On November 20 2014 05:28 Yonnua wrote: The warp prism range increase really isn't a buff. Any good player can still do pick-ups as efficiently as possible with the current range "if an opponent has no air units", so it just acts as a buff for bad protoss players, skewing the game in their favour and not effecting higher levels of play.
That is a huge buff. You can keep the prism easily out of the range of anything that can shoot it down, safely picking up immortals/whatever.
Yea it's insane. You can do stuff like keep your Warp Prism behind your Colossi and pick them up as they get shot at by Vikings to dodge the shots and waste entire Viking volleys. Pretty much all of your units have Blink with good enough control.
For example, one of the most powerful buffs in Legacy of the Void that we’re seeing internally is on the Protoss. A Warp Prism performing a drop with two Immortals is ridiculously powerful. The Hardened Shield buff as well as ranged pick up works so well (if an opponent has no air units in play) that Protoss always gets a huge lead in the mid-game.
I wish they'd focus on removing boring (usually repetetive macro-based) tasks from the game and adding fun (usually micro/control-based) tasks to it.
Exploring ways to reduce micro in the game that can’t really be seen vs. increasing micro that players can show off.
I think removing micro that can't really be seen is such a minor issue for as long as half of the units in the game could be made more fun with 1-2simply unit stat tweaks that I really don't like this approach. And I'm not even talking about things like "Depth of Micro" which might be hard and gamebreaking to realize, I'm talking about just starting with basic unit stats that could often be better designed against each other. Experiments with pick up range for Warp prism is a good start in that direction though!
On November 20 2014 05:45 LaLuSh wrote: I'm quick to "overreact".
But for the life of me I cannot understand how they came to the conclusion that:
LOW SUPPLY COUNT = SLOW AND BORING GAMEPLAY
Was there someone to provide counterarguments when that discussion took place? How has this belief come to be held as an absolute truth?
This. I am upset but not even surprised at this point. Though the SC2 engine and units do not have oomph or a unique feel like they do in BW, so low supply battles often (but not always) just feel a lot more meh in SC2 rather than the satisfying experience it was in BW for both spectators and players.
I feel like without the pressure of the Korean scene, Blizzard would not bother with huge changes. Without a doubt they are getting a lot of pressure from OGN/GOM/KeSPA to make SC2 a worthy game. OGN's Star Hangshow
Exploring ways to reduce micro in the game that can’t really be seen vs. increasing micro that players can show off.
I would really be curious to know what arbitrary sort of distinction they've made to separate these forms of micro. Nobody in the community except Blizzard devs hold the belief that units which control well and perform simple straight up attacks are "hard to understand". I know they believe they can add micro in "other ways". But fuck me already. Who is going to be impressed and what is being "differentiated" by adding a bunch of 1-click abilities?
Most of those abilities won't even be used as the game fast forwards through its non existing early and mid games into the lategame, where all the exciting stuff supposedly happens.
Honestly, there would be a hundred times more potential for micro in your game if you just weren't so damn keen on rushing through the parts of the game at lower supply counts which would allow for these intricate forms of micro. You're sure as hell not going to see them in a lategame huge army vs huge army situation.
Hard to understand for uninitiated viewers, i presume they mean, as in they want to expand the audience.
I do think the amount of abilities will be trimed down but they want to filter out which one they want to keep through letting you play them all. At the moment there are to many but at the moment the game is in alpha.
I dont think everyone rushing 200 armys is gonna be what will happen. Doing that means you need to turtle on two or three bases which seems like it will be very hard with the changes tehy have made so far. There should be more points of attack which makes more micro innherantly neccessary.
On November 20 2014 05:55 Big J wrote: I wish they'd focus on removing boring (usually repetetive macro-based) tasks from the game and adding fun (usually micro/control-based) tasks to it.
Launch interceptors is hardly an "ability". It's just how the carrier works because... it's a carrier. It carries fighters, and when you click to attack, the interceptors attack. It's as much an ability as the swarm host spawning ability is.
But for the rest of it, yes, especially when you consider they went from immortals being non-ability to ability.
On November 20 2014 05:45 LaLuSh wrote: I'm quick to "overreact".
But for the life of me I cannot understand how they came to the conclusion that:
LOW SUPPLY COUNT = SLOW AND BORING GAMEPLAY
Was there someone to provide counterarguments when that discussion took place? To me it's just a random belief which automatically is held to be true.
Less supply and lower tech units = less explosions and lasers. We're going by the Michael Bay theory of entertainment here maybe?
There will still be interactions between small amounts of units. What you lose out on with this is a lot of build orders wins. I like the idea of a early game with more units, more focus on early scouting and quicker expanding giving you moe attack points and more to defend.
What is it you will miss from having a lower worker count to start of with?
Everything in the game so far is just a snapshot of where we’re at in development, and nothing is set in stone at this point. For instance, it’s absolutely not determined that Protoss will only get one unit while other races will get two. The final new unit count is not yet decided. We want to do what’s right for the races and the game, and it’s just too early to make a call on the final new unit count for Legacy of the Void right now.
I'm reminded of the time that Blizzard artificially created good will for themselves by pretending they were going to remove the Carrier only to perform an act of blatant fan service by reintroducing it in HotS beta.
Who wants to bet that the question of the new protoss unit will be left in the air and only revealed at some opportune moment?
More and more spells and abilities is much, much more confusing to an uninitiated player than good unit control surely?
I'm still interested to see what comes up though, initial vids weren't what excited me in terms of content, just that they showed Blizzard are really messing around with things
I'm still baffled at why some of Lalush's ideas on air control weren't implemented though. Yet again it's a 'make it faster' in the case of a Banshee, like the Oracle and the Muta before it
Everything in the game so far is just a snapshot of where we’re at in development, and nothing is set in stone at this point. For instance, it’s absolutely not determined that Protoss will only get one unit while other races will get two. The final new unit count is not yet decided. We want to do what’s right for the races and the game, and it’s just too early to make a call on the final new unit count for Legacy of the Void right now.
I'm reminded of the time that Blizzard artificially created good will for themselves by pretending they were going to remove the Carrier only to perform an act of blatant fan service by reintroducing it in HotS beta.
Who wants to bet that the question of the new protoss unit will be left in the air and only revealed at some opportune moment?
They tok feedback into account and reintroduced a unit, that was bad because?
They probably will add new units still, they might remove some and change others. They will probably announce it in a way which will be good for their company. That is bad because?
On November 20 2014 05:45 LaLuSh wrote: I'm quick to "overreact".
But for the life of me I cannot understand how they came to the conclusion that:
LOW SUPPLY COUNT = SLOW AND BORING GAMEPLAY
Was there someone to provide counterarguments when that discussion took place? To me it's just a random belief which automatically is held to be true.
Less supply and lower tech units = less explosions and lasers. We're going by the Michael Bay theory of entertainment here maybe?
There will still be interactions between small amounts of units. What you lose out on with this is a lot of build orders wins. I like the idea of a early game with more units, more focus on early scouting and quicker expanding giving you moe attack points and more to defend.
What is it you will miss from having a lower worker count to start of with?
I like the few minutes at the start to collect yourself. I like the small battles with only a couple units where you can get maximum efficiency out of almost nothing. I like cheese! Scouting is gonna be important either way, and they can force more expansions more quickly through other means.
On November 20 2014 05:55 Big J wrote: I wish they'd focus on removing boring (usually repetetive macro-based) tasks from the game and adding fun (usually micro/control-based) tasks to it.
Exploring ways to reduce micro in the game that can’t really be seen vs. increasing micro that players can show off.
I think removing micro that can't really be seen is such a minor issue for as long as half of the units in the game could be made more fun with 1-2simply unit stat tweaks that I really don't like this approach. And I'm not even talking about things like "Depth of Micro" which might be hard and gamebreaking to realize, I'm talking about just starting with basic unit stats that could often be better designed against each other. Experiments with pick up range for Warp prism is a good start in that direction though!
I wish they would just make macro more fun. Creep spread is a good example of Blizzard making macro options more engaging while still soaking up apm.
Also, maybe Blizzard read this person's post? I don't tend to believe that David Kim reads community feedback, but the language pretty much fits.
Everything in the game so far is just a snapshot of where we’re at in development, and nothing is set in stone at this point. For instance, it’s absolutely not determined that Protoss will only get one unit while other races will get two. The final new unit count is not yet decided. We want to do what’s right for the races and the game, and it’s just too early to make a call on the final new unit count for Legacy of the Void right now.
I'm reminded of the time that Blizzard artificially created good will for themselves by pretending they were going to remove the Carrier only to perform an act of blatant fan service by reintroducing it in HotS beta.
Who wants to bet that the question of the new protoss unit will be left in the air and only revealed at some opportune moment?
They tok feedback into account and reintroduced a unit, that was bad because?
They probably will add new units still, they might remove some and change others. They will probably announce it in a way which will be good for their company. That is bad because?
It's bad because we all know that they will add another unit to protoss. They just hadn't come up with a functional one yet for Blizzcon. They're still planning to add a new unit, but they are pretending to still be discussing it so that they can positively surprise us at a later date with their most recent creation. i.e. they're lying to us for PR reasons
At least I imagine so. It doesn't really matter of course, just that it's a bit silly to read too much into Blizzard PR.
On November 20 2014 05:45 LaLuSh wrote: I'm quick to "overreact".
But for the life of me I cannot understand how they came to the conclusion that:
LOW SUPPLY COUNT = SLOW AND BORING GAMEPLAY
Was there someone to provide counterarguments when that discussion took place? To me it's just a random belief which automatically is held to be true.
Less supply and lower tech units = less explosions and lasers. We're going by the Michael Bay theory of entertainment here maybe?
There will still be interactions between small amounts of units. What you lose out on with this is a lot of build orders wins. I like the idea of a early game with more units, more focus on early scouting and quicker expanding giving you moe attack points and more to defend.
What is it you will miss from having a lower worker count to start of with?
I like the few minutes at the start to collect yourself. I like the small battles with only a couple units where you can get maximum efficiency out of almost nothing. I like cheese! Scouting is gonna be important either way, and they can force more expansions more quickly through other means.
I found the two first minuttes boring and I allways tuned out while doing it. You will still have small battles, why do you think they will disapear? You enjoyed being cannon rushed? I didnt. You can still chees to some extent, since people will allways try to win the greed war to get ahead which opens up for exploiting that. Scouting is more important since you can throw down your first tech building quicker which means you need to know which route your oponent is going quicker insted of jsut knowing if hes building up or cheesing. Which other means would you sugest?
Everything in the game so far is just a snapshot of where we’re at in development, and nothing is set in stone at this point. For instance, it’s absolutely not determined that Protoss will only get one unit while other races will get two. The final new unit count is not yet decided. We want to do what’s right for the races and the game, and it’s just too early to make a call on the final new unit count for Legacy of the Void right now.
I'm reminded of the time that Blizzard artificially created good will for themselves by pretending they were going to remove the Carrier only to perform an act of blatant fan service by reintroducing it in HotS beta.
Who wants to bet that the question of the new protoss unit will be left in the air and only revealed at some opportune moment?
They tok feedback into account and reintroduced a unit, that was bad because?
They probably will add new units still, they might remove some and change others. They will probably announce it in a way which will be good for their company. That is bad because?
It's bad because we all know that they will add another unit to protoss. They just hadn't come up with a functional one yet for Blizzcon. They're still planning to add a new unit, but they are pretending to still be discussing it so that they can positively surprise us at a later date with their most recent creation. i.e. they're lying to us for PR reasons
At least I imagine so. It doesn't really matter of course, just that it's a bit silly to read too much into Blizzard PR.
You are right of course. I apologies for my tone I misunderstod where you were going with that.
On November 20 2014 05:45 LaLuSh wrote: I'm quick to "overreact".
But for the life of me I cannot understand how they came to the conclusion that:
LOW SUPPLY COUNT = SLOW AND BORING GAMEPLAY
Was there someone to provide counterarguments when that discussion took place? To me it's just a random belief which automatically is held to be true.
Less supply and lower tech units = less explosions and lasers. We're going by the Michael Bay theory of entertainment here maybe?
There will still be interactions between small amounts of units. What you lose out on with this is a lot of build orders wins. I like the idea of a early game with more units, more focus on early scouting and quicker expanding giving you moe attack points and more to defend.
What is it you will miss from having a lower worker count to start of with?
I like the few minutes at the start to collect yourself. I like the small battles with only a couple units where you can get maximum efficiency out of almost nothing. I like cheese! Scouting is gonna be important either way, and they can force more expansions more quickly through other means.
I found the two first minuttes boring and I allways tuned out while doing it. You will still have small battles, why do you think they will disapear? You enjoyed being cannon rushed? I didnt. You can still chees to some extent, since people will allways try to win the greed war to get ahead which opens up for exploiting that. Scouting is more important since you can throw down your first tech building quicker which means you need to know which route your oponent is going quicker insted of jsut knowing if hes building up or cheesing. Which other means would you sugest?
Well, we could always try BW economy, where a normal amount of workers mines more efficiently on more bases, to help prevent the 3 base economy cap.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/585Gvnl.jpg)
