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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On May 15 2014 17:50 Existor wrote: The changed so spore now have only +10 to bio instead of +15. Other changes remains same. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/12674900022?page=1#1 Also here is new banner ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EaTCjjM.png) Thanks! | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
"make the broodlord a psionic unit (even tho it doesnt make any sense) and make psionic units un-abductable. psionic unit list: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Psionic as you can see there arent alot of high priority abduct units (air units/collos are the priority abduct units in pvz) except for the mothership, which in my opinion shouldnt be abduct-able in the first place. swarmhosts are an issue in zvp aswell and this change would help lategame pvz out tremendously, so ur killing 2 birds with 1 stone ultimately i think the swarmhost is a bad unit design to begin with and i hope blizzard removes it from the game in Lotv, until then this could be a good short term solution" | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
Edit: I still don't like the idea in general (just make Broods immune to abduct), but 25 damage makes more sense than 30. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3561 Posts
make the broodlord a psionic unit (even tho it doesnt make any sense) and make psionic units un-abductable. Makes Ghost's Snipe own Broods more than ever. | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
this isnt even an issue atm, and that might actually be a good thing | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:16 TT1 wrote: ill just copy paste the post i made in the blizz thread, i think its a good fix to both the swamhost vs swarmhost problem and lategame swarmhost/viper/spore vs airtoss "make the broodlord a psionic unit (even tho it doesnt make any sense) and make psionic units un-abductable. psionic unit list: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Psionic as you can see there arent alot of high priority abduct units (air units/collos are the priority abduct units in pvz) except for the mothership, which in my opinion shouldnt be abduct-able in the first place. swarmhosts are an issue in zvp aswell and this change would help lategame pvz out tremendously, so ur killing 2 birds with 1 stone ultimately i think the swarmhost is a bad unit design to begin with and i hope blizzard removes it from the game in Lotv, until then this could be a good short term solution" Just make the BL immune to abduct and I'm ok with the Mothership too, by giving them passive abilities. But making Archons/HTs and the WARP PRISM!!!!! immune would be bad and makes no sense I think. Edit: Also being unable to abduct something as small as a sentry would just feel weird. | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:23 Musicus wrote: Just make the BL immune to abduct and I'm ok with the Mothership too, by giving them passive abilities. But making Archons/HTs and the WARP PRISM!!!!! immune would be bad and makes no sense I think. zerg only makes 3'ish vipers usually vs toss, they dont waste their abducts on those units (also if you try to abduct an ht you would just get fedbacked, its not a smart thing to do :D). like i said the abduct priorities are collos and air units, swarmhosts take care of the ground units | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:25 TT1 wrote: zerg only makes 3'ish vipers usually vs toss, they dont waste their abducts on those units. like i said the abduct priorities are collos and air units, swarmhosts take care of the ground units Sure, but only because that's how the meta works right now, you shouldn't limit a units possibilities that hard and I see Warp Prisms get abducted all the time. Hell I saw Stephano save his own qeens with abduct when they were too far ahead. Cool moves like that will be impossible. Edit: I see were you are coming from. But let's look at the problem, it's Broodlords being abducted into spores and apparently the Mothership too (shouldn't cloaked HTs always get of a feedback first?). So let's just fix those 2 specific problems without affecting potential cool plays we might see. I see Archons and Warp Prims get abducted quite often already, it's even needed to catch the Warp Prism if all you have is spores and corruptors and we might see more cute things in the future. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:25 TT1 wrote: zerg only makes 3'ish vipers usually vs toss, they dont waste their abducts on those units (also if you try to abduct an ht you would just get fedbacked, its not a smart thing to do :D). like i said the abduct priorities are collos and air units, swarmhosts take care of the ground units One last thing, sorry ;D. If you already think abducting a HT is a bad idea (I agree), abducting the Mothership should be a worse idea since there a cloaked HTs under it and you can basically add the cloak range to the feedback range, which should make it literally impossible to abduct a Mother ship or am I wrong? The only time I see a Mothership get abducted is when they move their army and the Mothership trails behind since it is so slow. But that's a control mistake. I would still be fine with making it immune to abduct, just saying^^. | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:50 Musicus wrote: One last thing, sorry ;D. If you already think abducting a HT is a bad idea (I agree), abducting the Mothership should be a worse idea since there a cloaked HTs under it and you can basically add the cloak range to the feedback range, which should make it literally impossible to abduct a Mother ship or am I wrong? The only time I see a Mothership get abducted is when they move their army and the Mothership trails behind since it is so slow. But that's a control mistake. I would still be fine with making it immune to abduct, just saying^^. its a control mistake but its almost impossible not to get ur mothership abducted unless you dont move your army, which isnt good gameplay | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:53 TT1 wrote: its a control mistake but its almost impossible not to get ur mothership abducted unless you dont move your army, which isnt good gameplay Well we definitely want more fast paced and mobile play. So if it helps with that, I'm all for it I guess. But I just wonder how you can kill it then without suciding 20 courruptors into it and then be left with no anti air against voidray/tempest/colossi once the mothership is gone. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
Voila, Guerilla Hosts. A (more) fun unit. Another brainfart: What if Blizzard made locusts a burrowed-only (non-cloaked!!) unit on move command, that can fire from its burrowed position? It's weird at first, but think about it.. land piranha's! If the Swarm Host user is not paying attention and just rallies the locusts, the opponent's Roaches can just walk over them and snipe a few SH before the next wave spawns and the SH user reacts. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On May 15 2014 18:16 TT1 wrote: ill just copy paste the post i made in the blizz thread, i think its a good fix to both the swamhost vs swarmhost problem and lategame swarmhost/viper/spore vs airtoss "make the broodlord a psionic unit (even tho it doesnt make any sense) and make psionic units un-abductable. psionic unit list: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Psionic as you can see there arent alot of high priority abduct units (air units/collos are the priority abduct units in pvz) except for the mothership, which in my opinion shouldnt be abduct-able in the first place. swarmhosts are an issue in zvp aswell and this change would help lategame pvz out tremendously, so ur killing 2 birds with 1 stone ultimately i think the swarmhost is a bad unit design to begin with and i hope blizzard removes it from the game in Lotv, until then this could be a good short term solution" Sounds really interesting, plus I could actually see it making sense (the broodlord shares a connection with its broodlings, I dunno). I'd really like them to try that out (maybe remove warp prism psi tag though) : it gives P a legit "counter strat" against passive mass SH play, could offer ghosts a niche role in TvZ and definitely solves the stalemates. The only thing I could be worried about is making mass tempests + cannons into mothership play viable in PvZ. The spore buff needs to be toned down a bit anyway though. At least they wouldn't have to bandaid fix the hydras with a change along those lines. | ||
Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
 . but i was hoping that they would do something about pvz too t_t | ||
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orllyfools
United States153 Posts
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
What are they trying to fix exactly? The initial topic was about SH and stalemate situations and now the train has derailed all the way to a bunch of spore (muta) and hydra changes that are pretty much only relevant in the midgame, like, c'mon...+ Show Spoiler + if someone defends you're not gonna stop them from getting sh viper spore and Infestors, pretty good vs mutas. Even if the spores kill air units a little bit slower, still doesn't change the fact that there's 40 swarm hosts and 50 spores and the defending Vipers WILL KILL AGGRESSIVE MUTAS, VIPERS AND BROOD LORDS NO MATTER WHAT with multi-pulls ... Even if you would see more hydra and muta heavy midgames, those compositions don't hold up against spore SH viper infestor. A patch like this wouldn't change stalemate games at all. If you're playing intelligently you just do what you can to stabilize and defend (this is very possible), play like Stephano from there and go 3-4base swarmhost spore viper: Nobody can stop you from doing that. Not even with a spore/muta patch like this. Even if the amount of stalemates might become 1-5% less frequent thanks to Muta and Hydra buff and more volatile midgame, the problem is still there, 3 hour games and stalemates WILL HAPPEN and they will be stupid and boring to watch. BL immune to abduct (like the  Ultralisk has Frenzied) really on the other hand wouldn't hurt anything, really.I'm also confused by the community's (forum's) reactions in the polls on the first page  do you really think a hydra and muta/spore fix will make swarm host end-game less strong?  trust me, it won't or is it not even about the swarmhosts anymore? The biggest problem with this discussion and balance change right now in my opinion is that it's turned into a confusing ramble about two completely separate topics: endgame zvz (swarmhost viper spore infestor) and midgame zvz (hydra/muta/spore). If people out there are huge fans of mutas, wouldn't it be cool if there was a huge and expensive HERO MUTA that destroys everything including Swarmhost and Spores? I think it is called Brood Lo ... oh wait  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Yet, one thing that change might do is that we are just going to go back to mass muta wars anyways. Since the problem wasn't that you cannot deal with mutas eventually, but that opening with mutas was just way better and gave you an economy and map-advantage. So both players opened mutas and from there it just devolves into massing mutas. And when they nerf the spore now under what it was (+10 instead of +15), I don't think that going 2basish hydra can ever keep up with that economy advantage of the muta play. | ||
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mongoose22
174 Posts
On May 16 2014 07:25 DinoMight wrote: I don't understand... spores are going to be just as good vs. Muta and Brood Lords. What are they talking about? How could they possibly be "just as good"? Their anti-bio damage just dropped by 20, which is a 44% decrease. It now takes 10 spore shots to kill a Brood Lord and 5 to kill a Mutalisk, up from 6 and 3, respectively. | ||
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