On October 16 2014 04:55 H0i wrote: It's not a glitch. They want it to be possible to kill zealots mid-attack, or for units like lings to get another hit in before they die, but not to micro out of zealot attack to reduce it's damage by 50%. If that kind of micro was possible it would be really really strong on lings, although it would be interesting in zealot vs zealot.
I think you misunderstand:
You CAN kill a Zealot mid attack as it is currently.The second hit does not register until the Zealot's attack animation has completed.
However, you can not escape from the Zealot's second attack if the first one hits you. The attack animation kills you even if you are out of range (the way the scv is in the bunker).
On October 16 2014 05:06 Nightshake wrote: Why is it 2 attacks when the second one kills an SCV inside a bunker ? Plus we can add the fact that it could be balancing the game to make single attack with zealot so that they dont get so strong with upgrades.
Not really relevant for upgrades which add +1 damage, as the opponent's +1 armor upgrades also are taken twice into account.
This is how it should work and how it has always worked. A multi hit attack isn't designed for the purpose of somehow dodging the second (or third/fourth) hit. Once the unit has been given the 'ok' by the engine that it's allowed to perform its attack, the whole attack should go off.
-A zealot has 1 attack that hits twice. NOT 2 seperate attacks that fire at twice the rate of what the tooltip says. -If a Thor shoots at a unit with 1HP remaining and it kills it with its first shot, it does not fire it's second shot at another target, it overkills that already dead unit.
Funny I didn't see exactly the same thing than other people :
- If you pause the gif, you see the animation of the second attack starts when the scv is still outside
- when the animation is finished, the scv is inside the bunker. He's dead already but he doesn't know
To me it's totally not related to the game mechanics but to the animations that shows us these mechanics.
Namely, it seems to be linked to the "death animation" things, you kill a marine and then he explodes, like a "if hit points = 0 then do 'death_animation_procedure' like of command. that would explain why there this split second when the scv appears in the bunker.
The question of the delay that actually exists between the 2 players might also play a role. I mean lag has created some wierder stuff.
All in all I think there is no issue with mechanics, scv is hit by second attack when he's outside, not inside...
I am sorry, but this can't be just "fixed". Yes, I agree with the general idea that consistency is good, but this is quite important in the early game and "fixing" this would make zealots significantly weaker against anything that moves. It probably won't be such a big deal in the late game, where zealot harass is already pretty strong and in big fights, zealots are useful in larger numbers only in PvT and there it is mainly their HP that matters ... but the PvWhatever early game is a knife's edge at the moment and a minuscule change could have a butterfly effect. Anyone remembers the measly 1 range on the queen? And even in PvP, the increased ability of probes to sneak around zealots could have tragic consequences ...
No. But I remember the 2 range buff that everyone knew beforehand would kill reactor before expand hellion openings in TvZ, and which was especially designed to buff zerg in the early game and managed to do that succesfully. The fact that Broodlord/Infestor was imbalanced late game and that Blizzard was super slow by patching is a different story.
No. But I remember the 2 range buff that everyone knew beforehand would kill reactor before expand hellion openings in TvZ, and which was especially designed to buff zerg in the early game and managed to do that succesfully. The fact that Broodlord/Infestor was imbalanced late game and that Blizzard was super slow by patching is a different story.
You mean, the patch which nearly destroyed eSportZ? :D
On October 16 2014 04:55 H0i wrote: It's not a glitch. They want it to be possible to kill zealots mid-attack, or for units like lings to get another hit in before they die, but not to micro out of zealot attack to reduce it's damage by 50%. If that kind of micro was possible it would be really really strong on lings, although it would be interesting in zealot vs zealot.
I think you misunderstand:
You CAN kill a Zealot mid attack as it is currently.The second hit does not register until the Zealot's attack animation has completed.
However, you can not escape from the Zealot's second attack if the first one hits you. The attack animation kills you even if you are out of range (the way the scv is in the bunker).
This is because the game checks that the Unit applying the Effect is still alive after the delay between the first and second attacks, not because of the animation.
Now I am curious if units that are already dead via the system, but still are alive and waiting for the animation, can actually still do damage. (oh that part already got covered in the thread) Reminds me about DoW and how kill animations that took ages made Units invulnerable while doing them. Saw a match were an almost dead Hero went from one kill animation into the other tanking the whole army for quiet a while. So Funny.
Design decision like this can't be reworked easily, since the handling of the Zealot would be heavily affected. Make it possible to dodge the second hit and you have to buff the stats quiet heavily or change the animation even. In the end it would make micro more important against Zealots and move away from the easy to learn hard to master approach.
Blizzard has always been about gameplay that works well together. so that not every unit is controlled completely different. And they never card about how much sense it makes. So you are now warned. Anyway if a scv dies after entering a bunker their life support was clearly damaged and they just died. They even explained how stim works.
PS: if this disturbs you, never ever touch d3. Game is now fun as hell, but some design decisions they adjusted afterwards are so abnormal now. Every corner reminds me that this a game made for fun and not for immersion.
If this isn't a bug, someone needs to make sure a Yamato sticks to a blinking Stalker. And every other ranged attack, for that matter. Sorry, Zest, that's some dead Colossi you got in those Warp Prisms.
1. Zealot Damage is a persistent periodic effect that has 0.5 second wait after the first attack.
2. The second attack could have two validators: Is target in cargo (false) and Is distance between caster and target less than or equal to 0.5.
Since neither of those validators are used for the zealot attack, it is probably intended.
If Blizzard wanted to, they could easily (anyone can easily too, if you are familiar with the galaxy editor) make it so the second attack has those two checks (is target in cargo = false and is distance between caster and target less than or equal to 0.5) except in this case, neither of those are used for the second attack.
So it is mostly a balance thing and is probably intended.
If it is not intended, Blizzard can add those two validators (you create one validator with "And" that combines those two validators, then use that validator for the damage check of the second hit of the second attack) to the second attack and this wouldn't happen.
tl;dr - There's an easy way to add "Is target in cargo = false" and "Is distance between caster and target less than or equal to 0.5" to the second attack of a zealot's attack but Blizzard chose not to, so it is likely intended behavior for balancing reasons.
Reminds me of the brood war glitch where if a zealot kills a unit with his first attack, his second attack doesn't check for range and hits any unit in vision
On October 21 2014 09:34 PinoKotsBeer wrote: When a banshee/mine is targeting a unit and it goes into a bunker/geiser it doesnt hit. but with the zealot it is a feature, im confused.
also i believe if a widow mine fires at a DT or banshee as main target and you lose detection of it during the firing animation it will do zero damage to the main target but still splash anything near it
as for the main subject of the thread - i have a lot of respect for people who study the mechanics of the game and figure these things out, but in all honesty whether this is intended or not i've read the effects people say this has and i honestly don't care. the game works fine and i don't think it needs to change. if it's a coding inconsistency then oh well do better for LOTV? and if it's intended then whatever :D
EPT
