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WCS AM will continue to include LatAm, Oceania/SEA, CN, and TW/HK/Macau, you can all stop freaking out about it. |
On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D
I think a lot of it is frustration because;
A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc.
B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even.
The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere.
I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things.
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your Country52798 Posts
On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things.
The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On September 08 2014 22:02 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2014 19:42 Squat wrote:On September 08 2014 15:56 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. Yeah games like Candy Crush is easy and cheap to make. A ten thousand dollar app could potentially make millions quite easily. SC2 probably cost Blizzard millions to develop. edit: It would be interesting if a new Age of Empires or Red Alert tried to become competitive. Perhaps Warhammer would be a good competitor. Games Workshop needs it. I think they are hurting. There was one in the mall for nearly two decades, and just recently closed up. A Warhammer RTS modelled to become an esport would be what GW needs to survive. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've heard GW is close to flatlining? Doesn't seem like there is much room for investment in a long term project like a major PC title under thos conditions? I used to be pretty involved in AOE2 a long time ago, I was expert level way back when the game was still kind of fresh. It's fairly balanced, among the the higher tier civs at least. Thing is, that has more to do with the fact that the civs are basically all the same, with minor variations. It's also complete ass to watch if you aren't already quite knowledgeable, way more than SC2 or even BW. As for RA, eh, I dunno. I really don't think EA has any interest in pouring as much money into a niche market as Blizz has done with Sc2. Developers don't make RTS games because RTS games don't sell. They're too hard, ask too much from the player, and punish even small mistakes too harshly. I play with a group of five people who all enjoy the competitive play found in Dota, but they tear their hair out when trying to play Sc2. You aren't wrong, GW is close to going bust. I just thought this could be a last ditch effort to revive a dying franchise. I think GW's Warhammer mmo already shut down servers, so maybe there is nothing left but to say a prayer. I don't know if there could be anything to rival SC2, I just remember some of the games I played alongside BW.
There's like zero chance GW would ever do that. They only just started using the internet for things like digital updates and what not, they are super technology-averse and definitely not fans of competitive gaming overall...
They have a wonderful IP tho.
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GW basically live in 1978. The internets is a dangerous land after all. They charge like they're accounting for inflation in the year 2164 though, so they are kind of chronologically challenged.
I'm struggling to figure out a good analogy for what they've done with their awesome IP, I'm thinking of something that involves golden geese and shotguns. I'll get back to you on that one.
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On September 09 2014 01:08 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things. The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though.
The gameplay is bad since the constant balance issue. There is a reason why they call Monk the best follower in the game. They were trying to fix some classes for almost 2 years and just realized they can't do it, they rushed out a huge buff here and there trying to fix things but only managed to break more. It's on the level of unplayable for me now, like a marauder is able to one shot a nexus level of broken in sc2.
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your Country52798 Posts
On September 09 2014 02:18 cpower wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:08 The_Templar wrote:On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things. The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though. The gameplay is bad since the constant balance issue. There is a reason why they call Monk the best follower in the game. They were trying to fix some classes for almost 2 years and just realized they can't do it, they rushed out a huge buff here and there trying to fix things but only managed to break more. It's on the level of unplayable for me now, like a marauder is able to one shot a nexus level of broken in sc2.
I should have said "fun". I have only gotten level 40ish paragon on two characters so I don't really know about the balance.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 09 2014 03:09 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:08 The_Templar wrote:On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things. The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though. The storyline for Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 was also pretty dumb. They're the gaming equivalent of a (hack and) slasher flick.
One of the main reasons I haven't played Diablo 3 yet :D
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On September 09 2014 01:43 Squat wrote:
GW basically live in 1978. The internets is a dangerous land after all. They charge like they're accounting for inflation in the year 2164 though, so they are kind of chronologically challenged.
I'm struggling to figure out a good analogy for what they've done with their awesome IP, I'm thinking of something that involves golden geese and shotguns. I'll get back to you on that one.
Lol well put. I like the "chronologically challenged" part, because they truly are challenged.
I don't think GW ever considered their tabletop game to ever have a viable virtual video game, thus they stubbornly kept with the tabletop model only. They underestimated the Internet.
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As long as we're sticking with the derail, I'll throw in my 2 cents about Blizzard. I've always seen them as the Nintendo of the PC gaming world. They won't use popular trends unless forced, they're dead-set on their own vision, they have to use their own unique system for online gameplay and sales, they always project the aura of being in their own little world, and they're able to get away with it because as much as new iterations may sometimes frustrate the fans, their IPs are SOOOOOO GOOOOOOD - good enough that they made a new IP from just smashing together all their other IPs.
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I am ok with WCS reset, but against region lock.
I know, that koreans will win 9/10 tournaments, but no one see good side of this situation. Because of regions are open, koreans stay in Europe/America and play in ladder with EU/AM players. With every new season of WCS, there are more and more players, that are good enough, to win with korean player. You can see this especially in EU market. Players get more skill beacuse of open regions. Please compare beginning of WCS and nowadays WCS. Finally non koreans can stand on the scene with koreans players.
That's why I am against region lock. There is no reason to do this. If you want to be champion - you have to win with best players. Locking regions is obvious message that "koreans are too good for other regions, so we locked regions" IMO champion have no excuse.
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Finally the real action will be packed in Korea and not spread out for the winds.
A bit unfair for korean players however, their job will get a lot harder now. Maybe scale regional tournament prizes for skill density?
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On September 12 2014 19:56 Verafin wrote:
I am ok with WCS reset, but against region lock.
I know, that koreans will win 9/10 tournaments, but no one see good side of this situation. Because of regions are open, koreans stay in Europe/America and play in ladder with EU/AM players. With every new season of WCS, there are more and more players, that are good enough, to win with korean player. You can see this especially in EU market. Players get more skill beacuse of open regions. Please compare beginning of WCS and nowadays WCS. Finally non koreans can stand on the scene with koreans players.
That's why I am against region lock. There is no reason to do this. If you want to be champion - you have to win with best players. Locking regions is obvious message that "koreans are too good for other regions, so we locked regions" IMO champion have no excuse.
Korea has always been region locked due to GSL's setup. You need to physically be at qualifiers and all stages of the tournament. Because there's a barrier from foreign entities swooping in over a weekend and taking all the prize earnings overseas, Korea has a more financially stable environment for the best players to dedicate themselves to the game.
This notion that "the only way other regions will be able to compete is by playing Koreans" is a short-sighted one; it'll get better results in the short term for a handful of dedicated non-Koreans, while the overall scene languishes because people have to find other financial means to support themselves, relegating their dedication to the game down to semi-pro. It's been this way for years now, and is why the other regions still cannot compare to KR. It's semi-pros going against pros from Korea. Region lock is a long term investment, slowly building the regional infrastructure to actually support dedicated pros financially. The quality of the region might suffer a bit in the short-term (unless Koreans physically re-locate like non-Koreans have had to do for GSL since its inception) but it'll provide a stronger foundation in the long run. How does anyone think Korea got so good in the first place? Did they play against magical StarCraft Gods to get good, or were they able to dedicate their time with financial stability (read: KeSPA) to self-improve?
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The problem is the live events are so full of commentary and down time it's kinda pointless to watch them. Rather wait till they go onto youtube and then watch them. That way I can skip through all the commentary and all the down time and I can just watch the games that I'm really interested in. Plus, I'm a real big fan of TvZ and if there isn't one in a tournament or there isn't going to be one casted I generally don't like to watch it.
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On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere.
A lot of that has to do with majority of the developers who created Warcraft , Diablo and early World of Warcraft no longer work for Blizzard, those were the developers that made Blizzard good Aka Blizzard North, Rob, ect.
They are now replaced with terrible developers like jay wilson ect. Blizzard is not the same company as it was 10+ years ago. They have been lazy as hell with a lot of things, and really seeing a decrease in the quality of their products. I just hope they don't skimp on LOTV.
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only the official WCS tournaments will be regionalized, i dont think this will hurt the foreign scene, but rather enhance it. anyone can still compete in battlegrounds, dreamhacks, and kespa if im not mistaken, only official WCS events will be regionalized (I.E. WCS america, Europe and the GSL.) it gives players like scarett, snute, and Huk, who dont often travel to tournaments outside their region but have the skill to tango with any korean out there, a shot at more WCS points to actually make it to blizzcon and compete at the level we all know they are capable.
Yes we all know that the best players in the world come from korea, but that is primarily because of their interest in the sport, there are many in the EU and Americas that are good, but need the shot to break out and get seen, picked up by a good team, and grow. this system offers them that oppertunity much more than the previous system did. personally im very muh looking forward to the 2015 season to see some players we havent seen before, who knows, maybe there is another scarlett out there that we havent seen play yet.
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On September 09 2014 03:09 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:08 The_Templar wrote:On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things. The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though. The storyline for Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 was also pretty dumb. They're the gaming equivalent of a (hack and) slasher flick.
The storylines for Blizzard games were never good. They were just accompanied by fucking awesome cutscenes. The older games just got away with it because the storylines were very simple back then. They more they added story, the more flaws they introduced.
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On October 01 2014 01:20 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:09 SatedSC2 wrote:On September 09 2014 01:08 The_Templar wrote:On September 09 2014 00:57 Darkhorse wrote:On September 09 2014 00:49 Squat wrote:On September 09 2014 00:38 Darkhorse wrote:On September 08 2014 15:51 Incognoto wrote:
As if Blizzard is the only company that's capable of making a good RTS?
Companies aren't afraid that they won't be able to top SC2, companies just don't see a lot of ROI in making an RTS compared to making games for other game genres. I don't really know why but it just seems like with all the complaints about Blizzard games (SC2 for RTS, WoW for MMO) game devs haven't managed to make anything more popular for awhile now. Might just be brand recognition or it might be quality but Blizzard games tend to stay on top. Not trying to start a debate on the merits/flaws of Blizzard games or their competitors pls I don't want to argue about if Rift is good for a pages on end :D I think a lot of it is frustration because; A: It takes them fucking forever to fix things. D3 was basically a piece of ass-cake all the way up to RoS. 1 year + of doing the same content in WoW, a year of BL/Infestor etc. B: Stubborness/delusions. Stuff like refusing to reconsider sacred design cows, even in the face of massive criticism. They're better on this front now, but WoW was awful in this regard for a long time. They have gone on record stating how happy they are with the story telling in D3 and Sc2. I don't even. The products are of outstanding craftsmanship, that is undeniable. Yet there are all these small things that just irritate the shit out of you about the company. It's like eating a delicious and immaculately cooked sea bass, but you keep coming across little bones everywhere. I like that analogy a lot, and I get annoyed with shit like that too especially in WoW these days D: I haven't actually played Diablo 3 yet so I can't comment on that but SC2 yeah I wish they were a little more proactive about fixing certain things. The storyline for diablo 3 is pretty dumb. I skip everything I can at this point. The gameplay is pretty good though. The storyline for Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 was also pretty dumb. They're the gaming equivalent of a (hack and) slasher flick. The storylines for Blizzard games were never good. They were just accompanied by fucking awesome cutscenes. The older games just got away with it because the storylines were very simple back then. They more they added story, the more flaws they introduced.
I think warcraft 3 had a pretty good story.
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I'm afraid the region lock will mean the end of Jaedong.
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EPT
