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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:05 Wombat_NI wrote: Is that with creep spread the whole way over? Yeah, but it takes something like 7 creep tumors to get from your natural to their main base ramp, so it's not exactly hard to do. Move down the ramp a little and maybe to the entrance of the natural and you can kill their natural base from there. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:05 Wombat_NI wrote: Is that with creep spread the whole way over? Main to main, yes. Natural to natural more or less just requires enduring locusts. Not that anyone is ever going to be able to hold a natural vs zerg anyway | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:00 Bacon_Infinity wrote: I would personally love to see some pro games on the upcoming map pool, whatever it ends up being. It will give us a chance to see what happens when you put old, crazy maps into the current meta. It could also give us a chance to revisit the daedalus point experiment that (im my opinion) got cut tragically short It wasn't cut short. It should never have happened. The old maps some of them are extremely bad. They won't be fun for long. The new builds and the new meta don't work on them. The reason old builds happened was because the maps made them happen - to a certain extent. However, Zerg's specifically are much better at dealing with early aggression than before. A four gate on steppes is the same as a 4 gate on shakuras is the same as a 4 gate on foxtrot. You can hold 1 base play more easily as a Z now than before in 2010. Now, couple this with how much pressure you can put on and how greedy you can be with the threat of this pressure, toss and terran just get put into a terrible spot. Some of these maps put all the cards in the zerg hands, with nothing in the toss or terran hands, and THAT is why daedalus was bad. You couldn't effectively be aggressive against Z early, you could coin flip greedy (standard) open, or you could be super defensive and at best be even with a zerg on army but behind on map control. Severely behind. | ||
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Bacon_Infinity
Canada212 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:02 Wombat_NI wrote: I don't see what was so tragic about it. I'm all for a LoTV that has Protoss less reliant in chokes to defend expansions, but as it stands that is how Protoss works. PvZ was so ridiculous on that map I don't want to do a basterdizing summary but I remember reading a very enlightening post about the daedalus experiment on TL a while back, il try to find a link. I just think it would be cool to revisit this experiment in the WCS off-season when things are a bit less serious | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Quateras
Germany867 Posts
After all their talk about not trying to influence the Pro scene too, much they simply decided to give ALL of them the big middlefinger and tell them to shove it. Many progamers train only via Ladder if you believe their interviews, and thats going to be completely impossible now and all the upcoming Tournaments in the winter month are fucked >_< I'm speechless :S Why do they not make 3 out of the 7 laddermaps classics, so the Pro scene at least have the option to Veto all the classics and can train/practice on normal maps. | ||
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Fluffboll
Sweden516 Posts
Tal-Darim Altar LE Shattered Temple Xel-Naga Caverns Yeonsu Neo Planet S Ohana These were my votes. I don't play a lot of ladder but I do watch a lot of StarCraft and these maps have all been real fun to watch games on so that's why I voted on them. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26028 Posts
I am aware the two overlap in current matchmaking but come on  | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
I was so happy uninstalling the game 2 weeks ago, feeling so relieved. Having achieved so much with every race proved every point I said about imbalance and how ez some tactics are easier than others or attacking with one race/tactic is so much easier then to scout and defend it... my life felt complete, knowing the mappool will always be more macro from now on, more favored towards macro players and play, and macro races - if that exists. Started 2010 with macro only games, promised to never cheese, was butthurt a lot, because... well every other cheesed on some maps... Now the "good old times" come back, with some good old maps. I feel I have to once again, rise from the ashes, put down some macro play on those cheesy maps and once again show why this game was once so awesome it bound me for several years... and in the end uninstall it again, feeling my life will be even more complete. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:09 Bacon_Infinity wrote: I don't want to do a basterdizing summary but I remember reading a very enlightening post about the daedalus experiment on TL a while back, il try to find a link. I just think it would be cool to revisit this experiment in the WCS off-season when things are a bit less serious http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/443505-daedalus-point-a-lesson-in-map-making The whole point i was trying to make is that THESE MAPS SHOULD NOT BE FORCED INTO COMPETITIVE PLAY. This includes ladder. I'm fine for either a one week thing between seasons OR having them in unranked, but the way they are implementing this is beyond idiotic. Besides, Daedalus did have some innovative concepts. While it was wide open as hell, the rush distances are comparable to modern maps. 2010 maps are just bad overall no matter how you look at it. We knew this already, there is no experimentation to be done. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26028 Posts
It was basically 'Protoss can't play standard macro openers and may rely on timings.' To which a series of Zergs played greedily vs sOS and died to weird two base timings. Edit- My memory may be off, I do recall sOs winning there though with one of those funky Zealot/Archon timings of his. | ||
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ivancype
Brazil485 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:13 Quateras wrote: I can't believe Blizzard is trully making ALL 7 maps into classics. . . After all their talk about not trying to influence the Pro scene too, much they simply decided to give ALL of them the big middlefinger and tell them to shove it. Many progamers train only via Ladder if you believe their interviews, and thats going to be completely impossible now and all the upcoming Tournaments in the winter month are fucked >_< I'm speechless :S Why do they not make 3 out of the 7 laddermaps classics, so the Pro scene at least have the option to Veto all the classics and can train/practice on normal maps. Custom games. At least for this season, teams will mean something, sportingly speaking. and to all the BM pro players... karma is a bi*ch... Edit: I also think season 4 can not last more than a month | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
Going back to imbalanced maps for ladder is the opposite. It doesn't impact pros as that much because they can still practice in house and they have less tournaments to prepare for, but it can completely ruin the experience of the average ladder player. @wombat: the only game sos won on that map was off 3gate sentry expand. He simply dragged the game on for half an hour until his early game disadvantage was nullified, while the zerg for some bizarre reason decided not to kill him while taking his nat or third base. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26028 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:23 ivancype wrote: Custom games. At least for this season, teams will mean something, sportingly speaking. and to all the BM pro players... karma is a bi*ch... Hopefully someone will pick me up this season. I might actually have a chance to get on Prime's roster so here's hoping... | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Picking the maps I used to play when I played SC2, so I can go back and Nostalgia ^^ | ||
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
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ivancype
Brazil485 Posts
On September 25 2014 08:26 Wombat_NI wrote: Hopefully someone will pick me up this season. I might actually have a chance to get on Prime's roster so here's hoping... Prime? really? I would love to spend some time with KT or Jin Air  | ||
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