EPTSeason 4 Ladder Map Pool: Voting Begins! - Page 26
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 07 2014 17:51 SatedSC2 wrote: Yet despite the problems, it's still better than all of the current map-pool (except Overgrowth) as a HotS map  Of course that's not hard, given that Overgrowth is the only current map that isn't complete and utter trash. At least you have xel naga not like on fucking heavy rain | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On October 07 2014 17:51 SatedSC2 wrote: Yet despite the problems, it's still better than all of the current map-pool (except Overgrowth) as a HotS map Of course that's not hard, given that Overgrowth is the only current map that isn't complete and utter trash. wouldn't expect any different from you seeing as how protoss favored cloud kingdom is. cloud kingdom is worse than any map in the current pool, even deadwing. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26237 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
On October 07 2014 16:42 Gwavajuice wrote: Haha, you can't hide with humor Superouman : you made the most important map in sc2 history, and imho one of the 2-3 best of all times. So big thanks to you for this map and congratulation, your name will stay in the history of sc2 forever (I mean : as long as there will be people remembering sc2 :D) Are you still retired btw? don't fancy trying to shift the meta again with a new map? /respect It depends if LotV will be more interesting for map making. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 07 2014 18:22 Meavis wrote: wouldn't expect any different from you seeing as how protoss favored cloud kingdom is. cloud kingdom is worse than any map in the current pool, even deadwing. Nimbus. For CK; if they remove the one or other set of rocks it might already be quite better, now that we do not need overpowered sentry builds anymore. | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On October 07 2014 18:22 Meavis wrote: wouldn't expect any different from you seeing as how protoss favored cloud kingdom is. cloud kingdom is worse than any map in the current pool, even deadwing. Deadwing is a perfect map to macro up, EZ 4 bases, or we don't like macro? | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:03 Big J wrote: Nimbus. For CK; if they remove the one or other set of rocks it might already be quite better, now that we do not need overpowered sentry builds anymore. oh come on, you are not seriously considering nimbus to be worse than CK? all nimbus has is the inbase nat being somewhat exposed to drops, where cloud kingdom has huge blink/reaper surface area on the main, lot's of problematic chokes making normal engagements almost impossible. On October 07 2014 19:10 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: Deadwing is a perfect map to macro up, EZ 4 bases, or we don't like macro? deadwing is disgusting because there is almost no reason to push out, all bases are allready next to you so the map essentially becomes a contest of who can make the better deathball without being overly greedy, it doesn't have any considerable balance issues, but how games are played on that map is just so wrong. | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:28 SatedSC2 wrote: Confronted with stats that show you're wrong; resort to ad hominem. Typical. oh that's far from whats going on, if anything it seems like you just start throwing around numbers without any reason behind them when running out of arguments. the number's you are throwing around are far from usefull as this assumed BL/infestor, early HotS where there was no solid meta nor were blink builds refined, oh and pre-nerf hellbats too. as for nimbus you could contribute these numbers to "patch-tosses" dropping off, it will still be interesting how future numbers will look on this map, from a mapmaking standpoint there is no good reason why toss should be struggling on this map. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:51 Meavis wrote: oh that's far from whats going on, if anything it seems like you just start throwing around numbers without any reason behind them when running out of arguments. the number's you are throwing around are far from usefull as this assumed BL/infestor, early HotS where there was no solid meta nor were blink builds refined, oh and pre-nerf hellbats too. as for nimbus you could contribute these numbers to "patch-tosses" dropping off, it will still be interesting how future numbers will look on this map, from a mapmaking standpoint there is no good reason why toss should be struggling on this map. if you don't like stats about old map and old game, playstyle and meta, What do you think of the WR stats on nimbus which is a current map, with current playstyle and current meta. Patch toss is... what ? i didn't see nonames coming out of the scene. All protoss that were winning pre-patch are all established player (no ? maybe i'm mistaken though). Sorry if i sound aggressive or something. I didn't know how to phrase it better :p Not main tongue and hard to explain points sometimes | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:55 FFW_Rude wrote: if you don't like stats about old map and old game, playstyle and meta, What do you think of the WR stats on nimbus which is a current map, with current playstyle and current meta. there's barely been 60 TvP's for that winrate sample, and if you look at the games there are few upsets, and the upsets swing both ways. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:59 Meavis wrote: there's barely been 60 TvP's for that winrate sample, and if you look at the games there are few upsets, and the upsets swing both ways. 60games is quite a lot on a map. It's almost the number of habitation station on the entire SPL 2014. I might throw stats out of my ass but on 555maps played on the entire season with 11 different map, if they were played equally it would have been 50matches per map (approximatly). Not sure if i done this right though | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
nimbus is barely a season old, give it time before pointing on anything. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:21 SatedSC2 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/maps/510_ESV_Cloud_Kingdom As far as Heart of the Swarm stats go, it seems to me that TvZ (59% win-rate for Terran) is worse than PvT (55.4% win-rate for Protoss). During Wings of Liberty, which is what the map was designed for, only "international" TvZ gets close to being imbalanced (54.7% win-rate for Zerg). Compare that to Nimbus (58.9% win-rate for Terran in TvZ and 65.8% (!!!) win-rate for Terran in TvP) and you'll see that CK isn't really as bad as you seem to think that it is. Maybe it will be once people start using Blink all-ins on it, but I doubt it'll get even remotely close to 65.8%. That you think Nimbus is even remotely okay as a map is an absolute joke :3 I don't care much for this discussion, but I think you read the numbers wrong. I read it as terran is favoured over toss in hots? Then there are probably not enough games to make the statistics significant on their own, but that is another story. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 07 2014 19:14 Meavis wrote: oh come on, you are not seriously considering nimbus to be worse than CK? all nimbus has is the inbase nat being somewhat exposed to drops, where cloud kingdom has huge blink/reaper surface area on the main, lot's of problematic chokes making normal engagements almost impossible. non-cross on Nimbus is massively imbalanced. (In general I'm not a fan of rotational "symmetry" on 4p, because at that point we could as well just make assymetric maps to begin with, but that just as a sidenote) The map is extremely turtly, near impossible to attack a 3rd base for Zerg. Meanwhile it is also incredibly hard to take a 4th base for Zerg. On top of that you put the extreme vulnerability of the natural to drops. And that's 59% TvZ which is balanced compared to the 34% winrate for Protoss against Terran there. Meanwhile all you say about CK is basically theorycraft about its HotS gameplay, while we know the map was extremely stable in WoL. | ||
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