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On June 30 2014 05:31 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:27 Kevn23 wrote:
How about discuss the issues being presented in the article rather than why this is posted people. When you are intentionally offending 2/3 of your readers in a post, then ofc people wil be upset.
what specifically did you find offensive? (quote and context please)
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On June 30 2014 05:25 Faefae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 04:54 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 02:16 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 02:08 cloneThorN wrote:
Also, on the point about patch terran not existing, i want to point out that the ladder on EU and NA was one-sidedy dominated by terrans doing nothing but hellbat drops(bunny, lucifron, happy and kas) I think saying that these players are "patch terran" show your lack of objecivity. Lucifron was one of the best foreigner - and the best foreign terran- by the end of wings of liberty, and i don't think anyone would say that terran was OP at the time. Kas and Happy have both been two of the best non-korean terran as well since the begining of SC2, and are - as Lucifron btw- w3 veteran. Bunny is imo the best foreign terran now, while terran is struggling lately. ¨ Bunny is the only terran of those thats worth talking about now. Before hots, only happy and lucifron was inside the top 16 of eu gm. And that "lucifron best foreigner hueheuehue" thing is biased too. He won like 1 or two things worth a small notice, and nothing else. No high placements either. The thing that makes me call them patch terrans, is that they all went from being near the top of eu ladder, to be the supreme rulers, when hellbats where introduced. I'm sorry, but one of the reasons why terrans outside KR is doing so badly, is not because of a skill disparancy, it's because they refuse to abuse terrans lategame power, and instead hope to steamroll people with mmm, as if they where playing zerg. 1. Lucifron has retired 2. He was the best foreign T at the end of WOL for sure (3rd in WCS EU 2012, second in ritmix RSL beating MMA, lowely -who was veeeeeery good vs T-, oz and others; if you wants some "high placements") 3. I'm not biased tower Lucifron but you can't really argue that he was not one of the best foreign at least at the time. 4. You are wrong when you say they were "the supreme rulers". At most in the begining of HoTS they were arround 33% of terran in GM... 5. At the beging of HoTS every mu was statistically terran favored it is true but that doesnt make them 'patch terran' since they were succesfull BEFORE, and/or AFTER the patch, right? For instance Lucifron and Kas were NOT at their strongest in the early hots day. They were not the most succesful they have been at that time. Bunny has had more success now than during the early hots day as well.
1 lucifron retired because of lack of improvement, no results, and heavy recess in results after hellbat nerf.
2. Lowely, much as his name suggest, have been an underdog in eu for ages. Lucifron was indeed the best terran eu, but his main competitors was kas and happy, people who did not care about big tournaments, nor practise for them.
3. I'm not. I'm argumenting against the overall quality of terran players at the time in eu.
4. What i meant by that, was that those 4, and forgg now that i remember, was vastly ahead of any other player in EU ladder for the entire hellbat ordeal.
5. None of them where succuessfull before the patch, which the exception of lucifron winning a few smaller tournaments and got overhyped. Happy DID rake in alot of cash in the online 100$ tournaments tho. Patrick(bunny) Did get alot better after hots came out, but thats because he had more time to put into sc2 at that point than ever before. His story is basically identically with Snute's.
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Good effort put into the article, a lot of examples/statistics/explanations added to back up the opinions of writer's point of view.
It kinda summed up my thoughts after having months of break and coming back briefly just to realize why I stopped playing the game in the first place. Playing as terran feels like a massive uphill battle, very unforgiving and frustrating. Terran in HoTS launch was very fun to play, with exception on Hellbat-drop era.
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On June 30 2014 05:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:27 Kevn23 wrote:
How about discuss the issues being presented in the article rather than why this is posted people. What's there to discuss? Most people agree with the article
Agreeing to a problem doesn't provide a solution.
I think this SC2 needs a lot more attention than a few buffs or nerfs to be balanced and fun to play at every stage of the game.
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Thanks for this post.
While reading through the replies there are basically three camps, Terrans that are happy to read this, zergs which somewhat agree and can see some issue and seem cool about it, and protoss players that immediately call you names and attempt to call you out to the TL staff trying somehow to convince them that this is bad for TL.
I don't understand how these protoss players can continue to ignore such obvious numbers. How long has GM been totally skewed away from Terran now? How often do we see a foreign Terran win.... anything at all?
I posted a bunch on this on the Blizzard forums too, and you pointed it out here well. The Protoss race has way too many pressure/harass options, and NONE of these options hurt them in any way. They end up ahead unless they run 2 oracles in a row straight into 10 marines without looking. That's about all that can put the Terran ahead, and even then MSC allows Protoss to get to the next tier.
It's just a silly situation and I'm really hoping for something major in LOTV. Reverting that fucking silly Oracle change would be a good start and would probably get us back into it a little bit.
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On June 30 2014 05:41 y0su wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:31 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 05:27 Kevn23 wrote:
How about discuss the issues being presented in the article rather than why this is posted people. When you are intentionally offending 2/3 of your readers in a post, then ofc people wil be upset. what specifically did you find offensive? (quote and context please)
" What's more, with Hive being unlocked earlier, the Ultralisk now commonly appears on the field. Supreme winner in the contest of mindless beefy a-click units"
"soO a-moves a bunch of ultras offcreep, with Queens and out of mana Infestors lagging behind; several screens of hit & run later, 2 ultras fell for 70 supply of bio. Zerg's micro requirements in this sequence? Null: hands lifted from keyboard would have made literally no difference. "
"Lategame is the phase in which this disparity is the most blatant. Something goes dramatically wrong for Zerg? Don't panic, for the great forgiveness of an immediate buyback is there: as long as resources are available, the legion of larvae awaiting near the hatches can be mobilized at once to raise a new army of mass lings and a few ultras; and voilà, you have your second chance. "
"
Illustration with TaeJa vs Snute: reaching lategame, Snute builds the money composition of 30 mutas, a few ultras… and 66 banes, i.e. more banes than TaeJa has Marines. It goes without saying that TaeJa, despite no splitting mistake, fighting offcreep and 60 supply of mutas peacefully snoring nearby, gets absolutely annihilated. Maru suffered a similar fate when Symbol a-moved 77 Banelings to his 70 Marines. At this point, Zerg can almost alt-tab and browse Twitter if he fancies; "
Just to pick a few....
EDIT: Especially the 3rd. You can do the exact same shit with terran, even with mech, if you have enough money. It's insulting as hell, and frankly my 6 year old cousing could make a better argument while tired.
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So to the people saying it is backed with a lot of statistics, yes it is, they are just not good and i mean at all. It is very easy to make something look hugely one sided while leaving all the context aside.
GSL 2014:
16 P
3 T
13 Z
Looks pretty imbalanced right?
Ro8
5 P
1 T
2 Z
Probability of advancing for each race:
P 31%
T 33%
Z 15%
Holy sh*t that is imbalanced right? Right?
I mean Zerg has only 15% while Terra has 33%.
This is how a beginner thinks statistics work but really i can tell you these statistics (and all the ones in the article (im really sorry you put that much work in them and i really don't want to be rude)) proofe nothing and i mean absolutely nothing, not even a little bit.
If you give no context these statistics are worthless.
Really sorry for being rude but people need to stop pretending these statistics actually mean anything at all if they are just not done right.
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Thank you for your very detailed "rant", good sir, and as many others in the comments I agree on the majority of the points you brought up. I've been playing this game since October 2010 and there have been periods when I had less interest in the game (usually when I hit a wall skill-wise), but that eventually went away and I was able to improve my performance, retaining at least diamond for several seasons.
But since a few months I really struggle to play on a constant basis to maintain/improve my skill level (I know, I suck  , but it's just frustrating to constantly die to cheap "all-ins"/early game pressure or simply dying the 10-20 min death animation) as well as keeping up my excitement for the game (watching tournaments consisting mainly of Ps and Zs just isn't as entertaining for me as I don't have many players I can sympathize with, barely having any high level TvTs as it always has been my favorite MU) in general.
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love SC and couldn't imagine quitting it, but it's come to a point where it's simply much less enjoyable for me as a Terran player. I just hope this will finally open some eyes and, at least, make Blizzard aware of the fact they have to get things straight when LotV hits.
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On June 30 2014 05:45 Poisonbox wrote:
So to the people saying it is backed with a lot of statistics, yes it is, they are just not good and i mean at all. It is very easy to make something look hugely one sided while leaving all the context aside.
GSL 2014:
16 P
3 T
13 Z
Looks pretty imbalanced right?
Ro8
5 P
1 T
2 Z
Probability of advancing for each race:
P 31%
T 33%
Z 15%
Holy sh*t that is imbalanced right? Right?
I mean Zerg has only 15% while Terra has 33%.
This is how a beginner thinks statistics work but really i can tell you these statistics (and all the ones in the article (im really sorry you put that much work in them and i really don't want to be rude)) proofe nothing and i mean absolutely nothing, not even a little bit.
If you give no context these statistics are worthless.
Really sorry for being rude but people need to stop pretending these statistics actually mean anything at all if they are just not done right.
People do not understand how to read statistics at all. You'll have to make a seperate thread giving actually lessons in probability and statistics before they will get it...
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On June 30 2014 05:42 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:25 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 04:54 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 02:16 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 02:08 cloneThorN wrote:
Also, on the point about patch terran not existing, i want to point out that the ladder on EU and NA was one-sidedy dominated by terrans doing nothing but hellbat drops(bunny, lucifron, happy and kas) I think saying that these players are "patch terran" show your lack of objecivity. Lucifron was one of the best foreigner - and the best foreign terran- by the end of wings of liberty, and i don't think anyone would say that terran was OP at the time. Kas and Happy have both been two of the best non-korean terran as well since the begining of SC2, and are - as Lucifron btw- w3 veteran. Bunny is imo the best foreign terran now, while terran is struggling lately. ¨ Bunny is the only terran of those thats worth talking about now. Before hots, only happy and lucifron was inside the top 16 of eu gm. And that "lucifron best foreigner hueheuehue" thing is biased too. He won like 1 or two things worth a small notice, and nothing else. No high placements either. The thing that makes me call them patch terrans, is that they all went from being near the top of eu ladder, to be the supreme rulers, when hellbats where introduced. I'm sorry, but one of the reasons why terrans outside KR is doing so badly, is not because of a skill disparancy, it's because they refuse to abuse terrans lategame power, and instead hope to steamroll people with mmm, as if they where playing zerg. 1. Lucifron has retired 2. He was the best foreign T at the end of WOL for sure (3rd in WCS EU 2012, second in ritmix RSL beating MMA, lowely -who was veeeeeery good vs T-, oz and others; if you wants some "high placements") 3. I'm not biased tower Lucifron but you can't really argue that he was not one of the best foreign at least at the time. 4. You are wrong when you say they were "the supreme rulers". At most in the begining of HoTS they were arround 33% of terran in GM... 5. At the beging of HoTS every mu was statistically terran favored it is true but that doesnt make them 'patch terran' since they were succesfull BEFORE, and/or AFTER the patch, right? For instance Lucifron and Kas were NOT at their strongest in the early hots day. They were not the most succesful they have been at that time. Bunny has had more success now than during the early hots day as well. 1 lucifron retired because of lack of improvement, no results, and heavy recess in results after hellbat nerf. 2. Lowely, much as his name suggest, have been an underdog in eu for ages. Lucifron was indeed the best terran eu, but his main competitors was kas and happy, people who did not care about big tournaments, nor practise for them. 3. I'm not. I'm argumenting against the overall quality of terran players at the time in eu. 4. What i meant by that, was that those 4, and forgg now that i remember, was vastly ahead of any other player in EU ladder for the entire hellbat ordeal. 5. None of them where succuessfull before the patch, which the exception of lucifron winning a few smaller tournaments and got overhyped. Happy DID rake in alot of cash in the online 100$ tournaments tho. Patrick(bunny) Did get alot better after hots came out, but thats because he had more time to put into sc2 at that point than ever before. His story is basically identically with Snute's.
I don't know why Lucifron retired, but my point is that he was better and more successful before hots came out So you can't really say he was a 'patch terran'. Same goes for Kas. Bunny and Happy are more successful now - when terran are arguably struggling- so you can't say they were patch terran either!
It's funny that you talk about ForGG since his worst MU after hots came out was ... TvZ. By far, and his best was TvT... His TvZ is way better now, while TvZ winrate have shifted in zerg's favor.
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Great article, thank you for the effort and i hope Blizz will revert the mine change.
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Thanks for the effort you put into writing this article. I didn't find the specific game analyses or random quotes by famous people to be too convincing, but I was certainly swayed by the statistical evidence presented. It's hard to argue with the number of titles terrans have won, and the performance of foreigners of different races facing off against Koreans. If Maru and TaeJa weren't total ballers, things would seem even way worse.
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On June 30 2014 05:32 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:29 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 05:24 HolyArrow wrote:On June 30 2014 05:13 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 04:36 HolyArrow wrote:On June 30 2014 03:20 -Celestial- wrote:
Yet again a case of "not unreasonable points, badly presented"; seems to happen a lot on these forums of late. People have been arguing about how Terran needs a buff for months now and I don't think many can disagree now, its finally pretty convincing. Whether you get your information from watching or from playing (personally I've found playing random and race switching around has been very helpful on this) its pretty clear there needs to be some tweaks.
However this editorial is unnecessarily confrontational and is, to be blunt, insulting in many places. People get on board extremely easily with the "them and us" mentality; which means you create an unbelievably toxic environment with sides and everyone screaming at each other and yelling abuse. Just look at the state this thread has devolved into.
Frankly I find this whole thing the exact opposite of constructive. You're never going to get anywhere when your strategy for garnering support for your position boils down to shouting "you're only doing well because your race is OP, my race is way harder so I'm a better player" at everyone else. Especially when you go on to lay the same accusations on their favourite pro players. Because like it or not, that's the ultimate outcome of these discussions. There is zero attempt to be constructive or to appeal for support; its merely creating sides by using language that people will instinctively react extremely badly to.
You can quote all of the stats and numbers that you like. But ultimately how they're presented DOES matter. And the way this is presented is not going to change anyone's mind; instead its merely going to incite more hatred. Exactly this. The community is already insanely toxic as it is right now, and this is just fanning the flames. I don't have much hope for this game's future when I saw the way a majority of people reacted to Scarlett beating DRG as Protoss, or Classic beating sOo in the GSL (granted, that's ZvP, but I'm just trying to show how easily people can be incited to make balance whine and my-race-is-harder-than-yours shitposts). I've never said this before, but it does appear that the game is dying, and I wouldn't be surprised if the toxicity of the community has a good deal to do with it. Who wants to be part of a community where the majority of reactions to someone winning a tournament is balance whine instead of congratulation, where people eagerly latch onto any possible piece of evidence they can use to further their "my race is harder than yours/your race is easymode" agenda? People already know that Terran needs a buff. You'd have to be insanely willfully ignorant to think that Terran is fine right now. But articles like these will do nothing but inspire more ladder BM and shitposting whenever a non-Terran wins a tournament, or a match against a Terran. Sniff sniff... It smells of hypocracy in here.. 1. You're flaming the community in the first line of your post, generalizing people you've never met, from what you have seen on forums the vast majority of the playbase don't use. 2. People found it funny that scarlett beat drg with a blind all in from her offrace. The number 1 reason why people, terran toos and zerg alike have disliked sc2 protoss for a long time now, have been because of the infinite ammount of timings protoss has, and the low skillceling to make them effective. 3. Only a small minority legitimatly thinks they lose because of race imbalance. Most of the people who say stuff like that, are people who are not fluent in english or have a hard time making arguments, who thinks it is simply boring and unfun to play vs toss, or watch toss. People hate to watch, and play, 3 things. Protoss winning overwhelmingly with a timing attack, mass raven, and zerg turtle style. If you can remove these things, the game would be SO much better. 4. No one knows what is causing terran players to be behind the other races. The problem is, that if terran recive buffs that benefit their units directly, then that escalates very quickly into terran becomming way stronger than the other races. You make a good point that sometimes, it's just a vocal minority that makes things appear shitty. I admit that I'm just going off what I've been reading on /r/starcraft and in some recent LR threads. Still, the vocal parts of the community are the ones that matter the most when you're trying to enjoy talking about games, but feel like the environment is too hostile and/or toxic to engender actual a substantial amount of proper discussion. For example, the anti-Protoss circlejerk is so strong on /r/starcraft right now, that when I went to the comments section of the thread about the Classic vs. sOo finals, all the top comments were balance whine and shitty "Power of Protoss" posts. Any thread even remotely related to balance? Circle-jerky balance whine comments are all at the top. r/reddit is a circle jerk site, much like what TL.Net is rapidly becomming, with more and more mods becomming emotionally invested in the game. It would be so sad if mods weren't invested emotically into the game. Passion bro. Passion.
Passion is fine, but you have to remember that mods on TL.net have absolute power stop and/or make rules for threads on this site.
This means that if a mod who is a bit unsatisfied with zerg, can ban people giving good arguments against biased toss threads.
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Even though the tone of the piece is a bit whiney, it holds a lot of truth.
I wish we had a SC2 only panel-shows like State of the Game, but this time with a charismatic, knowledgeable spokes-person for each race.
On the State of the Game Zerg was fairly well represented by Idra as a reoccurring guest, Protoss had NonY, iNcontroL and Artosis. Unfortunately, Terran was always woefully underrepresented and became the "whipping boy" of the show.
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On June 30 2014 05:49 Faefae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:42 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 05:25 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 04:54 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 02:16 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 02:08 cloneThorN wrote:
Also, on the point about patch terran not existing, i want to point out that the ladder on EU and NA was one-sidedy dominated by terrans doing nothing but hellbat drops(bunny, lucifron, happy and kas) I think saying that these players are "patch terran" show your lack of objecivity. Lucifron was one of the best foreigner - and the best foreign terran- by the end of wings of liberty, and i don't think anyone would say that terran was OP at the time. Kas and Happy have both been two of the best non-korean terran as well since the begining of SC2, and are - as Lucifron btw- w3 veteran. Bunny is imo the best foreign terran now, while terran is struggling lately. ¨ Bunny is the only terran of those thats worth talking about now. Before hots, only happy and lucifron was inside the top 16 of eu gm. And that "lucifron best foreigner hueheuehue" thing is biased too. He won like 1 or two things worth a small notice, and nothing else. No high placements either. The thing that makes me call them patch terrans, is that they all went from being near the top of eu ladder, to be the supreme rulers, when hellbats where introduced. I'm sorry, but one of the reasons why terrans outside KR is doing so badly, is not because of a skill disparancy, it's because they refuse to abuse terrans lategame power, and instead hope to steamroll people with mmm, as if they where playing zerg. 1. Lucifron has retired 2. He was the best foreign T at the end of WOL for sure (3rd in WCS EU 2012, second in ritmix RSL beating MMA, lowely -who was veeeeeery good vs T-, oz and others; if you wants some "high placements") 3. I'm not biased tower Lucifron but you can't really argue that he was not one of the best foreign at least at the time. 4. You are wrong when you say they were "the supreme rulers". At most in the begining of HoTS they were arround 33% of terran in GM... 5. At the beging of HoTS every mu was statistically terran favored it is true but that doesnt make them 'patch terran' since they were succesfull BEFORE, and/or AFTER the patch, right? For instance Lucifron and Kas were NOT at their strongest in the early hots day. They were not the most succesful they have been at that time. Bunny has had more success now than during the early hots day as well. 1 lucifron retired because of lack of improvement, no results, and heavy recess in results after hellbat nerf. 2. Lowely, much as his name suggest, have been an underdog in eu for ages. Lucifron was indeed the best terran eu, but his main competitors was kas and happy, people who did not care about big tournaments, nor practise for them. 3. I'm not. I'm argumenting against the overall quality of terran players at the time in eu. 4. What i meant by that, was that those 4, and forgg now that i remember, was vastly ahead of any other player in EU ladder for the entire hellbat ordeal. 5. None of them where succuessfull before the patch, which the exception of lucifron winning a few smaller tournaments and got overhyped. Happy DID rake in alot of cash in the online 100$ tournaments tho. Patrick(bunny) Did get alot better after hots came out, but thats because he had more time to put into sc2 at that point than ever before. His story is basically identically with Snute's. I don't know why Lucifron retired, but my point is that he was better and more successful before hots came out So you can't really say he was a 'patch terran'. Same goes for Kas. Bunny and Happy are more successful now - when terran are arguably struggling- so you can't say they were patch terran either! It's funny that you talk about ForGG since his worst MU after hots came out was ... TvZ. By far, and his best was TvT... His TvZ is way better now, while TvZ winrate have shifted in zerg's favor.
His tvz winrate on ladder was 81% at the time...
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I'm really surprised teamliquid permitted this to be posted, but surprised in a pleasant way. Regardless, blizzard has confirmed (today on bnet forums) that there are no plans for any more balance patches in the near or foreseeable future, so I guess that's that.
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On June 30 2014 05:55 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:49 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 05:42 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 05:25 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 04:54 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 02:16 Faefae wrote:On June 30 2014 02:08 cloneThorN wrote:
Also, on the point about patch terran not existing, i want to point out that the ladder on EU and NA was one-sidedy dominated by terrans doing nothing but hellbat drops(bunny, lucifron, happy and kas) I think saying that these players are "patch terran" show your lack of objecivity. Lucifron was one of the best foreigner - and the best foreign terran- by the end of wings of liberty, and i don't think anyone would say that terran was OP at the time. Kas and Happy have both been two of the best non-korean terran as well since the begining of SC2, and are - as Lucifron btw- w3 veteran. Bunny is imo the best foreign terran now, while terran is struggling lately. ¨ Bunny is the only terran of those thats worth talking about now. Before hots, only happy and lucifron was inside the top 16 of eu gm. And that "lucifron best foreigner hueheuehue" thing is biased too. He won like 1 or two things worth a small notice, and nothing else. No high placements either. The thing that makes me call them patch terrans, is that they all went from being near the top of eu ladder, to be the supreme rulers, when hellbats where introduced. I'm sorry, but one of the reasons why terrans outside KR is doing so badly, is not because of a skill disparancy, it's because they refuse to abuse terrans lategame power, and instead hope to steamroll people with mmm, as if they where playing zerg. 1. Lucifron has retired 2. He was the best foreign T at the end of WOL for sure (3rd in WCS EU 2012, second in ritmix RSL beating MMA, lowely -who was veeeeeery good vs T-, oz and others; if you wants some "high placements") 3. I'm not biased tower Lucifron but you can't really argue that he was not one of the best foreign at least at the time. 4. You are wrong when you say they were "the supreme rulers". At most in the begining of HoTS they were arround 33% of terran in GM... 5. At the beging of HoTS every mu was statistically terran favored it is true but that doesnt make them 'patch terran' since they were succesfull BEFORE, and/or AFTER the patch, right? For instance Lucifron and Kas were NOT at their strongest in the early hots day. They were not the most succesful they have been at that time. Bunny has had more success now than during the early hots day as well. 1 lucifron retired because of lack of improvement, no results, and heavy recess in results after hellbat nerf. 2. Lowely, much as his name suggest, have been an underdog in eu for ages. Lucifron was indeed the best terran eu, but his main competitors was kas and happy, people who did not care about big tournaments, nor practise for them. 3. I'm not. I'm argumenting against the overall quality of terran players at the time in eu. 4. What i meant by that, was that those 4, and forgg now that i remember, was vastly ahead of any other player in EU ladder for the entire hellbat ordeal. 5. None of them where succuessfull before the patch, which the exception of lucifron winning a few smaller tournaments and got overhyped. Happy DID rake in alot of cash in the online 100$ tournaments tho. Patrick(bunny) Did get alot better after hots came out, but thats because he had more time to put into sc2 at that point than ever before. His story is basically identically with Snute's. I don't know why Lucifron retired, but my point is that he was better and more successful before hots came out So you can't really say he was a 'patch terran'. Same goes for Kas. Bunny and Happy are more successful now - when terran are arguably struggling- so you can't say they were patch terran either! It's funny that you talk about ForGG since his worst MU after hots came out was ... TvZ. By far, and his best was TvT... His TvZ is way better now, while TvZ winrate have shifted in zerg's favor. His tvz winrate on ladder was 81% at the time...
Who's TvZ winrate are you talking about ?
If it's forgg's winrate i remember him having 49% on korean ladder and near to 60% on EU ladder
He had ~67% in TvP and ~75% in TvT on EU ladder.
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On June 30 2014 05:24 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:22 cloneThorN wrote:On June 30 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:On June 30 2014 05:03 ZAiNs wrote:On June 30 2014 05:02 goofyballer wrote:
How is it that a site which usually moderates balance whining pretty heavily could allow an article to be published that spends thousands of words crying about how unfair Blizzard is to one race? Apparently it's all fine if you say "Note: This is an editorial. The opinions expressed by this article do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff (other than TheDwf)." No, it's "all fine" if you put weeks of work into your post and back your claims up by several dozen examples and considerable expertise. So if IdrA/Avilo/CombatEX put weeks worth of effort to make a post, and back their claims up with statistics and example they themself picked, then it would be ok too, to make a balance thread? Because i'm pretty sure, that each of those players could make an article similar to this, and make it so that their race looked weaker. I bet you 10$ you won't find half the content to proove a point in favor of P or Z underpowered as DwF did for T. There is so much replays/vod/other exemple it's enough to provide a point imho.
Ten dollars? Oh wow, what great inspiration to spend hours and hours of my time writing thousands of words of balance whine, to be able to purchase ten junior bacon cheeseburgers when I'm done.
You must be a professional Terran player to be this broke.
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On June 30 2014 05:57 Fission wrote:
I'm really surprised teamliquid permitted this to be posted, but surprised in a pleasant way. Regardless, blizzard has confirmed (today on bnet forums) that there are no plans for any more balance patches in the near or foreseeable future, so I guess that's that.
Gibe linkz plox
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On June 30 2014 06:00 cloneThorN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 05:57 Fission wrote:
I'm really surprised teamliquid permitted this to be posted, but surprised in a pleasant way. Regardless, blizzard has confirmed (today on bnet forums) that there are no plans for any more balance patches in the near or foreseeable future, so I guess that's that. Gibe linkz plox
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13273137416?page=2#35
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EPT
