EPTThe Global Experiment: 2 Years Later - Page 6
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
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Jampackedeon
United States2053 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On August 23 2014 04:11 RageCommodore wrote: ppl that think wcs am gets ruined by the influx of nonamerican players are delusional I guess the american players that are still present in the league are miles better than their counterparts from a few years ago. I remember the old times when HuK and co used to complain that practicing on NA was impossible. I guess those times are over. Great article. I'm really curious if there will ever be somebody outstanding enough to take mvp's place. The problem with WCS AM (which doesn't apply to WCS EU) is that besides Polt and viOLet, none of the Koreans practice on the american server. | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 23 2014 04:25 Boucot wrote: The problem with WCS AM (which doesn't apply to WCS EU) is that besides Polt and viOLet, none of the Koreans practice on the american server. This is true as we've seen plenty of Koreans become part of the European scene, living in Europe and practicing on the EU ladder, which is a perfectly fine situation with me. It does nothing but good. But the same thing has not happened at all in North America except for Polt and Violet. | ||
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Spinoza
667 Posts
... and whether he [Snute] had finally hit his glass ceiling, one that could not be shattered by practice. This is a mysterious statement. "Glass ceiling" is normally thought of as the systematic maltreatment of a distinct group of people. Typically women by denying them promotion, hence the invisible "glass ceiling" they hit. Thoughts? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16126 Posts
On August 22 2014 14:43 jalen wrote: The only reason that EU can hold is because the lag between KR to EU. Since the Koreans can live in EU and play from EU. The EU scene fall quickly. It helps that the Korean competition in EU is comparatively weaker than AM. Hyun, Polt, Taeja, and Bomber are consistent monsters and Heart has been looking quite powerful lately as well. By comparison who is really a consistent threat in EU? MMA, Jjajki, MC and Stardust have been the biggest competitors but I would hardly say they're the same caliber of players as the WCS AM guys, MMA might be the exception but he looks terribly weak at times and ridiculously strong other times similar to Hyun. Yoda and First are just now starting to pick up steam. It'll be interesting to see how they shake things up. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On August 23 2014 03:22 Boucot wrote: A fourth region in China/Taiwan would be good too. I think at this point I'd rather see the TeSL league give WCS points (which it does) and that new Chinese league GPL give points but keep them in WCS AM. Make it so that you have to live (or be a citizen) in your region to compete in it, and count the CN and Taiwan scene living in the WCS AM region. Then add an extra GSL season to the year so there are 3 WCS AMs and EUs and 4 GSLs and give the GSLs the same points as the WCS regions. This would compensate players who can't get out of Korea often by still giving them plenty of opportunities for WCS points. Now that there aren't any season finals there's no reason to have equal numbers of seasons and the GSL has fit far more than 3 GSLs in a year so they can definitely do it schedule wise. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8324 Posts
It is telling that Heart, the patron saint of 1-1-1... BLASPHEMY! | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On August 23 2014 04:40 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: This is true as we've seen plenty of Koreans become part of the European scene, living in Europe and practicing on the EU ladder, which is a perfectly fine situation with me. It does nothing but good. But the same thing has not happened at all in North America except for Polt and Violet. I think this is the chicken and the egg of the NA scene imploding. EU has lots of lans and weekend tournaments for Koreans living there to go to. So it makes a lot of sense for them to head over there long-term for better ping and more opportunities. NA doesn't really have anything outside WCS AM and Redbull Battlegrounds, which has most of their qualifiers online anyways (I think). | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
On August 23 2014 04:25 Boucot wrote: The problem with WCS AM (which doesn't apply to WCS EU) is that besides Polt and viOLet, none of the Koreans practice on the american server. So in other words the server is still trash to practice on? welp | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
Thanks and keep them coming! ^.^ | ||
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
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TheUnderking
Canada202 Posts
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On August 23 2014 06:56 RageCommodore wrote: So in other words the server is still trash to practice on? welp Most decent players (i.e. challenger league quality) can and do make it to the top of NA ladder if they try. The people who populate the top 50 are mostly people on the level of Drunkenboi, Koma, sWs, etc. I dont know where the top level NA pros practice but a lot of the time it seems to be EU or KR. | ||
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klipik12
United States241 Posts
No, seriously. The last 3 GSLs (4 if you count GSL GT), plus the WCS S3 '13 finals and Blizzcon were all during the Protoss-dominated era, so naturally there were a lot of Protoss and a lot of PvP. Now yes, PvP has come a long way from the days of "4 gate every game", but it's still very knife-edge, one mistake at any number of points can cost you the game in an instant. So the reason the title of GSL champion feels like it carries less weight as of late is linked to the reason no one else's been able to repeat the Mvp legend: PvP is too knife-edge to truly determine the better player (mostly)every time, so the results are inconsistent, which also makes the GSL title feel like it doesn't always truly go the the best player in the world... Just the luckiest and least nervous Protoss in Korea. | ||
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klipik12
United States241 Posts
On August 23 2014 05:29 chipmonklord17 wrote: I think at this point I'd rather see the TeSL league give WCS points (which it does) and that new Chinese league GPL give points but keep them in WCS AM. Make it so that you have to live (or be a citizen) in your region to compete in it, and count the CN and Taiwan scene living in the WCS AM region. Then add an extra GSL season to the year so there are 3 WCS AMs and EUs and 4 GSLs and give the GSLs the same points as the WCS regions. This would compensate players who can't get out of Korea often by still giving them plenty of opportunities for WCS points. Now that there aren't any season finals there's no reason to have equal numbers of seasons and the GSL has fit far more than 3 GSLs in a year so they can definitely do it schedule wise. I think adding more WCS regions and an extra season overall would be better. So there would be 5 WCS regions: NA , EU, KR (GSL), CN(GPL) and SEA(TeSL). Make them region-locked so you have to be living in, but not necessarily a citizen of, the region you play in, and you also have to play a certain number of games/wins on that region's ladder. That way the NA and SEA ladders aren't cannibalized with all the good players training only on KR, so you get a better distribution of skill and keep the local ladders healthy which, as we've seen in EU with the GEM house, benefits the general skill caliber greatly. On top of that you make all WCS partner tournaments 100% qualifier-based, so the big tournaments don't essentially decide who goes to Blizzcon on their own. That on top of the fourth season and the extra regions should make winning one season of premier less of a guaranteed trip to Blizzcon even if you drop out of the Ro32 next season and challenger the season after. *coughcoughduckdeokdearpigbabymvpclassiccoughcough* Finally, Challenger league. As the WCS format stands right now, the difference between qualifiers, challenger, and premier is only in name. If you take a step back, a WCS season is actually a 1024-or -so player massive bracket with two group stages in the middle. GSL has three group stages instead of 2. Challenger league needs to be more like the old Code A, or even like the 2013 system, where people can stay in challenger and not have to battle their way through the massive qualifier bracket because they lost 1 bo5. Its state now makes WCS a failure at one of its main goals, bringing sustainability to the scene. There is no sustainability in paying the top 48 players out of everyone in the entire region - with the bottom 16 getting $600 a season, or $1800 a year -- and leaving the rest to scrounge for a spot. Someone should be able to stay in Challenger and both become a recognized name and earn more than someone who got into Premier once, fell out instantly and never requalified. No one should be able to go from qualifiers to champion in a single season (imo). And a consistent premier league player who has one bad day and loses in the Ro32 should have more than just 1 bo5 with a potentially top-tier player between him and falling out of WCS entirely. More specifically, maybe have the structure be something like this: + Show Spoiler + Premier Ro32: -1st and 2nd advance, seeded into Ro32 next season -3rd and 4th into up and downs Challenger: -qualifiers for Ro32 (16 spots)-Ro32 group stage --1st and 2nd qualify for up&downs --3rd stays in challenger --4th out -Ro16 bracket --well duh, it's a bracket, you have a winner, he gets moar monies n'stuffs. Yey. Up&Downs: -Top 16 from C and bottom 16 from P -groups are 1 Ro16 C, 1 Ro8 C, 1 3rd P, 1 4th P -bottom 2 to C Ro32, top 2 to P Ro32 And then since you have the same number of Challenger and Premier groups, run them simultaneously with one broadcast after another. As in, 1 day of broadcasting = 1 premier group + 1 challenger group for the Ro32, and a few matches of the C Ro16 bracket every day of the P Ro16. And then have the up&downs in between seasons, ofc. | ||
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
On August 23 2014 10:34 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: Most decent players (i.e. challenger league quality) can and do make it to the top of NA ladder if they try. The people who populate the top 50 are mostly people on the level of Drunkenboi, Koma, sWs, etc. I dont know where the top level NA pros practice but a lot of the time it seems to be EU or KR. I'm still amazed how far those guys have come I took a giant ass break from Starcraft after the end of WoL and now it's like stepping out of the time machine because I only remember a lot of the current top class players as being pretty trash in their early days :D suddenly everybody is good | ||
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Holloworb
Norway345 Posts
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