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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On November 10 2014 09:23 GGzerG wrote: It wouldn't really matter if Protoss got a Dark Archon, Reaver, Dragoon, or Corsair, you would probably find some way to make a balance complaint before the beta starts. ^_^ Excellent, thank you for contributing! | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On December 24 2014 16:48 _TMT_ wrote: But it will disable Tempests, Carriers and Collosii.. T doesn't need Lockdown to deal with Tempests and Carriers. Vikings and marines are cheap and competent. Colossus is the only threat, not because of its splash damage, but it forces T to pop vikings that are completely useless against any other deathball units. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10686 Posts
On December 24 2014 17:10 TedCruz2016 wrote: T doesn't need Lockdown to deal with Tempests and Carriers. Vikings and marines are cheap and competent. Colossus is the only threat, not because of its splash damage, but it forces T to pop vikings that are completely useless against any other deathball units. That is a pretty simplistic way of thinking lol | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Reebuuuh!!! | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
Protoss would be well served with some unit that both encouraged early game fights and discouraged death balls, ideally a unit that could potentially harass but was somewhat useful in a straight up fight. Units with high skill caps are also just generally a good idea. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10686 Posts
On December 24 2014 17:59 phyren wrote: The thing about the reaver is that is served a gameplay function somewhat similar to the terran widow mine. When dropped, it served as a strong harrassment option, but it was also very good defensively vs a variety of aggressive timings or all ins. At the same time, it had a great sense of diminishing returns, so you'd rarely get more than a few reavers throughout the game. This encourage some early game action as getting a reaver before or after expansion was both very safe and easily transitioned to aggression, and it also encourage splitting up your army since you didn't want to just mass reavers but also wanted to use the ones you'd made while transitioning. Protoss would be well served with some unit that both encouraged early game fights and discouraged death balls, ideally a unit that could potentially harass but was somewhat useful in a straight up fight. Units with high skill caps are also just generally a good idea. That is a good but, with that aside there are things such as Reaver / Corsair in BW, if that is what we are talking here. :-P | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On November 10 2014 09:15 hitpoint wrote: Wow, why is anyone voting no on this? The reaver was an amazing unit. Because that is not the only consideration one has to take. But instead of discussing gameplay considerations (role overlap, options to defend against, ...) I don't understand why so many guys want old units back instead of seeing new units added to the roster. Why "give me what I already know" instead of "let me experience something new"? On November 10 2014 16:00 Quixotic_tv wrote: They showed that they don't invest too much time to create new content for zerg. Instead they took a unit which already existed (howver unused) since WoL. They created just one new unit and recycled another one.Although I like SC2 even better than I liked SC1 and BW (kill the heretic!), I guess more BW units would be funny. They already made a point when they introduced the lurker. I would propose one iconic BW unit per race. Is that really what we should expect from the final expansion? | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On December 24 2014 18:42 [F_]aths wrote: Because that is not the only consideration one has to take. But instead of discussing gameplay considerations (role overlap, options to defend against, ...) I don't understand why so many guys want old units back instead of seeing new units added to the roster. Why "give me what I already know" instead of "let me experience something new"? because when they make "something new" they make shit like the Colossus? Hellbat? Swarm host? | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 24 2014 18:43 Lunareste wrote: because when they make "something new" they make shit like the Colossus? Hellbat? Swarm host? Are you actually looking for a discussion, or do you just bash SC2 units to try to look like a hipster? | ||
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purakushi
United States3301 Posts
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ZombieFrog
United States87 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On December 24 2014 18:46 [F_]aths wrote: Are you actually looking for a discussion, or do you just bash SC2 units to try to look like a hipster? 2 out of those 3 units are easily the most hated by the community and for good reason. The other is an amalgamation designed to fit a niche that could be solved for better gameplay by splitting the Hellion into Firebats and Vultures once more. I generally don't bash SC2 because I love the game, but there are several design problems with both the Colossus and Swarm Host which would warrant their removal from the game if the Blizzard designers weren't so fucking cock-sure with their own creations. Certainly the community at large has been calling for their removal almost from their inception. | ||
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TiberiusAk
United States122 Posts
On November 10 2014 09:06 ZeromuS wrote: I feel like the downside to that is that, the manually controlled scarab is 300 gas and dies probably very quickly right after it does its damage. This weakness could just be addressed through tweaking numbers; buffing the hp/shields, or by extending the invulnerability window to last for a time after the explosion has gone off. With the right numbers, the unit doesn't have to just be an expensive baneling in the hands of a skilled player. (But it probably should be in the hands of an unskilled player.) To me, the Disruptor is more interesting than the Reaver because the Disruptor appears to have a higher skill ceiling. From what I'm reading in this thread, Reaver micro consists of 1) targeting a unit in the back (because it splashes backwards), 2) building scarabs, and 3) microing the shuttle for taking optimal pot shots. 1) With the Disruptor, you still need to steer it toward the right place in the "clump" (which may be in motion, or some of which may be lifted, split, or blink away after your initial click). I also disagree that "any middle will do"--you'll always prefer to hit more units, the squishier units, and/or specific tech units depending on the situation. 2) You don't need to hit the build scarab button, but you do need to time the actual detonation, which is way more interesting (including to viewers). Also, after you've hit detonate, you have the additional choice of backing off for a better attempt based on how your opponent reacts. Maybe all you need is to pull off a couple of feints to keep your opponent's army split or retreating while you flank, finish a warp-in, get energy for storm, get a kill on a nexus etc. Scarabs are simply fire and forget--beyond targeting, no unique APM or decisions can change the outcome once they're released. 3) The difficulty of warp prism micro can be tweaked with the aforementioned Disruptor numbers as well as the warp prism's pickup range, acceleration and so forth, so this seems like a tie. The siege tank/zealot bait move might be valid too, depending on the numbers chosen and if you can activate detonate while you're inside a prism--but with dropship micro being a thing Terran now also has the option to time their firings to some extent. Also, being able to deploy at range gives you a new choice of exactly where to deploy, but picking up is slightly easier. So overall, assuming the numbers can be calibrated to give the desired timings, the only real downside I see to the Disruptor vs the Reaver is the Disruptor takes more APM and more decisions on the user's side. (While the opponent loses the option to block with units after detonation is triggered, they gain the option to set up a kill on the Disruptor or Prism while they're vulnerable.) Since there is generally more APM available in SC2 than BW, I think that's only a plus. | ||
Falling
Canada11378 Posts
The distruptor plays enough like the reaver anyways, you drop it from warprism, do AOE damage, pick it up while it's vulnerable.. Will it? I suspect they won't play that similar simply because one is a ranged unit and the other is not. If Disruptors wind up being used in conjunction with the warpprism, they'll likely be more like a bomb whereas reaver micro was used as long range artillery to snipe targets and run. To me, the new tank pick-up is more akin to reaver play, except that you don't get the cool directional splash that requires more thought on where you target. | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45135 Posts
On December 25 2014 03:17 Falling wrote: Will it? I suspect they won't play that similar simply because one is a ranged unit and the other is not. If Disruptors wind up being used in conjunction with the warpprism, they'll likely be more like a bomb whereas reaver micro was used as long range artillery to snipe targets and run. To me, the new tank pick-up is more akin to reaver play, except that you don't get the cool directional splash that requires more thought on where you target. I see the Disruptor more like an individual scarab than a Reaver. I loved the Reaver back in BW, but I'd much prefer a new, earlier tech (tier-1.5?) gateway unit. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
But I already got everything I needed with WoL for Protoss, I would love if they would revert the Voidray again to its more powerful form. But thats why I love Protoss so much, they have a really good synergy between units so they need each other to work at all. And while it would need insane micro to handle everything, you can do alot of things before the engagement. I would really hate if they would add stand alone units, thats more a Zerg and Terran thing. | ||
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Trozz
Canada3456 Posts
I want them in the campaign. Robotics imba. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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