On November 11 2014 03:00 BaronVonOwn wrote: I suppose they could balance the reaver by lowering the scarab speed to something like 3-4 and putting it on a timer, so it's possible to run away from it like in Brood War. That seems to be the idea with the disruptor. I think there is some concern the reaver might be too OP in SC2 what with the balling AI. On the other hand Terran got a mostly intact siege tank and also has the widow mine, so I don't see why protoss can't have the reaver.
Imagine banelings. Do you counter them by shooting them with marines? No, you minimize damage by spreading your units out. Same idea. Spread out, and focus fire the reaver in between shots.
I think that reavers here are not the best idea. Remember, Warp Prisms are getting a buff in range, meaning that they can now pick up from one base and then go to another base. I think that if we had Dark Archons instead, it'd be just as interesting but without the risk of severe nerfing.
On November 11 2014 03:00 BaronVonOwn wrote: I suppose they could balance the reaver by lowering the scarab speed to something like 3-4 and putting it on a timer, so it's possible to run away from it like in Brood War. That seems to be the idea with the disruptor. I think there is some concern the reaver might be too OP in SC2 what with the balling AI. On the other hand Terran got a mostly intact siege tank and also has the widow mine, so I don't see why protoss can't have the reaver.
Imagine banelings. Do you counter them by shooting them with marines? No, you minimize damage by spreading your units out. Same idea. Spread out, and focus fire the reaver in between shots.
Actually yes you do, a lot of the banelings die to WM and marine fire before reaching the target, also stimmed bio can run away from banelings and split without being pre-spread when out of creep, hell if you are good enough even in creep.
I agree with him, you shold be able to somewhat out run scarabs, if they ever implement the reaver at least.
I love the reaver but I'm fine with it not being added... as long as the colossus gets a revamp, and the disruptor is more than a glorified mine.
I am still confused on what role the Collosus and the Disruptor should have? They are both tier 3, and both AOE, and thus both of them seem to overlap quite heavily.
The disruptor gives protoss burst AOE damage, something which protoss does not have but the other races do (baneling, widow mine, siege tank). Hopefully it will allow protoss matchups to function more like ZvT with lots of battles rather than turtle-till-deathball. The colossus is more of a DPS unit, unlike the disruptor it has to be protected to do its damage which is a different playstyle. Not saying this playstyle ought to be removed from the game but I find it less fun.
Isn't that kinda what the High Templar is supposed to do? AoE damage (and at range no less.)
I love the reaver but I'm fine with it not being added... as long as the colossus gets a revamp, and the disruptor is more than a glorified mine.
I am still confused on what role the Collosus and the Disruptor should have? They are both tier 3, and both AOE, and thus both of them seem to overlap quite heavily.
Disruptor could work like a semi-widowmine for protoss. Mass blink stalkers + a few disruptors makes protoss able to be offensive? The disruptor can be used to zone units, make units run and lose dps that way.
Great synergy with forcefields and to some degree speed prism. Probably possible to harass with this unit abit like the reaver from broodwar.
Not sure it hits air? Obviously would still be rly hard. Hope to see more styles such as zealot/archon + disruptor.
Hope archons get better vs air so protoss doesnt have to make phoenixes vs zerg.
One Reddit-poster argued that the disruptor didn't benefit from scale as much as the Collosus does. But I am still not sure they really offer that different playstyle?
Like in which situations would you prefer Collosus and in which sitautions would you get Disruptors? Is it just when you want to play aggressive with a low army value you get the distuptor and when you want to turtle you get the Collosus?
Isn't that kinda what the High Templar is supposed to do? AoE damage (and at range no less.)
Yeh, I am also a bit worried about this. Sure you may control the units differently, but will it allow for different types of gameplay (?), and the micro-response from terran also seems to be the same as vs Psy Storm. Regardless, Blizzard seemed to do a poor job of outlining their vision for the new units.
I also still believe a redesign of the Collosus + more mobility to the Immortal is much more important.
The reaver and the dark archon (with new casting spells) would be great IMO. Or at the very least give the Colossus some sort of new ability or allow micro such that they would hit weaker when a-moved and hit harder with aimed firing.
On November 11 2014 03:41 Falling wrote: Isn't that kinda what the High Templar is supposed to do? AoE damage (and at range no less.)
It does do AOE, but it's damage-over-time (4 seconds) as opposed to burst. The reaver just goes KAPOW and there's blood everywhere. This makes the HT more akin to the colossus in that they both need time to get their damage in, as opposed to front-loaded damage which instantly removes a lot of enemy army value and dps from the board. That being said I love the high templar and all the other BW protoss units that made it to SC2, they are the only reasons I still enjoy watching/playing protoss occasionally.
On November 11 2014 04:20 BaronVonOwn wrote: It does do AOE, but it's damage-over-time (4 seconds) as opposed to burst. The reaver just goes KAPOW and there's blood everywhere. This makes the HT more akin to the colossus in that they both need time to get their damage in, as opposed to front-loaded damage which instantly takes a lot of enemy army value and dps off the board.
This is what makes Collosus HT so potent in TvP. The damage between storm and the thermal lance stacks on top and creates this exact effect.
Yes, I'd like to see the Reaver come back. The disruptor feels like in some ways its trying to do a lot of what the Reaver does anyway, but it just doesn't look as fun as the Reaver. And since they're nerfing and scaling back the colossus, and they're also making it so the Immortal no longer hard counters Mech, there's actually design space to bring back the Reaver without overlapping with the Colossus and without just leading to unstoppable Reaver/Immortal deathballs.
On November 11 2014 04:24 Gamegene wrote: This is what makes Collosus HT so potent in TvP. The damage between storm and the thermal lance stacks on top and creates this exact effect.
Sure, but that's only a viable comp in the late game. You need to go down 2 long/expensive tech trees to get there. Meanwhile Zerg just builds a tier 1 baneling nest and terran builds a factory.
Just watched exhibition match pre show. Dayvie said it himself that Collosus is being redesigned and he seems like he understand why the collossi suck too. That's a really good news. :D
I thought he just said he wanted to make it less neccesary for protoss and therefore reduced its range to 8 and added in the Disruptor?
Could you link me to the time-period where he directly implies that they are still working on it?
On November 11 2014 04:20 BaronVonOwn wrote: It does do AOE, but it's damage-over-time (4 seconds) as opposed to burst. The reaver just goes KAPOW and there's blood everywhere. This makes the HT more akin to the colossus in that they both need time to get their damage in, as opposed to front-loaded damage which instantly takes a lot of enemy army value and dps off the board.
This is what makes Collosus HT so potent in TvP. The damage between storm and the thermal lance stacks on top and creates this exact effect.
Not sure this is the reason? Terran need ghost and viking. Both are required, without both terran stand no chance. Without correct amount, terran stand no chance.
Like in which situations would you prefer Collosus and in which sitautions would you get Disruptors? Is it just when you want to play aggressive with a low army value you get the distuptor and when you want to turtle you get the Collosus?
I would prefer disruptors when they are a realtively small number. I mean, just having 1 or 2 can work with any armee size it feels like. Offense for sure, probably defence also. While having 1 or 2 colossus for protoss means the gateway armee needs to be really big.
1colossus as defence feels kinda bad while 1 disruptor as defence feels alot better.
It also opens up to go more heavy none-stalker play since u dont need to attack air as you do with the colossus(mass stalkers).
EDIT: Something i didnt think about. With this disruptor, it might be possible to use it in flanking. Zerg is the only race i feel that can flank with their siege unit. This unit might not be a siege unit tho but still, its very powerful and i have actually never seen any unit this powerful able to flank before.
Just watched exhibition match pre show. Dayvie said it himself that Collosus is being redesigned and he seems like he understand why the collossi suck too. That's a really good news. :D
I thought he just said he wanted to make it less neccesary for protoss and therefore reduced its range to 8 and added in the Disruptor?
Could you link me to the time-period where he directly implies that they are still working on it?
In the video I watched,he didn't said anything about reducing its range. He just said that the unit is too all around and he wants to reduce its role to be more situational. That sounds like a redesign to me.
Wasn't trying to balance whine; in the entire scope of the game there's more to it than how quickly the combination can kill units. But I merely stated the simple and obvious there because a lot of the actual balance whining (that admittedly I do participate in amongst friends) about it doesn't try to explain the details.
His explanation of the disruptor was just well phrased.
Reaver can't be just ported to sc2. The units are clumping much more now + redundant scarab pathing has no place in sc2 both from the technical point of view and because we don't need more randomization. This means reaver would have to be nerfed hard. After that what cool is left out of a reaver? A harassing unit with burst damage? That's what disruptor is. Please guys stop living in the past, it's time to move on.
Just watched exhibition match pre show. Dayvie said it himself that Collosus is being redesigned and he seems like he understand why the collossi suck too. That's a really good news. :D
I thought he just said he wanted to make it less neccesary for protoss and therefore reduced its range to 8 and added in the Disruptor?
Could you link me to the time-period where he directly implies that they are still working on it?
In the video I watched,he didn't said anything about reducing its range. He just said that the unit is too all around and he wants to reduce its role to be more situational. That sounds like a redesign to me.
He says that they put in the Disruptor becasue they wanted to make the Collosus less all-round. The collosus has been nerfed (8 range - he doesn't say it in the video though) and thus this could open up for more usage of the Disruptor.
Moreover, he used the term "we wanted", thus indicating that he believe they already have changed the role of the Collosus. I am pretty sure that if they were working on a larger design or would do that in the future, then he would phrase it more like "we are working on changing the collosus".
So my interpretation from watching this video is that they are not planning any further redesigns of the Collosus. I would also argue that if he really wanted to redesign it, then he would talk about how the current Collosus lacked micro opportunities and not talk about unit roles.
On November 11 2014 03:23 murphs wrote: Remove Colossus and add Reaver.
One could only dream! but its pretty obvious bliz wants to eliminate the randomness which somehow made bw the game it was. Scarabs,mines,lurkers etc Those things worked in perceft harmony in bw,probably a fluke tho
EPT
