EPTKorea 2015: Battle for the Empty Throne - Page 6
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LeLfe
France3160 Posts
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Ctesias
4595 Posts
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XiZeL
Switzerland92 Posts
 Stephano the only foreigner mentioned in this article . Such a shame he lost interest, the is truly a savant of the game | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On December 12 2014 19:44 Zealously wrote: The best players like Life, Taeja, San, Parting, Marineking, MC? There's a long list of players that were nothing or didnt even play in Brood War that have won tournaments since the KESPA switch, so this argument holds little merit Also MC was apparently just on the verge on becomming a good bw player before his switch to WoL. I think we have to kind of let go of the "bw is the king of rts" argument. It is a great game but sc2 has long surpassed it by now which is also mentioned in the article. I even dare to say that this is true for the depth of SC2 as an rts as well. BW was a great pioneer in both esports and as a RTS and it shaped the way we think about strategy games and tactics in general. But the things that got discovered in the BW era are long incorporated in the way ppl play SC2. From the way in which Grrr, Boxer and later July made units magically being worth more than they are supposed to, to the way iloveoov, nada and saviour focussed on macro and economy to the multitasking and agression of bisu and jaedong to the perfection of builds and series of flash: These are all things that got injected into SC2 by now as well. SC2 is such a big success not only because of that but also because Blizzard managed to make the game more accessible and more balanced while adding an extremely solid ecosystem around it with the new replay, matchmaking and editor technologies. The article criticises them for being too impatient with balance changes which is a very good point but this and the announcements they made for LotV show that they truly care about their game which is clearly the new king of RTS. Also this article really hypes me as an esport fan. I hope we will see a similar surge in competition in other parts of the world due to the region lock. Even though I don't mind watching only koreans battling it out (I'am also a great fan of all the english casters in Korea) I think it is really cool when there is more competitive tension within and between more regions of the world. I'am really glad and proud to be part of this community. | ||
munch
Mute City2363 Posts
On December 12 2014 19:51 LeLfe wrote: really enjoyed the read, I hope that Mvp not participating in yesterday's qualifier means he's finally taking care of his health. If he can comeback, he'll dominate LotV just like he did for WoL, "winner gonna win" To be fair, as much as I'd love a comeback, I'd prefer it if he just got to live a normal life without a broken body. Better than wrecking himself trying to have a last stab at G5L On G5L actually, I think they should give it to soO if he gets another consecutive silver | ||
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HoZBlooddrop
Italy324 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 12 2014 11:21 stuchiu wrote: Beyond that are the relative importance of patches to both games. Like I mentioned before, Brood War was remarkable (by today's standards) for the off-hands approach of its developer. After patch 1.08, all "balance" issues were left up to players and mapmakers to tackle. By contrast, SC2 patches are almost continuous and a reaction to community demands. Sometimes it only took a single definitive series, from San vs sC to Thorzain vs MC, to convince Blizzard's design team that danger was imminent. In most cases the choice was fostered by collective outrage stemmed from frustration. (...) To be an SC2 pro is to be subject to the prods of a hundred different influences. A player's success in this age is subject to the whims of balance and maps. No matter what strategy you make, it can be rendered useless by an incoming patch. Ah, about that. I was looking at it yesterday and (excluding betas of course): - So far there have been 21 balance patches in SC2 [12 for WoL, 9 for HotS] for a total of 97 changes. - 78% of those changes [76/97] occurred in WoL. Among them, 82% happened in the first year of WoL [62/76]. - There was, on average, 2.5 changes per month in WoL [0.8 change per month past Sept 2011] as opposed to 1.1 change per month in HotS. - The buff/nerf ratio is 1.05 for WoL and 3.2 for HotS. The only "permanent nerfs" in HotS are the 3 ones applied to the MSC [sight range, Time Warp mana cost, Time Warp duration]; the 2 other ones, for the Hellbat and the Mine, have been partially or completely reverted. Hopefully they learnt from the patch 2.0.12 disaster and, in the future, let the game run its course when it's not in a catastrophic state. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
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REyeM
2674 Posts
On December 12 2014 19:44 Zealously wrote: The best players like Life, Taeja, San, Parting, Marineking, MC? There's a long list of players that were nothing or didnt even play in Brood War that have won tournaments since the KESPA switch, so this argument holds little merit Didn't see any of those players winning anything in Korea after the switch. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:31 REyeM wrote: Didn't see any of those players winning anything in Korea after the switch. Life won a GSL after the kespa switch | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:42 Destructicon wrote: Its amazing how much you guys are dismissing Life. With all the talk about Zest, soO etc, you people are forgetting Life has a GSL win (against Mvp no less), a Hot6ix cup win and a Blizzcon. Life is the closest in really huge achievements to Mvp. Also Life is the only one during his reign of terror that even remotely evoked that level of shear domination that only Mvp exuded. I agree that Life is #2 after Mvp. He just needs to hold a reign of terror longer and and 1-2 more korean tournaments. The same could be said about alot of players though. One thing holds true though Mvp is the king | ||
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:46 GumBa wrote: I agree that Life is #2 after Mvp. He just needs to hold a reign of terror longer and and 1-2 more korean tournaments. The same could be said about alot of players though. One thing holds true though Mvp is the king Yep, to me Mvp is still the king. I'd love nothing more then for him to make a brilliant comeback and win a premier Korean tournament in 2015. Preferably that G5L | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:51 Destructicon wrote: Yep, to me Mvp is still the king. I'd love nothing more then for him to make a brilliant comeback and win a premier Korean tournament in 2015. Preferably that G5L Versus MKC in the finals. He then retires and we have come full circle | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:42 Destructicon wrote: Its amazing how much you guys are dismissing Life. With all the talk about Zest, soO etc, you people are forgetting Life has a GSL win (against Mvp no less), a Hot6ix cup win and a Blizzcon. Life is the closest in really huge achievements to Mvp. Also Life is the only one during his reign of terror that even remotely evoked that level of shear domination that only Mvp exuded. Result comparison: + Show Spoiler + Championships GSL (includes World Championship, Blizzard Cup): Mvp 4, Life 2 MLG: Mvp 1, Life 2 Dreamhack: Mvp 0, Life 1 IEM: Mvp 1, Life 1 Blizzcon invitational: Mvp 1, Life 0 WCS Global: Mvp 0, Life 1 WCS EU: Mvp 1, Life 0 WCG: Mvp 1, Life 0 Iron Squid: Mvp 0, Life 1 Totals: Mvp 9, Life 8 Top 4 GSL Code A: Mvp 1, Life 0 GSL Code S: Mvp 3, Life 1 Blizzard Cup: Mvp 1, Life 0 IEM: Mvp 1, Life 1 Dreamhack: Mvp 0, Life 2 ASUS ROG: Mvp 0, Life 1 WCS Season Finals: Mvp 1, Life 0 Totals: Mvp 7, Life 5 Looking at results alone, the difference is fairly small. Depending on whether or not we rank WCS Global as equal to a GSL, I could reasonably see Life being Mvp's equal or even superior with one more championship. But obviously, the tournament placings alone aren't what define Mvp which is where I think this discussion comes from in the first place. People see him as a superior being for how he won rather than just that he did. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On December 12 2014 20:31 REyeM wrote: Didn't see any of those players winning anything in Korea after the switch. 10/10, would get baited again | ||
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REyeM
2674 Posts
Wasn't a bait, I was just checking out the TLPD ^^ | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 12 2014 21:06 Zealously wrote: Result comparison: + Show Spoiler + Championships GSL (includes World Championship, Blizzard Cup): Mvp 4, Life 2 MLG: Mvp 1, Life 2 Dreamhack: Mvp 0, Life 1 IEM: Mvp 1, Life 1 Blizzcon invitational: Mvp 1, Life 0 WCS Global: Mvp 0, Life 1 WCS EU: Mvp 1, Life 0 WCG: Mvp 1, Life 0 Iron Squid: Mvp 0, Life 1 Totals: Mvp 9, Life 8 Top 4 GSL Code A: Mvp 1, Life 0 GSL Code S: Mvp 3, Life 1 Blizzard Cup: Mvp 1, Life 0 IEM: Mvp 1, Life 1 Dreamhack: Mvp 0, Life 2 ASUS ROG: Mvp 0, Life 1 WCS Season Finals: Mvp 1, Life 0 Totals: Mvp 7, Life 5 Looking at results alone, the difference is fairly small. Depending on whether or not we rank WCS Global as equal to a GSL, I could reasonably see Life being Mvp's equal or even superior with one more championship. But obviously, the tournament placings alone aren't what define Mvp which is where I think this discussion comes from in the first place. People see him as a superior being for how he won rather than just that he did. The simple fact is that people rate gsl way higher than any other tournament. All these weekend tournaments don't count nearly as much. You can agree or disagree with that (i would like to see a good discussion about that) but at the end of the day that is how most people think (and i agree). That is also the reason i don't see Taeja as the best terran, he lacks these big titles. So yeah, next year with 6 gsl like tournaments (ssl + gsl) there is a lot of room to have another "Mvp type" player, let's wait and see what happens. (note: i think weekend tournaments are important too, you have to be good at both to be considered "the best", gsl is just more important) | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3491 Posts
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