• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:52
CET 14:52
KST 22:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT3Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up0ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0224LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)44Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker14
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? StarCraft 1 & 2 Added to Xbox Game Pass
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) WardiTV Team League Season 10 PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Brood War inspired Terran vs Zerg cinematic – feed TvZ is the most complete match up Gypsy to Korea Ladder maps - how we can make blizz update them? Which units you wish saw more use in the game?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread What Game makes you happy and stress free? Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Best Refurbished Laptop Under 20K in India -EAZYPC Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Search For Meaning in Vi…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2489 users

Star "HangShow" S4E4 - Balance talk with Flash - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
July 10 2014 18:44 GMT
#41
Holy Wow, Themarine really knows his stuff, I agree with everything he says!
LingBlingBling
Profile Joined December 2012
United States353 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 18:56:59
July 10 2014 18:55 GMT
#42
On July 11 2014 02:07 pmp10 wrote:
Honestly they gave even less useful advice than foreigner pros.
'Remake the game to be more like BW' is not a option at this point.



did you even watch and read? they gave perfect insight on the issues with sc2 that they been saying for a long time now, they have far more knowledge of this game then the random NA and EU pros by a large margin, and are far more experience and qualified to know what makes a good RTS Esport game. So much nicer hearing from people in the most established Esport place in the world vs biased NA pros or EU pros. Korea knows what they are talking about.

But of course NA typically wants a easy game.
Remember our motto: We ain't got it.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
July 10 2014 18:55 GMT
#43
On July 10 2014 10:03 shadymmj wrote:
wow, that's a stacked interview list...but will dkim listen?

Depend who they want to listen. Majority? Meaning we need patch soon. Minority? Flash and others in this interview that don't want patch?
+ Show Spoiler +
Personaly I couldn't care less I play so little that it doesn't matter (School)
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
ReMinD_
Profile Joined May 2013
Croatia846 Posts
July 10 2014 19:03 GMT
#44
I can't even take SC2 seriously anymore. How come in Dota we have same teams at the top for years, meanwhile every SC2 tournament yields a new 'champion'.
Parting: Well, even I can make better maps than these.
Goofinator
Profile Joined September 2013
England45 Posts
July 10 2014 19:06 GMT
#45
I don't like the idea of making the interface like Brood War. Macro is obviously a skill, but it isn't a skill that is particularly exciting to watch. They need to make it so that players can use their superior speed/mechanics in more interesting ways by making units more microable, having more abilities on units that promote micro on both sides, discouraging deathballs and encouraging multi-pronged harassment.

One other thing that I would like to add is something that kinda annoys me is people say that Protoss have "too many options". In my opinion variety is GOOD in rts games - what needs to be done is to give Terran and Zerg MORE options so they can pull off as many crazy builds as Protoss can. Look at Pigbaby vs Bomber - Pigbaby pulled off a load of different builds , making the finals quite exciting, but would it be awesome if Bomber could do the same thing.

Personally, I think the best way to increase variety is to create more upgrades that give units more abilities that rely on micro but are not essential for units to function. At the moment most upgrades are not really a choice, but something that is essential for units to function. If you gave units more upgrades that didn't help "1a" syndrome but were useful with micro then players could rush to these upgrades to make use of their micro.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9424 Posts
July 10 2014 19:07 GMT
#46
On July 11 2014 04:03 ReMinD_ wrote:
I can't even take SC2 seriously anymore. How come in Dota we have same teams at the top for years, meanwhile every SC2 tournament yields a new 'champion'.


If you cannot answer that question your self, then I would avice you to comment in a more humble way.
viperattack999
Profile Joined July 2014
Canada32 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 19:53:41
July 10 2014 19:48 GMT
#47
The pros stated what most of the community has been saying for years. The style of the game needs an update as much as the balance.

Most units have very specific roles that hard counter one set of units but are terrible vs another set. This limits play diversity and choice. There plenty of good units in the game but too many are niche and have limited roles.

By adapting a BW/Starbow approach to damage, more units are available in more situations and the skill gap goes way up. Blizzard seems to involved in developing play styles EG: Terran has a good mid game but weaker late game....

this kind of thinking limits Terrans options for no good reason. Just forces a limiting play style.

EDIT: BW was much harder to play but even as a scrub I enjoyed it much more.
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
July 10 2014 20:04 GMT
#48
wow awesome work!
good read and good points brought up
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
July 10 2014 20:19 GMT
#49
Interesting how Flash kept saying "stop crying and get good" the entire time through.
kiss kiss fall in love
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
July 10 2014 20:21 GMT
#50
I share the sentiment entirely.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
July 10 2014 20:24 GMT
#51
i think flash is too concerned about his legacy to ever speak candidly about balance. truthfully speaking, waiting for terrans to "figure it out" is not an option because SC2 does not have the longevity of bw and if this precedent continues there will be no more pro scene before long.
The Show of a Lifetime
StarscreamG1
Profile Joined February 2011
Portugal1653 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 21:20:43
July 10 2014 21:20 GMT
#52
If at matchmaking we could choose between Hots or Starbow...the problem would be solved ^_^
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7827 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 23:29:04
July 10 2014 23:26 GMT
#53
Can Blizz please listen to these people? -___-. Of course some will whine (saying this is worse than AM/EU player feedback) but at least the game will be fun to watch...

Edit: TY for translation!
VArsovskiSC
Profile Joined July 2010
Macedonia563 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 23:30:32
July 10 2014 23:28 GMT
#54
I don't like Starbow much.. It relies on Broodwar.. HotS could be a lot better if all of it's new units had a clear idea/design in the purpose/concept behind (some do, but others don't hence why we don't love it as much as we could)..

However - the real reason I wanted to write on this thread is - I was SO hoping the VOD would have English CC translations of this
Another world, another place, another universe, won the race.. :) ;) :P
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
July 10 2014 23:35 GMT
#55
On July 11 2014 08:28 VArsovskiSC wrote:
I don't like Starbow much.. It relies on Broodwar.. HotS could be a lot better if all of it's new units had a clear idea/design in the purpose/concept behind (some do, but others don't hence why we don't love it as much as we could)..

However - the real reason I wanted to write on this thread is - I was SO hoping the VOD would have English CC translations of this

HaN-
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
France1920 Posts
July 11 2014 00:45 GMT
#56
Makes me really happy seeing a big korean starcraft figure such as TheMarine articulate so well what's wrong with SC2.
And then I get sad cause I have close to no hopes that Blizzard will take that road with LoTV.

THX for the transcript. Can't wait for the subed VOD so that it hopefully get the exposure it deserves among the foreign scene.
Calendaraka Foxhan
Nerski
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1095 Posts
July 11 2014 02:01 GMT
#57
On July 11 2014 05:19 IntoTheheart wrote:
Interesting how Flash kept saying "stop crying and get good" the entire time through.


He's always been like that, I found it humorous anyone thought he'd QQ about balance when it was announced he'd be on this program in this discussion. Any really really good pro gamer always knows the key to victory is get better and not worry about what is not in your control.
Twitter: @GoForNerski /// Youtube: Youtube.com/nerskisc
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
July 11 2014 02:28 GMT
#58
Themarine is awesome
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
robertpires87
Profile Joined October 2013
Northern Ireland87 Posts
July 11 2014 02:36 GMT
#59
Flash should considered himself more than just another terran. His performance in the total biscuit's sandisk give me the best sc2 experience in my life. The best Terran to watch
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
July 11 2014 12:25 GMT
#60
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Winter Champion…
12:00
Last Chance Qualifier
WardiTV787
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko305
Rex 118
BRAT_OK 100
Vindicta 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39686
Sea 4934
Horang2 2574
Shuttle 1872
GuemChi 1191
Mini 685
ggaemo 629
actioN 234
Mong 205
Pusan 95
[ Show more ]
sorry 91
ToSsGirL 61
sSak 43
Backho 42
Aegong 35
[sc1f]eonzerg 34
scan(afreeca) 31
Noble 19
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
soO 14
Sacsri 11
Terrorterran 10
Bale 8
NotJumperer 2
Dota 2
Gorgc4800
XcaliburYe145
febbydoto12
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2272
zeus1109
x6flipin662
edward48
Other Games
B2W.Neo639
hiko326
crisheroes325
Happy129
QueenE86
Hui .85
XaKoH 68
Trikslyr24
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL30132
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota260
League of Legends
• Nemesis8541
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
11h 8m
Replay Cast
19h 8m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
22h 8m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 19h
Maru vs Bunny
Classic vs SHIN
The PondCast
1d 20h
KCM Race Survival
1d 20h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 22h
OSC
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Epic.LAN
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

C-League Week 31
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.