On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
Want facts and numbers? Aligulac & Liquipedia. Want fun and stories and random shit? LR Threaaaaaaaad !
ZG had a mini One Piece discussion happen on one of their streams. It was amazing.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
“Grill,” btw, is code-speak for girl—a reference, presumably, to Scarlett. (I’ve omitted a more derogatory remark.) The MC referred to is another StarCraft pro who was playing in the same tournament. Several of these items were accompanied by images of faces, each of which has a different meaning to devotees. The most common such face, known as kappa, belongs to a former employee of the site that became Twitch. It’s a smug mug, goes the idea, and you post it to indicate sarcasm or trolling. One kappa begets another, and pretty soon we’re in meta-trolling territory, where the discussion seems to be acknowledging its own stupidity. “It may not seem like it, but there are a lot of mature viewers watching this right now, they just don’t have anything retarded to say about scarlett,” someone else wrote.
This is not the digital equivalent of sports-talk radio. These guys are hardly talking about the game; they’re expressing sentiments about what it’s like to be one of the people who knew how to talk about the game before everyone else showed up. “It’s a subculture within a subculture,” the games journalist Rob Zacny told me, and he advised me to look away, likening the “creepy hive mind” at work to the GamerGate phenomenon, in the sense that it seemed to be driven by conflicted feelings about accommodating outsiders. What most subcultures want, after all, is to expand their influence while retaining their identity. You can’t have both.
Oh boy.
I'm glad that e-sports is getting more recognition and that the article gets away with (mostly) avoiding talking about her being transgender. As in, it's not the focus of the article at all.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
Btw it looks like her wrist issues is pretty serious I am not sure if 3-4hours practice is enough to improve. That sucks
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
In July, ESPN2 aired a half-hour program previewing an annual tournament for a game called Defense of the Ancients 2, or Dota 2, thereby enraging football and basketball fans who would have preferred round-the-clock speculation about off-season roster moves, and who vented on Twitter: “None of these people are anywhere near athletic,” “Wtf man. This is our society now,” “WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ON ESPN2?,” and so on. Meanwhile, the winners of the Dota 2 tournament took home a total of five million dollars.
By the way,
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation. If anything her gender has been a boon for her.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
he sent me a precautionary video link. It shows Day9 interrupting an interview with Scarlett to provide some lighthearted coaching. “Make her give long answers,” he says. “I’m always, like, ‘Scarlett, this is an important match, how do you feel?’ ‘I feel fine.’ ‘Do you have anything to say? This person just called you a piece of shit.’ ‘Oh, well, good luck.’ ” Occasionally, the camera pans over to Scarlett, who is seated and seems amused by his frustration. At one point, Day9 says, “Don’t you want to do this for a living, Scarlett?”
The article mentions this interview. Does anyone know which interview this is?
On November 17 2014 18:49 Ragnarork wrote: My favorite part, hands down:
[quote]
By the way,
[quote]
You must have missed that huge wave of bans on teamliquid when Scarlett made her breakout. Don't pretend the problem isn't here.
Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
On November 18 2014 00:21 Killscreen wrote: So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
There's a difference between 'deserving to be popular' and not getting hateful comments because of who you are.
What's your beef here, exactly? If you wanna pretend the community's reaction to Scarlett was all sunshine and rainbows since she got here that's your prerogative, but you're not gonna find a lot of people to agree with you on that.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
What is your point?
Dude I'm sorry if you felt that this article was somehow a personal aggression against yourself, but I really don't see what you're trying to do here. You complained that the article was painting every gamer as a misogynist, while there are actual parts of the article which are saying the exact opposite. You argued that the community wasn't hostile at all towards Scarlett, while even a mod said that it was wrong.
On November 17 2014 18:48 Killscreen wrote: I resent this gamergate fallacy being perpetuated.
Hordes of angry young men turned their pitchforks on women (and feminist supporters) throughout the gaming industry
Did they? Did they really? The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome, and yet the article frames it as anything but. Personally, I find it interesting that the only really good female player is a transgender woman, and would like to discuss this as gender roles interest me, but any such discussion is implicitly verboten in the community, because the consensus is that Scarlett would not like it, and we have to respect that. No other player gets any such consideration.
For the record I have nothing against her. This isn't her fault ( although her support would be appreciated and valuable ). I just do not agree with the meme of gamers as angry frustrated men, and I think Scarletts acceptance in the community nicely illustrates this. It's a shame the article doesn't highlight this and instead focuses on perpetuating a bigoted myth.
Absolutely not true. Scarlett was not welcomed into the community. After her breakout performance, there were a lot of bigots posting hateful things whenever her name came up. I won't say these people were the majority, but they filled every thread where her name was mentioned.
So a vocal minority spoke up against her. Most didn't care.
It wasn't till she proved her skill through one incredible performance after another that she gained popularity. She was never popular before that and don't kid yourself that she would be so popular if she hadn't affected the foreign scene the way she did.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think she deserves to be popular regardless of her skill, presumably because of her gender alone? She has earned her place, just like any other good player, proving that the community will judge people on skill alone, not gender or sexual orientation.
Eventually the haters got bored and the fans came out from every hidden corner. People are sheep. When the flavor of the day is hate, they jump on the hate train. When it's love, they jump on that one.
What is your point?
You said "The SC2 community has practically bent over backwards to welcome to Scarlett and make her feel welcome." This is bullshit. That's what I'm trying to say. You admit that the "vocal majority" were spewing hate everywhere. Does that sound like bending over backwards to welcome someone to you?
I can name a dozen programmers who never achieved as much as her and are extremely popular.
She essentially forced people to like her because she was/is the best foreign player. The hate didn't die down on it's own. It took months of her dominating the scene for it to go away.
On November 17 2014 18:55 Killscreen wrote: [quote] Yeah, I must have. Link(s)?
I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of posts explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
On November 17 2014 19:18 WigglingSquid wrote: [quote] I'd like to invite posters to ignore the request for links. Please don't derail this thread with gamergate nonsense and debate club quibbles.
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of post explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
On November 17 2014 19:23 Ragnarork wrote: [quote]
There's no such "links" anyway. It's all in the Automated Ban List thread, and requires digging. One could also look for threads that spawned at that time (was it an IPL ?) to see the kind of comments. That's just scattered in a lot of places.
But I agree, no such point in reviving this.
So there is no evidence of this alleged shit storm, and yet we are just supposed to accept it as gospel. Sounds about right, and in accordance with the anti GG movement. There is no evidence to support my initial quote either. The article does mention gamergame, and it is pretty damn apparent that the article is GG related, so I don't see why you guys seem so reluctant to discuss this major aspect of the article.
Scarlett is one of the most popular and beloved players in the community, and yet we are supposed to be these bigoted misogynists. Am I not allowed to point out this glaring contradiction?
GamerGate? Have you seen how huge that article is? GamerGate is mentioned 3 times, of which only one really goes into it. "Major aspect of the article", what?
I've been reading threads and chats for a while and when Scarlett was mentioned, people would make often hurtful comments about her gender. You can probably dig up "evidence" by looking up reddit threads about her from a while back and checking the downvoted comments. Beyond that I honestly don't see it as big enough of a deal to do the work to present you with a list of links.
The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. People like to present these guys as representative of us, but never feel required to actually prove that they actually do represent us, that they are not a small vocal minority.
Even though the burden of evidence lies with the people making these claims, I would offer Scarletts popularity as evidence that this simply isn't the case.
But fine. You people are obviously not interested in discussing it, so I'll let it go. It's shame though. This stuff is important.
This is not evidence. These are the facts. Either you accept the facts (that are scattered, sorry for your lazy ass, it's not compiled in one nicely formatted article), or you dismiss them, but then we can't do anything for you.
Sorry not to be a banling to provide you with a more accurate description (like maybe stats, etc) of what happened at this time, but as a regular poster, there was a noticeable _increase_. Which is not to say it was not minor, but that was still noticeable, which is still alarming.
Not sure what you meant by "This is not evidence. These are the facts". Yes, some people undoubtedly posted some nasty stuff. I believe you. What I don't agree with is that it is particularly alarming or that this is evidence that proves the gaming community needs to change it's views and culture to better accommodate women and adopt feminist ideals.
Scarletts enormous popularity makes it pretty hard to make that claim, and I think the article dropped the ball not pointing that out.
The article made it pretty clear that the SC2 community supports Scarlett, despite idiots being present. Heck, there's a quote that basically goes "Gaming community minus harassment equals Starcraft community", which is one hell of a compliment. So I'm not sure what your issue is to begin with.
My issue with that is that SC is framed as an exception that proves the rule. Why isn't the allegedly sexist fighting game community the exception that proves the rule?
I checked your post history and you have a lengthy series of post explaining over and over again your discomfort with transsexual people. Maybe you're not the best person to have a debate in this thread.
Why am I not surprised. Baited again, sigh.
There are some really golden quotes in his post history though
On November 17 2014 19:27 lichter wrote: hendralisk also often posts in WCS AM threads. Pretty sure most pros browse. Casters are also always reading threads; Khaldor and Wolf often gave shoutouts during Code A.
iNcontroL also posts quite a lot, as well as TB.
ZombieGrub does as well. I've seen the Shoutcraft crew read some LR threads while casting sometimes.
That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
The New Yorker, form what little I've read of them, like to add as much detail as possible, even ones that are unnecessary and serve no real purpose other than the I guess humanize people.
On November 18 2014 00:50 vult wrote: That second paragraph is kind of poorly written and off-topic. Sure, shedding light on what her family does is cool, but having 10+ lines telling what her parents and brother do, especially the line "they prefer to call their parents Rob and Joyce," seems kind of unnecessary.
The New Yorker is strange, though, so I understand why it's there. Grats to Scarlett on the publicity.
Why? Talking about family origins and upbringing is very much a standard part of narrative journalism.
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