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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
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Gako
Canada22 Posts
Nevermind you spend the entire thing trying to scream imbalance while totally disregarding any evidence that perhaps other factors could be in play. Taeja crushing Dreamhack and 4 - 0 ing MC doesn't matter because MCs not korean enough for you? Or Taeja doesn't play enough koreans? or something? Perhaps the secret to Terran failings lies in the 4th paragraph of this bloated article: "Following that same pattern came the days of 4M parade pushes: when the armada of Korean Terrans came to conquer the MLG in the first "official" days of HotS, the same triple OC dual EB bio/Mines builds which, a couple of details aside, are still in use as of now were already there" Wait so you say the other races have spent since the beginning of HotS innovating new strategies to deal with what in many ways is a new game, and Terran hasn't? That DEFINATELY couldn't be a factor in the current stagnation of the race could it? I mean, it was in the 4th paragraph, nothing capable of turning around the fortunes of so many code S players could be so damnably simple. Or could it? | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On July 01 2014 23:41 Xiphos wrote: How is it difficult to do those things? BW players have been doing those since forever with even bigger restrictions. This doesn't compute at all. Cool elitist post. Just trying to help a plat player out, don't know what your problem is. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
We just wanted to share an update that we provided in another thread. We've been reading the feedback on Terran balance and on our thoughts regarding balance test maps. We'll be discussing these topics further on our end and hope to have additional details soon. + Show Spoiler + The cunning plan to nerff P and Z and buff T is working muhahaha | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24587 Posts
On July 02 2014 00:15 Faust852 wrote: I bet if you could hide <50 posts in this thread, almost every post woul be praised about DwF haha What? | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On July 02 2014 00:08 Gako wrote: I thought TL had a strict no bitching about balance rule, and yet here is a 10k+ word article... bitching about balance. SC2 is not balanced and will never be balanced because blizzard couldn't find its ass with its pants down, therefore the purpose for this article is??? Nevermind you spend the entire thing trying to scream imbalance while totally disregarding any evidence that perhaps other factors could be in play. Taeja crushing Dreamhack and 4 - 0 ing MC doesn't matter because MCs not korean enough for you? Or Taeja doesn't play enough koreans? or something? Perhaps the secret to Terran failings lies in the 4th paragraph of this bloated article: "Following that same pattern came the days of 4M parade pushes: when the armada of Korean Terrans came to conquer the MLG in the first "official" days of HotS, the same triple OC dual EB bio/Mines builds which, a couple of details aside, are still in use as of now were already there" Wait so you say the other races have spent since the beginning of HotS innovating new strategies to deal with what in many ways is a new game, and Terran hasn't? That DEFINATELY couldn't be a factor in the current stagnation of the race could it? I mean, it was in the 4th paragraph, nothing capable of turning around the fortunes of so many code S players could be so damnably simple. Or could it? Read the rest of the thread, bub. They posted their rules about "strict no bitching about balance" posts and clarified that there's a difference between this editorial and shitty one liners or two sentence rebuttals like you and others have posted in response. Thedwf's post has content backed by a GM player, data and graphs and general understanding of the game while your response has none. The article doesn't claim that Terran is incapable of winning sets, matches or tournaments. The article claims that Terran is struggling and is having a much harder time than Protoss or Zerg due to mistimed or unneeded nerfs, macro design and strategic flexibility in the face of ever improving defenses and meta game adjustment. If you think that the brilliant, hardworking Terrans in KeSPA teamhouses and elsewhere aren't trying new things and experimenting with timings or strategies then you are a fool. This article presents knowhow from an actual good player detailing how and why Terran strategies have been put into a corner due to simple (can't attack Protoss early due to MSC) and complicated (Muta regen makes Zerg transitions into late game T3 armies easier due to Widow Mine splash being unable to properly damage large clumps of Muta/Ling/Bling; also saves Zerg gas for Hive/Ultralisk when your Mutas aren't perishing) reasons. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
The huge majority of BS shitty bashing post comes from a big chunk of 20 posts accounts. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9405 Posts
On July 02 2014 00:08 Gako wrote: I thought TL had a strict no !@#$%^&* about balance rule, and yet here is a 10k+ word article... !@#$%^&* about balance. SC2 is not balanced and will never be balanced because blizzard couldn't find its !@#$%^&* with its pants down, therefore the purpose for this article is??? Nevermind you spend the entire thing trying to scream imbalance while totally disregarding any evidence that perhaps other factors could be in play. Taeja crushing Dreamhack and 4 - 0 ing MC doesn't matter because MCs not korean enough for you? Or Taeja doesn't play enough koreans? or something? Perhaps the secret to Terran failings lies in the 4th paragraph of this bloated article: "Following that same pattern came the days of 4M parade pushes: when the armada of Korean Terrans came to conquer the MLG in the first "official" days of HotS, the same triple OC dual EB bio/Mines builds which, a couple of details aside, are still in use as of now were already there" Wait so you say the other races have spent since the beginning of HotS innovating new strategies to deal with what in many ways is a new game, and Terran hasn't? That DEFINATELY couldn't be a factor in the current stagnation of the race could it? I mean, it was in the 4th paragraph, nothing capable of turning around the fortunes of so many code S players could be so damnably simple. Or could it? I agree zergs shouldn't have received any buff since WOL release. I mean Fruitdealer and Nestea did fine right. Your logic is absolutely magnificent. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
Before you write this off, or scoff, I believe making mech a viable strategy/unit composition, especially in TvP, will be very good for the game. A recent game between Maru and CJ_herO kind of illustrates why I think this is good. Although Maru lost, you could really tell that CJ_herO was playing a good game. I feel the 'distinction' between good Protoss players and great Protoss players is too small currently, and I feel that with mech viable, it would help to alleviate this problem somewhat. With the Terran meching, the ideal role of each race is (should be?) swapped, you can see Protoss multipronging, dropping, pulling the mech army apart in much the same way a Terran player would attempt to do in TvP. In this way, I feel that TvP would be a nicer match-up to watch as a spectator, or play as a player for this reason. Of course I don't really know how Blizzard could make it work with their current game. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 02 2014 00:30 mau5mat wrote:With the Terran meching, the ideal role of each race is (should be?) swapped, you can see Protoss multipronging, dropping, pulling the mech army apart in much the same way a Terran player would attempt to do in TvP. In this way, I feel that TvP would be a nicer match-up to watch as a spectator, or play as a player for this reason. That's how it was in SCBW and it was a very nice and interesting matchup. It's interesting how depending on which race you're playing against, the playstyle and composition is completely different. I honestly don't get why Blizzard loves MMM so much but things like these have been ruined since the beginning, starting with Immortals. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On July 01 2014 23:47 ETisME wrote: lol just because BW players did all those with bigger restrictions, doesn't mean it is not difficult in sc2. and he is right, in plat level, you can play macro based style instead of doing harass and not macroing well enough. It means people are getting lazier. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
My macro is perfectly fine in hearthstone, what are you talking about? | ||
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Disarmed
Austria721 Posts
http://i.imgur.com/uxz19.png | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On July 02 2014 00:30 mau5mat wrote: I feel a possible answer is to make mech legitimately good. Before you write this off, or scoff, I believe making mech a viable strategy/unit composition, especially in TvP, will be very good for the game. A recent game between Maru and CJ_herO kind of illustrates why I think this is good. Although Maru lost, you could really tell that CJ_herO was playing a good game. I feel the 'distinction' between good Protoss players and great Protoss players is too small currently, and I feel that with mech viable, it would help to alleviate this problem somewhat. With the Terran meching, the ideal role of each race is (should be?) swapped, you can see Protoss multipronging, dropping, pulling the mech army apart in much the same way a Terran player would attempt to do in TvP. In this way, I feel that TvP would be a nicer match-up to watch as a spectator, or play as a player for this reason. Of course I don't really know how Blizzard could make it work with their current game. Oh the distinction is HUGE between good and great protoss players. It's just not obviously visible unless you know what to look for, and it's not as blatantly obvious as "his splits are better than this other guy". Protoss players at the top level have a tremendous amount of skill that nobody credits them for, and it's sad. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
This is indeed a very intersting statistic ^^ just a proof of how BW Balance was entirely up to maps/player dominance of that era. | ||
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Disarmed
Austria721 Posts
On July 02 2014 01:17 404AlphaSquad wrote: This is indeed a very intersting statistic ^^ just a proof of how BW Balance was entirely up to maps/player dominance of that era. i don't know shit about BW but ZvP looks brutal for over 3 years...wasn there any complaints from the tosses? | ||
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
On July 02 2014 01:13 Whitewing wrote: Oh the distinction is HUGE between good and great protoss players. It's just not obviously visible unless you know what to look for, and it's not as blatantly obvious as "his splits are better than this other guy". Protoss players at the top level have a tremendous amount of skill that nobody credits them for, and it's sad. Indeed. As a previous poster in this thread mentioned, Protoss should be tweaked so the cream of the players can show off their skills more etc. For example (as mentioned) By altering chronoboost. I'm not sayiong that's the answer, just an example. Watching Maru split a group of bio to survive against banelings leaves me in awe of his skill. But is there a similar aspect to Protoss play? I don't say that to flame or insult Protoss, but would like to see mid to late game Protoss play evolve in to something other than the deathball, and so that the top protoss players can show their skill set more, and leave me in awe aswell. I want SC2 to evole in to an RTS where macro, micro and above all else raw skill and talent matter most. | ||
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Shaella
United States14827 Posts
On July 02 2014 01:42 fruity. wrote: Indeed. As a previous poster in this thread mentioned, Protoss should be tweaked so the cream of the players can show off their skills more etc. For example (as mentioned) By altering chronoboost. I'm not sayiong that's the answer, just an example. Watching Maru split a group of bio to survive against banelings leaves me in awe of his skill. But is there a similar aspect to Protoss play? I don't say that to flame or insult Protoss, but would like to see mid to late game Protoss play evolve in to something other than the deathball, and so that the top protoss players can show their skill set more, and leave me in awe aswell. I want SC2 to evole in to an RTS where macro, micro and above all else raw skill and talent matter most. I think thats a strong point. Its easy to see the skill of Maru when he does his insane splits, but its much harder to see the skill of toss and zerg players, the game just doesn't have that same visual communication of skill for either race. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On July 02 2014 01:50 Shaella wrote: I think thats a strong point. Its easy to see the skill of Maru when he does his insane splits, but its much harder to see the skill of toss and zerg players, the game just doesn't have that same visual communication of skill for either race. Maybe because there isn't a zerg or protoss equivalent to marine splitting? What is "epic" muta micro? Do we ever see "epic" zergling splits? "great" force fields is actually a joke among commentators, though admittedly sometimes P can indeed shine with a couple of well-placed force fields. "amazing" storms ? It was amazing back in BW because everyone knew how hard it was to storm a large area, this isn't the case anymore. "amazing" flanking perhaps? | ||
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