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On June 30 2014 01:04 Picasso wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:58 Luolis wrote:On June 30 2014 00:57 ESC FeaR wrote:
to the writer i´m curious which league you are ... i dont want to flame you but its always the same that players who aren´t gm or close to it (even they shouldnt ) make for example guides or balance "whines" without telling us which league they play.Im just curious how good you are to comment those games and tell us whats wrong with the balance! HEs a grandmaster terran. Simply attaining GM on NA or EU doesn't mean anything if you're not, say, top 16 or something. Any serious pseudo-high-level player knows this. Even I'm a GM, but GM isn't the awe-inspiring proof of skill or understanding of the game as it is portrayed as. If someone like qxc who's actually good at the game wrote it I'd be more inclined to believe the things said here
Uhm, being GM does mean some sort of understanding of sc2........ But then we can debate if some people who are not GM know more about the game than GM's (casters), about the ability or inability by top players to understand the entirety of the game as related to various issues (see Naniwa, Rain).
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 30 2014 00:57 ESC FeaR wrote:
to the writer i´m curious which league you are ... i dont want to flame you but its always the same that players who aren´t gm or close to it (even they shouldnt ) make for example guides or balance "whines" without telling us which league they play.Im just curious how good you are to comment those games and tell us whats wrong with the balance!
Dwf (Downfall) was part of France's team in Nation Wars, which would at least put him in the top tier of French players. He plays in GM and has made innumerable contributions to the Strategy forum and Terran Help Me threads on TL. All-in-all, among relatively few players good enough to properly comment.
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The return of the Warhound would be glorious. All the QQ would make my day
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On June 30 2014 00:00 Leviance wrote:
I still can't believe how TL features what is against their very own general rules.
You're right. Shows how there is a real balance issue huh ?
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United States23455 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:04 Picasso wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:58 Luolis wrote:On June 30 2014 00:57 ESC FeaR wrote:
to the writer i´m curious which league you are ... i dont want to flame you but its always the same that players who aren´t gm or close to it (even they shouldnt ) make for example guides or balance "whines" without telling us which league they play.Im just curious how good you are to comment those games and tell us whats wrong with the balance! HEs a grandmaster terran. Simply attaining GM on NA or EU doesn't mean anything if you're not, say, top 16 or something. Any serious pseudo-high-level player knows this. Even I'm a GM, but GM isn't the awe-inspiring proof of skill or understanding of the game as it is portrayed as. If someone like qxc who's actually good at the game wrote it I'd be more inclined to believe the things said here
Let's keep raising the standard to an impossible level until only 20 or so odd foreigners are "allowed" to make any claims about balance. http://www.aligulac.com/players/4705-Downfall/.
He is a "good" player, and the fact is he isn't doing this based on personal anecdotes, he is doing this based on facts that he drew from tournament results, builds, maps, etc. Personal expertise matters to an extent, but sports writers write about professional sports all the time having never played the game at a high level.
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On June 30 2014 00:52 Jer99 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:47 ander wrote:On June 29 2014 20:23 ZAiNs wrote:On June 29 2014 20:20 Zealously wrote:On June 29 2014 20:18 ZAiNs wrote:On June 29 2014 20:15 BLinD-RawR wrote:On June 29 2014 20:09 AxS SouL wrote:
This belongs on Reddit, not TL :/ Why? Because of most of it is opinionated crap and it promotes balance whine culture which is going to fill other threads and ladder with more people who think they know everything. It is opinionated, but calling it crap is a stretch. Really? "soO a-moves a bunch of ultras offcreep, with Queens and out of mana Infestors lagging behind; several screens of hit & run later, 2 ultras fell for 70 supply of bio. Zerg's micro requirements in this sequence? Null: hands lifted from keyboard would have made literally no difference. The disparity in micro required for each side in this situation is clear as day. You can see Maru microing his heart out of his units; meanwhile, Zerg is perfunctorily casting some useless ITs and a Fungal (25) ; only after 10 seconds does Jaedong awake to shift focus a few Medivacs with his mutas. Jaedong's awful engagement is left unpunished: cost-wise, Terran traded 1:2, but too few remains and supplies are even after the reproduction. Unless the fight takes place near one of Zerg's bases, Terran has no way to immediately capitalize on a won battle. Is the reverse true? Alas, no: if Terran blunders and takes too bad of an engagement, the sanction is often immediate. " I don't understand. Is it not true or something? What are you trying to say? If the terran wins a fight, it's still very hard to capitalize on that. Zerg can reproduce units with their 60+ banked larva almost immediately. If terran loses the fight, it's probably GG because we just can't reproduce 120 army supply in 40 seconds
Comments like this make me wonder if the poster even plays the game, let alone watches it. Maybe you dislike TvZ, or your favourite T players loses to Z's in this fashion?
First of all, it is NOT "very hard" for Terran to capitalize on a good fight in TvZ. TvZ is a matchup built on momentum and the better the Terran player, the better they will be able to swing the momentum further into their favour every time they take a favourable trade by effectively combining drops with choice unit movement and positioning. Secondively, Terran is sooooo good at holding on vs. Zerg. In countless games I've watched and played as Zerg in both WoL and HotS Zerg has taken favourable trade(s) yet has been unable to translate into damage dealt to Terrans economy or production due to tanks/mines/PFs/bunkers/turrets.
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United States23455 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:05 myRZeth wrote:
Wish the content had some quality. It s only balance whine hidden in graphics and decent wording.
Is it balance whine if it is backed up by facts and observations about the game that he researched? The graphs aren't there to be pretty pictures you know, they are there to help prove his point, which they do to an extent.
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Biased whining, all this really is. Wouldn't read again.
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balance whine is always balance whine, doesn't matter the skill of the one who writes it. Actually, the higher the skill, the more a player is prompted to whine because the game has a bigger importance in his life.
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On June 30 2014 01:14 Hunta15 wrote:
Biased whining, all this really is. Wouldn't read again.
Yes statistics surely lie. (no)
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its funny to see the number of low post accounts shit on the OP opposed to the number of low post accounts praising the OP
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You can use statistics to whine all you want but statistics take a long time to adjust back to "balanced" statistics. The reason that Code S still has 4 Terrans is not solely based on balanced. Top 8 in Code S is seeded into next season's Code S. Now you have automatically have a bunch of protoss,zergs, and 1 terran. Bottom 24 goes back to Code A and assuming 60%+ of those reach Code S again then you still would most likely have 8 Terrans maximum with a few Code B -> Code S appearances. And because there are more zerg/toss than terrans then it would make sense that a terran would most likely not win anyway right? .... All i'm trying to say is those graphs dont mean much when patches happen not so long ago. Give it another 3 months maybe?
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On June 30 2014 00:53 Picasso wrote:
If people are going to play an asymmetric game like Starcraft, recognize that imbalances can exist at any point in time, but just suck it up and try to improve your own skills. DEFINITELY NOT SAYING that blatant imbalances are ok (as a P player, I do believe Ts currently deserve a better representation in tournaments through some minor race buff or sth), but if you actually care enough about this game to keep posting on TL and play the game here and there, suck it up and just play. This editorial promotes a whiny loser mentality and that's def something the scene did not need to reinvigorate itself. Think any Korean pro Terran starts each practice thinking 'oh what's the point, I'll lose in tourneys anyway cuz of Z OP and P OP' ?
Terran is for the 2nd consecutive times the least represented race in GSL code S RO32 (3), and its sole tournaments wins are foreign tournaments, with Taeja beating the likes of MC, Hasuobs and Jaedong [...]
It's not anything "minor" as you said, it's the biggest imbalance that ever existed in Starcraft II.
Besides, knowing and evaluating your disadvantage doesn't necessarily make you quit. You can still play while expecting the rules to change.
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Sick post man, I can but agree with most of the things you wrote.
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United States7483 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:18 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its funny to see the number of low post accounts shit on the OP opposed to the number of low post accounts praising the OP
I certainly can't shit on it, since I gave my approval to it before it was posted (despite heavily disagreeing with it).
I think a lot of it is wrong and misguided and is a poor way of thinking, and I thought the same about Lings of Liberty.
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On June 30 2014 01:14 Hunta15 wrote:
Biased whining, all this really is. Wouldn't read again.
What the hell is up with all these lazy ass comments like this? Have you even read the opening post? He thouroughly backs up his points with detailed explanations and data. How on earth can you justify it in your mind to simply reduce this to "balance whining"?
And is there something wrong about complaining about balance if there really is a significant imbalance?
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Italy12247 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:21 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 01:18 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its funny to see the number of low post accounts shit on the OP opposed to the number of low post accounts praising the OP I certainly can't shit on it, since I gave my approval to it before it was posted (despite heavily disagreeing with it). I think a lot of it is wrong and misguided and is a poor way of thinking, and I thought the same about Lings of Liberty.
Lings of Liberty was way more tongue-in-cheek though.
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United States7483 Posts
On June 30 2014 01:22 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 01:21 Whitewing wrote:On June 30 2014 01:18 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its funny to see the number of low post accounts shit on the OP opposed to the number of low post accounts praising the OP I certainly can't shit on it, since I gave my approval to it before it was posted (despite heavily disagreeing with it). I think a lot of it is wrong and misguided and is a poor way of thinking, and I thought the same about Lings of Liberty. Lings of Liberty was way more tongue-in-cheek though.
That's true, it was.
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On June 30 2014 01:01 Nezgar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:34 Picasso wrote:On June 30 2014 00:22 Jer99 wrote:
This isn't suppose to be an objective piece, though. This is an editorial from his perspective as a viewer and a player, and he's definitely got the credentials to post as a high level player. With how Terran has been doing he's pretty spot on with his points, albeit the tone is very subjective And, yes, thedwf has his freedom to express his opinions like anyone else. I just think it's terribly wrong that TL is putting this up in their front page as thedwf's whiny tone is what represents SC2 right now. There are plenty of Terrans that don't whine and there are plenty of Ps and Zs that recognize T might be at a disadvantage right now. This editorial being on the front page is more destructive than constructive I think this is what the current discussion all comes down to. It cannot be denied that thedwf put a lot of effort into his article and neither can it be denied that Terrans, especially in korea, are struggling right now. The Problem most people seem to have is the disrespect from his part for the other races, the factually not completely correct statements and the overly whiny undertone throughout the article. On top of that the article is featured on this site which grants it some form of credibility. I would be perfectly fine if this was just a regular post in the balance discussion subforum. I would be perfectly fine if the whole article would be more light-hearted and had a more tongue-in-cheek approach to the situation. I would be perfectly fine if it were completely objective and would consider the roles of the other races more. Alas, this is not the case though. It is featured, it is dead serious and very subjective. It will give fuel to even more balance whines and it might even act as a great example for other people to mask their crap with shiny statistics and flashy videos.
This is now the 5th or 6th post that totes "the factually not completely correct statements" but points out not a single one of them. You are criticizing him for "shiny statistics and flashy videos" without any statistics or even points for that matter of your own.. the only reason you guys are pissed that it's featured is because it sheds light on some issues that you would rather not have out there.. period.
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On June 30 2014 01:16 KingAlphard wrote:
balance whine is always balance whine, doesn't matter the skill of the one who writes it. Actually, the higher the skill, the more a player is prompted to whine because the game has a bigger importance in his life.
You are wrong, sir. The skill of the one who writes it does matter. I would rather read a post of a gm terran/zerg/protoss player than of a bronze to mid-master player, because they actually know what they are talking about.
To the rest People should only post here if they have to contribute instead of arguing with the OP that he is a balance whiner and thats it. Post at least arguments or something people. The OP made some effort in his thread.
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EPT
