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On July 11 2014 08:31 XXTN wrote:
The main reason why Blizzard created WCS was to increase SC2's popularity all around the globe and encourage more people to play/watch the game. It wasn't designed just to reward the Koreans who are already at the top (that doesn't help the game grow). What your suggesting may temporarily make the tournaments more interesting in the short run, but in the long run, it would actually hurt the game because it eliminates the incentive for amateur/mid-level players to participate.
Dude look at the standings right now. It's 100% Korean, you have to go down 20 spots to find a non-Korean on there. (Snute)
The current system isn't set up to give incentive to amateurs, it's to encourage the Koreans in Korea to travel abroad as NonY said.
If you wanted to have a system that encouraged amateurs, you'd build it like the 2012 WCS system. The current one is built as a true World Championship tournament to crown the annual best of the year. It currently isn't functioning that way.
It functioned well last year when the Season finals still existed, but right now it's functioning as simply providing more money to the players that are already the best supported in terms of travel by their sponsors and teams.
It isn't giving any more money to the mid level or low end players, it's actually JUST taking away chances for the actual best in the world to compete at the end of the year Championship tournament. How does that make any sense?
If the system worked as you're describing, there'd be a whole lot more support for the Chinese scene built into it, (there isn't) there'd be more incentive for open bracket tournaments like MLG and less for invite only tournaments like Redbull BG (they're weighted the same.)
None of it is working like you're describing. The popular players on the big teams are the ones benefiting the most by the current set up.
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8751 Posts
Blizzcon is the biggest tournament of the international scene. Korea has their own bubble of competition. I think you are kinda misunderstanding what WCS/Blizzcon is if you think one of its goals is to have strictly the highest skill 16 players. It's supposed to have the best performing (on the international scene) players. If the Korean teams wanted to participate in the international scene more, then yeah their players would probably fill all those ranks. But giving them more spots without asking them to participate is just a nonsense idea. It's turning Blizzcon into something else.
Besides, your idea of just making GSL's count for more isn't a great way to get the best lineup. It'd be better to have more competitions than 3 a year -- there are plenty of good players who just have a string of bad luck at GSL. With more tournaments, the rankings become more accurate. And perhaps more importantly, inviting a young Korean who has never traveled to another continent and hasn't been succeeding at a tournament format like Blizzcon is generally a bad idea. Some rise to the occasion and some are a wasted slot. If you invite people based on international performance, then you have players who have demonstrated they thrive at a tournament like Blizzcon, not just a player who is playing really well in the vacuum of Seoul/GSL.
The best thing you can do is get used to the duality of SC2 competition. The Korean scene isn't cracking open to the international scene anytime soon because the major teams have sponsors that work best for the Korean market, not internationally. Blizzcon is in the international sphere. Clearly you're a fan of the best players and it's weird to see them have a harder road to the biggest tournament, but that's just the way it is. Solving that issue how you want is opening a pandora's box for the international scene. WCS is a bundle of compromises and you're advocating tipping it too hard one way. Enjoy GSL, enjoy Blizzcon for what it is.
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so according to the countdown on the front page of TL, this starts at 11am EST?
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your Country52798 Posts
On July 11 2014 10:08 HelpMeGetBetter wrote:
so according to the countdown on the front page of TL, this starts at 11am EST?
It starts at 15:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On July 11 2014 09:35 NonY wrote:
Blizzcon is the biggest tournament of the international scene. Korea has their own bubble of competition. I think you are kinda misunderstanding what WCS/Blizzcon is if you think one of its goals is to have strictly the highest skill 16 players. It's supposed to have the best performing (on the international scene) players. If the Korean teams wanted to participate in the international scene more, then yeah their players would probably fill all those ranks. But giving them more spots without asking them to participate is just a nonsense idea. It's turning Blizzcon into something else.
Besides, your idea of just making GSL's count for more isn't a great way to get the best lineup. It'd be better to have more competitions than 3 a year -- there are plenty of good players who just have a string of bad luck at GSL. With more tournaments, the rankings become more accurate. And perhaps more importantly, inviting a young Korean who has never traveled to another continent and hasn't been succeeding at a tournament format like Blizzcon is generally a bad idea. Some rise to the occasion and some are a wasted slot. If you invite people based on international performance, then you have players who have demonstrated they thrive at a tournament like Blizzcon, not just a player who is playing really well in the vacuum of Seoul/GSL.
The best thing you can do is get used to the duality of SC2 competition. The Korean scene isn't cracking open to the international scene anytime soon because the major teams have sponsors that work best for the Korean market, not internationally. Blizzcon is in the international sphere. Clearly you're a fan of the best players and it's weird to see them have a harder road to the biggest tournament, but that's just the way it is. Solving that issue how you want is opening a pandora's box for the international scene. WCS is a bundle of compromises and you're advocating tipping it too hard one way. Enjoy GSL, enjoy Blizzcon for what it is.
I did some quick math and boosting the GSL WCS points by 30 percent wouldn't put a single extra GSL player into the top 16 as it currently stands, so I think "pandora's box" is overstating it a bit. I would like to see the WCS system tweaked a bit next year to include more of the world's best players. A system where roughly half the field are top players from the Korean scene would feel right to me. (nicely reflects that duality, you referred to) It would give Blizzcon more of a true World Championship feel without diluting the international nature of the tournament or the incentive for players to participate in the international scene.
A 30ish percent boost to GSL points is one way to accomplish that, but I'd prefer that Blizzard just reserve an invite for the Proleague player with best record who isn't already qualified by WCS points. That would ensure that Blizzcon would at least invite the best performing players on the Korean scene, which currently isn't the case(poor Maru), because Proleague results certainly matter to the major Korean teams.
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From what I have observed these comparatively low quality, yet high-yield tournaments are not designed to encourage Korean to travel more, it's designed for a selected bunch of Koreans who failed at WCS to farm enough points to get into Blizzcon. Yeah JD, Bomber, San, Polt, violet and some others, always those dudes.
Maybe you guys are right about the travel stuffs, but maybe organizer shoulda given more invitees to other people instead of the same bunch again and again. Btw I dont think the priority of SPL is a valid argument anymore
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Considering that Bomber and Polt are at a completely different level than everyone else here... we better get some Terran love in this one! (ala Taeja beating on foreigners at Dreamhack).
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On July 11 2014 11:06 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 09:35 NonY wrote:
Blizzcon is the biggest tournament of the international scene. Korea has their own bubble of competition. I think you are kinda misunderstanding what WCS/Blizzcon is if you think one of its goals is to have strictly the highest skill 16 players. It's supposed to have the best performing (on the international scene) players. If the Korean teams wanted to participate in the international scene more, then yeah their players would probably fill all those ranks. But giving them more spots without asking them to participate is just a nonsense idea. It's turning Blizzcon into something else.
Besides, your idea of just making GSL's count for more isn't a great way to get the best lineup. It'd be better to have more competitions than 3 a year -- there are plenty of good players who just have a string of bad luck at GSL. With more tournaments, the rankings become more accurate. And perhaps more importantly, inviting a young Korean who has never traveled to another continent and hasn't been succeeding at a tournament format like Blizzcon is generally a bad idea. Some rise to the occasion and some are a wasted slot. If you invite people based on international performance, then you have players who have demonstrated they thrive at a tournament like Blizzcon, not just a player who is playing really well in the vacuum of Seoul/GSL.
The best thing you can do is get used to the duality of SC2 competition. The Korean scene isn't cracking open to the international scene anytime soon because the major teams have sponsors that work best for the Korean market, not internationally. Blizzcon is in the international sphere. Clearly you're a fan of the best players and it's weird to see them have a harder road to the biggest tournament, but that's just the way it is. Solving that issue how you want is opening a pandora's box for the international scene. WCS is a bundle of compromises and you're advocating tipping it too hard one way. Enjoy GSL, enjoy Blizzcon for what it is. I did some quick math and boosting the GSL WCS points by 30 percent wouldn't put a single extra GSL player into the top 16 as it currently stands, so I think "pandora's box" is overstating it a bit. I would like to see the WCS system tweaked a bit next year to include more of the world's best players. A system where roughly half the field are top players from the Korean scene would feel right to me. (nicely reflects that duality, you referred to) It would give Blizzcon more of a true World Championship feel without diluting the international nature of the tournament or the incentive for players to participate in the international scene. A 30ish percent boost to GSL points is one way to accomplish that, but I'd prefer that Blizzard just reserve an invite for the Proleague player with best record who isn't already qualified by WCS points. That would ensure that Blizzcon would at least invite the best performing players on the Korean scene, which currently isn't the case(poor Maru), because Proleague results certainly matter to the major Korean teams.
Thank you! This is the kind of compromise I want.
I totally understand and appreciate what NonY has said, but I as a spectator am not satisfied knowing that the tournament that is marketed as the "World Championship" is going to be played without an adequate number of Proleague/GSL players attending. A compromise like this would put me well at ease.
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8751 Posts
On July 11 2014 11:06 sc2isnotdying wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2014 09:35 NonY wrote:
Blizzcon is the biggest tournament of the international scene. Korea has their own bubble of competition. I think you are kinda misunderstanding what WCS/Blizzcon is if you think one of its goals is to have strictly the highest skill 16 players. It's supposed to have the best performing (on the international scene) players. If the Korean teams wanted to participate in the international scene more, then yeah their players would probably fill all those ranks. But giving them more spots without asking them to participate is just a nonsense idea. It's turning Blizzcon into something else.
Besides, your idea of just making GSL's count for more isn't a great way to get the best lineup. It'd be better to have more competitions than 3 a year -- there are plenty of good players who just have a string of bad luck at GSL. With more tournaments, the rankings become more accurate. And perhaps more importantly, inviting a young Korean who has never traveled to another continent and hasn't been succeeding at a tournament format like Blizzcon is generally a bad idea. Some rise to the occasion and some are a wasted slot. If you invite people based on international performance, then you have players who have demonstrated they thrive at a tournament like Blizzcon, not just a player who is playing really well in the vacuum of Seoul/GSL.
The best thing you can do is get used to the duality of SC2 competition. The Korean scene isn't cracking open to the international scene anytime soon because the major teams have sponsors that work best for the Korean market, not internationally. Blizzcon is in the international sphere. Clearly you're a fan of the best players and it's weird to see them have a harder road to the biggest tournament, but that's just the way it is. Solving that issue how you want is opening a pandora's box for the international scene. WCS is a bundle of compromises and you're advocating tipping it too hard one way. Enjoy GSL, enjoy Blizzcon for what it is. I did some quick math and boosting the GSL WCS points by 30 percent wouldn't put a single extra GSL player into the top 16 as it currently stands, so I think "pandora's box" is overstating it a bit. I would like to see the WCS system tweaked a bit next year to include more of the world's best players. A system where roughly half the field are top players from the Korean scene would feel right to me. (nicely reflects that duality, you referred to) It would give Blizzcon more of a true World Championship feel without diluting the international nature of the tournament or the incentive for players to participate in the international scene. A 30ish percent boost to GSL points is one way to accomplish that, but I'd prefer that Blizzard just reserve an invite for the Proleague player with best record who isn't already qualified by WCS points. That would ensure that Blizzcon would at least invite the best performing players on the Korean scene, which currently isn't the case(poor Maru), because Proleague results certainly matter to the major Korean teams.
You did the math to calculate a points boost that would be ineffectual just so you could say that it wouldn't cause any problems? Great rhetoric technique I guess :o And still ignoring the fact that there are different kinds of competition.
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EPT
