EPTBlizzard's thoughts on Swarm Hosts - Page 21
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Entropy137
Canada215 Posts
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GunLove
Netherlands105 Posts
I'm not a fan of these very specific buffs. In the info window of the Hydra attack it might as well come to say "x bonus damage against mutalisks". I don't like the recent buff to widow mines vs shields either. Basically I don't like any of these race- or unit-specific counters, for instance the whole Ghost unit is nothing more than an anti-High Templar weapon since the snipe nerf. The thing is, the core charm of having 3 different races is that in the different matchups you have the same units, but they handle in a different way depending on the enemy race. I feel that the way of balancing the game as described above somehow negates that charm, because of this type of artificial intervention. If the core functionality of a unit changes too radically from one matchup to another, you might as well make it so that for example, in TvZ you can't make Ghosts anymore, but instead you have some new unit that somehow counters a core unit of Zerg (for instance Swarm Host), like it does in the TvP matchup. Why not have completely different unit sets per matchup? It's a slippery scale. What I'm afraid of in the end, is that this type of balancing will make the game and meta even more stale, because it is always clear what counter you have to build, because every unit is so specialized. Also I'm afraid that more and more units will become completely obsolete in certain matchups. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26028 Posts
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PiGStarcraft
Australia987 Posts
Making massive units immune to abduct removes the point of the spell. Just make broodlords immune to abduct. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24235 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/416415-was-the-second-spore-crawler-buff-worth-it On May 07 2014 09:15 PiGStarcraft wrote: Both suggestions are a bit off the mark, broods would still be weak to abduct if spores were nerfed, and muta harassment would be too strong. Making massive units immune to abduct removes the point of the spell. Just make broodlords immune to abduct. I was thinking exactly the same thing, broods aren't weak to abduct because spores are strong against bio, but because once abducted they can get focus fired very easily and any anti air would do the trick. Spores being that stupidly strong against bio air makes it more obvious but yeah, it would solve nothing. | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
On May 07 2014 08:59 Josh_Video wrote: I hadn't even considered spawning 3 at once. This is the reason for the numbers I had proposed. Allows for a number of hosts to actually break or severely damage a turtle opponent in exchange for leaving them as empty supply for a period of time, which... seems like a seige unit to me?  And honestly, while it's technically a 'design change', it might be one that's manageable enough that they'd look at. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Just a question, are Ultralisks immune to abduction? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 07 2014 09:23 TT1 wrote: abduct vs collosus is already broken so they should implement that change Yeah, it does make the unit pretty useless if you have equal number of vipers. I would rather it just pulled them a short distance forward, rather than right into the enemy army. | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On May 07 2014 05:38 anestetic wrote: Why did none figured that it would be just awsome to make the triggering locust manual,not automatic i.e. you build 10 SH and let them stand unburrowed,then suddenly a wild zealot appears,hit burrown,and "c" for triggering the locust,unburrow reposition and something like that. There would not be a endless stream of locust,micro potential is just ridiculously high,even in a mirror matchup it would be sort of a skill to know when your opponent triggers the locust,so you can trigger yours,and counter them while locust reload on the SH,sort of? I like what this guy is onto. Let them have a cooldown, but don't have it automatically triggered. Force the zerg to manually cast locust. Just adds skill into the equation. Not a solution to the problem, but it would be a cool implementation anyways. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24235 Posts
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
On May 07 2014 09:23 TT1 wrote: abduct vs collosus is already broken so they should implement that change Learn to micro your HT for feed backs? Every single Professional player has no issue with vipers, in fact they state that type of micro is fun. Unless your trolling, the match up would be incredibly broken in the Protoss favor. | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On May 07 2014 09:33 [PkF] Wire wrote: @Shinta, that would be way too tedious. Z is already the most demanding race on tedious tasks (injects, creep spread) and I don't think that'd be a good way to solve the SH problem. Plus I don't see how it deals with the mirror problem, if you just spawn your locusts reactively to your opponent's you'll never be in trouble. Um.... It's stated right there that I don't think it's a solution to the problem. Yet your follow up is: "I don't see how it deals with the problem"? Why even post a comment -_- And as a zerg player, even though I'm nowhere near pro, I don't think it's too demanding at all. On the counter point, I've always felt like swarmhosts were just lazy... Forcing players to press 1 button every 25 seconds isn't very demanding... On May 07 2014 09:33 LingBlingBling wrote: Learn to micro your HT for feed backs? Every single Professional player has no issue with vipers, in fact they state that type of micro is fun. Unless your trolling, the match up would be incredibly broken in the Protoss favor. Yeah I pretty much agree. Blizzard would be able to nerf abduct range if Protoss wouldn't be able to 100% counter them with such a nerf. Protoss doesn't really have to suffer much vs vipers so long as the Protoss is paying attention. It does add an extra little micro process which is very necessary. If HT's weren't able to instantly destroy vipers, an easier solution to the problem would be available, but the fact of the matter is that HT's are just that strong, and so Protoss makes balancing Zerg even more tricky. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24235 Posts
How on earth could a Zerg attack into brood lords that have spores underneath if you can't abduct them ? I fear the mu could evolve from very rare locusts vs locusts to commonplace broodlings vs broodlings. | ||
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Kaeljin
Mexico25 Posts
We’re thinking along these lines: - Revert spore buff and buff hydralisk anti-air vs. biological units only. o With this, even if Broodlords are Abducted by Vipers, they would still be great against base Defenses. o The Mutalisk strength in ZvZ could possibly be countered a bit better by Hydralisks. o The effect on ZvZ would be acceptable, and the potential effects on ZvP and ZvT are minor. - Change the Viper’s Abduct ability to make massive units immune to it. o By making Brood Lords immune to Abduct, we’d solve the stalemate. Late game ZvZ would be mostly about who wins in the air. o There are downsides -- Abduct is a really cool ability, and it is something Zerg needs vs. Colossi in PvZ. o To address that, we’d consider a potential buff to Blinding Cloud so that Vipers would still be a valuable utility unit in the ZvP matchup. . these guys lack of imagination, what about creating another category of massive unit? *Massive Ground unit *Massive air unit With this category you can set which unit can be immune to abduct, for example battlecruisers, carriers and broodlords, with this you solve the issue of z v z stalemate and you would see a bit more of BCs and Carriers on late game those units are slow anyway and can be easily chased by other zerg units. | ||
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Hot_Ice
139 Posts
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
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asdfOu
United States2089 Posts
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
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