the edge for 2015 because Classic's best MU is vZ and Stats's is vT. 'nuff said.
KT has a lot of vT talent which is going to help them rack up points against other teams if Terrans continue to do well. But head to head? Definite favorite? I don't see it.
On December 18 2014 08:19 Blargh wrote: It's pretty interesting to see KT and SKT go back and forth between 2nd and 3rd place average ranks. In my opinion, they have two different types of teams this season (unlike last season). KT Rolster is pretty much a set 4 players with very little possibility of variation. SKT on the other hand has Innovation, with a few very solid others (Classic, Dark, soO, Dream). [v]If you were to head-to-head compare players, KT Rolster would be the definite favorite[/v], but SKT has the option to use more players, whom can prepare individual sniping builds.
In what universe is KT's lineup better head-to-head?
Innovation is just hands down flat out better than Flash, I think soO is likely to have a better 2015 than Zest, and Dark has posted significantly better individual league results than TY but remains untested in PL, so that's harder to call. Classic and Stats were neck-and-neck this year, but I'll have to give Stats the edge for 2015 because Classic's best MU is vZ and Stats's is vT. 'nuff said.
KT has a lot of vT talent which is going to help them rack up points against other teams if Terrans continue to do well. But head to head? Definite favorite? I don't see it.
I dunno man, I see KT as being a fair bit stronger. While recent results (qualifiers from SSL/GSL) may show SKT as the stronger team, I think that's way too limited to get a good idea of how well they will do. In addition, the less those players have to play in individual leagues, the more time they have for Proleague.
While Innovation is (imo) one of the absolute best PL players this next season, and will no doubt be the main ace player, I think Flash, Zest, and TY are better players than Classic, Dark, and soO (judging by his current trend). If SKT can go 2-2 with KT Rolster, I think they are likely to get the victory with an Innovation ace match, but I definitely think it'll be a bit tough to get those two wins.
Of course, there isn't a huge difference between the two teams, and I had a fairly hard time ranking the two, so I could see it going either way in PL, but if you asked me if Zest, TY, Flash, and Stats were overall better than Innovation, soO, Classic, and Dark, I would say definitely.
NOW, if SKT had held onto Rain, Parting, and Soulkey..... It'd be a COMPLETELY different story. It would probably be one of the most dominant teams in SC history. Humorously, SKT was one of the stronger teams on paper last season, and ultimately lost to KT Rolster.
1. CJ Entus They have herO, ByuL and Bbyong. These 3 players are all ace caliber. They all will win most of their matches. For the fourth player they have pretty solid line-up in sKyHigh, Bunny, Sora and Hush. CJ will rock through this year's ProLeague.
2. Jin Air Green Wings sOs and Maru are one of the best players in the world. Cure, Rogue, Trap and Terminator are all capable of winning half of their matches. This will be pretty sick team, if sOs would be more consistent, I would pick them as #1.
3. SKT INnoVation is team league god. With soO and Classic supporting him, we can expect lots of wins for SKT1. Dream and Dark are pretty solid too. And they have awesome sniper in Billowy.
4. KT Rolster They have only FlaSh, Zest, TY and Stats. While I believe FlaSh will have sick record in PL as usually and TY will be still great, I don't believe much in Zest and Stats for this season. And Action in not bad, but he certainly can't replace Zest or Stats from last year.
5. MVP I believe that MarineKing will win lots of matches this season. YongHwa, Center and Seed are in pretty good shape too. And with occasional help from TeaJa and Losira, I think can fight for one or two Round Play-offs.
6. ST- Yoe Life is great, but he's not that great in team leagues. Bomber won't play much and Curious, Hack, aLive, Leenock and Has are not really Top player is ProLeague.
7. Samsung Without RorO thei roster seems weak. They don't have really an ace player. Solar seem to be in a good shape, but that's not enough. Dear can score some wins here and there, but he's not good enough to carry team in ProLeague.
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